U.S. added 3.9 million jobs in past 2 years

[midas]

does anyone remember this from November 2008

[Jingthing]

To clarify my point of view, I don't doubt the deeply distressing fundamental realities or think Obama has done a perfect job. It's just that I think right wing punish the poor/welfare for the rich solutions are WORSE than four more years of Obama. In my view, times like these require someone closer to FDR and between Obama and whatever right winger, Obama will be closer. Interestingly, FDR was the only president ever to reelected with unemployment numbers as bad as they are now. I sincerely believe Obama will also be reelected.

I think he COULD be beaten, but not with Romney, Santorum, or Gingrich.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

To clarify my point of view, I don't doubt the deeply distressing fundamental realities or think Obama has done a perfect job. It's just that I think right wing punish the poor/welfare for the rich solutions are WORSE than four more years of Obama. In my view, times like these require someone closer to FDR and between Obama and whatever right winger, Obama will be closer. Interestingly, FDR was the only president ever to reelected with unemployment numbers as bad as they are now. I sincerely believe Obama will also be reelected.

I think he COULD be beaten, but not with Romney, Santorum, or Gingrich.

But FDR didn't get the US out of the depression. It took the war in Europe to kick start the economy.

By the way, the House has passed 30 jobs bills that are languishing on the desk of Harry Reid, the Democratic Majority Leader of the Senate. He refuses to call them to the floor.

[chops]

we now have even the Wall Street Journal questioning the integrity of the alleged job numbers

" Something about the U.S. economy isn't adding up."

"How can an economy that is growing so slowly produce such big declines in unemployment?"

http://online.wsj.co...1466314018.html

People are leaving the workforce and the country itself. People like me.

[flying]

People are leaving the workforce and the country itself. People like me.

+1...see my sig

[midas]

<snip>

it's not enough for Obama to rejoice that he has added all these low paying jobs

because on the other side of the equation i.e. after people stop working

things are beginning to deteriorate fast

" Many Americans that have been basing their financial futures on their pensions are waking up and finding that their pensions are either gone or have been cut back dramatically. According to Northwestern University Professor John Rauh, the latest estimate of the total amount of unfunded pension and healthcare obligations for state and local governments across the United States is 4.4 trillion dollars. America is continually becoming a poorer nation and all of that money is simply not going to magically materialize somehow '

http://theeconomicco...hing-completely

Edited March 15, 2012 by metisdead
Deleted post removed.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, I agree the U.S. is a poorer nation. More tax breaks for the small rich elite is not going to make it better.

[midas]

but it's not going to be made better either by spending money you don't have

" all of that money is simply not going to magically materialize somehow "

think of the money that could be directed towards pensions if USA left Afghanistan now

and stopped all worldwide military actions

Edited March 15, 2012 by midas

[chuckd]

but it's not going to be made better either by spending money you don't have

" all of that money is simply not going to magically materialize somehow "

think of the money that could be directed towards pensions if USA left Afghanistan now

and stopped all worldwide military actions

...and stopped ALL foreign aid, cut back on State Department and Congressional boondoggles and expenditures, Froze all federal hiring at present levels with 5% reduction annually, stopped paying 22% of the UN costs, got out of the IMF with that 18% contribution, closed the Energy Department/EPA/Education Departments, Congress stopped ALL earmarks, cut the federal budget back to 2006 maximum, sold the Post Office and Amtrak to the highest bidder, closed ALL military bases in Europe and charged Obama's campaign for mileage on Air Force One.

And these are only starters.

[midas]

but it's not going to be made better either by spending money you don't have

" all of that money is simply not going to magically materialize somehow "

think of the money that could be directed towards pensions if USA left Afghanistan now

and stopped all worldwide military actions

...and stopped ALL foreign aid, cut back on State Department and Congressional boondoggles and expenditures, Froze all federal hiring at present levels with 5% reduction annually, stopped paying 22% of the UN costs, got out of the IMF with that 18% contribution, closed the Energy Department/EPA/Education Departments, Congress stopped ALL earmarks, cut the federal budget back to 2006 maximum, sold the Post Office and Amtrak to the highest bidder, closed ALL military bases in Europe and charged Obama's campaign for mileage on Air Force One.

And these are only starters.

chuckd America needs you !

[metisdead]

An off topic post and a reply have been removed.

[koheesti]

Yeah, I agree the U.S. is a poorer nation. More tax breaks for the small rich elite is not going to make it better.

I agree! The top 1% are only paying 37% of all personal income taxes while the bottom 50% are paying a whopping 3%!! This injustice must not be allowed to continue!!

