UK pensions

[steve187]

4 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Perhaps it because no one told us when they were taking our subscriptions at the time, we only found out when we moved abroad and enquired why we did not get our annual increase? Whilst you are/were making your NI contributions where does it say........"by the way be aware that if at sometime in the future, when you retire and you move abroad your pension will most likely be frozen from the date you go." 

but who would have thought  some 45-50 years ago when you were first starting work, that you would think about a trip to the far east let alone retire there, all brits then retired to bogner or eastbourne

[Flustered]

I think that the real reason is that people misjudge and under estimate how the cost of living will go up and affect their income. I expect it's quiet easy to think you are living like a King and then be surprised as later on inflation bites into your income.

 

As towns become more popular they become more expensive. As more ex pats arrive, the prices rise above local inflation.

 

Also, it's a bitch living longer. By my age both my dad and grandad had pegged it but with modern drugs, we are kept alive until something in your body is no longer repairable.

 

In the final scenario, we are all responsible for ourselves. No one else will look after our interests so do the research and live the best you can.

 

Addendum

 

When I win the Euro Squillions, my plan is to start a foundation that will build a community village employing local young girls to look after and support destitute old ex pats so that we can all sit around complaining and telling the world where it has gone wrong.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Flustered

[nong38]

13 hours ago, steve187 said:

but who would have thought  some 45-50 years ago when you were first starting work, that you would think about a trip to the far east let alone retire there, all brits then retired to bogner or eastbourne

The rule was brought in 1955 so someone did and that was at a time when going to the Channel Islands was beyond most people and since that date they still dont tell you that if you go abroad to live in retirement that your pension might be affected.

[evadgib]

Happy for this to be moved if there's a better place for it.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/webinars-about-the-hmrc-personal-tax-account

[steve187]

2 hours ago, nong38 said:

The rule was brought in 1955 so someone did and that was at a time when going to the Channel Islands was beyond most people and since that date they still dont tell you that if you go abroad to live in retirement that your pension might be affected.

the government always plan ahead for the future, who knew that when the 'right to buy' came about you would have to pay for nursing/care homes if the need arose, - the government did, but joe public didn't

[steve187]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Happy for this to be moved if there's a better place for it.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/webinars-about-the-hmrc-personal-tax-account

seems a good idea

[Jim P]

Hi everyone

 

Im planning my retirement to Thailand in 2018 from the UK, maybe sooner as I can retire in July of this year. I will have a final salary pension, a lump sum and rental income from my UK property. My question is what is the most cost effective method to have access to this money every month. I will be opening a Thai bank account with the relevant money deposited to obtain the retirement extension.

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Jim P

[Flustered]

On 17/02/2017 at 3:12 AM, nong38 said:

The rule was brought in 1955 so someone did and that was at a time when going to the Channel Islands was beyond most people and since that date they still dont tell you that if you go abroad to live in retirement that your pension might be affected.

Yes they do. If you notify the DWP that you are moving overseas to live, you will be told that this could affect your pension.

 

I do not know of anyone who does not understand this. You would have to be dumb or dumber not to check on your pension benefits when moving.

 

They even post it on their website.

 

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/rates-of-state-pension

Edited February 21, 2017 by Flustered

[Eff1n2ret]

1 hour ago, Jim P said:

Hi everyone

 

Im planning my retirement to Thailand in 2018 from the UK, maybe sooner as I can retire in July of this year. I will have a final salary pension, a lump sum and rental income from my UK property. My question is what is the most cost effective method to have access to this money every month. I will be opening a Thai bank account with the relevant money deposited to obtain the retirement extension.

 

A long time ago I read on this forum:- "Never bring into Thailand any more assets than you can afford to walk away from." I still live by that advice and consider it sound. I hung on to my UK bank account and credit cards, but informed them of my move which has never been a problem (my new bank card arrived here yesterday). I have my pensions and rental income paid into my UK bank and make transfers to top up my Thai account when I need to. I use a foreign exchange company to make baht transfers - the rates are not bad and there's no commission. You just go online, make a deal, transfer to them from your UK bank and it's in your Thai bank 3-4 days later. If you decide to go this route, it's easier to set up your account while you still have a UK address - the address verification process is a bit easier.

If you need access to your pensions as they come in on a regular monthly basis, you can probably arrange for them to be paid direct to your Thai account. The state retirement pension certainly can be paid this way.  Many on this forum do and can probably advise you better than me.

[nong38]

17 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

A long time ago I read on this forum:- "Never bring into Thailand any more assets than you can afford to walk away from." I still live by that advice and consider it sound. I hung on to my UK bank account and credit cards, but informed them of my move which has never been a problem (my new bank card arrived here yesterday). I have my pensions and rental income paid into my UK bank and make transfers to top up my Thai account when I need to. I use a foreign exchange company to make baht transfers - the rates are not bad and there's no commission. You just go online, make a deal, transfer to them from your UK bank and it's in your Thai bank 3-4 days later. If you decide to go this route, it's easier to set up your account while you still have a UK address - the address verification process is a bit easier.

