Cant Decide Between Automatic Or Manual Scooter

[alexpoker]

Thinking about getting a small scooter. Automatic would be best in regards to laziness, but what is the difference in fuel consumption on manual and automatic scooters? Might just go with a Honda Wave type scooter if the difference in fuel consumption is big enough.

Also is it better to get 2nd hand or new?

Anyone know of any links with information?

Thanks

[bino]

I'd also look at it from the maintenance / reliability point of view. I believe that automatic scooters require more maintenance, and not as reliable as a manual gearbox. When they break- costly to fix. If you bought a used automatic, there is no telling how badly it has been thrashed.

[poanoi]

You will no doubt get into the situation where you want to hold a giant package under your arm while driving with only your right hand, so don't get a clutch on it.

I prefer the semi-automatic ones, those with a gear shifter but not a clutch,

the fully automatic ones is awkward for an old conservative chap like myself

[alexpoker]

You will no doubt get into the situation where you want to hold a giant package under your arm while driving with only your right hand, so don't get a clutch on it.

I prefer the semi-automatic ones, those with a gear shifter but not a clutch,

the fully automatic ones is awkward for an old conservative chap like myself

Good point. The other thing about the scooters that are like the Honda Click is that space in front of you for putting a box of stuff also.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

II have both a PCX 125 and Honda wave 125. Never had trouble with either, and no the Autos are not expensive to fix. Only hange the belt after 20,000 km cost is a few hundred Bt. On my wave 125 I up graded to bigger tires 80/80 front and 90/80 rear. I am large at 99 kilos and feel more secure with them. The PCX I get 46 kpl on average over the last 20,000 km and on the wave I get just under 60 kpl in town and just last week going to Lampang I got an amazing 78 kpl even with all the hills and things for the round trip of 205 km it was 2.6 ltr and under 100 Bt for the fuel.

[jackcorbett]

I'd also look at it from the maintenance / reliability point of view. I believe that automatic scooters require more maintenance, and not as reliable as a manual gearbox. When they break- costly to fix. If you bought a used automatic, there is no telling how badly it has been thrashed.

Where are you getting your info from as to automatics being unreliable and costly to fix?

I checked our condo parking lot at 3 p.m. Out of 22 motorbikes parked there 8 of them were Yamaha Nouvos mixed between the Elegances and the old model MX's. Two MX's had over 25,000 kilometers on them and one had over 27,000. In three years my Elegance has had zero problems with the exception of two very low cost headlamp bulbs I needed to replace. My pal Ross has over 28,000 kilometers on his Elegance with no problems. Biggest problem with the automatics is the drive belt. They cost just a few hundred baht to replace. I put 3 years on my first Nouvo and never touched the belt, never put a drop of oil on a chain and never had to tighten or replace a chain. i have now put 3 years on my Elegance with the same results.

A German friend of mine has had several Honda Phantoms which is of course a 200 c.c. manual. He says they are good for about 20,000 kilometers and then the problems start and that's when it's time to look for a new bike. This is not the case with the automatics..

[karlos]

Modern CVT automatics are as reliable if not more so than their semi automatic counterparts.

Constantly smacking gears into each other enviably wears manual boxes out and causes sloppy shifts.

Automatics only consist of a belt, a few weights and some springs. The belt on my Mio125 has covered 28,000km in a year in all riding scenarios, including Bangkok’s floods... Still the belt and the rest of the transmission works perfectly.

However there is an advantage in fuel consumption should you decide to buy a manual or semi manual scooter, but how large an advantage it will be really depends on where and how you're going to be riding it?

@ jackcorbett, you beat me to it

Edited February 24, 2012 by karlos

[guzzi850m2]

I prefer an auto for heavy traffic, so much easier to ride but still fun, it all depends on where you ride.

Next auto will very likely be PCX 150cc, but we will keep my wifes Fino which has now done +13k km without and trouble expect a busted head lamp and a bad contact on the starter bottom.

