Fire On 7th Floor Of FICO Building, Asoke Area: Bangkok

[zakk9]

"A group of fire-fighters could not enter the building because the key-card system doors stopped working after electricity was cut off. It took time for them to get permission from the owner to break the glass doors and get into the building."

Call it Thailand bashing or whatever, but the fact is that bad routines, lackluster laws, ignorance and corruption take tens of thousands of lives in Thailand every year. Compassion? I think most people prefer to stay alive.

[saengsureeya]

"Over ten fire engines rushed to the scene but it was difficult for firemen to reach the seventh floor with the hoses and the fire ladder was difficult to operate at the area had many power cables."

now they might realize why those pesky farangs have such strict fire codes in their high rises.

Fico Place is owned by Fico Corporation controlled by the Srichawla family, who operate the Grand Millennium Sukhumvit Hotel, Le Fenix Sukhumvit Hotel and Fenix Tower in Sukhumvit Soi 31 among many other businesses.

I suppose that all of those buildings will be inspected over the next couple of weeks.............

[chalks]

I do have to question the 'ten' fire engines though, as all newspaper pre-posts I have seen, and news coverage shows only one single ladder fender, and 2 squirters getting ready for Song Khran...

What I didn't see was an engine capable of drenching the 12th/11th floors to contain the fire to floors.

Did the firefighters have the proper equipment as well as fire resistant asbestos coveralls, boots, jackets, gloves, helmets?

From the photos, it is apparent that a lot of glass windows were blown out from the heat on other floors.

I didn't count but there could have easily been 10 firetrucks backed up along Asoke in both directions, as well as various rescue services trucks and pickups. I passed some firetrucks that were filling up with water so I assume they were helping keep the two trucks with the tall ladders supplied.

I saw lots of firefighters wearing what looked to me to be the correct equipment. Also some not wearing helmets while on the street and a lot in normal uniforms, but they were obviously not the ones going inside. I also saw quite a few sitting on the road obviously recovering from being inside, wearing or taking off what looked like the correct equipment.

Whatever windows were not taken out by the fire, the high pressure hoses from the two trucks that could reach that high punched out all the rest from the 9th floor up. That said, they couldn't reach too far to the back of the building from the street so they couldn't get all angles.

If your 12th floor school had north-facing windows... sorry, it's gone.

[animatic]

A group of fire-fighters could not enter the building because the key-card system doors stopped working after electricity was cut off. It took time for them to get permission from the owner to break the glass doors and get into the building.

Well here is something worth commenting on.

There is a building visibly on fire and the firemen can't enter because they

can't 'get permission to break the doors' when the access cards don't work.

OK who hasn't told them;

an actual building on fire in a major city, trumps the owners right to give access,

because the fire will do more damage than the broken access ways.

And the fire can easily spread to other buildings if left on it's own devices.

What happens if the owner can NOT be found, get out marshmallows?

Edited March 4, 2012 by animatic

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was envisioning an imaginary conversation like...

Ring ring ring.... Hello?

Yes, this is the BKK Fire Department calling. Your building is on fire... We need to get inside right away, please...

Ohh... I'm sorry... Mr. Singhchai is on the phone right now... Can I take your phone number please?

Excuse me.... YOUR BUILDING IS ON FIRE... We need to speak with Mr. Singhchai right away....

Moment... Sorry.... Mr. Singhchai is on the phone right now with his insurance agent. He'll have to get back to you.

Edited March 4, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jerrysteve]

Lets hope everyone got out of this building safely. That is a pretty good size builing. I think some of the areas in Bkk have started to run cables underground. There is no doubt t the mulitiude of cables above ground presented a unknown suprise to the existing fire fighters who battled or tried to battle that blaze..and we hope the none of the firefighters were injured as well. l

There is very little impact if any, from what foreigners have t o say in this country since we are denied the right of obtaining citizenship and the right to vote at the ballot box, but come to think of it, who would want citizenship in this country anyway; I see absolutely no advantage to begin with,

And even though the western countries have their problems, I and grateful to be born in the west. Many of you from Australia, U.S.A. , United Kingdom, Western Europe etc. It is good to land on your own soil once in a while.

