Late-Year Teenagers & Those In Their 20'S : What Are They Doing?

[NamKangMan]

I think we've all agreed that for the best opportunities they will most likely need to go back to the country of their Western Parent. That doesn't mean to say there aren't other options but most people will agree that having that as an available option is highly advisable.

That basically just leaves the second question whether you believe moving from one to the other to take advantage of these benefits will be detrimental to the children. I personally don't see that it will. As I have said before my kids have friends and relatives in the UK and they will always maintain a strong connection to the UK and they will always be aware as they are growing up that going back to the UK for such things is the norm, so it won't be a surprise. I don't see this fish out of water thing, unless your kids have had no contact with the West their whole life, then perhaps. Even then they will still just be the same as any other foreign student coming to the UK for the first time. Britain is full of them.

If staying in Thailand for further education and work is the only option you give your kids then yes, I think you will be doing them an injustice. That's not to say some people won't be able to make it work, but I personally wouldn't feel as if I had done any where near enough as a parent.

I'm a little confused now HKP.

"I think we've all agreed that for the best opportunities they will most likely need to go back to the country of their Western Parent." This is what I, and many others have been constantly stating. I agree with you that education at an accredited International School here is no problem, but like Seaeagle says, "What then?" I do not even see 50/50 young adults working in the finance sector in Bangkok. Sure, i'st a huge city, but I still do not see any whilst walking around there.

So, I'm gathering, if you want to keep the family unit togther, and the UK has the 15 years of age rule for free education (someone mentioned this - I'm not from the UK so I have no idea about it) like Seaeagle also states, and I have stated before, "Will you be moving back home in around 10 years time?" If you always knew this, why the question in your original post about projected crime and violence on the island in 10 to 15 years time when you knew you would not be here????

Edited March 25, 2012 by NamKangMan

[KarenBravo]

I know of graduates from Dulwich / BIS that were mixed blood.

Without exception, they all went back to their father's country (UK, NZ, Australia) to take up either tertiary education, or, complete high school.

After schooling was completed, all of them, without exception chose to make their lives in their adopted country.

They come back to Thailand for holidays, with and without their parents, but, none of them would dream of ever living permanently in Thailand.

[NamKangMan]

I know of graduates from Dulwich / BIS that were mixed blood.

Without exception, they all went back to their father's country (UK, NZ, Australia) to take up either tertiary education, or, complete high school.

After schooling was completed, all of them, without exception chose to make their lives in their adopted country.

They come back to Thailand for holidays, with and without their parents, but, none of them would dream of ever living permanently in Thailand.

A couple of quick questions KB.

In all cases, did the parents move back with them?

Do they see UK, NZ, Australia etc as "their country of origin - their nationality" or Thailand? I ask this because the individual is of mixed heritage, their parents are of mixed nationalities, their schooling (international school) was very mixed, but being on Phuket, their environment was Thai, with a lot of foreign tourists. I'm questioning who, and where, these kids now identify the most with, leaving career/money out of it.

Shame this thread couldn't have a couple of posts from them, telling of their experience, but like you say, they have no interest in the place.

Edited March 25, 2012 by NamKangMan

[KarenBravo]

These children grew up on Phuket and all went on brief holidays to UK/NZ/Australia?Europe?Canada.

At that time, they considered themselves Thai.

Once they had moved back to one of the above countries, along with their parents, it didn't take them long to consider themselves from there adopted new country. They were all proud of being half Thai and in most cases kept up with language and writing Thai through their respective mothers.

All of them now consider themselves Australians, New Zealanders etc. because that is where they live and that is where their friends are.

They all found it far easier to make new friends outside of Thailand as they were considered exotic.

Most of them had a few Thai friends whilst they lived in Thailand, but, when they got teased about not being 100% Thai, even their friends would have to join in the taunting (peer pressure).

All of them have had their eyes opened by living in the Western world. They now laugh at the driving style in Thailand, they laugh at the "stupid" concept of Face and deplore corruption.

As I said before, they are all proud to be part Thai, but, they aren't proud of Thailand.

Wild horses wouldn't drag them back here after they have had a taste of the West.

[HongKongPhooey]

I'm a little confused now HKP.

