Crackdown On Land Owned By Foreign Residents

[JRinger]

Of course also you can forget marry a Thai female, since May 2011 the Thai Law was enacted, Foreigners fifty year of age and older are not allowed to marry Thai females regardless of adult Thai female age. If they defy the Thai Law and marry in a foreign country, the Thai female risks loosing her Thai citizenship entitlements.

Incorrect, there is no such law.

George did post one 1st of April post about it however...

He's confused Thailand with Cambodia... http://www.telegraph...ocal-women.html

Edited March 14, 2012 by JRinger

[Nisa]

For one reason or another those who live here are aware that Thailand is not the worst country in Asia. But it is a known fact that the rights that Thais enjoy in other countries (land ownership, for instance) foreigners are barred from the enjoyment of those same rights.

Each country has its own way of doing things and just as Thais may enjoy certain rights in other countries that many outsiders don't here, you enjoy certain rights in other countries many of them cannot ... for one, even being able to go to many countries.

It really gets old having foreigners who have the means and ability to travel overseas and live in a foreign nations play victim to people who make an average of $9 (if lucky) a day and the overwhelming vast number of them will never step foot in another country let alone see a real ocean, visit an island in their own country or even stay in a hotel room. And if they could freely travel to another country the overall vast majority of them couldn't afford to let along buy a freaking second hand car let alone property.

What are we poor farangs to do when all these Thais have so much advantage over us when it comes to things like owning land in their own country and being able to go to visit certain attraction in their country for free? Woooo us poor deprived farangs.

I agree with you that Thailand holds precarious conditions for its own people. Each country should endeavor to the betterment of the standard of living for its citizens. Why the powers that be in Thailand do not do that? Maybe you should lead a crusade explaining to the powers that be how unfair and precarious is life for the Thai people who cannot travel, own a car and/or buy land in a foreign country. Lead on and do something productive to remedy the inequities of life in Thailand!

Lobby the powers that be to stop unfairness for the gracious Thai people. If you do that, I am sure that many Farangs will join you in spirit because most of us cannot volunteer do it along side you: the vast majority of Farangs do not have work permits.

First of all I was not complaining about Thais or their government or in anyway indicating that the government and this country doesn't continue to improve and modernize itself or that it needs my advise to continue to improve or that the government isn't concerned for its people. In fact Thailand has recently raised its socioeconomic status globally and is now recognized as a "Newly" Industrialized Nation and not a developing nation. Not to mention the increase of minimum wage from $6 a day to $9 a day for what is often a 10 to 12 hour work day or free medical care and eduction.

I am not naive to believe changes can happen overnight nor am I naive in understanding and accepting that there less fortunate and poor and even much poorer countries in the world. However, just about every indicator there is points to a Thailand with a radical growth in terms of standard of living for its citizens over the last decades as well as having one of the fastest growing economies in all of Asia. And if you took a poll of middle aged Thais you'd probably be very surprised to find the number of them who didn't have electricity growing up let alone a TV, telephone or refrigerator. The standard of living has improved pretty much as close to overnight as it can but still is not equal to that of a first world type nation.

It will be a while before most Thais can enjoy the kind of benefits of this modernized world that so many of us posting on this forum enjoy but Thailand continue to go in the right direction for its people and continues to grown economically and as a global influence each year. The government also takes numerous steps to protect its people including having land laws to limit foreigners from increasing land values beyond the reach of all but the very wealthy Thais. And as with most other countries, they require a permit for foreigners to work and/or volunteer but they even take it a step further by having restrictions on work permits for paying jobs to prevent foreigners from taking jobs from locals ... something the citizens of many countries wish their government would do.

And if somebody wants to volunteer in Thailand then simply join an organization and go get a work permit that allows you to do volunteer work ... it really is a simple process. But maybe this is just another thing that many people love to complain about even though it has absolutely zero effect on their life ... kind of like people screaming Human Rights Violations for bans on alcohol but in the same breath saying they are big drinkers.