[AndyCherry]

I spoke to a friend who lives in a condo not far from the fire. He watched it all and reported that the reason the fire department didn't tackle it faster was that Asoke was blocked by traffic watching the fire and wouldn't get out of the way for the fire engines. Took them 30 mins to get to the building. I have seen drivers doing 60 KPH with an ambulance behind them with sirens,headlamps and horn giving all they have and they do not realise that a siren means "get out the way - i'm trying to get somewhere fast'.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As far as I can tell, there's absolutely no cultural norm here that drivers should try to pull to the side (make way) when an emergency vehicle with lights and sirens is coming up behind them.

Of course, in jammed BKK traffic, there are times when it's physically impossible for drivers to pull to the side to let emergency vehicles pass.

But at other times when the roads aren't jammed and in other places where there has been room for drivers to pull over, I've never seen anyone do it here... They just keep going on as if nothing's happening, even with the emergency vehicle blaring behind them.

I've never understood how/why that happens like that here.

Edited March 4, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jayjayjayjay]

Meanwhile, brand new fire equipment still sits in a port somewhere thanks to corruption.

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/493050-supreme-court-to-hear-bangkok-firetruck-case-in-november/

Firefighters in BKK do constant maintenance on their 2-3 decade old equipment.

And if you believe this you don't use your eyes...... only yesterday I was looking intently at 9 of these Steyr beautifully appointed trucks at a fire department somewhere along CharanSanitwong Road. Money well spent in my opinion as they are very very well equipped machines.

[vijer]

Lets hope the structure is up to the job!

5555555 That's a good one! Thai's don't have any building codes and any they do have are so poor that they have no benefit to safety.

Just had a house built and they installed ground wire in the receptacles, BUT, no earth ground. So effectively there isn't any ground in the receptacles. Heck this is a country where they think it is acceptable for 70 Million people to wipe their butts and then just put the dirty tissue in a waste basket. And later some Thai will come get the waste basket and dump it on the side of the road because the concept of waste management hasn't really been addressed in this country.

[vijer]

As far as I can tell, there's absolutely no cultural norm here that drivers should try to pull to the side (make way) when an emergency vehicle with lights and sirens is coming up behind them.

Of course, in jammed BKK traffic, there are times when it's physically impossible for drivers to pull to the side to let emergency vehicles pass.

But at other times when the roads aren't jammed and in other places where there has been room for drivers to pull over, I've never seen anyone do it here... They just keep going on as if nothing's happening, even with the emergency vehicle blaring behind them.

I've never understood how/why that happens like that here.

Well besides the fact that the government makes no use of public service announcements, there are so many vehicles on the roads with flashing lights that a driver has no idea if the vehicle is, 1) police, 2) emergency, 3) somebody that likes flashing lights, 4) etc. so they just keep moving as if the other vehicle is just another car on the road.

I just hope I never need an ambulance to take me to the hospital in a hurry.

[harrry]

http://www.thaivisa....se-in-november/

may give some insight on how much equipment is is/not available

Edited March 4, 2012 by harrry

[Briggsy]

The news on Thai tv said nobody was injured, no casualties at all, and the fire was out after 3 hours. However, it did show firemen on the 5th floor clearing out the windows, with flames above them. Brave men. Sar-tu!

I do have to question the 'ten' fire engines though, as all newspaper pre-posts I have seen, and news coverage shows only one single ladder fender, and 2 squirters getting ready for Song Khran; albeit there was also an extended ladder platform incase people needed to get out - right next to the ladder engine. As for the other seven fire-engines, I saw no evidence, unless they were aiming at the third floor, in the hope of sending the fire upwards...

What I didn't see was an engine capable of drenching the 12th/11th floors to contain the fire to floors.

All said and done, and in light of the difficulty of a very hot day, considering we are moving from Cool to Rainy Season, to put that out in a three (3) hour period, I can only say 'job well done lads', somebody knew what they were doing.

Maybe they should hand flood control to the man who controlled his brigade today!!!

-mel.

Just last month, there was a fire in my condo building. The majority of vehicles ferrying firemen to the scene were their own private vehicles, Toyota Vios, etc. Not Bangkok though.

[boggle]

For all the "go home if you dont like it" posters.