In addition, the bottom 50% own businesses that hire others. My own boss has a small factory employing 10 people and he does it all living out of a refrigerator box in an alley down off Main Street! While those rich 1%-ers just collect money out of thin air! HOW IS THAT FAIR!?!

Edited March 15, 2012 by koheesti

[chuckd]

Yeah, I agree the U.S. is a poorer nation. More tax breaks for the small rich elite is not going to make it better.

I agree! The top 1% are only paying 37% of all personal income taxes while the bottom 50% are paying a whopping 3%!! This injustice must not be allowed to continue!!

In addition, the bottom 50% own businesses that hire others. My own boss has a small factory employing 10 people and he does it all living out of a refrigerator box in an alley down off Main Street! While those rich 1%-ers just collect money out of thin air! HOW IS THAT FAIR!?!

While my son has built up a business from scratch that employs 30 people who support another 6,000 and he just sits back and clips his coupons. Yeah...right.

He gets off his bum every day and goes to his office and doesn't live in a tent on public land.

[flying]

Of course everyone should pay their share but for certain politicians to make their total case out of

rich folks paying more taxes is a aberration.

They can tax the rich till the cows come home & it will not make a nick in the overspending/debt

Then to top it off the rich can/will continue to leave & do business offshore...That will increase jobs how?

Instead they should look at the real causes of the problems not scapegoats.

Edited March 16, 2012 by flying

[Scott]

The discussion is a little off-topic, but will be allowed to continue provided posters remain civil and roughly relates to the economy and jobs.

[chuckd]

Let me add a little footnote to some of these chats.

I just did a little research and discovered the 100 richest people in the US have a total net worth of $1.008 TRILLION.

The federal government budget for fiscal year 2012 is $3.796 TRILLION.

If the 100 richest people in the US had all of their assets taken from them and sold for what they claim to be worth, the federal government could operate only FOUR MONTHS from the cash derived from the sale of their total assets.

The problem isn't the rich giving too little...the problem is the US government is spending too much.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/

http://en.wikipedia...._federal_budget

Edited March 16, 2012 by chuckd

[chops]

Let me add a little footnote to some of these chats.

I just did a little research and discovered the 100 richest people in the US have a total net worth of $1.008 TRILLION.

The federal government budget for fiscal year 2012 is $3.796 TRILLION.

If the 100 richest people in the US had all of their assets taken from them and sold for what they claim to be worth, the federal government could operate only FOUR MONTHS from the cash derived from the sale of their total assets.

The problem isn't the rich giving too little...the problem is the US government is spending too much.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/

http://en.wikipedia...._federal_budget

There's a lot more rich people than 100..

[chops]

Yeah, I agree the U.S. is a poorer nation. More tax breaks for the small rich elite is not going to make it better.

I agree! The top 1% are only paying 37% of all personal income taxes while the bottom 50% are paying a whopping 3%!! This injustice must not be allowed to continue!!

In addition, the bottom 50% own businesses that hire others. My own boss has a small factory employing 10 people and he does it all living out of a refrigerator box in an alley down off Main Street! While those rich 1%-ers just collect money out of thin air! HOW IS THAT FAIR!?!

3%? Doubt it. Even minimum wage workers pay 20% of their wages to taxes. Hardest hit for taxes is the middle/upper middle class. I think they pay about 40% of their incomes to taxes. Richest pay less than the middle class now.

[chuckd]

Let me add a little footnote to some of these chats.

I just did a little research and discovered the 100 richest people in the US have a total net worth of $1.008 TRILLION.

The federal government budget for fiscal year 2012 is $3.796 TRILLION.

If the 100 richest people in the US had all of their assets taken from them and sold for what they claim to be worth, the federal government could operate only FOUR MONTHS from the cash derived from the sale of their total assets.

The problem isn't the rich giving too little...the problem is the US government is spending too much.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/

http://en.wikipedia...._federal_budget

There's a lot more rich people than 100..

You are correct. Forbes lists the 400 richest people in the US. Since there are no other research sources available showing their net worth, this is the source I chose to use.

The remaining 300 richest people in the US have a collective net worth of $569.7 Billion to add to the highest 100's collective net worth of $1.008 Trillion. My Casio calculator tells me this makes available assets amounting to a grand total of $1.577.7 Trillion of the richest 400 people in the US.

Now, with a federal expenditure of $3.796 Trillion for fiscal 2012, and using the standard 365 day year, that means the US government is spending $10.4 Billion per day, 24/7.

Going merrily along, we take our total rich people's assets of $1.577.7 Trillion and divide that figure by the total daily expenditures of the federal government of $10.4 Billion and we find...voila!