"I think we've all agreed that for the best opportunities they will most likely need to go back to the country of their Western Parent." This is what I, and many others have been constantly stating. I agree with you that education at an accredited International School here is no problem, but like Seaeagle says, "What then?" I do not even see 50/50 young adults working in the finance sector in Bangkok. Sure, i'st a huge city, but I still do not see any whilst walking around there.

So, I'm gathering, if you want to keep the family unit togther, and the UK has the 15 years of age rule for free education (someone mentioned this - I'm not from the UK so I have no idea about it) like Seaeagle also states, and I have stated before, "Will you be moving back home in around 10 years time?" If you always knew this, why the question in your original post about projected crime and violence on the island in 10 to 15 years time when you knew you would not be here????

You're still confused 'NKM'. Now why doesn't that surprise me.

So it's just you and many others that have been saying it is it? I've never said it as well no? Are you quite sure about that?

My kids may want to study in the UK

I don't understand why you are determined to overlook the possibility they have of working/training on both sides of the world, as is their right.

My kids will always know growing up that Thailand is a great place to have a decent quality of life but the West is a better place to further your education and start a career

Going back to the West to take advantage of what it has to offer is just a normal part of a 50/50 kids life

Just a few of the many times I've said it, so why does it perplex you so that I said it in my last post as well?

If you read my OP in the other thread you will see that I said my concerns were for 10 years time (you have now decided to make that 10-15 years time) when my oldest will be 14!! I have never expressed a concern for my grown up kids or for their career or job opportunities. As long as they know where the airport is, as I do, we will all be just fine.

I have always said my concerns were for their safety and the ability to have the levels of freedom kids need at the ages of 11-17. Not that the UK is particularly safe, but I fear Phuket may be a lot worse, and perhaps too bad.

That is and always has been my concern. I don't share many of the other concerns that people have raised and have done my best to explain why. If you refuse to read my posts, and comprehend what I'm saying and insist on going round in circles and trying rather weakly to catch me out, then I have no desire to waist any more time discussing it with you. And seeing as it isn't something you or 'LivinLOS' will ever need to worry about personally I suggest there are probably better ways for you to spend your time as well.

[HongKongPhooey]

These children grew up on Phuket and all went on brief holidays to UK/NZ/Australia?Europe?Canada.

At that time, they considered themselves Thai.

Once they had moved back to one of the above countries, along with their parents, it didn't take them long to consider themselves from there adopted new country. They were all proud of being half Thai and in most cases kept up with language and writing Thai through their respective mothers.

All of them now consider themselves Australians, New Zealanders etc. because that is where they live and that is where their friends are.

They all found it far easier to make new friends outside of Thailand as they were considered exotic.

Most of them had a few Thai friends whilst they lived in Thailand, but, when they got teased about not being 100% Thai, even their friends would have to join in the taunting (peer pressure).

All of them have had their eyes opened by living in the Western world. They now laugh at the driving style in Thailand, they laugh at the "stupid" concept of Face and deplore corruption.

As I said before, they are all proud to be part Thai, but, they aren't proud of Thailand.

Wild horses wouldn't drag them back here after they have had a taste of the West.

You know what these kids think about corruption!! They've told you or are you guessing?

I don't see any real problems with that 'story'. Doesn't seem like a terrible life to me, quite the opposite.

A few things that stand out though. Why did they consider themselves Thai when they were living in Thailand? Their father (assuming it was the father that was Western) can't of had a very strong influence on them.

Why did they have their eyes opened by living in the West? Regular holidays weren't enough for them to be au fait with the West?

Are you implying that these kids did or didn't have a good life and everything did or didn't work out fine for them? To me everything sounds fine.

[KarenBravo]

A few things that stand out though. Why did they consider themselves Thai when they were living in Thailand?

If you can't figure that out, you don't have much insight into how children think.

[HongKongPhooey]

A few things that stand out though. Why did they consider themselves Thai when they were living in Thailand?

If you can't figure that out, you don't have much insight into how children think.

But they weren't Thai were they! If they thought they were Thai it's because they were taught or allowed to think of themselves that way as they were growing up. I don't see how an English or American father could possibly be heavily involved in raising their children and the kids grow up thinking of themselves as completely Thai, just because they happen to live in Thailand. That makes no sense.