If it was a week day and the building was full of workers and it just so happens your wife/GF/BF/daughter/son/family member/friend was at work in this building and the sprinklers were not fitted/didnt work and because the power was cut off the fire fighters couldnt bash down a door to rescue him/her before they obtained pemission from the owners of the building etc, would you just suck it up and say "I dont like it I will just go home"?

Would you?

[boggle]

As far as I can tell, there's absolutely no cultural norm here that drivers should try to pull to the side (make way) when an emergency vehicle with lights and sirens is coming up behind them.

Of course, in jammed BKK traffic, there are times when it's physically impossible for drivers to pull to the side to let emergency vehicles pass.

But at other times when the roads aren't jammed and in other places where there has been room for drivers to pull over, I've never seen anyone do it here... They just keep going on as if nothing's happening, even with the emergency vehicle blaring behind them.

I've never understood how/why that happens like that here.

I have asked the question more times than I should have. Answer "thats just the way it is." Mrs boggle, when in my home country, is still very impressed when traffic makes way for all emergency vehicals.

[Roj]

The reasons there are so many above ground electricity cables are that overhead installation causes less disruption than digging up the road and they are more cost effective. Compromises that need to be taken in to account in fast developing countries with over congested cities. Even if Thailand has more relaxed building standards than more `developed` countries Bangkok doesn`t seem to have an inordinate amount of serious fires, I read some of the local papers and there is occasional reference to a residential or business fire. My former station in London covered an area of little more than 1 square mile, attended around 3500 calls a year of which one third were to adjacent stations `grounds. Of those calls on our own `ground about 25 a year would be fires requiring 4 or more fire engines. Quite often we`d arrive at a fire in a tower block to find that the dry rising mains had been vandalised and was unuseable necessitating hose to be hauled up the outside of the building. Quite often the lifts were also out of order which meant having to run up the stairwell carrying lines (ropes) and fire extinguishers and with a compressed air cylinder on our back. Turntable ladders had a maximum height of 100ft and hydraulic platfoms less so were good for up to 8 floors if they could find room to deploy them. All this in a leading city in the `developed` world. So, Bangkok`s not so bad after all and it also has well trained, professional firefighters with good equipment.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So, Bangkok`s not so bad after all and it also has well trained, professional firefighters with good equipment.

Do "well trained professional firefighters" stand around waiting to enter a burning office building, letting the fire spread to additional floors according to the news reports above, because they don't have permission from the building owner to enter / break down the locked doors???

Back in my home, I've seen fire trucks responding to brush fires push aside (ram) illegally parked cars blocking their response route. Back in my home, fire crews also have master keys or access methods for getting past locked gates/doors etc.

Separately, there are two different issues at play here...or in any comparable situation.

1. is the firefighting work / training / equipment of the fire department/fire crews.

2. is the building/fire codes standards and enforcement as related to fire/life safety.

The above case seems to raise some questions about No. 1... But there's no question that as regard to No. 2, Thailand and BKK have a horrible record/history.

[whybother]

The overhead tangle of lines everywhere are telephone lines, not electrical lines. The electrical lines usually run near the top of the power poles, and are usually clearly separated from each other.

[whybother]

So, Bangkok`s not so bad after all and it also has well trained, professional firefighters with good equipment.

Do "well trained professional firefighters" stand around waiting to enter a burning office building, letting the fire spread to additional floors according to the news reports above, because they don't have permission from the building owner to enter / break down the locked doors???

Back in my home, I've seen fire trucks responding to brush fires push aside (ram) illegally parked cars blocking their response route. Back in my home, fire crews also have master keys or access methods for getting past locked gates/doors etc.

Separately, there are two different issues at play here...or in any comparable situation.

1. is the firefighting work / training / equipment of the fire department/fire crews.

2. is the building/fire codes standards and enforcement as related to fire/life safety.

The above case seems to raise some questions about No. 1... But there's no question that as regard to No. 2, Thailand and BKK have a horrible record/history.

Being allowed to break down doors to enter has nothing to do with training. It has more to do with being sued.

[Roj]

So, Bangkok`s not so bad after all and it also has well trained, professional firefighters with good equipment.