On a Wave you still have the dreaded chain to lubricate & adjust now and again.

[karlos]

I'd also look at it from the maintenance / reliability point of view. I believe that automatic scooters require more maintenance, and not as reliable as a manual gearbox. When they break- costly to fix. If you bought a used automatic, there is no telling how badly it has been thrashed.

A German friend of mine has had several Honda Phantoms which is of course a 200 c.c. manual. He says they are good for about 20,000 kilometers and then the problems start and that's when it's time to look for a new bike. This is not the case with the automatics..

I know for a fact that if i had a sonic or something chain driven i would have replaced the chain and sprockets long before my Mio hit 28,000km. Plus i would have had to adjust and lube the chain every week (due to the mileage i do). I have a bigger bike too and lube it's chain every 500km (currently on 6000km) as a result the bike has consumed a 600Baht can of spray lube, that's more than all the parts i have had to buy for my Mio alone.

[thrilled]

I need to shift,and need a manual clutch also.I can't handle an automatic,or A bike with automatic clutch also.They are a dog on takeoff.When your climbing A hill it's faster to walk.

I only used an automatic one time traveling those hills on koh phangan,never again.

[jackcorbett]

I need to shift,and need a manual clutch also.I can't handle an automatic,or A bike with automatic clutch also.They are a dog on takeoff.When your climbing A hill it's faster to walk.

I only used an automatic one time traveling those hills on koh phangan,never again.

You must have some really monster hills to be able to walk up them faster than you can with an automatic. Here's my article on handling steep rutted trails in Koh Samet with an automatic.

http://www.thailandlooking.com/januarylooking10/kohsamet.htm

Edited February 24, 2012 by jackcorbett

[BlackArtemis]

I tend not to like the millisecond lag in between giving the scooter gas and when it takes off. I also prefer how I sit on a semi/full manual such as a dream.

The draw backs are no floor to sit larger packages, hardly any under seat capacity, but oh well.

I also feel that the autos are at the point that the cost of maintenance is not massively more expensive.

Just try a few and buy what you like :shrug:

[madjbs]

A scooter is a scooter. Get an auto.

Edited February 24, 2012 by madjbs

[CMX]

I hold that automatics are better in tricky traffic than the clutchless manuals, as they deliver power without the delays of double shifting or into first gear (while in motion), nor is there thinking (however experienced the rider) involved; the power is there. For a motorcycle driver, unintuitive (backward) foot movements can initially be annoying. However, even the best automatics lose 15-20% in fuel efficiency (unlike modern cars) due to the belt's drag - which actually is not a lot of baht at these capacities. (But whether I drive 113cc or 125 is a factor in power, as well as fuel efficiency.)

I join the masses in pointing out that automatics are, from the point of view of maintenance, generally problem free. Yes, at 20,000kms we change out the drive system, and it is cheap. And yes, no chains to adjust, clean, oil before changing with sprockets (also cheap).

The 'basket' question depends on model also. I don't drive a lot at night, but when I used a basket, I could block my headlamp. I've picked for myself larger models with big under-seat storage and added a top case (4 bikes).

Hondas and some Yamahas will hold their value more, but buying second hand wisely (another subject) will result in less depreciation - but is not much of a factor if you plan to keep the bike for a good while.

(sic)

Edited February 25, 2012 by CMX

[VocalNeal]

As has bee said there is a small fuel premium to pay for auto. Belts will need changing every so often but the chain will never go slack or need lubricating.

My take? If you live in a mainly rural environment and are "riding into town" mostly in top gear then go semi-auto. They (Honda) are now available with same fuel injection as autos.

If on the other hand you live in an urban environment with traffic and will be riding at slower speeds, go auto.

Sit on both and see which suits you better.

Baskets only work if the roads are very smooth, if even slightly bumpy the contents bounces out very easily. Get a couple of hooks if using it for shopping. Flat floor autos are good for cases of beer, etc

[necronx99]

Why is economy even being discussed? You do 10k a year, the premium for an auto might be what? 20 baht a week?

