chiang mai Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I know this is a big issue here in Thailand, but thousands of foreigners own property here via the company route. As well as many very large foreign corporations. Have not heard of anyone losing their house yet?? We're small potatoes compared to the corporations. Compare it to driving fast or through a red light. Personally i always drive a little to fast, in the last 10 years i got caught 1 time. Pay the ticket and it is over. Problem with a company owning land is that you are vulnerable to being caught every day! And one time it will happen. Loosing the land/house, paying fines, being deported, visas being denied are all possible outcomes. I would not sleep good with that reality. Yes, sure, they might emasculate you too ! Stop being paranoiac ! They will just ask for some tea money and that's all ! Nothing more than speeding or crossing red light ! Agreed. Still waiting for a link showing somebody who has lost their home due to use of a proxy. Do you really think you're ever going to find one? Some brave poster starts a thread that tells how he lost his home because it was bought in a company name and he knew that was illegal, why, the outpouring of grief, sympathy and support would be massive(ly underwhelming). No, I'm afraid in those situations posters don't post and most dont even talk about it, prefering annonimity and the cloak of invisibility instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Do you really think you're ever going to find one? Some brave poster starts a thread that tells how he lost his home because it was bought in a company name and he knew that was illegal, why, the outpouring of grief, sympathy and support would be massive(ly underwhelming). No, I'm afraid in those situations posters don't post and most dont even talk about it, prefering annonimity and the cloak of invisibility instead. that is in my [not so] humble opinion an illogical assumption. scores of posters are telling their pathetic stories how they lost not only their home but all their live savings to their "better halves" and receive insult on top of injury. why should anybody hold back the information that he lost his house because it was built on "illegally" company owned property? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Do you really think you're ever going to find one? Some brave poster starts a thread that tells how he lost his home because it was bought in a company name and he knew that was illegal, why, the outpouring of grief, sympathy and support would be massive(ly underwhelming). No, I'm afraid in those situations posters don't post and most dont even talk about it, prefering annonimity and the cloak of invisibility instead. that is in my [not so] humble opinion an illogical assumption. scores of posters are telling their pathetic stories how they lost not only their home but all their live savings to their "better halves" and receive insult on top of injury. why should anybody hold back the information that he lost his house because it was built on "illegally" company owned property? A modern trend perhaps, public ridicule for admitting personal stupidity, a variant of sado-masochism ala TV, very strange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANICMINER Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thai lawyers use company employees or relatives to act as shareholders - now does that sound legit to you? When they said that they were cracking down on Foreign owned companies owning land, only then did these same law firms start selling usufructs. You cannot trust these law firms that say foreigners can own land; they are like visa agents who say you can get a visa without leaving the country - often they are one and the same. Bottom line, do not invest more than you are prepared to lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Oops at this moment 1480 user(s) are reading this topic Topic is in the news section. http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5129286 Are a few paranoid? If you follow the news a bit you would know that the frequency of those 'crackdowns' are increasing. Does not matter that what is been said is true or not about the percentages owned by foreigners. It will just increase the change of enforcing the old and still current laws. One thing those 'crackdowns' caused is that laywers now advice to only have 36 or 39% of the company that owns land. Otherwise the landoffice will not allow the registration. Others setup company with 100% Thai first, register the land and then transfer 36-49% of the shares to the foreigner. Surely they do that becase 'not once somebody had a problem'. Think again..... Edited March 13, 2012 by Khun Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaPhom Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Same story as 10 years ago...and it comes out twice a year...really 30%of land....still keeps the naysayers happy with a bit of ammunition though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thai lawyers use company employees or relatives to act as shareholders - now does that sound legit to you? When they said that they were cracking down on Foreign owned companies owning land, only then did these same law firms start selling usufructs. You cannot trust these law firms that say foreigners can own land; they are like visa agents who say you can get a visa without leaving the country - often they are one and the same. Bottom line, do not invest more than you are prepared to lose! Don't need law firms to "sell Usufructs", simple standard paperwork at the land office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANICMINER Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thai lawyers use company employees or relatives to act as shareholders - now does that sound legit to you? When they said that they were cracking down on Foreign owned companies owning land, only then did these same law firms start selling usufructs. You cannot trust these law firms that say foreigners can own land; they are like visa agents who say you can get a visa without leaving the country - often they are one and the same. Bottom line, do not invest more than you are prepared to lose! Don't need law firms to "sell Usufructs", simple standard paperwork at the land office. Yes, it is like applying for visas: you can easily do it yourself, but lawyers will still happily charge 10,000 baht to naive clients for escorting them to the immigration offices and checking over a few papers. I am sure they do the same for escorting people to the land office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thai lawyers use company employees or relatives to act as shareholders - now does that sound legit to you? When they said that they were cracking down on Foreign owned companies owning land, only then did these same law firms start selling usufructs. You cannot trust these law firms that say foreigners can own land; they are like visa agents who say you can get a visa without leaving the country - often they are one and the same. Bottom line, do not invest more than you are prepared to lose! Don't need law firms to "sell Usufructs", simple