New Visa Rules For Fathers Of Thai Children

[Jayman]

I have a very close friend that works at the Thai Embassy in NYC and I have a msg out to her to find out if anything has changed on their end for issuing a visa to a father based on support of a Thai child.

I will post the results when I get them.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This is a very strange statement coming from Hull.

They always have, and I believe still are, very generous with their non-o visas, requiring mainly a cheque and sometimes the name of a supposed thai friend.

And that is exactly why they have been told to do this. So many farang fathers of illegitimate Thai babies coming through one remote outpost, legitimate or not has obviously raised flags.

Combined with the fact that there are too many loose lips on TV. Plus the history over many many years. . .

[Mario2008]

So lets say for example that the name of the father on the birth certificate was legally binding even if you are not married to the mother.

Lets say that the Thai authorities then go after a "father" for support of that child.

I've never heard of such a thing, AFAIK there isn't any legal obligation to support a child here just because you donated your sperm, and most Thais act as if there isn't a moral one either.

The woman would need to hire a lawyer and prove paternity to win a civil case, but I doubt it would be enforceable, AFAICT the "authorities" (whoever you're talking about) don't give a crap.

> I suspect they are talking about not sending a passport out to get a Thai Visa. If they actually meant what they wrote, they are over stepping their job description.

No, it is illegal for a foreigner to not have their original passport available for inspection at all times. In theory you're supposed to have it within your reach anywhere anytime. In practice a copy will usually suffice, but technically - or in reality if you're ever in a serious situatation, I reckon only an official document from the issuing government would suffice.

There is a requirement to pay child support. There is no requirement to pay alimony.

If people have a job, a Thai judge can order an employer to deduct the child support and pay it directly to the woman.

[ROMANOBA]

Ok, I have a child in Thailand and I am not married.

I can't get a visa, so I do not go to Thailand, so I stop taking care of this child,

so problem solved.

[TimTang]

Reading through some of the replies it seems to me like many people are over reacting.

If, just for example, your Thai wife dies....even under Thai law that death does not "end" your legal marriage at the time your child was born.

All it means legally is that you WERE marrried legally at the time of the child's birth...

that your marriage ended legally sometime later with the death of your wife...

and therefore due to your legal marriage at the time of the child's birth to the Thai mother you can get a dependents extension to your visa as the survivor of that legal marriage...

and, I'm willing to bet, that if you applied for a visa to visit your child in Thailand later with legal proof of that marriage and it's ending by the death of your Thai wife...Hull would grant you that visa.

All they are really saying, although in a poorly phrased way, is that if you claim to want a visa to come to Thailand to support your child by marriage to a Thai, you're going to need legal proof of that marriage,

Convince them of that fact, and they can and will give you that visa.

If you can't convince them of that fact...you're not going to get the visa.

Your talking about a type "O" based on "Marriage". This memo pertains to type "O" based on support of a Thai child. They're two different visas.

[Jayman]

I just got a response back from a close friend that issues visa at the Thai Embassy in NYC and she told me as long as the father can prove he is the father then he will get the visa.

[LivinLOS]

This is a very strange statement coming from Hull.

They always have, and I believe still are, very generous with their non-o visas, requiring mainly a cheque and sometimes the name of a supposed thai friend.

So they will happily give you a non-o for going to see a thai friend but not if it is your child without marriage??

Nope thats stopped earlier this year.. No more friends and family visas.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I have a very close friend that works at the Thai Embassy in NYC and I have a msg out to her to find out if anything has changed on their end for issuing a visa to a father based on support of a Thai child.

I will post the results when I get them.

Thai law has never accepted the birth certificate as evidence of paternity.

What a given embassy accepts is largely up to them, unless the powers on high decide to dictate specific rules.

Usually such variability works in our favor, probably best not to stir the pot, as usual with TiT once things settle down they go back to normal.

[Mario2008]

Ok, I have a child in Thailand and I am not married.

I can't get a visa, so I do not go to Thailand, so I stop taking care of this child,

so problem solved.

You can get an extension of stay based on your child, once you are the legal father.

Stop taking care of the child means you can be sued, in your home country, where the awards might be higher than in Thailand.