[moe666]

just go full auto the pcx i rented left a few big bikes setting at the light a while back but they did catch up shortly.

[wana]

I'd also look at it from the maintenance / reliability point of view. I believe that automatic scooters require more maintenance, and not as reliable as a manual gearbox. When they break- costly to fix. If you bought a used automatic, there is no telling how badly it has been thrashed.

i think the modern autos are the way to go ,how exactly do you badly thrash an auto anyway ? towing speedboats with it ??

a manual vehicle is more likelly to have faults due to improper use ,an auto doesnt leave much way to make mistakes

the elegance 135 seems to be as bulletproof as small bikes get ,i have been unable to break mine yet and ive thrown every situation at it

[jackcorbett]

Why is economy even being discussed? You do 10k a year, the premium for an auto might be what? 20 baht a week?

Over the six years I've owned first a 115 c.c. Nouvo MX, then my Yamaha Elegance, I've averaged 4000 kilometers per year and I live here 50 weeks out of a year. I still use baht taxis, especially at night (but not always) to cut down the death risk to myself. For the long hauls I now own a Honda Civic (again, because if I'm going to die I don't want it to be at the hands of a pea brained idiot who decides to do whatever he likes on the road and the police have no interest in controlling this Exocet missle.) Even figuring a 15 % decrease in fuel economy in automatics over their manual counterparts I'm figuring I'll be spending 25 to 30 cents a week for additional fuel or around 4 cents a day. You will be spending that much for the soap you will be buying that you will be using to clean the oil off that drips onto the floor in your condo building parking lot from the chain of that manual. But you have to figure this. Lost opportunity costs. That is say I spend an extra ten minutes a week oiling and adjusting my chain---that's forty extra minutes of labor I must put in per month. I can be doing something else with that time and making money at it so figuring conservatively my time is worth $20.00 an hour this means the manual transmission bike will be costing me at least $13.33 per month more in lost earnings potential. That's $160 per year or $480 per three years at which time I probably will be trading for a new bike.

[CMX]

Yes, Jack(but what do you really think)?

[jackcorbett]

Yes, Jack(but what do you really think)?

I really think? I think Necronx99's post should be etched in stone or at least in the form of a graphical image. Then the next time someone starts talking about fuel economy being a make it or break it decision factor on whether to buy this 125 c.c class bike or that one anyone of us can simply post the graphics file in here and save a lot of time. Don't get me wrong, it's stil interesting to discuss from a technological standpoint but a moot point when it comes to decision time.

[wana]

Why is economy even being discussed? You do 10k a year, the premium for an auto might be what? 20 baht a week?

For the long hauls I now own a Honda Civic (again, because if I'm going to die I don't want it to be at the hands of a pea brained idiot who decides to do whatever he likes on the road and the police have no interest in controlling this Exocet missle.

a civic is better than a bike but stil wouldnt fare too well against some of the monster like pick ups ,suvs and HGVS beig driven wrecklesly or even drunkenly on thai roads ,especialy at night

just this afternoon a racing pick up driver missed 2 guys parked on a scooter by so little i think he ruffled their jackets on the way past to beat a traffic light .....

i recomened one of these if you can get a plate for it :

[macknife]

Get an auto, you won't regret it.

Reading your posts it seems you're just looking for a runaround, so get the one you lke the look of the best. If you don't, then you'll always wonder everytime you see one.

Yes some scooters are better than others, but not hugely.

[Asianrider]

Scooter's should be just twist and go !

If you want gears buy a motorbike !!

[Familyonthemove]

A small bike is really for convenience - and auto is the most convenient. Chains need oiling and cleaning and changing gear is no fun if you don't have power to make it worth the effort.

And most autos also have space under the seat for storage and handy things like bag hooks.

Last year I would have recommended the Nouvo 135 as the best of the bunch, but now the best scooter must be the new Honda PCX 150.