If the total assets of the richest 400 people in the US were seized by the government and sold for what they claim to be worth, the government could operate for a grand total of...151 days and 17 hours.

After that both the US government and the richest 400 would be broke.

As I said, it isn't the rich that are paying too little, it is the government that is spending too much.

Edited March 17, 2012 by chuckd

[midas]

Let me add a little footnote to some of these chats.

I just did a little research and discovered the 100 richest people in the US have a total net worth of $1.008 TRILLION.

The federal government budget for fiscal year 2012 is $3.796 TRILLION.

If the 100 richest people in the US had all of their assets taken from them and sold for what they claim to be worth, the federal government could operate only FOUR MONTHS from the cash derived from the sale of their total assets.

The problem isn't the rich giving too little...the problem is the US government is spending too much.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/

http://en.wikipedia...._federal_budget

There's a lot more rich people than 100..

You are correct. Forbes lists the 400 richest people in the US. Since there are no other research sources available showing their net worth, this is the source I chose to use.

The remaining 300 richest people in the US have a collective net worth of $569.7 Billion to add to the highest 100's collective net worth of $1.008 Trillion. My Casio calculator tells me this makes available assets amounting to a grand total of $1.577.7 Trillion of the richest 400 people in the US.

Now, with a federal expenditure of $3.796 Trillion for fiscal 2012, and using the standard 365 day year, that means the US government is spending $10.4 Billion per day, 24/7.

Going merrily along, we take our total rich people's assets of $1.577.7 Trillion and divide that figure by the total daily expenditures of the federal government of $10.4 Billion and we find...voila!

If the total assets of the richest 400 people in the US were seized by the government and sold for what they claim to be worth, the government could operate for a grand total of...151 days and 17 hours.

After that both the US government and the richest 400 would be broke.

As I said, it isn't the rich that are paying too little, it is the government that is spending too much.

2 interesting figures i saw today

$15,564,809,891,767.99 - This is how high record US federal debt is as of today. (source)

$8.354 billion. This is how much net US tax revenues (net of refunds ) are lower in fiscal 2012 to date compared to the same period in 2011. (source).

Edited March 17, 2012 by midas

[chops]

...and the official unemployment rate is still 8.3%.

The unofficial rate is something over 14% but nobody knows for certain.

I agree but the way the stats are determined apply no matter who is in power. People are starting to feel things really are going in a good DIRECTION now. Two term Obama -- it's in the bag.

Add to that he doesn't really have any competition!

The feeling is still "ABO" "Anybody But Obama"

A couple of things:

1) except for the last 3 months of this "recovery", the number of jobs added were way less than the number of jobs required to keep the job market stable. Only about 200,000 jobs have been available to get the unemployment level lower. Most of the unemployment rate change has been due to people falling off unemployment, retiring or filing for disability for depression from being stressed from being unable to find a job for so long.

2) the price of gas is going to reverse the direction of the recovery.

If the job participation rate was going up, then there would be some hint of a recovery.

People have got to stop whining about the job situation. The big companies have been shedding jobs for decades. If nobody gives you a job you need to give yourself a job. Sell something. Start your own company. Why are so many people expecting there to be some cushy $50k job just waiting for them after college just because they have a piece of paper? The real word doesn't work like that. See all these food carts in Thailand? These people have created jobs for themselves when there were none.

[chuckd]

You are correct. Forbes lists the 400 richest people in the US. Since there are no other research sources available showing their net worth, this is the source I chose to use.

The remaining 300 richest people in the US have a collective net worth of $569.7 Billion to add to the highest 100's collective net worth of $1.008 Trillion. My Casio calculator tells me this makes available assets amounting to a grand total of $1.577.7 Trillion of the richest 400 people in the US.

Now, with a federal expenditure of $3.796 Trillion for fiscal 2012, and using the standard 365 day year, that means the US government is spending $10.4 Billion per day, 24/7.

Going merrily along, we take our total rich people's assets of $1.577.7 Trillion and divide that figure by the total daily expenditures of the federal government of $10.4 Billion and we find...voila!

If the total assets of the richest 400 people in the US were seized by the government and sold for what they claim to be worth, the government could operate for a grand total of...151 days and 17 hours.

After that both the US government and the richest 400 would be broke.

As I said, it isn't the rich that are paying too little, it is the government that is spending too much.

2 interesting figures i saw today

$15,564,809,891,767.99 - This is how high record US federal debt is as of today. (source)

$8.354 billion. This is how much net US tax revenues (net of refunds ) are lower in fiscal 2012 to date compared to the same period in 2011. (source).

