UK pensions

[Jim P]

4 hours ago, steve187 said:

the letter is yearly not monthly , and you should do some research on retiring to Thailand

If you had explained it more clearly it doesn't sound so bad, so thanks for that, its well worth looking at if its yearly.

 

I am doing research, that is why I am here trying to gleam information from those that are already wearing the t shirt. I have over a year before making the leap and Im also learning the language, we all started somewhere.

[Flustered]

7 hours ago, theoldgit said:

A new Green Paper from the Government considering allowing pension providers to restrict the increases for those on index linked pensions, inevitably many of these Green Papers turn into law.

 

telegraph.co.uk - Pensioners could lose 30pc gold plated income plans considered

This of course would not be applicable to MPs pensions.

[nong38]

8 hours ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

This is a most disturbing development and in my opinion the start of the slippery slope. Essentially it will create a right by employers to alter the terms of pension indexation for people who are already drawing their pensions. This is a line that the government should not be allowed to cross.

Mine was index linked to the RPI which now being changed to CPI, it starts in April so its no surprise its going to become common place but very sad non the less, all companies seem to have a black hole in their pension plans and this seems to be the way to start and close it even though they are the ones ones who created the problem in the first place by not keeping up the payments.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

6 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Mine was index linked to the RPI which now being changed to CPI, it starts in April so its no surprise its going to become common place but very sad non the less, all companies seem to have a black hole in their pension plans and this seems to be the way to start and close it even though they are the ones ones who created the problem in the first place by not keeping up the payments.

Public sector mentions have already been changed from RPI to CPI linking and CPI itself has been meddled with recently. This pernicious Green paper takes the process a step  further and could theoretically result in no indexation at all, where a company can demonstrate that it is "stressed". The accountants will already be working overtime trying to find new and clever ways to come within the definition. Pension deficits don't stop companies from paying shareholder dividends !

[nong38]

13 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

Public sector mentions have already been changed from RPI to CPI linking and CPI itself has been meddled with recently. This pernicious Green paper takes the process a step  further and could theoretically result in no indexation at all, where a company can demonstrate that it is "stressed". The accountants will already be working overtime trying to find new and clever ways to come within the definition. Pension deficits don't stop companies from paying shareholder dividends !

Along with all the other blurb, it was mentioned that the "Company" under their new rules were not bound to pay any further increases but historically they always had>" Most re assuring, I can recall a time in the 1980's when they took "Pension Holidays" now they have to keep shovelling to fill the ever increasing hole!

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

1 minute ago, nong38 said:

Along with all the other blurb, it was mentioned that the "Company" under their new rules were not bound to pay any further increases but historically they always had>" Most re assuring, I can recall a time in the 1980's when they took "Pension Holidays" now they have to keep shovelling to fill the ever increasing hole!

I have a strong suspicion that a lot of money has changed hands in order to get this Green paper off the ground. If its possible to have a pensions holiday then its just as possible to have a dividends holiday. Analysis has demonstrated that the entire UK company pension deficit could be cleared by a single year of dividend holiday.

[JB300]

I thought a Pensions holiday was something companies took when their pension pots were doing too good.

Also thought it was something Gormless Broon forced on them to raise more tax when times we're good

It's because of Pension Holidays Pensions are in the mess they're in, they're not a way to get out of the mess.

Have they never heard of 7 years of feast followed by 7 years of famine?

[nong38]

Couple of articles in todays thisismoney.co.uk regarding pensions, one is Budget related the other is about the new proposals for our company pensions will move forward in the future and as stated above they are not going to of benefit to the ordinary employee, senior employees will know doubt have a different scheme for them to keep them in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

Joe public this is your future and it looks as if it could be retrospective as well affecting todays pensioners and the older you are the more it could affect you as it will be served up using different dating blocks.

[al007]

On 2/22/2017 at 10:25 AM, Oxx said:

 

If you're retired and living in Thailand then you are not resident in the UK for tax purposes.  Only your UK income is subject to UK income tax - not any income arising in Thailand.

 

You are resident in Thailand for tax purposes, but Thailand doesn't tax overseas income, only local income.

 

So, you pay UK tax on your UK income and Thai tax on your Thai income.  

 

If you pay income tax on interest arising in Thailand you can reclaim this subject to threshold limits from the Thai taxman.  Nothing whatsoever to do with any dual tax arrangement.

 

Only in the unusual case that you're tax resident in both countries (an unlikely situation for someone who's retired here) does the DTA come into play.