And buying new makes sense, as prices are not much more than good second hand and you get a guarantee.

But whatever you buy - also get a decent helmet and gloves ... just look at every other scooter on the street and you'll see the evidence that it's been down the road on its side.

[wana]

A small bike is really for convenience - and auto is the most convenient. Chains need oiling and cleaning and changing gear is no fun if you don't have power to make it worth the effort.

And most autos also have space under the seat for storage and handy things like bag hooks.

Last year I would have recommended the Nouvo 135 as the best of the bunch, but now the best scooter must be the new Honda PCX 150.

And buying new makes sense, as prices are not much more than good second hand and you get a guarantee.

But whatever you buy - also get a decent helmet and gloves ... just look at every other scooter on the street and you'll see the evidence that it's been down the road on its side.

the pcx 150 is not available yet and still nobody knows how much it costs ?? if its near 100k i really cant see the value in it to be honest ,hopefully honda will realise the last one was too expensive and price this one at 70-80k ,it should be a step above the elegance with 150cc's but not close to double the cost

[Familyonthemove]

A small bike is really for convenience - and auto is the most convenient. Chains need oiling and cleaning and changing gear is no fun if you don't have power to make it worth the effort.

And most autos also have space under the seat for storage and handy things like bag hooks.

Last year I would have recommended the Nouvo 135 as the best of the bunch, but now the best scooter must be the new Honda PCX 150.

And buying new makes sense, as prices are not much more than good second hand and you get a guarantee.

But whatever you buy - also get a decent helmet and gloves ... just look at every other scooter on the street and you'll see the evidence that it's been down the road on its side.

the pcx 150 is not available yet and still nobody knows how much it costs ?? if its near 100k i really cant see the value in it to be honest ,hopefully honda will realise the last one was too expensive and price this one at 70-80k ,it should be a step above the elegance with 150cc's but not close to double the cost

... I didn't realise the PCX was a bit pricey. I'll revert to my Nouvo 135cc recomendation.

[karlos]

A small bike is really for convenience - and auto is the most convenient. Chains need oiling and cleaning and changing gear is no fun if you don't have power to make it worth the effort.

And most autos also have space under the seat for storage and handy things like bag hooks.

Last year I would have recommended the Nouvo 135 as the best of the bunch, but now the best scooter must be the new Honda PCX 150.

And buying new makes sense, as prices are not much more than good second hand and you get a guarantee.

But whatever you buy - also get a decent helmet and gloves ... just look at every other scooter on the street and you'll see the evidence that it's been down the road on its side.

the pcx 150 is not available yet and still nobody knows how much it costs ?? if its near 100k i really cant see the value in it to be honest ,hopefully honda will realise the last one was too expensive and price this one at 70-80k ,it should be a step above the elegance with 150cc's but not close to double the cost

... I didn't realise the PCX was a bit pricey. I'll revert to my Nouvo 135cc recomendation.

And you won't regret it one bit

[Beardog]

I have had both- Honda waves 125 & Yamaha Nuevo Elegance. Not to much difference. The Yamaha is faster off the line The Honda wave initially a bit cheaper. Way more maintenance on chains & oil mess to deal with. for the city Pattaya- Bangkok I would go with an automatic. They are bulletproof. The last year I heard automatics having problems were 2006 in Koh Chang. Probably from dweebs driving the auto's into the ground on the steep grades. Last 6 years they have made many advances in the auto's.The auto's are easy to operate. Since the wave & the Nuevo are just scooters they are about equally exciting MEH. If you want a clutch by a real motorcycle.I am trading up to a 400 super four soon as I enjoy the feel of a clutch. Choice up to you. Auto is easier & a little peppier than the semi auto.

[Fookhaht]

On a Wave you still have the dreaded chain to lubricate & adjust now and again.

Oh my goodness, takes about 5 minutes at a shop every 6 months, and usually they do it for free.