thomas2969 Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 @mackes said on his first posting that he have not yet registered his marriage.What exactly he mean by that? He have been married under law in UK but not yet registered in LOS? Or he not yet married under law anywhere? Regards Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackes Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Married in traditional way in village but not officially registred at amphue which means nor married in legal terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2969 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 A very interesting topic. As i know, if a farang (foreigner) going to married a thai girl under law anywhere in a farang country. And after sometime they going to registry his marriage also in Thailand it mean the farang never can do a usufruct from land or house anymore. I am right? Regards Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackes Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 A very interesting topic. As i know, if a farang (foreigner) going to married a thai girl under law anywhere in a farang country. And after sometime they going to registry his marriage also in Thailand it mean the farang never can do a usufruct from land or house anymore. I am right? Regards Thomas Probably not, the rule is that a usufruct registered during a marriage of the usufructary and the landowner can be voided. I requires a court order to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2969 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 So, it´s like always: "The loser is the farang". Regards Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoPhysicist Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 A very interesting topic. As i know, if a farang (foreigner) going to married a thai girl under law anywhere in a farang country. And after sometime they going to registry his marriage also in Thailand it mean the farang never can do a usufruct from land or house anymore. I am right? Regards Thomas Probably not, the rule is that a usufruct registered during a marriage of the usufructary and the landowner can be voided. I requires a court order to do so. All that is required is the divorce certificate presented at the land office, and one of the formerly married couple signing a paper canceling the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackes Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 A very interesting topic. As i know, if a farang (foreigner) going to married a thai girl under law anywhere in a farang country. And after sometime they going to registry his marriage also in Thailand it mean the farang never can do a usufruct from land or house anymore. I am right? Regards Thomas Probably not, the rule is that a usufruct registered during a marriage of the usufructary and the landowner can be voided. I requires a court order to do so. All that is required is the divorce certificate presented at the land office, and one of the formerly married couple signing a paper canceling the contract. Sure? Some claims that it requires a court order. Here is the original law text: Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoPhysicist Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Sure? Some claims that it requires a court order. Here is the original law text: Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby. Nothing about a 'court order' in that, only about 'marriage' or 'dissolution of marriage' which would be proven by presentation of a marriage certificate or divorce certificate showing appropriate dates.. Edited April 21, 2012 by TommoPhysicist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2969 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 So what can a farang do if he already married under law with Thai lady for have right on land or house also after divorce or after Thai wife died? Regards Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoPhysicist Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 After divorce you're screwed. After death, get her to make a will out to you first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2969 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) After divorce you're screwed. 3 questions: 1. In case of the land is under name from thai wife. A land lease is also not a option for farang husband? 2. If the house is under name from farang husband and the land is under name from thai wife and they make a usefruct for house and land. What will happen with the house and the land after divorce? 3.What will happen after divorce if the land is not under the name from thai wife? After death, get her to make a will out to you first. We need lawyer for do that will? Regards Thomas Edited April 21, 2012 by thomas2969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoPhysicist Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 1,2,3 You can own the house, options knock it down (brick) or take it with you (wood). Nothing to stop you putting the land in the MILs name with lease or Usewhatsit to you. Register at Amphur office, but don't forget to get a medical to show she is fit to register a will. (You can DIY if simple, ie. husband gets house and land) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2969 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 For make it more clear. In case the land is under the name from thai wife. And the house is under name from farang husband. Same time, Farang husband make usefruct for land and house with thai wife. And thai wife also she make a will out that after she die farang husband he can use land and house until end of his life. 2 questions: In case thai wife need to divorce what will happen? In case thai wife she die what will happen? Regards Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybgood Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 It's been nice to read all the opinions on Usufruct, but as per usual, nothing difinitive or definate there to help the foreigner. No doubt Thai legal consultation will build up one's hopes [for the usual fee]. Usufruct = think of cold war West Berlin without JFK to help. Sorry for the cynicism, it's been a long - hot - Songkran. Time to reclaim my outdoor life. Good luck guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2969 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 So, the farang is always the loser no matter what he do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackes Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 I feel pretty safe that I will not be thrown out of my own house with the usufruct, so what do you mean by always a loser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The 'losers' are the ones that married before buying land. (That includes me). A solution is for the mother in law to buy it, get a usufruct and make sure the mother in law wills it to her daughter. Another is to include a party that is on your side, like a child from a previous marriage