standard paperwork at the land office. Yes, it is like applying for visas: you can easily do it yourself, but lawyers will still happily charge 10,000 baht to naive clients for escorting them to the immigration offices and checking over a few papers. I am sure they do the same for escorting people to the land office. If you've got the money, it's not a bad way to go! My friend hasn't been to immigration in years. Wish I could say the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANICMINER Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thai lawyers use company employees or relatives to act as shareholders - now does that sound legit to you? When they said that they were cracking down on Foreign owned companies owning land, only then did these same law firms start selling usufructs. You cannot trust these law firms that say foreigners can own land; they are like visa agents who say you can get a visa without leaving the country - often they are one and the same. Bottom line, do not invest more than you are prepared to lose! Don't need law firms to "sell Usufructs", simple standard paperwork at the land office. Yes, it is like applying for visas: you can easily do it yourself, but lawyers will still happily charge 10,000 baht to naive clients for escorting them to the immigration offices and checking over a few papers. I am sure they do the same for escorting people to the land office. If you've got the money, it's not a bad way to go! My friend hasn't been to immigration in years. Wish I could say the same! When you apply for visa extensions and the like, i think you are supposed to do it in person. Only if you are hospitalized, can the hospital take care of immigrations matters for you. Your friend must have a shady lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Sorry, and don't mean to be rude, but you must not know much about Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANICMINER Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Sorry, and don't mean to be rude, but you must not know much about Thailand. maybe you want to elaborate on your friends situation, where he is staying in the country long term and does not need to visit immigration in person, because he has a bit of money. i have had eight multiple entry visas from various consulates, and have never heard of of such a visa or extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Before they closed the loophole, I'd drop my passport off at a visa place instead of going on a visa run. They'd run it down to the border with Malaysia along with dozens of others, grease a few palms (like my friend has done), and I'd get it the next day with a new 30 day stamp. Did this for a long time. Same price and I could spend the time relaxing instead of sitting on a bus to Poipet. I don't believe this can be done any more though. Oh, I have a new passport now. So don't have to worry about those dodgy stamps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayinkrabi Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I've watched this topic with some interest but also with some dismay..particularly the comments claiming alls well 'cos no ones been done for it yet... back on topic (i think) can ANYONE answer my earlier query "One question tho..in the case of property owned by a legit company, what happens if the company ceases to trade for whatever reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) I've watched this topic with some interest but also with some dismay..particularly the comments claiming alls well 'cos no ones been done for it yet...plus a post by a plonker going on about the virtues of giving his passport to a stranger to do a visa run on his behalf..<deleted>! (??) back on topic (i think) can ANYONE answer my earlier query "One question tho..in the case of property owned by a legit company, what happens if the company ceases to trade for whatever reason? Companies have to make a profit otherwise they are considered 'vehicles' for other activities. If there is no profit then closing the company down is inevitable. I don't know how this is 'measured' because lots of companies can have a few bad times. I think when the cashflow stops and no activities are taking place will be the moment. When closing the company all assets have to be sold for market value. Edited March 16, 2012 by Khun Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayinkrabi Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just as I thought Khun Jean, all assets have to be sold off..including of course any vehicles & family home that are registered to that company. This is a point not often discussed but surely worth considering given the OP's original question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just as I thought Khun Jean, all assets have to be sold off..including of course any vehicles & family home that are registered to that company. This is a point not often discussed but surely worth considering given the OP's original question. My understanding is you have 1 year. If that's the case, plenty of time to deal with things. Not like they are throwing you out the next day. And if it ever came to this, thousands of farangs would be hitting the courts. It would be years before a final decision was made. In the meantime, Jai Yen Yen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiola Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 how you know you have 1 year? Maybe they give you 1 month to sell the house or they will take it away i am scared buying a house now. If I would know theere are thousands of farangs that did that, i would reconsider, but who knows what is the actual number of faragns that bought the house through company i could buy a great house, i love it, buy a motorcicle and i am done for few years, dream is out of reach i am afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Other thing people forget is that when assets from a company are going to you privately you have to pay tax because it is personal income. Once land is in a company it is pretty much stuck in there. Profits made by selling it, because you can not just transfer it to your wife without a real transaction, will be taxed at 30%. There are so many things that are not good when land is in a company, it is better to not start the wrong way. Exceptions are of course if you acquire land in a company to make a profit on it, and no i don't mean the profit by renting it out to yourself! That will work for a while but the revenue department will start to demand that real business is done other wise the company is just a vehicle holding assets. If that is determined, pretty easy actually, then those assets have to go to the private persons holding the company, and then you have taxes again. Guess what will happen when you apply for an extension for a visa, after your company has been deemed illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Other thing people forget is that when assets from a company are going to you privately you have to pay tax because it is personal income. Once land is in a company it is pretty much stuck in there. Profits made by selling it, because you can not just transfer it to your wife without a