bendix Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Analogies like that are weak. The OP is (I believe) working on building websites which exist on servers in some other country. He uses his own time to build them without taking anything (time, labour, money, etc) from Thailand and then sells them to people in other countries. It is a specific scenario which Thaivisa as an online community has discussed over and over (and over) and was finally (I thought) put to bed by the official Thailand Immigration and Royal Thai Police forum on Immigration and Labour blah blah event a year or two ago. Tell you what, OxfordWill. Point me to the specific ruling - in writing and in the relevant legislation or an an official Thai government website that proves you are right - and I will gladly concede the point. Until then I will stick to my contention that you need a work permit to work in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordWill Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 That is an immature and naive understanding of law, regardless of the jurisdiction in question. Law relies heavily on definitions of terms and legal precedence, and additional interpretations from key figures within the system (judges, groups of judges, senior officials). If you want a rule book then play dungeons and dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Great. Another one who doesn't give a toss about the laws of the land, and dismisses discussions of visas as ethics. Firstly, anyone advising you will likely be breaching forum rules by encouraging you to break the law. Secondly, how do you feel about illegal immigrants flouting the laws in your own country? Dont agree that advising OP in this instance in encouragement to break law or breach forum rules . How can it not be breaking the law? It's very black and white. The OP wants to come here and work to build his business. No problem with that of course, providing he goes through the legal process of applying for the appropriate visas, work permits etc. And yet he blatantly says he is not interested in that and will instead be using a student visa. To work without a work permit is, ipso facto, illegal. It can't be contradicted. I would also add this. It is precisely this kind of 'the rules don't apply to me' attitude that forces the Thai authorities to continually tighten the visa rules for foreigners, making it more and more difficult for people who want to be here legally. Absolutely 2 million% agree with you. The OP is blatantly admitting to contravening the Thai Immigration laws and regulations and anyone who condones this and believes there is no harm in it are cutting they’re own throats. These sorts of people are not doing us any favours and their actions can have repercussions for all of us. Bendix is absolutely right regarding all that he has said and I feel the same way. This is a how to get around the Thai laws by deception thread and hope that the mods close it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendix Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) That is an immature and naive understanding of law, regardless of the jurisdiction in question. Law relies heavily on definitions of terms and legal precedence, and additional interpretations from key figures within the system (judges, groups of judges, senior officials). If you want a rule book then play dungeons and dragons. I work for one of the largest law firms in the world, one with offices in numerous markets. Including Bangkok. You don't need to tell me about how law evolves. I find it ironic that when I ask for a definitive ruling in writing or on a Thai immigration website, you revert to a vague cop out along the lines of 'laws being subject to definition and interpretation', yet you yourself seem very willing to put complete faith in an oral statement by an immigration official at some seminar of somekind, and one that has never been backed up, confirmed or clarified with a press release, amendment to any law or anything else vaguely looking like it has the official stamp of approval. If you seriously think such a vague generalised comment from some unnamed official would be enough to satisfy - for example - an immigration tribunal or would get the OP out of immigration detention should he be caught, then . . . well . . . there's no point carrying on the sentence. I know which horse I'm backing in this race. Edited March 7, 2012 by bendix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendix Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Bendix is absolutely right regarding all that he has said and I feel the same way. bendix is always right. That you feel the same way demonstrates great judgement, young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'm not going to offer any opinion on how to interpret the Thai laws and regs on the OP's situation. But it's certainly true that laws always lag behind technological developments and innovation, especially in Thailand. So this is just my opinion: if someone is contributing to an online business from Thailand where his/her proceeds are principally earned abroad, the product is produced and principally sold abroad, it's hard to fathom how or why a Thai work permit OUGHT to be required in such a situation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordWill Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) It's surprising that someone with your alleged understanding of law in practice would feel personally threatened or that your way of life may be threatened in a legal or social sense ('makes it harder for us law abiding immigrants') by someone coming to Thailand to be a student who makes a living by taking nothing from Thailand or involving Thailand in any way other than his person being physically located in the country. Perhaps you could explain how in practical terms his actions affect you or us? You would need to include such things as how his behaviour is detected, how it affects anyone or anything in Thailand etc. Ending with perhaps how he would be "policed" or as you may prefer "brought to justice". Whether you realise it or not or wish to accept it or not you have a more fundamental objection to his situation which it would not be unfair to say I hinted at previously and smacks of principles. It's fine (although easy to reduce to absurdity) to have an objection on these grounds but at least call it what it is and don't dress it up in some sort of social harm argument. p.s. the officials and the official forum which was televised are nameless only to you and I who cannot remember or perhaps in your case never knew of the event. That the people, and the event, do and did exist, is not up for debate. Edited March 7, 2012 by OxfordWill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstribling Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You can find many affordable places for less than 5k. It won't be a problem. Don't worry about all this nanny-talk on here. This is a great site to get specific info. Not a place to visit often. Unless you like hanging out in an old-folks home. C'mon and enjoy the good life while you