As stated in my post above, the federal budget for 2012 runs to $10.4 Billion per day.

Unfortunately the shortfall of $8.354 Billion is only a little over 19 hours operating funds for the behemoth called the US government.

[flying]

Unfortunately the shortfall of $8.354 Billion is only a little over 19 hours operating funds for the behemoth called the US government.

If folks reading that do not think it is amazing I dont know what to say

[koheesti]

Yeah, I agree the U.S. is a poorer nation. More tax breaks for the small rich elite is not going to make it better.

I agree! The top 1% are only paying 37% of all personal income taxes while the bottom 50% are paying a whopping 3%!! This injustice must not be allowed to continue!!

In addition, the bottom 50% own businesses that hire others. My own boss has a small factory employing 10 people and he does it all living out of a refrigerator box in an alley down off Main Street! While those rich 1%-ers just collect money out of thin air! HOW IS THAT FAIR!?!

3%? Doubt it. Even minimum wage workers pay 20% of their wages to taxes. Hardest hit for taxes is the middle/upper middle class. I think they pay about 40% of their incomes to taxes. Richest pay less than the middle class now.

Don't doubt it. Those were 2008 IRS numbers. I checked the IRS website and they now have 2009 so the numbers are a bit different. According to the 2009 individual tax return data from the IRS (http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=133521,00.html), the top 1% of individual returns (1.38 million returns) paid 35.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 17.9% of the income). The bottom 50% of individual returns (69.08 million) paid 2.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 13.3% of the income).

In recent years - except 2011 - I paid about 10% in federal income tax (not including FICA Social Security andFICA Medicare). Spending half of 2011 unemployed it dropped down to about 3.5%.

[chops]

Yeah, I agree the U.S. is a poorer nation. More tax breaks for the small rich elite is not going to make it better.

I agree! The top 1% are only paying 37% of all personal income taxes while the bottom 50% are paying a whopping 3%!! This injustice must not be allowed to continue!!

In addition, the bottom 50% own businesses that hire others. My own boss has a small factory employing 10 people and he does it all living out of a refrigerator box in an alley down off Main Street! While those rich 1%-ers just collect money out of thin air! HOW IS THAT FAIR!?!

3%? Doubt it. Even minimum wage workers pay 20% of their wages to taxes. Hardest hit for taxes is the middle/upper middle class. I think they pay about 40% of their incomes to taxes. Richest pay less than the middle class now.

Don't doubt it. Those were 2008 IRS numbers. I checked the IRS website and they now have 2009 so the numbers are a bit different. According to the 2009 individual tax return data from the IRS (http://www.irs.gov/t...=133521,00.html), the top 1% of individual returns (1.38 million returns) paid 35.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 17.9% of the income). The bottom 50% of individual returns (69.08 million) paid 2.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 13.3% of the income).

In recent years - except 2011 - I paid about 10% in federal income tax (not including FICA Social Security andFICA Medicare). Spending half of 2011 unemployed it dropped down to about 3.5%.

So you're saying somebody making a typical wage in the US doesn't pay taxes? Bull. I don't believe one bit of it.

[koheesti]

I agree! The top 1% are only paying 37% of all personal income taxes while the bottom 50% are paying a whopping 3%!! This injustice must not be allowed to continue!!

In addition, the bottom 50% own businesses that hire others. My own boss has a small factory employing 10 people and he does it all living out of a refrigerator box in an alley down off Main Street! While those rich 1%-ers just collect money out of thin air! HOW IS THAT FAIR!?!

3%? Doubt it. Even minimum wage workers pay 20% of their wages to taxes. Hardest hit for taxes is the middle/upper middle class. I think they pay about 40% of their incomes to taxes. Richest pay less than the middle class now.

Don't doubt it. Those were 2008 IRS numbers. I checked the IRS website and they now have 2009 so the numbers are a bit different. According to the 2009 individual tax return data from the IRS (http://www.irs.gov/t...=133521,00.html), the top 1% of individual returns (1.38 million returns) paid 35.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 17.9% of the income). The bottom 50% of individual returns (69.08 million) paid 2.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 13.3% of the income).

In recent years - except 2011 - I paid about 10% in federal income tax (not including FICA Social Security andFICA Medicare). Spending half of 2011 unemployed it dropped down to about 3.5%.

So you're saying somebody making a typical wage in the US doesn't pay taxes? Bull. I don't believe one bit of it.

Everyone pays sales tax. Some people pay Income Tax but with misc tax credits get it all - or more - back when they file their return.