Or how about just using some logic when it comes to restrictions like land purchases ... if people want to retire or live in a foreign country where you can buy land then don't come to Thailand or any of the other many countries that restrict such purchases. Instead go to a country that allows such investment or would the land be too expensive and/or possibly a country you cannot afford to live. And nobody stops to consider the low cost of living here just might be related to the laws limiting foreign immigration and economic related issues. Then again, folks may not even get to the point of considering this because they country they may want to go live won't allow their Thai wife or GF to live or possibly even enter.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Nisa

[Reasonableman]

Nisa, this is a discussion, not a win-lose debate. Foreigners cannot buy land. Understood. Said foreigners (in my own case a long-term permanent resident with a Thai family and a decent job) want to be able to buy land, understood. Government policy currently does not support that. Some people would like to agitate for a change in policy. They may succeed in getting government attention and they may not. But they will not just accept the staus quo and roll over and play dead like you seem to want. You apparently think they should, and they disagree. That is also fact. Browbeating and endless defensive arguments justifying the policy will not force them to resign themselves to the status quo. This issue is not going away. Sorry about that.

[submaniac]

Just to through out some food for thought, for everyone (in other words this is NOT a response to Reasonableman's post, it just happens to follow his) but let's say, just for sake of argument, that the law was changed, and foreigners were allowed to purchase land in Thailand. I think people have not taken into consideration that, if foreign land ownership were allowed, the land purchasers may not necessarily be speaking English. Think Chinese language. Think Russian language. Think even Indian language.

Look at Pattaya. How many of the condos and houses belong to native Russian speakers? I was just checking on house and condo prices online, and they seem to have gone up in price as of late. I suspect it might have something to do with Russian buyers.

For those advocating foreign ownership of Thai land, keep in mind that if that happened, you are also in danger of being priced out of the market. Just a thought.

[Reasonableman]

A valid point. But it seems this is happening under the current law anyway. I'm not advocating open slather, but when people invest their lives, hearts and assets in a country, by proven criteria (long-term permanent residency, family, job, transferring their worldly possessions and other assets, have no criminal record, are in good standing and repute, and demonstrably contribute to improving their adopted country during that period), I think they should be able to buy and own land on which to live.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Reasonableman

[submaniac]

^^

Then I think the issue for you is not really whether foreigners should be allowed to own land but rather why long term falang ex pats should not be given more rights analogous to citizenship rights, which would include land ownership. I think allowing anyone from any country to buy Thai land would lead to disaster. If you're a citizen, the land is not being sold to a foreigner.

[yoshiwara]

For those who own property through a nominee method there has always been a background risk of the situation turning potentially ugly. In practice we know that ministers on occasion begin sabre-rattling and it passes by. The biggest risk is the playing of the nationalist card against the 'rapacious' foreigners owning Thai land and one can see elements of that now. Whether it comes to anything is doubtful but the background noise is enough for many not to want to dip their toes in the pool. Those who have just have to live with it. The other little issue is that in a relatively liquid property market one can just sell and move on. Outside of Bangkok, (including Bangkok?) the market not so easy for selling reasonably quickly without serious discounting.

[RakJungTorlae]

wasting your breath, its all talk no action around here. Agreed that a foreigner should be a thai citizen to perches land in thailand.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[submaniac]

OMG! RJT where have you been hiding yourself, buddy?!?! Good to see a voice of reason around here!

[Reasonableman]

^^

Then I think the issue for you is not really whether foreigners should be allowed to own land but rather why long term falang ex pats should not be given more rights analogous to citizenship rights, which would include land ownership. I think allowing anyone from any country to buy Thai land would lead to disaster. If you're a citizen, the land is not being sold to a foreigner.

Agreed, but also remember that most of Thai land is owned by a small minority of the Thai population, so preserving cheap land for the masses is a furphy. And blaming foreigners, as in this article, is another.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Reasonableman

[RakJungTorlae]

Long storey, off shore atm, will touch down bkk soon. Need to catch up man.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[submaniac]

Long storey, off shore atm, will touch down bkk soon. Need to catch up man.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Well wishing you a safe trip back, and hope all is good for you.

Agreed, but also remember that most of Thai land is owned by a small minority of the Thai population, so preserving cheap land for the masses is a furphy. And blaming foreigners, as in this article, is another.

You are correct. Most of the land is owned by a small minority. It is already difficult for the average Thai to save enough money to buy property. Part of the wrath against foreign ownership is because of this sentiment. But then again, Thailand is no different really than the USA. Wealthiest 1% of the population accounts for 40% of the country's wealth.

[toybits]

Swerver probably confused the Cambodian Law for Thai. But then they're all the same right? Thais, Cambodians, Laos, Burmese - same same...

Of course also you can forget marry a Thai female, since May 2011 the Thai Law was enacted, Foreigners fifty year of age and older are not allowed to marry Thai females regardless of adult Thai female age. If they defy the Thai Law and marry in a foreign country, the Thai female risks loosing her Thai citizenship entitlements.