Do "well trained professional firefighters" stand around waiting to enter a burning office building, letting the fire spread to additional floors according to the news reports above, because they don't have permission from the building owner to enter / break down the locked doors???

Back in my home, I've seen fire trucks responding to brush fires push aside (ram) illegally parked cars blocking their response route. Back in my home, fire crews also have master keys or access methods for getting past locked gates/doors etc.

Separately, there are two different issues at play here...or in any comparable situation.

1. is the firefighting work / training / equipment of the fire department/fire crews.

2. is the building/fire codes standards and enforcement as related to fire/life safety.

The above case seems to raise some questions about No. 1... But there's no question that as regard to No. 2, Thailand and BKK have a horrible record/history.

Being allowed to break down doors to enter has nothing to do with training. It has more to do with being sued.

Thanks, too right it does. Once again, Bangkok firefighters are well trained and disciplined. The last thing you need at a fire is a charge by an untrained, undisciplined rabble. This is Bangkok, not the outback. You may need these guys one day and you`ll then see they ARE professional. Edited March 4, 2012 by Roj

[whybother]

Being allowed to break down doors to enter has nothing to do with training. It has more to do with being sued.

Y

I'll assume that was a question ...

The fire fighters here don't have the same legal protections as those in other countries. I'm sure if they had the right to break down the doors, they would have done it without waiting for permission.

[sausageandmash]

Ah, Mr Kneejerk reaction has arrived. He never said Farangs don't have fires. He just said that our fire codes are better and stricter - which is a fact.

"Over ten fire engines rushed to the scene but it was difficult for firemen to reach the seventh floor with the hoses and the fire ladder was difficult to operate at the area had many power cables."

now they might realize why those pesky farangs have such strict fire codes in their high rises.

good luck all - getting out and recovering the damage.

So, with no working knowledge of how this fire started, how it is being managed, or what the final toll is...your conclusion is that "Thai Bad" - "Farang Good"

Like you , I hope no one is injured, and the damage is minor. Hopefully, the offices are vacant on Saturday.

Really, the Farang do not have fires? Really? Wish I knew that, since I lost two dear friends in one...in the USA.

[ParadiseLost]

Being allowed to break down doors to enter has nothing to do with training. It has more to do with being sued.

Y

I'll assume that was a question ...

The fire fighters here don't have the same legal protections as those in other countries. I'm sure if they had the right to break down the doors, they would have done it without waiting for permission.

Not to mention it takes a lot of effort to get a really good fire going in the first place...

[metisdead]

A post containing possibly libellous comments has been removed.

[khaowong1]

"Over ten fire engines rushed to the scene but it was difficult for firemen to reach the seventh floor with the hoses and the fire ladder was difficult to operate at the area had many power cables."

now they might realize why those pesky farangs have such strict fire codes in their high rises.

good luck all - getting out and recovering the damage.

Bangkok uses fire codes based on the USA NFPA codes. The codes are there but enforcing them is a different matter. If the building was sprinkler protected, and I believe it was, and correctly designed!!! then the fire should not have spread between floors. Someone somewhere has been negligent.

No, you think?

[Roj]

Being allowed to break down doors to enter has nothing to do with training. It has more to do with being sued.

Y

I'll assume that was a question ...

The fire fighters here don't have the same legal protections as those in other countries. I'm sure if they had the right to break down the doors, they would have done it without waiting for permission.

No, it wasn`t a question. I was starting to endorse what you said when I accidentally hit the enter button. See the edited version where I added to the letter Y. Coming from the UK I know only too well how litigation (and over the top health and safety rules back home) has taken over the work place. Ignore these rules and your employer will dispense with your services. The professional Bangkok firemen do a good job

Regards Roj

[MEL1]

I THINK the most important thing to recognise pertaining to this event is that there were no casualties. I obtain an education Visa, for obvious reasons, fron the Thai school on the 12th floor of this buliding. (And it's due for renewal in 2 weeks !)

It's OK in experience, to make comparisons regarding the Western Standards and the Thai Standards, but the reality is you moved from a First World Country to a Third World Country; what I write accepted or not.

You should not, and in fact cannot, make realistic comparisons from one to the other, considering combined technological and historical advances, put lightly.