Not totally correct

 

if you have income arising outside Thailand and bring it into Thailand in the same tax year IT IS LIABLE TO TAX HERE

 

However if you do not remit it for one year you are safe

 

A simple retired Chartered Accountant and former Price Waterhouse tax specialist

 

Of course USA citizens are liable to USA tax on world income where ever they may live, even for some years after they surrender their USA passport

[Oxx]

6 minutes ago, al007 said:

if you have income arising outside Thailand and bring it into Thailand in the same tax year IT IS LIABLE TO TAX HERE

 

However if you do not remit it for one year you are safe

 

A simple retired Chartered Accountant and former Price Waterhouse tax specialist

 

Are you able to provide even a single example of an individual who has paid tax bringing income into Thailand in the same tax year?

 

For that matter, are you able to provide a reference to where in the Thai tax code is says that this is the case?

 

As a Chartered Accountant and former Price Waterhouse tax specialist I'm sure that accuracy is important to you, so I really hope you can pin down the details.

[al007]

On 2/21/2017 at 3:03 PM, Jim P said:

Hi everyone

 

Im planning my retirement to Thailand in 2018 from the UK, maybe sooner as I can retire in July of this year. I will have a final salary pension, a lump sum and rental income from my UK property. My question is what is the most cost effective method to have access to this money every month. I will be opening a Thai bank account with the relevant money deposited to obtain the retirement extension.

 

Some suggestions, I am but a mere simple retired Chartered Accountant living happily and quietly here in Thailand I am fully retired and seek no reward whatsoever

 

If you are cutting ties with the Uk make sure you have bank accounts in place first 

 

Lloyds offshore in Isle of man can be very good free international transfers but min balance 2500 sterling and reasonable gross assets

 

Pension you bring to Thailand is not taxable here, or taxed at zero rate

 

Other income if you bring to Thailand in the year you earn it liable to tax here but leave it in account outside UK like IOM then no tax on interest in UK or when you bring it here

 

If you need help PM me , I will also give you my phone number, I seek no reward, just happy to help others

 

You will find incorrect financial advice on TV and people looking to fleece you be careful also lucky good luck

[al007]

On 2/23/2017 at 7:47 AM, theoldgit said:

A new Green Paper from the Government considering allowing pension providers to restrict the increases for those on index linked pensions, inevitably many of these Green Papers turn into law.

 

telegraph.co.uk - Pensioners could lose 30pc gold plated income plans considered

I posted on another forum that this  article is particularly relevant to those thinking about transfers to QROPS or SIPPS  because if this were to happen it would significantly reduce transfer values from defined benefit schemes

 

I have a QROPS and know probably more than most financial advisers on this topic, at present I am in contact for personal reasons about the upcoming changes with government officials re QROPS in Gibraltar, which will soon have flexible drawdown and legislation will be before the UK government this month, March, I am also in contact with QROPS officials at HMRC in London

 

Unfortunately some of my posts have been removed

 

I am a retired Chartered Accountant and seek no reward but will happily give advice and help on the phone, I have been in Thailand for ten yrs plus PM me if you need help and I will willingly give my phone number

 

Be careful, there are financial advisers here and maybe on TV who are untrustwothy and not safe

[al007]

33 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

Are you able to provide even a single example of an individual who has paid tax bringing income into Thailand in the same tax year?

 

For that matter, are you able to provide a reference to where in the Thai tax code is says that this is the case?

 

As a Chartered Accountant and former Price Waterhouse tax specialist I'm sure that accuracy is important to you, so I really hope you can pin down the details.

Mr Oxx Sir you seem upset by my comments for which I suggest you do your own research

 

What might your qualification be may I ask, are you an FCA or tax barrister

 

I am retired and gone are the days when I have all the tax acts at my fingernails

 

However I think PW do a tax summation on Thailand that will confirm my statements, if you are familiar with google,  then maybe you could google it

 

If I am wrong and I am always open to that I will willingly buy you dinner, is the offer also open if I give you proof  you buy my wife and me dinner, the restaurant of the winners discretion anywhere in Thailand and to include wine, again the wine at  the choice of the winner maybe put your money where your mouth is, as you see I am willing

 

I do not work do not complete tax returns on behalf of other so have no information on who might or might not bring income into the country in the year in which it has been earnt

 

This has also been confirmed to me by Bank Bangkok executives in their trust and tax departments

 

I am pretty upto date with tax laws here as I have every wish to pay all that I owe

[NoshowJones]

On 2/15/2017 at 4:08 PM, Flustered said:

"minimum Income calculation" ....What a load of rubbish

 

Someone has been paid a huge sum of money to draw up a simple spread sheet and fill it with figures plucked out of the air. I would put good money on the "think tank" being comprised of well off "luvvies" who have no idea what normal people spend money on.

 

How about breaking these figures down. Whoever dreamed this up needs their heads looking at. I do not know any opensioner spending £87 a week on social and cultural events. We don't all go to the Royal Albert Hall each week

 

Thank  you Bild for sharing this with us, it helps us to see how misguided so many of these reports are.