can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You can get a surprisingly decent flat with aircon and wifi out in Chiang Mai for 3-4k but you will need transport(extra expense). I recently rented an apt. in Pattaya, free wifi, aircon, for 5k/month. But I didn't need a motorbike because stores and restaurants were everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Its been stated time and again that if your money isnt being made from Thailand and is only coming inwards to be spent here, that it isn't black and white and its most definitely grey. There was even an official who stated it at the immigration forum about a year or two ago and his official comments were widely documented on this site and others. not grey at all...Phuket immigration came out with an article over a year ago which stated that people lving in Thailand and operating internet business' required a WP Joke? Good luck with policing that one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The OP isn't asking for advice on how to live in Thailand illegally, he isn't asking for advice on how to work illegally. He's asking where to find a cheap place to live. Good luck to him, go and enjoy doing what you want. If you do anything illegal and get caught then suffer the consequences. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bino Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) To the OP- I would talk to the Thai language school that will be sponsoring your ED visa and you will be attending to learn the language. Attendance is mandatory, and I doubt that there are many language schools for foreigners in the up-country villages. The staff at the language school should be able to provide recommendations of places to stay that fit in your budget. Or - are you intending to exploit the ED Visa laws and regulations also? Edited March 7, 2012 by bino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRescue Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Mae Sai Plenty of cheap digs there for 3000. Near to border to visa run every 2 weeks. Not much to do, nothing to spend money on. Few destitute farangs there getting pissed on samsung every night at local places. Could live on 10k a month easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneyboy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have just the place for you,amazing house share only 1500 baht a month see below link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I don't have a WP I did have, but things went Pete Tong for me and I had to 're-invent' myself. With a wife and child returning home was not an option. The WP will come later, it just isn't feasible for me yet. My options are to carry on as I am in the knowledge the WP will come in time as things develop or return home after 10+yrs, with no promises of landing a job, and leave my wife and daughter to fend for themselves. While I know I will have to accept what the authorities say, should they want a word with me, anybody else can shove their judgement where the sun don't shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRescue Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Mae Sai Plenty of cheap digs there for 3000. Near to border to visa run every 2 weeks. Not much to do, nothing to spend money on. Few destitute farangs there getting pissed on samsung every night at local places. Could live on 10k a month easy Also you could get yourself a cheap burmese girlfriend.. about 2000/month. Should clean your house for you too at that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRescue Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Mae Sai Plenty of cheap digs there for 3000. Near to border to visa run every 2 weeks. Not much to do, nothing to spend money on. Few destitute farangs there getting pissed on samsung every night at local places. Could live on 10k a month easy Also you could get yourself a cheap burmese girlfriend.. about 2000/month. Should clean your house for you too at that price. I mean clean your hovel, and wash your clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRescue Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 That is an immature and naive understanding of law, regardless of the jurisdiction in question. Law relies heavily on definitions of terms and legal precedence, and additional interpretations from key figures within the system (judges, groups of judges, senior officials). If you want a rule book then play dungeons and dragons. Get a life.. do gooder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendix Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's surprising that someone with your alleged understanding of law in practice would feel personally threatened or that your way of life may be threatened in a legal or social sense ('makes it harder for us law abiding immigrants') by someone coming to Thailand to be a student who makes a living by taking nothing from Thailand or involving Thailand in any way other than his person being physically located in the country.Perhaps you could explain how in practical terms his actions affect you or us? You would need to include such things as how his behaviour is detected, how it affects anyone or anything in Thailand etc. Ending with perhaps how he would be "policed" or as you may prefer "brought to justice". Whether you realise it or not or wish to accept it or not you have a more fundamental objection to his situation which it would not be unfair to say I hinted at previously and smacks of principles. It's fine (although easy to reduce to absurdity) to have an objection on these grounds but at least call it what it is and don't dress it up in some sort of social harm argument. p.s. the officials and the official forum which was televised are nameless only to you and I who cannot remember or perhaps in your case never knew of the event. That the people, and the event, do and did exist, is not up for debate. Way to change the debate Will But let me bring you back to the point. Would you like to point me to the change in statute or government website which makes official and unequivocal the ruling that you say has been put to rest by some chap speaking at a forum, or not? Frankly I don't feel threatened at all. My visa status is fine an it would take a ten fold or more increase in financial imperatives to make me even lose a moments sleep. However it is clear rules are tightening continuously and it is this kind of petty infringement which causes the tightening creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkev1888 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) It's surprising that someone with your alleged understanding of law in practice would feel personally threatened or that your way of life may be threatened in a legal or social sense ('makes it harder for us law abiding immigrants') by someone coming to Thailand to be a student who makes a living by taking nothing from Thailand or involving Thailand in any way other than his person being physically located in the country.Perhaps you could explain how in practical terms his actions affect you or us? You would need to include such things as how his