[LivinLOS]

I just got a response back from a close friend that issues visa at the Thai Embassy in NYC and she told me as long as the father can prove he is the father then he will get the visa.

What do they consider 'proof' ??

The birth cert ?? DNA ?? Court appointed guardianship ??

[LivinLOS]

Ok, I have a child in Thailand and I am not married.

I can't get a visa, so I do not go to Thailand, so I stop taking care of this child,

so problem solved.

You can get an extension of stay based on your child, once you are the legal father.

What visa would they put the extension onto ??

[Jayman]

I just got a response back from a close friend that issues visa at the Thai Embassy in NYC and she told me as long as the father can prove he is the father then he will get the visa.

What do they consider 'proof' ??

The birth cert ?? DNA ?? Court appointed guardianship ??

The Thai Embassy in NYC will accept the child's Thai birth cert with the fathers name on it. That is what she just told me 2 seconds ago.

I should add that this women is in charge of the department that issues all visas from the embassy in NYC.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Jayman

[motorcrazy]

I just got a response back from a close friend that issues visa at the Thai Embassy in NYC and she told me as long as the father can prove he is the father then he will get the visa.

What do they consider 'proof' ??

The birth cert ?? DNA ?? Court appointed guardianship ??

The Thai Embassy in NYC will accept the child's Thai birth cert with the fathers name on it. That is what she just told me 2 seconds ago.

And how about me, i am alrady married here 3 years,and have a child on my name ,plus an child birt certeficate.

Can i ghet that visa without schowing monney in laos to???

[Jayman]

I just got a response back from a close friend that issues visa at the Thai Embassy in NYC and she told me as long as the father can prove he is the father then he will get the visa.

What do they consider 'proof' ??

The birth cert ?? DNA ?? Court appointed guardianship ??

The Thai Embassy in NYC will accept the child's Thai birth cert with the fathers name on it. That is what she just told me 2 seconds ago.

And how about me, i am alrady married here 3 years,and have a child on my name ,plus an child birt certeficate.

Can i ghet that visa without schowing monney in laos to???

No idea what you're on about but I'm married with 2 thai children living in Thailand and all I show is a letter from the US embassy stating that I make over 40k thb a month to meet the financial requirements. I came here on a type O and never had to show any money in the US to get the type O. And I didn't get it issued from my friend in NYC but rather one of the smaller consul offices in the US.

What on earth does Laos have to do with this?

Edited February 21, 2012 by Jayman

[robuzo]

The other slightly less ideal alternative from the child's POV, but much more ideal for the Thai family, is for the father to stay back home where he belongs and just send over the money for the Thai relatives to raise the child.

How is that "much more ideal for the Thai family"? Why would you assume the Thai family don't want the father around?

you created the problem and it's up to you to jump through their hoops; IOW you don't have rights, only obligations.

Created what "problem"? Some farang/Thai couples with kids make a deliberate, mutual decision not to marry in Thailand. There are legitimate, practical reasons for not marrying here. Some of you holier-than-thou farangs really do assume too much.

In any case, from what I have seen so far (a slightly vague email from the Hull consulate) all that will be required is that paternity be legally recognized in Thailand. The father's name on the Thai birth certificate, while it may be enough for the US or other foreign embassies in the process of applying for citizenship, is not sufficient to establish legal paternity in Thailand (no, it doesn't really make sense, but that's beside the point, as is whether or not this is indicative of anti-farang bias; I think it is, but whether or not it is is beside the point). A Thai lawyer can handle that procedure very easily provided the mother consents.

[LivinLOS]

In any case, from what I have seen so far (a slightly vague email from the Hull consulate) all that will be required is that paternity be legally recognized in Thailand.

Maybe I am reading a different letter..

Where does it say, in this new information from Hull, that legally registered paternity is exempted from this restriction ??

[LivinLOS]

Thats not how its always been for the issue of visa.. Its how its always been at incountry immigration..

But thats 2 different departments.

Based on this new information, its a guess to assume they will accept a court approved father for a new visa. They make no comment that this will be acceptable only that "it is no longer possible to obtain a non immigrant visa from the Royal Thai Embassy or from any of the Royal Thai Consulates in the UK on the basis that you are the father of a child living in Thailand".