If you need access to your pensions as they come in on a regular monthly basis, you can probably arrange for them to be paid direct to your Thai account. The state retirement pension certainly can be paid this way.  Many on this forum do and can probably advise you better than me.

This  is good advice, dont burn your bridges and set things up in the UK before you come and make sure they are working for you as you think they should.

It will pay you open an account here for everyday running costs which you are doing but see what else there is on offer, for the Retirement Visa I use a "Mee THai Die" account which is a type of savings account that pays better interest and is accepted by Immigration as a savings account, the interest should pay for your visa. Also think about medical costs, as we get older we become a bad risk so insurance might be prohibitive, self insure yourself?

There are plenty of investments on offer at the banks here but dont assume you will understand them of they way finance works here in Thailand, talk to the bank and give them your risk profile and see what you think, the good bit here is that a "foreign" investor will get no tax deduction, as a foreigner that will pay tax in the UK you should not pay any tax here but you will on your savings, which you can claim back.

Try and find a bank that has some English speakers to cut down on translation problems and you will get them.

[steve187]

18 hours ago, Jim P said:

Hi everyone

 

Im planning my retirement to Thailand in 2018 from the UK, maybe sooner as I can retire in July of this year. I will have a final salary pension, a lump sum and rental income from my UK property. My question is what is the most cost effective method to have access to this money every month. I will be opening a Thai bank account with the relevant money deposited to obtain the retirement extension.

 

would it be easier to go the monthly income letter from the Uk embassy route, saves tying up money

[Oxx]

6 minutes ago, nong38 said:

the good bit here is that a "foreign" investor will get no tax deduction, as a foreigner that will pay tax in the UK you should not pay any tax here but you will on your savings, which you can claim back.

 

This looks very wrong to me.  If you spend more than 180 days in any tax year in Thailand you're subject to Thai income tax, whatever your nationality.

 

If you have a TIN (taxpayer identification number) here you can elect to receive interest gross with no tax deducted on many (maybe most) bank accounts (subject to balance limits).

[nong38]

Just now, Oxx said:

 

This looks very wrong to me.  If you spend more than 180 days in any tax year in Thailand you're subject to Thai income tax, whatever your nationality.

 

If you have a TIN (taxpayer identification number) here you can elect to receive interest gross with no tax deducted on many (maybe most) bank accounts (subject to balance limits).

There is a dual tax arrangement with the UK, you only pay tax in one country. If you end up paying tax in Thailand you can claim it back on a yearly basis.

[nong38]

8 minutes ago, steve187 said:

would it be easier to go the monthly income letter from the Uk embassy route, saves tying up money

A couple of points to consider, maybe more. You will have to go to the Embassy which might not be convenient and will cost you transport and maybe a hotel for the night. The letter from the Embassy costs how much, I might be wrong but I thought it was over 3000bts and there are other considerations as well.

[steve187]

Just now, nong38 said:

A couple of points to consider, maybe more. You will have to go to the Embassy which might not be convenient and will cost you transport and maybe a hotel for the night. The letter from the Embassy costs how much, I might be wrong but I thought it was over 3000bts and there are other considerations as well.

all done by post, £52.00 last week, or via an agent in Pattaya 3,500baht

[nong38]

2 minutes ago, steve187 said:

all done by post, £52.00 last week, or via an agent in Pattaya 3,500baht

Well, its just over 2200 bts at a cost to you then whereas if you deposit the 800,000 bts you in the account  will get interest to pay for the visa and more so the choice is there, which ever one rocks your boat.

[steve187]

4 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Well, its just over 2200 bts at a cost to you then whereas if you deposit the 800,000 bts you in the account  will get interest to pay for the visa and more so the choice is there, which ever one rocks your boat.

going off topic, so deleted my reply

Edited February 22, 2017 by steve187

[nong38]

1 minute ago, steve187 said:

going off topic, so deleted my reply

Like your Lotus Cortina, there is one in Pattaya.

[Eff1n2ret]

33 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Also think about medical costs, as we get older we become a bad risk so insurance might be prohibitive, self insure yourself?

Spot on. Unless you have some provision for the inevitable medical  costs that will arise as you get old, don't even think of retiring to Thailand. Either an insurance policy or a substantial pot of money which you add to as and when you can and leave untouched for as long as possible. I've had a few bouts of illness, including a couple of short stays in hospital, but have been fortunate to be able to fund  these costs so far out of current income. The bit of pension lump sum that I didn't spend on a car went into a separate (UK) account into which all my house rental income has been paid, and which awaits the erosion of my other income by inflation or further devaluation of the pound or a major medical event. 

[Oxx]

24 minutes ago, nong38 said:

26 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

This looks very wrong to me.  If you spend more than 180 days in any tax year in Thailand you're subject to Thai income tax, whatever your nationality.

 

If you have a TIN (taxpayer identification number) here you can elect to receive interest gross with no tax deducted on many (maybe most) bank accounts (subject to balance limits).