In the other thread, out of 7 mixed race kids you know of, you said all but one went bad and was involved in drugs and violence.

I think perhaps the people you mix with are a bit different to the people I mix with, so maybe comparing their kids to mine is a bit pointless.

Perhaps if you're an oil worker working away from your kids for long periods or something similar, or you are a crap parent, then that's how they could start to think of themselves as being Thai. Otherwise I am at a loss to figure it out. My insight in to how my children and all the other 50/50 kids I know is just fine. My insight in to how the kids you were talking about were raised however, is a little hazy to say the least.

I honestly think if we could meet or learn a lot more about these parents you know of and knew what their life styles were, then everything would suddenly become very clear!

I also find it very interesting that all three or four people on this thread that have been arguing the negative aspects of raising kids in Thailand don't have 50/50 kids and I'm fairly sure none of them even have kids at all!! They've also all been people that have been very negative of Thailand/Phuket/Thai people over the years despite it being the place they have chosen to live. A coincidence or a common occurring theme?

[NamKangMan]

@ HKP

Not trying to "catch anyone out" and I'm only following you in the circles you are going around in. We are talking about what's best for the kids, NOT WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE, remember?

Anyway, back to your original question, I seriously see Phuket becoming another Pattaya, but worse, because Phuket governance is administered by the 10 families that have all the power and all the wealth here, and we all know what a great job they have been doing. :) :)

There were three police arrested in Bangkok the other day with a very large amount of drugs in their possession. Considering you have to "buy a transfer to Phuket" I can only imagine what certain people, in certain positions, are up to here.

Currently, as a parent, I would think your biggest fear should be the roads here. You could be taking your kids to school in a new, strong, safe, 4WD, but that doesn't stop the minivan, bus or truck driver who is strung out on yah ba to stay awake, or the foreigner who is very drunk, from crashing into you at high speed.

[Shot]

Anything is possible.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/543555-phuket-model-crowned-miss-thailand-world-2012/page__pid__5166968#entry5166968

[HongKongPhooey]

Anything is possible.

http://www.thaivisa....68#entry5166968

I want my kids to embrace Thai culture, but I draw the line at my boys wanting to be beauty queens!!

[Peterocket]

@ HKP

Not trying to "catch anyone out" and I'm only following you in the circles you are going around in. We are talking about what's best for the kids, NOT WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE, remember?

Anyway, back to your original question, I seriously see Phuket becoming another Pattaya, but worse, because Phuket governance is administered by the 10 families that have all the power and all the wealth here, and we all know what a great job they have been doing.

There were three police arrested in Bangkok the other day with a very large amount of drugs in their possession. Considering you have to "buy a transfer to Phuket" I can only imagine what certain people, in certain positions, are up to here.

Currently, as a parent, I would think your biggest fear should be the roads here. You could be taking your kids to school in a new, strong, safe, 4WD, but that doesn't stop the minivan, bus or truck driver who is strung out on yah ba to stay awake, or the foreigner who is very drunk, from crashing into you at high speed.

I can imagine that sitting down for a beer for you would be one of the most depressing things I have ever done. At present I cycle a lot, drive and walk in Phuket without any particular fear. In fact in all the years of driving here I have never had any problem on the roads. However I could imagine after sitting with you for 5 or more minutes I would be fearing for mine and my families life and questioning whether I could make it back to my house without fear of death from the savage locals.

[NamKangMan]

@ HKP

Not trying to "catch anyone out" and I'm only following you in the circles you are going around in. We are talking about what's best for the kids, NOT WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE, remember?

Anyway, back to your original question, I seriously see Phuket becoming another Pattaya, but worse, because Phuket governance is administered by the 10 families that have all the power and all the wealth here, and we all know what a great job they have been doing.

There were three police arrested in Bangkok the other day with a very large amount of drugs in their possession. Considering you have to "buy a transfer to Phuket" I can only imagine what certain people, in certain positions, are up to here.

Currently, as a parent, I would think your biggest fear should be the roads here. You could be taking your kids to school in a new, strong, safe, 4WD, but that doesn't stop the minivan, bus or truck driver who is strung out on yah ba to stay awake, or the foreigner who is very drunk, from crashing into you at high speed.