Here is my own tax data from this past year. It is horribly low but that's what unemployment will do to one's income:

2011 Federal Tax Return Summary

Adjusted Gross Income $ 14,458.00

Taxable Income $ 4,958.00

Total Tax $ 498.00

Total Payments/Credits $ 1,456.00

Amount to be Refunded $ 958.00

Effective Tax Rate 3.44%

My initial tax rate was roughly 10% but after taking deductions/credits it dropped to 3.44%. I couldn't even take advantage of all the credits that are available. If I could have, I would have gotten back more than I paid in. Here's a screenshot of part of my return I did on TurboTax:

Edited March 18, 2012 by koheesti

[chuckd]

Don't doubt it. Those were 2008 IRS numbers. I checked the IRS website and they now have 2009 so the numbers are a bit different. According to the 2009 individual tax return data from the IRS (http://www.irs.gov/t...=133521,00.html), the top 1% of individual returns (1.38 million returns) paid 35.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 17.9% of the income). The bottom 50% of individual returns (69.08 million) paid 2.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 13.3% of the income).

In recent years - except 2011 - I paid about 10% in federal income tax (not including FICA Social Security andFICA Medicare). Spending half of 2011 unemployed it dropped down to about 3.5%.

So you're saying somebody making a typical wage in the US doesn't pay taxes? Bull. I don't believe one bit of it.

For your edification...

___________________________________________________

51% of Americans Pay No Federal Income Taxes

MAY 4 2011, 9:05 AM ET 120

Half of American tax payers owe no federal income tax, and most of those filers actually net tax benefits from federal income taxes, according to analysis from the Joint Committee on Taxation in a letter to the Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee.

This is the kind of statistic that is bound to get traction as Osama news subsides, and here are two ways to look at it.

Story continues here.. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/05/51-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-taxes/238329/

[koheesti]

My initial tax rate was roughly 10% but after taking deductions/credits it dropped to 3.44%.

Since I posted my own personal tax rate of 3.44% from 2011, I thought I would post the Average Tax Rate for 2009 from the IRS website.

Top 1% 21.39

Top 5% 18.63

Top 10% 16.76

Top 25% 14.00

Top 50% 12.18

It could be that I'm reading the data wrong. So please review it for yourselves and point out where/if I'm wrong. The link to the document I'm taking all this from is http://www.irs.gov/p...i/09in07tr.xls.

Here is the opportunity to read the data and come to your own conclusions instead of reading the interpretation of a journalist who may want to spin things a certain way.

This is what the file 09in07tr.xls contains...

Data for the below is divided by the Top 1%, 5%, 10%, 25% and 50%

Number of returns: [1]

Income floor on percentiles (current dollars):

Income floor on percentiles (constant dollars): [3]

Income (millions of current dollars):

Total income tax (millions of current dollars): [4]

Average tax rate (percentage): [5]

Income share (percentage):

Total income tax share (percentage):

Edited March 18, 2012 by koheesti

[flying]

Sadly it is true & folks on Welfare actually get money back

Then for the rest that fall under...???... I forget but I think it is around 20k

if you have no kids & as high as 50k if you have 3

they get earned income credit....in a nutshell if you worked you get credit

All fine & well & to tell you the truth I feel income taxes should be abolished

Talk about stimulus.....There is real stimulus injected direct in the vein...but.....

This claim that only the rich get breaks is silly.

[chops]

Don't doubt it. Those were 2008 IRS numbers. I checked the IRS website and they now have 2009 so the numbers are a bit different. According to the 2009 individual tax return data from the IRS (http://www.irs.gov/t...=133521,00.html), the top 1% of individual returns (1.38 million returns) paid 35.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 17.9% of the income). The bottom 50% of individual returns (69.08 million) paid 2.4% of the taxes (and accounted for 13.3% of the income).

In recent years - except 2011 - I paid about 10% in federal income tax (not including FICA Social Security andFICA Medicare). Spending half of 2011 unemployed it dropped down to about 3.5%.

So you're saying somebody making a typical wage in the US doesn't pay taxes? Bull. I don't believe one bit of it.

For your edification...

___________________________________________________

51% of Americans Pay No Federal Income Taxes

MAY 4 2011, 9:05 AM ET 120

Half of American tax payers owe no federal income tax, and most of those filers actually net tax benefits from federal income taxes, according to analysis from the Joint Committee on Taxation in a letter to the Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee.

This is the kind of statistic that is bound to get traction as Osama news subsides, and here are two ways to look at it.

Story continues here.. http://www.theatlant...e-taxes/238329/

Well, they must be dodging taxes then. I know if you have an average $50k job you pay a huge chunk of it in payroll taxes in the US. Either you do not live there or you have never had a job.