Incorrect, there is no such law.

George did post one 1st of April post about it however...

[Reasonableman]

Date: 10 September 2008

The Treasury Department's plan to reclaim one million rai of idle land from state agencies and allocate it to landless farmers could lead to severe land use conflicts, the National Human Rights Commission has warned. The cabinet in June instructed the department to reclaim one million rai of its land leased to state agencies and distribute it to needy farmers. About 98% of the department's 12.5 million rai of land is occupied by state agencies. Most of the land is in the hands of the Defence and the Agriculture and Cooperatives ministries. The scheme is aimed at increasing the amount of land available for plantations of fuel crops for the production of ethanol.

http://www.asiapacificforum.net/news/thailand-nhrc-warns-land-redistribution-plan-will-lead-to-conflicts.html

[Nisa]

Nisa, this is a discussion, not a win-lose debate. Foreigners cannot buy land. Understood. Said foreigners (in my own case a long-term permanent resident with a Thai family and a decent job) want to be able to buy land, understood. Government policy currently does not support that. Some people would like to agitate for a change in policy. They may succeed in getting government attention and they may not. But they will not just accept the staus quo and roll over and play dead like you seem to want. You apparently think they should, and they disagree. That is also fact. Browbeating and endless defensive arguments justifying the policy will not force them to resign themselves to the status quo. This issue is not going away. Sorry about that.

Do you really believe anyone here is going to take any steps to change this law beyond beating the drum on Thaivisa? You keep mentioning this as a reason for the complaining but what steps are being taken to change the law? In fact, the tone, accusations and words towards Thais in many posts, not to mention the utter self serving and indifference towards Thais, would pretty much ensure tighter restrictions on foreigners if these people were to act as a mouth piece for foreigners. However, I did find amusing the suggestion that people petition their own countries to specifically ban the rights of Thais from buying land in their country ... as if even their own leaders wouldn't think these people _______. (fill in the blank yourself)

If it is so important for foreigner to own land in a country they constantly whine about and whose people they feel they are superior then take the path towards citizenship or find another country because believe it or not, the Thais knew what they were doing when they passed the law and you (a foreigner) and not going to get them to compromise their own citizens for your gains. For all the others who enjoy Thailand and its people, and not beating our heads against a wall, we have found a way to have homes and live happily with our families.

As for complaining, that seems to be a big purpose of posting on Thaivisa. So, let it continue but people should at some point take into consideration the few logical and rational posts mixed into the over the top complaining if they ever want to be happy living in Thailand.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Nisa

[Soutpeel]

If it is so important for foreigner to own land in a country they constantly whine about and whose people they feel they are superior then take the path towards citizenship or find another country because believe it or not, the Thais knew what they were doing when they passed the law and you (a foreigner) and not going to get them to compromise their own citizens for your gains. For all the others who enjoy Thailand and its people, and not beating our heads against a wall, we have found a way to have homes and live happily with our families.

Very well put

[Reasonableman]

If it is so important for foreigner to own land in a country they constantly whine about and whose people they feel they are superior then take the path towards citizenship or find another country because believe it or not, the Thais knew what they were doing when they passed the law and you (a foreigner) and not going to get them to compromise their own citizens for your gains. For all the others who enjoy Thailand and its people, and not beating our heads against a wall, we have found a way to have homes and live happily with our families.

Very well put

Very incisive contribution

Edited March 15, 2012 by Reasonableman

[Reasonableman]

Nisa, this is a discussion, not a win-lose debate. Foreigners cannot buy land. Understood. Said foreigners (in my own case a long-term permanent resident with a Thai family and a decent job) want to be able to buy land, understood. Government policy currently does not support that. Some people would like to agitate for a change in policy. They may succeed in getting government attention and they may not. But they will not just accept the staus quo and roll over and play dead like you seem to want. You apparently think they should, and they disagree. That is also fact. Browbeating and endless defensive arguments justifying the policy will not force them to resign themselves to the status quo. This issue is not going away. Sorry about that.

Do you really believe anyone here is going to take any steps to change this law beyond beating the drum on Thaivisa? You keep mentioning this as a reason for the complaining but what steps are being taken to change the law? In fact, the tone, accusations and words towards Thais in many posts, not to mention the utter self serving and indifference towards Thais, would pretty much ensure tighter restrictions on foreigners if these people were to act as a mouth piece for foreigners. However, I did find amusing the suggestion that people petition their own countries to specifically ban the rights of Thais from buying land in their country ... as if even their own leaders wouldn't think these people _______. (fill in the blank yourself)

If it is so important for foreigner to own land in a country they constantly whine about and whose people they feel they are superior then take the path towards citizenship or find another country because believe it or not, the Thais knew what they were doing when they passed the law and you (a foreigner) and not going to get them to compromise their own citizens for your gains. For all the others who enjoy Thailand and its people, and not beating our heads against a wall, we have found a way to have homes and live happily with our families.