I can imagine that sitting down for a beer for you would be one of the most depressing things I have ever done. At present I cycle a lot, drive and walk in Phuket without any particular fear. In fact in all the years of driving here I have never had any problem on the roads. However I could imagine after sitting with you for 5 or more minutes I would be fearing for mine and my families life and questioning whether I could make it back to my house without fear of death from the savage locals.

I could imagine sitting down for a beer with you and thinking how incredibly naive and/or oblivious to the dangers here you must be. Thinking you are probably sending big money up to Issan every month, and paying for a sick buffalo that doesn't exist. But of course, no one here does that, right? You don't see these people here, everyday, it's all a myth, right? Do I personally dwell on it, no, but it does happen, as we all know.

Next time you are at a bar, having a beer, keep an eye out for the drunk tourist, or expat, that staggers out of the bar and hops on a bike to go home, or to the next bar. I'm sure you've thought to yourself, "Silly boy." Now picture him crashing in to bicycle rider, like yourself, or another motorbike. But of course, that doesn't happen here either, does it? It certainly couldn't happen to you, could it? No one could possible crash into a 7/11 here, right? Big coach buses could not run out of brakes and crash off Patong Hil, right? Taxis driving from the airport do not hit buffalo on the road, right? It just doesn't happen, right? It's all just "co-incidents" right? How do you get home after drinking one too many, or with impaired judgement????????

I've never had a problem driving/riding here either, but I have gone past many accidents, some obviously fatal. We've seen a particularly bad high season just go by with a big jump in road death. Just about daily, we read of more fatalities in the PG. What about the many more accidents with major injuries like paraplegia, that don't get published? Should it depress you, no. Does it depress the friends and relatives of the desceased, yes. Should you live you life wrapped up in cotton wool, no. I'm not religious, but I believe when it's your time to go - it's your time to go, but all I'm saying is driving/riding on the roads here comes with a higher risk than many other places on the planet. You make it sound like I don't go to the beach for fear of another tsunami or I don't go to Bangla Road for fear of another Bali style attack. There's nothing wrong with stating the higher risk on the roads here for anyone who may google, "Riding a motorbike on Phuket." The Thaivisa website is not just for members - it's public information. Information on these forums could save someone getting ripped off, injured or killed. That's a "positive" thing, right? Is it therefore possible, that by drawing attention to the negatives here, you are doing a positive thing???? Of course, we could just strictly keep this forum to "Where to buy marmite" style posts, but it would get pretty boring, wouldn't it?

Lack of proper public transport, poor road surfaces, poor maintainence of vehicles, corrupt police, no proper licencing, alcohol and/or drugs, tourists unfamiliar with the roads etc all contribute to this risk. The OP asked about crime on the island, in my opinion, currently, motor vehicle accidents poses a bigger risk to us all, rather than crime. Can you take that as being a "positive statement" about crime here? No "savage locals" to worry about. There's no need to get depressed about it - just know the risk exists and try to minimise your exposure to it. Many of us are doing this here, in our everyday life, without even knowing we are doing it. We have adapted - but the risk still remains.

Edited March 27, 2012 by NamKangMan

[Peterocket]

I could imagine sitting down for a beer with you and thinking how incredibly naive and/or oblivious to the dangers here you must be. Thinking you are probably sending big money up to Issan every month, and paying for a sick buffalo that doesn't exist. But of course, no one here does that, right? You don't see these people here, everyday, it's all a myth, right? Do I personally dwell on it, no, but it does happen, as we all know.

Next time you are at a bar, having a beer, keep an eye out for the drunk tourist, or expat, that staggers out of the bar and hops on a bike to go home, or to the next bar. I'm sure you've thought to yourself, "Silly boy." Now picture him crashing in to bicycle rider, like yourself, or another motorbike. But of course, that doesn't happen here either, does it? It certainly couldn't happen to you, could it? No one could possible crash into a 7/11 here, right? Big coach buses could not run out of brakes and crash off Patong Hil, right? Taxis driving from the airport do not hit buffalo on the road, right? It just doesn't happen, right? It's all just "co-incidents" right? How do you get home after drinking one too many, or with impaired judgement????????