What those men did yesterday, with their 'claimed' second rate equipment was a credit to themsleves.

I understand that complaints wish to be made, regarding standards and comparisons. However, at the end of the day, it was YOUR decision to move here and live here. You are STILL a guest here, and lucky we are all - to be. To comment upon hierarchical, and development, failures is pure neglect of your own reason for being here.

The reality is that it takes mistakes to be made for learning to be developed. Already there are announcements for improvement laws about sprinklers.

As for the comparison of 9/11; What a supercilious and pathetic comparison - this was a high rise fire only.

I hope for those that continually knock what you don't like: 1. That you either adapt to a developing culture, and it is.

or 2. If you can't adapt but want to be here, that you keep a tight lip and become passive.

3. If neither of the above suits you then it REALLY is time to go home!

-mel.

Edited March 4, 2012 by MEL1

[witsawakorn]

Isn't it amazing that so many comments already criticise Thai standards.

If you don't like it, here's an idea: go home.

Have some sense and compassion.

Quite!

However, commenting on safety regulations or the lack of same might eventually mean that same would be revised.

Telling someone to stop commenting and advising to go home is not really the way.

Have some sense and compassion?

Indeed for the victims compassion, but definitely not for those who think that having safety regulations is just hindering the making of money.

And about sense, ah........

Fair comment but it seems clear to me that the people commenting on safety regs have no idea what they are and just make assumptions without any knowledge of the subject. For example Power Plant in Thailand are built to NFPA standards ( NFPA 850 to be precise) I somehow doubt that many posters would assume that The age of the building is relevant too since it can only be built to standards in force at the time of construction. Surely we should wait to find out the cause and final damage before commenting on lack of standards or don't the facts matter?

[EyesWideOpen]

Isn't it amazing that so many comments already criticise Thai standards.

If you don't like it, here's an idea: go home.

Have some sense and compassion.

Quite!

However, commenting on safety regulations or the lack of same might eventually mean that same would be revised.

Telling someone to stop commenting and advising to go home is not really the way.

Have some sense and compassion?

Indeed for the victims compassion, but definitely not for those who think that having safety regulations is just hindering the making of money.

And about sense, ah........

Fair comment but it seems clear to me that the people commenting on safety regs have no idea what they are and just make assumptions without any knowledge of the subject. For example Power Plant in Thailand are built to NFPA standards ( NFPA 850 to be precise) I somehow doubt that many posters would assume that The age of the building is relevant too since it can only be built to standards in force at the time of construction. Surely we should wait to find out the cause and final damage before commenting on lack of standards or don't the facts matter?

If you don't it here, go home. ZZZzzzzzzzz. Wish I had one baht for every time a farang living in an upcountry country village posted that..... :-)

But back to the topic at hand. Watch all the news media carefully. There will never be a follow up story about this fire, why it happened, and whether or not there were sprinklers... It will all quietly fade away, so no one will lose face. It is the nature of news here, which someone referred to as like a brushfire. Lots of fire, smoke and action at the time of the event, and then afterwards nothing... Follow up stories with more information would be able to pinpoint blame. But that is not accepted here.

Edited March 4, 2012 by EyesWideOpen

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Once again, Bangkok firefighters are well trained and disciplined. The last thing you need at a fire is a charge by an untrained, undisciplined rabble.

Your post above makes no sense... The issue was whether the BKK firefighters dispatched to the building should have done what they did...which was stand around and wait outside... or should have forced their way into the building to more quickly and directly battle the fire.

I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to "an untrained, undisciplined rabble."

I've worked with professional firefighters in the U.S. for many years. When there's a fire and/or lives are in danger, they find a way to do their jobs, even if it means causing some incidental structural damage in order to prevent a fire from burning through a potentially occupied building.

If you're driving a friend's car, get into a serious traffic accident and are trapped inside the car, do you think the firefighters are going to stand around waiting until they can contact the car's owner for permission to get you out? Or are they going to get out the "jaws of life" and cut you out of the car, if that's what is required.

There's effectively no functioning civil justice system in Thailand anyway... But even in the West, when was the last time you heard about a Fire Department getting sued for cutting someone out of a crashed car or forcing their way into a locked building in order to fight a fire?