As for complaining, that seems to be a big purpose of posting on Thaivisa. So, let it continue but people should at some point take into consideration the few logical and rational posts mixed into the over the top complaining if they ever want to be happy living in Thailand.

Please don't try to put words in my mouth if you are ostensibly replying to me. Thanks.

If you find the issues of concern to others irritating or irrelevant, then move one, read something else, don't get involved. If you're not happy on TVF, don't whine and complain about it, just close your account or find another blog. Same same.

[submaniac]

Nisa, please please just chill a little bit. I don't think Reasonableman has been out of line for having any of the opinions he has expressed, even though I may or may not agree with all of his opinions. We all have different opinions on various subjects, and there is room enough here on Thaivisa that we can discuss it in an open environment.

[Gweiloman]

^^

Then I think the issue for you is not really whether foreigners should be allowed to own land but rather why long term falang ex pats should not be given more rights analogous to citizenship rights, which would include land ownership. I think allowing anyone from any country to buy Thai land would lead to disaster. If you're a citizen, the land is not being sold to a foreigner.

Agreed, but also remember that most of Thai land is owned by a small minority of the Thai population, so preserving cheap land for the masses is a furphy. And blaming foreigners, as in this article, is another.

Is this a fact? I would not be surprised if this was the case in big commercial areas like Bangkok but out in the woods, I'm pretty certain that most of the land is owned by the residents (if you ignore the fact that most are usually mortgaged to the hilt). I don't think the (Chinese) minority owns a lot of the farm land out Isaan way.

[Gweiloman]

Can a farang who becomes a Thai citizen, purchase and own land in their own names?

[submaniac]

Can a farang who becomes a Thai citizen, purchase and own land in their own names?

yes.

[lannarebirth]

Just to through out some food for thought, for everyone (in other words this is NOT a response to Reasonableman's post, it just happens to follow his) but let's say, just for sake of argument, that the law was changed, and foreigners were allowed to purchase land in Thailand. I think people have not taken into consideration that, if foreign land ownership were allowed, the land purchasers may not necessarily be speaking English. Think Chinese language. Think Russian language. Think even Indian language.

Look at Pattaya. How many of the condos and houses belong to native Russian speakers? I was just checking on house and condo prices online, and they seem to have gone up in price as of late. I suspect it might have something to do with Russian buyers.

For those advocating foreign ownership of Thai land, keep in mind that if that happened, you are also in danger of being priced out of the market. Just a thought.

Think Middle Eastern Sovereign Wealth Funds.

[Gweiloman]

<snip>

For all the others who enjoy Thailand and its people, and not beating our heads against a wall, we have found a way to have homes and live happily with our families.

I have recently just completed building a house to the tune of some 2 million baht (original budget was 400-500 k but you know how these things get out of hand). Is the land in my name? No. Is the house in my name (all these 30 year lease loopholes and so on and so forth)? No. Car in my name? No. Why oh why? Apart from the probable fact that I'm a fool, my wife has given (and is still giving) me a good life and a beautiful son. What happens if I get kicked out tomorrow? That's life, karma, whatever you want to call it.

My ex-English wife did not take me to the cleaners either - just half of everything that I have earned over many years of hard work. I still pay monthly maintenance to my kids, as this is my duty and responsibility as a father. Even if I should kick the bucket tomorrow, I have enough money in the UK to provide for them into adulthood. Why should I deprive my new family of the same things that my old family enjoyed? If I do kick the bucket tomorrow, I must ensure as well that my new family is well provided for, meaning the rest of my worldly assets.

Try this sometime. Some of you might actually start to understand why some say that it is better to give than to receive.

[submaniac]

Why is the Condo route so unacceptable...I still don't get this. Large condos are available, and those you can own outright.

[Nisa]

Nisa, this is a discussion, not a win-lose debate. Foreigners cannot buy land. Understood. Said foreigners (in my own case a long-term permanent resident with a Thai family and a decent job) want to be able to buy land, understood. Government policy currently does not support that. Some people would like to agitate for a change in policy. They may succeed in getting government attention and they may not. But they will not just accept the staus quo and roll over and play dead like you seem to want. You apparently think they should, and they disagree. That is also fact. Browbeating and endless defensive arguments justifying the policy will not force them to resign themselves to the status quo. This issue is not going away. Sorry about that.