 

We are a normal pensioner couple, living a normal life and having paid off our mortgage and car. We live a good life, eat good food and see friends each week. Our total outgoings each month are around. £1,200 and that includes gas and electric as well as council tax. Mind you, we do not have X boxes or Play stations, do not go to the theater each week and make do with our normal clothes, mending when torn or wearing out. We grow our own veg and fruit and love our lifestyle.

 

Obviously something is wrong with us as we do not fit into the think tank figures.

You are OAPs and you still have to pay council tax?? The UK is absolutely sick.

[NoshowJones]

On 2/16/2017 at 6:49 PM, Flustered said:

Could you use larger print. Some of us OAPs have trouble reading anything smaller than 14 point on this forum....LOL

 

Everyone knows that your pension is frozen if you move to certain countries so why all the shock, horror, we are being cheated posts?

"Everyone knows that your pension is frozen" I never knew till long after I came to stay in Thailand. I believe that the majority of people in the UK don't know either. 

It is not a thing that the government would want everyone to know about, is it?

[Flustered]

Just now, possum1931 said:

"Everyone knows that your pension is frozen" I never knew till long after I came to stay in Thailand. I believe that the majority of people in the UK don't know either. 

It is not a thing that the government would want everyone to know about, is it?

It is clearly stated on the DWP website and when you apply for your pension.

 

If people are too lazy to read it they can only blame themselves.

 

If you are retiring overseas, you obviously check your pension figures and when you do, you are told.

 

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/rates-of-state-pension

[evadgib]

It wasn't well known until after Carson, which was too late for many on this board.

 

For HMG or supporters of the 'knew all about it' myth to be given any credibility they should have been told while still at school.

[Oxx]

11 minutes ago, evadgib said:

For HMG or supporters of the 'knew all about it' myth to be given any credibility they should have been told while still at school.

 

And there should have been an option to opt out of that part of National Insurance that went to funding pensions.

[dick dasterdly]

13 hours ago, Flustered said:

It is clearly stated on the DWP website and when you apply for your pension.

 

If people are too lazy to read it they can only blame themselves.

 

If you are retiring overseas, you obviously check your pension figures and when you do, you are told.

 

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/rates-of-state-pension

When planning to retire to Thailand (a decade or so ago), neither my husband or myself was particularly computer literate and so my husband 'phoned the tax people to confirm that his (company) pension wouldn't be taxed if we moved to Thailand.

 

The person he spoke to told him that it wouldn't be taxed.  We only found out after moving here that in fact, it would still be taxed.....

 

Fortunately, it wasn't a big problem - but the point is that (particularly in the past) people weren't as computer literate/able to understand website 'legalese' etc. and so relied more on talking to an individual from the authority concerned.

 

Even nowadays when most people are far more computer literate - MANY have problems working out the pertinent facts in their particular circumstances.

 

Insurance policies/contracts are a good comparison IMO.  The vast majority don't read them properly as they  quickly realise they don't understand them.

[nong38]

17 hours ago, Flustered said:

It is clearly stated on the DWP website and when you apply for your pension.

 

If people are too lazy to read it they can only blame themselves.

 

If you are retiring overseas, you obviously check your pension figures and when you do, you are told.

 

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/rates-of-state-pension

What you say about the site is correct when you claim the State Pension, but nothing was ever said or mentioned for all the years paying your NI contributions drawing your attention to the fact, nobody told me, no one wrote to me, I found out by pure chance in a pub having a conversation, which should not be the way DWP ensures that the people find out facts about important events and how they will be affected.

If you have already retired abroad before claiming why would you assume that anything would be any different from staying in the UK and you only find out when you claim.

There was nothing in the Pension Forecasts I received, I can best describe this the HMG having an ACE up the sleeve and having been trumped!

[orientalist]

On 2/26/2017 at 9:09 PM, Oxx said:

 

Are you able to provide even a single example of an individual who has paid tax bringing income into Thailand in the same tax year?

 

For that matter, are you able to provide a reference to where in the Thai tax code is says that this is the case?

 

As a Chartered Accountant and former Price Waterhouse tax specialist I'm sure that accuracy is important to you, so I really hope you can pin down the details.

 

I think this has been mentioned in a number of topics in Business forums of Thaivisa. The Revenue Dept says:

 

"Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand."

 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

 

As I recall, the debate has been about whether foreign income obtained prior to the current year is subject to tax when it is brought into Thailand. Various accounting/legal firms say it is not. Some members say they have seen this on the Revenue Dept's website in the past but that it is not there now. In any case, there seems to be an unwritten rule or practice that the Revenue dept doesn't harass foreigners on retirement visas. I, personally, don't bring my pension into Thailand in the current tax year - just in case. 

[Flustered]

The frozen pension argument has been going on for donkeys years.

 

I remember articles on it back in the 70s when there was an emigration drive to Australia. Parents joining their children were warned their pensions were frozen.