Anything else, that it IS possible if your a court approved father" is guesswork.

So you are also convinced this applies only to UK consuls?

I am not convinced of anything.

However the statement as issued is pretty clear. No non imm O based on dependent child. Not as you feel, no non imm O 'unless your the legal guardian'.

Given this is new, we have to go with the information published, not what you think it might mean. I am sure Hull will clear it up shortly.

Lets face it, so far its one consul saying this, and claiming its UK wide.. We will see in reality what happens.

[robuzo]

In any case, from what I have seen so far (a slightly vague email from the Hull consulate) all that will be required is that paternity be legally recognized in Thailand.

Maybe I am reading a different letter..

Where does it say, in this new information from Hull, that legally registered paternity is exempted from this restriction ??

That's why it seems vague to me. Obviously there are contingencies that could occur- death of Thai spouse, divorce, etc.- so as Jayman and others have pointed out, it would seem the issue is legal paternity. Don't think there is reason to worry too much.

[belg]

the question is: why is thailand ingnoring the international human rights to be with your children... all that paper work ... every year you have to go begg to an extention for another year... my wife and I are married in my home country and she got a visa for 5 years, but after 3 she applied for citizenship.... no 90 days report, no proof of income and all other papers every year .... and why ? what is there to gain for farang in this country? no unemployment, no social security, no pension... yeah, we have to right to spend all our money here and get lost, if you have none anymore ... even you have a wife and children here ...

and somebody mentioned it... what if your THAI WIFE DIES ?

they will kick you out of the country ? what happens to your children? have to take them out of their school and move back to your home country, even they don't speak a word of your native language ?

Edited February 21, 2012 by belg

[TimTang]

I just got a response back from a close friend that issues visa at the Thai Embassy in NYC and she told me as long as the father can prove he is the father then he will get the visa.

What do they consider 'proof' ??

The birth cert ?? DNA ?? Court appointed guardianship ??

It'll cost you about 100 thousand baht worth of legal fees if your child is less than 7 years old. If your child is 7 or older they can sign the legal documents for themselves which will cost a little under 30 thousand baht. Basically you're adopting your own child, according to the lawyers.

[TimTang]

I just got a response back from a close friend that issues visa at the Thai Embassy in NYC and she told me as long as the father can prove he is the father then he will get the visa.

What do they consider 'proof' ??

The birth cert ?? DNA ?? Court appointed guardianship ??

The Thai Embassy in NYC will accept the child's Thai birth cert with the fathers name on it. That is what she just told me 2 seconds ago.

And how about me, i am alrady married here 3 years,and have a child on my name ,plus an child birt certeficate.

Can i ghet that visa without schowing monney in laos to???

No! Even before this memo you have to provide proof that you have 400 thousand in a Thai bank or that you're combined family income is at least 40 thousand a month.

[Jayman]

Thats not how its always been for the issue of visa.. Its how its always been at incountry immigration..

But thats 2 different departments.

Based on this new information, its a guess to assume they will accept a court approved father for a new visa. They make no comment that this will be acceptable only that "it is no longer possible to obtain a non immigrant visa from the Royal Thai Embassy or from any of the Royal Thai Consulates in the UK on the basis that you are the father of a child living in Thailand".

Anything else, that it IS possible if your a court approved father" is guesswork.

So you are also convinced this applies only to UK consuls?

I am not convinced of anything.

However the statement as issued is pretty clear. No non imm O based on dependent child. Not as you feel, no non imm O 'unless your the legal guardian'.

Given this is new, we have to go with the information published, not what you think it might mean. I am sure Hull will clear it up shortly.

Lets face it, so far its one consul saying this, and claiming its UK wide.. We will see in reality what happens.

I appreciate that if this new info applies to you and you get your visas in the UK then you are concerned. I hope that you get clear answers from the UK consuls to alleviate your worries. I am however convinced that at least the NYC embassy is still accepting the child's birth cert as proof of the relationship for the purpose of issuing the visa.

[merijn]

Altho I may have missed it:

"Can you also please inform your readers that they must never post their passport from Thailand to any other country for any reason because there will not be any evidence in their passport to show that they exited Thailand."