Do you really believe anyone here is going to take any steps to change this law beyond beating the drum on Thaivisa? You keep mentioning this as a reason for the complaining but what steps are being taken to change the law? In fact, the tone, accusations and words towards Thais in many posts, not to mention the utter self serving and indifference towards Thais, would pretty much ensure tighter restrictions on foreigners if these people were to act as a mouth piece for foreigners. However, I did find amusing the suggestion that people petition their own countries to specifically ban the rights of Thais from buying land in their country ... as if even their own leaders wouldn't think these people _______. (fill in the blank yourself)

If it is so important for foreigner to own land in a country they constantly whine about and whose people they feel they are superior then take the path towards citizenship or find another country because believe it or not, the Thais knew what they were doing when they passed the law and you (a foreigner) and not going to get them to compromise their own citizens for your gains. For all the others who enjoy Thailand and its people, and not beating our heads against a wall, we have found a way to have homes and live happily with our families.

As for complaining, that seems to be a big purpose of posting on Thaivisa. So, let it continue but people should at some point take into consideration the few logical and rational posts mixed into the over the top complaining if they ever want to be happy living in Thailand.

Please don't try to put words in my mouth if you are ostensibly replying to me. Thanks.

If you find the issues of concern to others irritating or irrelevant, then move one, read something else, don't get involved. If you're not happy on TVF, don't whine and complain about it, just close your account or find another blog. Same same.

What words did I put in your mouth? That certainly wasn't my intention and actually don't believe anything I wrote should be taken that way.

As for your last comment, why not look at the last statement in my post which goes against your assumption of my feelings towards Thaivisa. I don't want to say you are putting words in my mouth but....

[Nisa]

<snip>

For all the others who enjoy Thailand and its people, and not beating our heads against a wall, we have found a way to have homes and live happily with our families.

I have recently just completed building a house to the tune of some 2 million baht (original budget was 400-500 k but you know how these things get out of hand). Is the land in my name? No. Is the house in my name (all these 30 year lease loopholes and so on and so forth)? No. Car in my name? No. Why oh why? Apart from the probable fact that I'm a fool, my wife has given (and is still giving) me a good life and a beautiful son. What happens if I get kicked out tomorrow? That's life, karma, whatever you want to call it.

My ex-English wife did not take me to the cleaners either - just half of everything that I have earned over many years of hard work. I still pay monthly maintenance to my kids, as this is my duty and responsibility as a father. Even if I should kick the bucket tomorrow, I have enough money in the UK to provide for them into adulthood. Why should I deprive my new family of the same things that my old family enjoyed? If I do kick the bucket tomorrow, I must ensure as well that my new family is well provided for, meaning the rest of my worldly assets.

Try this sometime. Some of you might actually start to understand why some say that it is better to give than to receive.

You sound like a very good person with a very good heart and I'm fairly confident this will be a big part of why you will continue to live a happy life here. I also have to assume that you probably learned a number of lessons from your failed marriage back home. It amazes me how many people come here and believe they are going to have a better relationship simply because they choose a partner from a different country as opposed to first working on themselves.

All of us are far from perfect but I believe I am taking the right path in learning from Thai culture to be more accepting of people and things instead of focusing on what is wrong or should be changed that is out of my control. I should probably consider this too more when responding to some posters but then again debating issues with other English speakers is fun and I do know that I have helped some see they are missing out on enjoying what Thailand has to offer by focusing so much on negatives that usually don't even have to have a negative impact on most of us ... including this land issue.

[Khun Jean]

Why is the Condo route so unacceptable...I still don't get this. Large condos are available, and those you can own outright.

Brainwashed that a condo and renting is for lower class people. And you don't want to be lower class now do you?

Everyone his own castle.

[Reasonableman]

Some people would like to have a house with a garden for kids to play in, so they can get outside in the sunshine and get some fresh air and exercise, and not be cooped up in a condo. It would also be nice to enjoy a better environment, such as parks, cleaner air, less overall pollution (air, noise, trash, etc), sure. Why not?

[davehowden]

So if I buy a property for my Thai girlfriend (I put up the money but the title is in her name) it's illegal?

What will they do, make her sell it or just take it away from her, maybe throw both of us in jail.

What a truly democratic country this is, why not worry about something important eh??