 

Anyone thinking of emigrating should have the common sense to check out basics like this first.

 

When you think of it logically, it's money leaving the UK and being spent in some one else's economy.

[evadgib]

Ok i'll bite...

Quote

I remember articles on it back in the 70s when there was an emigration drive to Australia. Parents joining their children were warned their pensions were frozen.

Can you back that up?

 

Quote

Anyone thinking of emigrating should have the common sense to check out basics like this first.

Agreed, but the problem is still there.

 

Quote

When you think of it logically, it's money leaving the UK and being spent in some one else's economy.

Unless or until Sainsburys, M&S etc can produce and deliver Hampers free of charge on a daily, weekly or monthly basis the decision as to where to spend their hard earned pensions lies entirely with the recipient.

Edited February 28, 2017 by evadgib

[steve187]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

 

When you think of it logically, it's money leaving the UK and being spent in some one else's economy.

so lets stop holidays abroad

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Ok i'll bite...

Can you back that up?

 

Agreed, but the problem is still there.

 

Unless or until Sainsburys, M&S etc can produce and deliver Hampers free of charge on a daily, weekly or monthly basis the decision as to where to spend their hard earned pensions lies entirely with the recipient.

Can I back that up?....Usual stupid question from someone who knows full well there was no internet or digital media in those days so finding anything is needle in a haystack and I never play the "can you back that up" game.

 

Anyone and I repeat anyone even having a remote thought about retiring to a foreign country should check with the various government department sites to ensure they know their entitlements. Not to do so and you only have yourselves to blame. I know that my State pension will be frozen the second I declare myself "non resident" and have budgeted accordingly.

 

Your last point show you have no knowledge of economics or how foreign exchange works with regards to countries budgets.

 

Wonder why I even bothered replying. Courtesy I suppose.

[evadgib]

Hmmm Loppylugs recycled?

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

3 hours ago, Flustered said:

The frozen pension argument has been going on for donkeys years.

 

I remember articles on it back in the 70s when there was an emigration drive to Australia. Parents joining their children were warned their pensions were frozen.

 

Anyone thinking of emigrating should have the common sense to check out basics like this first.

 

When you think of it logically, it's money leaving the UK and being spent in some one else's economy.

If they applied the frozen pension policy to everyone retiring abroad then there  would be a measure of justification to your argument, however not only do they freeze the state pension only in certain countries but they also count it as contributing towards taxable income. So if you apply logic, as you suggest, then it makes no sense.

Do you know of any other country that freezes the state pension of its nationals when they retire abroad ?

Does it make sense that a  Filipino nurse, who  worked in the UK NHS and then  retires to her home country will get her state pension increased annually but an English nurse who worked in the UK NHS and who retires to Thailand will get no annual increases. 

[Flustered]

10 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

If they applied the frozen pension policy to everyone retiring abroad then there  would be a measure of justification to your argument, however not only do they freeze the state pension only in certain countries but they also count it as contributing towards taxable income. So if you apply logic, as you suggest, then it makes no sense.

Do you know of any other country that freezes the state pension of its nationals when they retire abroad ?

Does it make sense that a  Filipino nurse, who  worked in the UK NHS and then  retires to her home country will get her state pension increased annually but an English nurse who worked in the UK NHS and who retires to Thailand will get no annual increases. 

Reason has nothing to do with it. I have never said I agree with it. My own wife is Singaporean, trained as an SRN and Midwife in the UK at Glasgow. She knows full well that when we move, her UK State pension will be frozen. The different country agreements are hard to understand but that has nothing to do with knowing about your pension rights.

 

For me, bottom line is that people should be responsible for their own actions as in finding out how they are affected when moving around.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

11 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Reason has nothing to do with it. I have never said I agree with it. My own wife is Singaporean, trained as an SRN and Midwife in the UK at Glasgow. She knows full well that when we move, her UK State pension will be frozen. The different country agreements are hard to understand but that has nothing to do with knowing about your pension rights.

 

For me, bottom line is that people should be responsible for their own actions as in finding out how they are affected when moving around.

Reason has everything to do with it. You were the one who introduced logic into the debate.

The proposition that everyone should be responsible for their own actions is itself an appeal to reason. I agree but they should also be entitled to rely on laws and regulations that are inherently fair and equitable and  communicated to them explicitly at the relevant time.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[Flustered]

2 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

Reason has everything to do with it. You were the one who introduced logic into the debate.

The proposition that everyone should be responsible for their own actions is itself an appeal to reason. I agree but they should also be entitled to rely on laws and regulations that are inherently fair and equitable and  communicated to them explicitly at the relevant time.

I fail to see why you are trying to turn this into an argument over semantics.

 

People should take responsibility and check up on important matters like pensions and not cry about it afterwards . The term "ignorance is no excuse" is as old as the bible (literally).