I can only assume that to renew a passport will require one to leave and return with a new one??

No.

You complete the application form and send it to Hong Kong with copies of your passport pages. When you get your new passport, you visit Thai Immigration who will move whatever visa/extension you are on from old to new.

Then you cut the corner off your old one.

But theres plenty of reasons why you MUST send your passport out of the country.

Primary one being when you need to apply for a visa from a country who has no consulate in Thailand, then you must send them your passport, from within Thailand.

Also in some industries the passport is required for the processing of time consuming work permit regulations. Many in the oil industry have 2 passports for this purpose while one is routinely sent outside of Thailand.

The original letter writer clearly is poorly informed and the statement is simply not correct.

It is not allowed to send your passport out of the country while you are in Thailand. ( so far I know )

Officially the passport has to remain in your possession the whole time while you are in the country.

For this reason many people who are working in the oil industry has 2 passports as you said yourself.

In this way you can send your second passport abroad to get the other visa etc and you keep the first passport ( with the Thai stamps ) with you while you are in the country.

Edited February 21, 2012 by merijn

[motorcrazy]

THis its all old news buys and girls

[robuzo]

the question is: why is thailand ingnoring the international human rights to be with your children... all that paper work ... every year you have to go begg to an extention for another year... my wife and I are married in my home country and she got a visa for 5 years, but after 3 she applied for citizenship.... no 90 days report, no proof of income and all other papers every year .... and why ? what is there to gain for farang in this country? no unemployment, no social security, no pension... yeah, we have to right to spend all our money here and get lost, if you have none anymore ... even you have a wife and children here ...

and somebody mentioned it... what if your THAI WIFE DIES ?

they will kick you out of the country ? what happens to your children? have to take them out of their school and move back to your home country, even they don't speak a word of your native language ?

The non-Imm O for the purpose of staying with family is just short of meaningless. It just makes it easier to stay a bit longer on each visit, but like marrying a Thai confers no other rights. Thailand is still something of an outlier in this regard, compared not only to developed countries in Asia such as Japan, but also Malaysia and now even Indonesia. It's a good example of the exclusionary and xenophobic attitude of the Thai authorities, but there isn't much point in getting upset about it. After briefly taking a leadership position in SE Asia about nine years ago Thailand has been making a strong effort to get left in the dust by its regional rivals. This new length of red tape is another example of that. It will pose an inconvenience only to farangs who care about their kids but don't work or haven't "retired" here.

[scania]

Why?

because TIT

I have to say, I feel almost every day like it´s the first of April when I read the news here.

[KRS1]

Sex is the price women pay for marriage.

Marriage is the price men pay for sex.

If you got someone pregnant, its time to pay the price...Yes it is your fault for getting her pregnant. Not hers...

[softgeorge]

Just spoke to my lawyer about this as I was flying to K.L tomorrow for a visa. She had not heard about this change and she is going to make some inquiries with immigration and get back to me today.

Immigration (ministry of inetrior) has nothing to do with this. This are rules about a visa, from the Thai Foreign Ministry.

True, she is going to make inquiries and get back to me. I will post when she does.

My lawyer just got back to me.. You will no longer get a non imm visa based solely on parental circumstances regardless if it is birth certificate or court recognised and registered parent. You now have to be legaly married to a Thai. This has just blown my plans as I have already booked my flight and hotel for K.L tomorrow guess I will just have to go to the embassy and put on the tears and hope for something.

[mussen]

Just because you are on a birth certificate does not mean you are the legal father.

Please read this thread, legalize your children, please.

http://www.thaivisa....ts-as-a-father/

The cost for this process has been quoted as anywhere from 10K - 100K on this forum, maybe people who have done this process already can post the name/contact details of the lawyer they used as well as some prices? Maybe post on the thread PoorSucker linked to so we don't hijack this thread.

[Debothai]

Actually if you are a father and not married, then the child status is questionable. So I think what they are saying is that to be eligible for an O visa and if you are the father of the child, then its mother should also be you wife under thai law. Which makes sense....However, it makes it difficult to obtain a visa for those fathers who may not be ready to marry due to other commitments (such as a wife at the home country)