behaviour is detected, how it affects anyone or anything in Thailand etc. Ending with perhaps how he would be "policed" or as you may prefer "brought to justice". Whether you realise it or not or wish to accept it or not you have a more fundamental objection to his situation which it would not be unfair to say I hinted at previously and smacks of principles. It's fine (although easy to reduce to absurdity) to have an objection on these grounds but at least call it what it is and don't dress it up in some sort of social harm argument. p.s. the officials and the official forum which was televised are nameless only to you and I who cannot remember or perhaps in your case never knew of the event. That the people, and the event, do and did exist, is not up for debate. Way to change the debate Will But let me bring you back to the point. Would you like to point me to the change in statute or government website which makes official and unequivocal the ruling that you say has been put to rest by some chap speaking at a forum, or not? Frankly I don't feel threatened at all. My visa status is fine an it would take a ten fold or more increase in financial imperatives to make me even lose a moments sleep. However it is clear rules are tightening continuously and it is this kind of petty infringement which causes the tightening creep. What IS your problem, he will have a valid visa and be learning Thai, if he wants to work online from his room WHO cares, not the Thai authority's me thinks. Why do you? and who is he harming exactly, get real. Oh and congratulations on your vast wealth, again who gives a shit? Edited March 7, 2012 by kevkev1888 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSnapper Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) So do I understand correctly.... if you sit on your sofa and drink beer Leo, then you are a legal expat. If you move over to your computer and do something which generates some income without having any effect on Thailand, the Thai economy... .... then you are an illegal, criminal immigrant who shall be deported and detained. If the criminal energy of illegal immigrants in our home countries would be just on this level, I think we would be much happier.... . Edited March 7, 2012 by GreenSnapper 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean999 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 That is an immature and naive understanding of law, regardless of the jurisdiction in question. Law relies heavily on definitions of terms and legal precedence, and additional interpretations from key figures within the system (judges, groups of judges, senior officials). If you want a rule book then play dungeons and dragons. I work for one of the largest law firms in the world, one with offices in numerous markets. Including Bangkok. You don't need to tell me about how law evolves. I find it ironic that when I ask for a definitive ruling in writing or on a Thai immigration website, you revert to a vague cop out along the lines of 'laws being subject to definition and interpretation', yet you yourself seem very willing to put complete faith in an oral statement by an immigration official at some seminar of somekind, and one that has never been backed up, confirmed or clarified with a press release, amendment to any law or anything else vaguely looking like it has the official stamp of approval. If you seriously think such a vague generalised comment from some unnamed official would be enough to satisfy - for example - an immigration tribunal or would get the OP out of immigration detention should he be caught, then . . . well . . . there's no point carrying on the sentence. I know which horse I'm backing in this race. Surely, you should be happy. If people like him didn't break the law, you would be earning a lot less money. I thought defending law breakers was where the best money was. I might add, i know nothing about you're job, only what i have seen in films. I also know what you see in films is not always real life. Feel free to now make me look like a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean999 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I can't believe there are so many people on here, who have never done anything illegal or bent a rule. Do what you want mate, as long as you can live with the consequences. Life is about having fun and being happy. Good luck Edited March 7, 2012 by dean999 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Personally I'd recommend he waits until he can get himself sorted legally, as I am planning to do. Could save him a lot of future headaches. What I won't be doing, however, is playing the holier than thou card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSnapper Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I can't believe there are so many people on here, who have never done anything illegal or bent a rule. We are all law abiding citizens. Same like all the Thais who never drive a motorbike without helmet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Cheapest place to live in Bangkok? join the street community living under the Pra Pinklao bridge. That's free, and last I noticed, along with the usual blankets and tarps and mattresses, there were four standalone tents. You beat me too it....was going to suggest living under a bridge as well He might find the atmosphere a bit stale with all the other TV members who live under said bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If you move over to your computer and do something which generates some income without having any effect on Thailand, the Thai economy....... then you are an illegal, criminal immigrant who shall be deported and detained ...according to the law, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If you move over to your computer and do something which generates some income without having any effect on Thailand, the Thai economy....... then you are an illegal, criminal immigrant who shall be deported and detained ...according to the law, yes. We all know how literally the law is interpreted and applied in Thailand, ranging from not at all, to bang them up in the Bangkok Hilton. All of which can be made to simply go away with a back-hander to the correct person. Much ado about nothing, except for those who enjoy splitting hairs. Alas, this thread as with many has digressed into a pissing match which the OP specifically asked not to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 As a mod, I'd like to suggest now that people confine themselves to the topic (accommodation). Discussions of Thai law should probably be on some other thread. Issues regarding appropriateness of posts should (as repeatedly stated) be addressed using the 'REPORT' button below each post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackArtemis Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 http://www.apartmentchiangmai.com/index.html Tons of apartments in the 3-5k range, some in the 1.5-2.5k It's in thai, but you can always google translate it if needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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