or maybe a sister/brother preferably one that normally would live longer than you. In both those solutions a divorce will not make you loose control over the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2969 Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) A solution is for the mother in law to buy it, get a usufruct and make sure the mother in law wills it to her daughter. Mean also if i do a usefruct with my mother in law who is the owner from that land and after that (maybe 2 or 3 month later) she take the land under the name from my wife also everything will work for me? Regards thomas Edited April 29, 2012 by thomas2969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackes Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 If your make a usufruct with a landowner that you are not married to you will be safe. What happens if land change owner to your wife is a question for a lawyer. I believe it is doubtful if comes to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) A solution is for the mother in law to buy it, get a usufruct and make sure the mother in law wills it to her daughter. Mean also if i do a usefruct with my mother in law who is the owner from that land and after that (maybe 2 or 3 month later) she take the land under the name from my wife also everything will work for me? Regards thomas Yes that will work perfectly. In Thailand a 'prenuptial' is build in when you marry. Everything you own before marriage you keep, everything bought during marriage is shared (except land when you are a foreigner to fulfill the law of land ownership. otherwise there would be a conflict). It also means that savings you have from before the marriage stays yours and if you buy something from that savings that is also 100% yours. Now if you have a usufruct from the MIL, then marry, use your savings to build a house you would have 100% right to use the land and 100% ownership of the house. You would need to proof that the money is yours by keeping record of every payment and transfer. The hard sell is to your GF/Wife. Edited April 30, 2012 by Khun Jean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2969 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) A solution is for the mother in law to buy it, get a usufruct and make sure the mother in law wills it to her daughter. Mean also if i do a usefruct with my mother in law who is the owner from that land and after that (maybe 2 or 3 month later) she take the land under the name from my wife also everything will work for me? Regards thomas Yes that will work perfectly. Now if you have a usufruct from the MIL, then marry, use your savings to build a house you would have 100% right to use the land and 100% ownership of the house. My question was it will be safe if..... 1. Step Marriage under law after that..... 2. Step Make usufruct with mother in law after that (don´t know 2 or 3 month later)... 3.Step Mother in law bring the land under wife name. Regards Thomas Edited May 1, 2012 by thomas2969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) Usufruct first, then marry is the best. When already married the usufruct will be sin somros, meaning 50/50 with your wife. Transfering the land from your mother in law to your wife will create a (for lack of a better word) 'circular' ownership. Your wife would then have freehold AND a usufruct on the same piece of land. The land office will not allow that and the usufruct will have to be removed. In practice this would mean a new usufruct with the wife and that is only of value when you want to protect your rights when your wife dies. In a divorce you would loose the right to use the land. Edited May 1, 2012 by Khun Jean 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2969 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 So married first always mean the loser? Usufruct first, then marry is the best. When already married the usufruct will be sin somros, meaning 50/50 with your wife. Transfering the land from your mother in law to your wife will create a (for lack of a better word) 'circular' ownership. Your wife would then have freehold AND a usufruct on the same piece of land. The land office will not allow that and the usufruct will have to be removed. In practice this would mean a new usufruct with the wife and that is only of value when you want to protect your rights when your wife dies. In a divorce you would loose the right to use the land. So, married first mean always the loser? Regards thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 So married first always mean the loser? Usufruct first, then marry is the best. When already married the usufruct will be sin somros, meaning 50/50 with your wife. Transfering the land from your mother in law to your wife will create a (for lack of a better word) 'circular' ownership. Your wife would then have freehold AND a usufruct on the same piece of land. The land office will not allow that and the usufruct will have to be removed. In practice this would mean a new usufruct with the wife and that is only of value when you want to protect your rights when your wife dies. In a divorce you would loose the right to use the land. So, married first mean always the loser? Regards thomas Divorce first, then remarry. Or be faithfull and nice to your wife and hope she does the same. Even when you are unmarried and have a usufruct you still not own anything. Getting your money back is even then only possible if the other party cooperates. Renting or buying a condo are still the best options. When you start doing real business, other solutions are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23962323 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 So married first always mean the loser? Usufruct first, then marry is the best. When already married the usufruct will be sin somros, meaning 50/50 with your wife. Transfering the land from your mother in law to your wife will create a (for lack of a better word) 'circular' ownership. Your wife would then have freehold AND a usufruct on the same piece of land. The land office will not allow that and the usufruct will have to be removed. In practice this would mean a new usufruct with the wife and that is only of value when you want to protect your rights when your wife dies. In a divorce you would loose the right to use the land. So, married first mean always the loser? Regards thomas Divorce first, then remarry. Or be faithfull and nice to your wife and hope she does the same. Even when you are unmarried and have a usufruct you still not own anything. Getting your money back is even then only possible if the other party cooperates. Renting or buying a condo are still the best options. When you start doing real business, other solutions are available. New (well rehashed} no foreigner can buy company way,no agreements longer than 3 years,but you can buy if you give your money to a Thai LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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