There is a dual tax arrangement with the UK, you only pay tax in one country. If you end up paying tax in Thailand you can claim it back on a yearly basis.

 

If you're retired and living in Thailand then you are not resident in the UK for tax purposes.  Only your UK income is subject to UK income tax - not any income arising in Thailand.

 

You are resident in Thailand for tax purposes, but Thailand doesn't tax overseas income, only local income.

 

So, you pay UK tax on your UK income and Thai tax on your Thai income.  

 

If you pay income tax on interest arising in Thailand you can reclaim this subject to threshold limits from the Thai taxman.  Nothing whatsoever to do with any dual tax arrangement.

 

Only in the unusual case that you're tax resident in both countries (an unlikely situation for someone who's retired here) does the DTA come into play.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

This looks very wrong to me.  If you spend more than 180 days in any tax year in Thailand you're subject to Thai income tax, whatever your nationality.

 

If you have a TIN (taxpayer identification number) here you can elect to receive interest gross with no tax deducted on many (maybe most) bank accounts (subject to balance limits).

 

That is not necessarily correct. I have lived in Thailand for many years and I have never paid any income tax on my earnings or my pension. I paid income tax on my offshore earnings in whatever country I was working in and I pay UK tax on my pensions, but no income tax in Thailand.

 

For sure if you have a job in Thailand and are employed by a Thai company and meet the tax requirements after deductions you will pay income tax but the deductions if you are married, have a child or children, have Thai in laws etc and you can claim a tax deduction for them too.The deductions quite generous.

[Jim P]

5 hours ago, steve187 said:

would it be easier to go the monthly income letter from the Uk embassy route, saves tying up money

Never heard of this but it sounds expensive and inconvenient.

 

 

4 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

The bit of pension lump sum that I didn't spend on a car went into a separate (UK) account into which all my house rental income has been paid, and which awaits the erosion of my other income by inflation or further devaluation of the pound or a major medical event. 

22 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

 

If you need access to your pensions as they come in on a regular monthly basis, you can probably arrange for them to be paid direct to your Thai account. The state retirement pension certainly can be paid this way.  Many on this forum do and can probably advise you better than me.

 

Yes I would need regular access to the monthly pension and the rental income, occasionally maybe some of the lump sum for unforeseen circumstances such as medical. What I want to get away from is charges for a few thousand baht here and there at the cash point which I have found come out both ends when I have been on holiday. Maybe I can have both the pension and rental paid into a Thai bank account and keep my 800000k in a separate  "Mee THai Die" account  as suggested. I dont foresee any tax implications as I am paying tax on the pension and rental in the UK and not working in Thailand.

 

[Oxx]

18 minutes ago, Jim P said:

keep my 800000k in a separate  "Mee THai Die" account  as suggested.

 

Might want to check the name of the account, though:

 

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/en/PersonalBanking/DepositProducts/SavingsDeposit/MeeTaeDaiSavings.html

 

(Good account, in my opinion.  Easier than juggling fixed term accounts.)

[Jim P]

2 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/en/PersonalBanking/DepositProducts/SavingsDeposit/MeeTaeDaiSavings.html

 

(Good account, in my opinion.  Easier than juggling fixed term accounts.)

Excellent, thank you Oxx for the link and nong38 for suggesting this account.

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, Jim P said:

Never heard of this but it sounds expensive and inconvenient.

Not at all:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

[evadgib]

From the horses mouth:

 

Double Taxation Treaties: non UK resident with UK income

• 23 June 2016 
•  
• Guidance 
•  
• HMRC

Guidance on Double Taxation Relief and a list of territories with a doubletaxation treaty with the UK.

 

Tax on your UK income if you live abroad

Find out whether you need to pay tax on your UK income while you're living abroad - non-resident landlord scheme, tax returns, claiming relief if you’re taxed twice, personal allowance of tax-free income, form R43

 

 

Back on Topic:

 

https://www.gov.uk/statepensiontopup

Edited February 22, 2017 by evadgib

[theoldgit]

A new Green Paper from the Government considering allowing pension providers to restrict the increases for those on index linked pensions, inevitably many of these Green Papers turn into law.

 

telegraph.co.uk - Pensioners could lose 30pc gold plated income plans considered

[steve187]

16 hours ago, Jim P said:

Never heard of this but it sounds expensive and inconvenient.

 

 

 

 

the letter is yearly not monthly , and you should do some research on retiring to Thailand

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

A new Green Paper from the Government considering allowing pension providers to restrict the increases for those on index linked pensions, inevitably many of these Green Papers turn into law.

 

telegraph.co.uk - Pensioners could lose 30pc gold plated income plans considered

This is a most disturbing development and in my opinion the start of the slippery slope. Essentially it will create a right by employers to alter the terms of pension indexation for people who are already drawing their pensions. This is a line that the government should not be allowed to cross.

[Expattaff1308]

3 hours ago, steve187 said:

the letter is yearly not monthly , and you should do some research on retiring to Thailand

and is done by post, no visit to the Embassy in Bangkok is required.