real transaction, will be taxed at 30%. There are so many things that are not good when land is in a company, it is better to not start the wrong way. Exceptions are of course if you acquire land in a company to make a profit on it, and no i don't mean the profit by renting it out to yourself! That will work for a while but the revenue department will start to demand that real business is done other wise the company is just a vehicle holding assets. If that is determined, pretty easy actually, then those assets have to go to the private persons holding the company, and then you have taxes again. Guess what will happen when you apply for an extension for a visa, after your company has been deemed illegal. What if you're wife owned a piece of land. And sold it 3 years later at a profit. Wouldn't taxes be due also? Wouldn't that be the same thing with a condo owned in the foreign quota? As far as the visa, immigration never even bats an eye at the company paperwork. And never checks up on it. You could also show utility bills and not have to worry about showing the company paperwork, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 how you know you have 1 year? Maybe they give you 1 month to sell the house or they will take it away i am scared buying a house now. If I would know theere are thousands of farangs that did that, i would reconsider, but who knows what is the actual number of faragns that bought the house through company i could buy a great house, i love it, buy a motorcicle and i am done for few years, dream is out of reach i am afraid Most likely to be in the 100's of thousands!! the high 100,s of thousands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 100's of thousands are the number of foreigners in Thailand. I highly doubt they all bought land through a company. My guess is that 75% rents or owns a condo, 20% their wife owns and they have a lease/usufruct,and 5% owns through a company. Maybe do a poll among TV members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 100's of thousands are the number of foreigners in Thailand. I highly doubt they all bought land through a company. My guess is that 75% rents or owns a condo, 20% their wife owns and they have a lease/usufruct,and 5% owns through a company. Maybe do a poll among TV members. I would have to agree, hundreds of thousands is highly improbable, perhaps one hundred thousand only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Difficult to get an exact figure for sure, but up until around 3 or 4 years ago buying a house in a company name was the "done thing" as far as foreigners were concerned, leases and usufructs were virtually unheard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Just as I thought Khun Jean, all assets have to be sold off..including of course any vehicles & family home that are registered to that company. This is a point not often discussed but surely worth considering given the OP's original question. then there is the tax on electric toothbrushes owned by the company, the taxable profit because trees have grown higher on company land, an investigation to determine missing company assets, e.g. grass clippings from mowing the lawn for years, the water from the deep well drilled on company owned land, the pollution of the land by all the shit from the septic tank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 how you know you have 1 year? Maybe they give you 1 month to sell the house or they will take it away i am scared buying a house now. If I would know theere are thousands of farangs that did that, i would reconsider, but who knows what is the actual number of faragns that bought the house through company i could buy a great house, i love it, buy a motorcicle and i am done for few years, dream is out of reach i am afraid My couple of bahtsworth is in our village a guy from Norway built his house on land he has a 30 year lease from the owners and has a drawn up legally binding contract, he was told he could never own the land by is lawyer. So maybe you could go that way but if your young you could buy a house that can be dismantled to be taken somewhere else, when they don't want to re-lease the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaibruce Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 100's of thousands are the number of foreigners in Thailand. I highly doubt they all bought land through a company. My guess is that 75% rents or owns a condo, 20% their wife owns and they have a lease/usufruct,and 5% owns through a company. Maybe do a poll among TV members. 1. There has been at least one poll done but I don't think it drilled down into that level of detail. Think it just looked at property types and leasing versus owning. Not sure how hard this would be to find via forum search 2. My gut feeling is that even 100,000 individual people owning Thai land via a company would be far in excess of the actual figure. Either way, there is no strength in numbers if it goes to court (lots of axe murderers = more axe murderers being found not guilty ... don't think so). From a political perspective, the more who were found to have gone this route would mean the stronger pressure on the gov't for a (real) crackdown ... i.e. it would weaken your position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayinkrabi Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Just as I thought Khun Jean, all assets have to be sold off..including of course any vehicles & family home that are registered to that company. This is a point not often discussed but surely worth considering given the OP's original question. then there is the tax on electric toothbrushes owned by the company, the taxable profit because trees have grown higher on company land, an investigation to determine missing company assets, e.g. grass clippings from mowing the lawn for years, the water from the deep well drilled on company owned land, the pollution of the land by all the shit from the septic tank... Whats your point Naam? I don't really think the Thai authorities will worry too much about the missing grass cuttings etc. they would already have plenty to use and give a v hard time to anyone who can't prove a company is genuine..at ANY time in the future, Thai law is quite clear on this. I'm not convinced this thread is for real anyway as the OP posed a rather silly question that common sense & a few minutes research could answer. It has however provided a few decent responses that may be useful to someone new to this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I think Naam owns his land and house through a company and starting to feel uncomfortable. No worries just slip a few K to the inspector. Edited March 20, 2012 by Khun Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker7 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I do know of a farang who received the dreaded black stamp - no names or details - and he still managed to keep his house and company together even though he isnt allowed back in Thailand. Not sure if he would be able to sell it but that's a diff question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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