I've never had a problem driving/riding here either, but I have gone past many accidents, some obviously fatal. We've seen a particularly bad high season just go by with a big jump in road death. Just about daily, we read of more fatalities in the PG. What about the many more accidents with major injuries like paraplegia, that don't get published? Should it depress you, no. Does it depress the friends and relatives of the desceased, yes. Should you live you life wrapped up in cotton wool, no. I'm not religious, but I believe when it's your time to go - it's your time to go, but all I'm saying is driving/riding on the roads here comes with a higher risk than many other places on the planet. You make it sound like I don't go to the beach for fear of another tsunami or I don't go to Bangla Road for fear of another Bali style attack. There's nothing wrong with stating the higher risk on the roads here for anyone who may google, "Riding a motorbike on Phuket." The Thaivisa website is not just for members - it's public information. Information on these forums could save someone getting ripped off, injured or killed. That's a "positive" thing, right? Is it therefore possible, that by drawing attention to the negatives here, you are doing a positive thing???? Of course, we could just strictly keep this forum to "Where to buy marmite" style posts, but it would get pretty boring, wouldn't it?

Lack of proper public transport, poor road surfaces, poor maintainence of vehicles, corrupt police, no proper licencing, alcohol and/or drugs, tourists unfamiliar with the roads etc all contribute to this risk. The OP asked about crime on the island, in my opinion, currently, motor vehicle accidents poses a bigger risk to us all, rather than crime. Can you take that as being a "positive statement" about crime here? No "savage locals" to worry about. There's no need to get depressed about it - just know the risk exists and try to minimise your exposure to it. Many of us are doing this here, in our everyday life, without even knowing we are doing it. We have adapted - but the risk still remains.

If drunk farang have drunken accidents I dont particularly care, it's there own risk. Same as expat farang who have girlfriends 35 years younger than them and send hoards of money up north, they know what they are paying for and again I don't really care or let it bother me.

Scaremongering and portraying a very bleak image of Phuket is not a positive thing. If you think your posts are positive I would have to disagree...How many of the 5.3 million tourists coming to Phuket each year experience the issues you point out...5,000 per year? That would be 0.09% of the tourists.

We've had this conversation a few times though, I guess that's what forums are for though eh.

[NamKangMan]

I could imagine sitting down for a beer with you and thinking how incredibly naive and/or oblivious to the dangers here you must be. Thinking you are probably sending big money up to Issan every month, and paying for a sick buffalo that doesn't exist. But of course, no one here does that, right? You don't see these people here, everyday, it's all a myth, right? Do I personally dwell on it, no, but it does happen, as we all know.

Next time you are at a bar, having a beer, keep an eye out for the drunk tourist, or expat, that staggers out of the bar and hops on a bike to go home, or to the next bar. I'm sure you've thought to yourself, "Silly boy." Now picture him crashing in to bicycle rider, like yourself, or another motorbike. But of course, that doesn't happen here either, does it? It certainly couldn't happen to you, could it? No one could possible crash into a 7/11 here, right? Big coach buses could not run out of brakes and crash off Patong Hil, right? Taxis driving from the airport do not hit buffalo on the road, right? It just doesn't happen, right? It's all just "co-incidents" right? How do you get home after drinking one too many, or with impaired judgement????????

I've never had a problem driving/riding here either, but I have gone past many accidents, some obviously fatal. We've seen a particularly bad high season just go by with a big jump in road death. Just about daily, we read of more fatalities in the PG. What about the many more accidents with major injuries like paraplegia, that don't get published? Should it depress you, no. Does it depress the friends and relatives of the desceased, yes. Should you live you life wrapped up in cotton wool, no. I'm not religious, but I believe when it's your time to go - it's your time to go, but all I'm saying is driving/riding on the roads here comes with a higher risk than many other places on the planet. You make it sound like I don't go to the beach for fear of another tsunami or I don't go to Bangla Road for fear of another Bali style attack. There's nothing wrong with stating the higher risk on the roads here for anyone who may google, "Riding a motorbike on Phuket." The Thaivisa website is not just for members - it's public information. Information on these forums could save someone getting ripped off, injured or killed. That's a "positive" thing, right? Is it therefore possible, that by drawing attention to the negatives here, you are doing a positive thing???? Of course, we could just strictly keep this forum to "Where to buy marmite" style posts, but it would get pretty boring, wouldn't it?

Lack of proper public transport, poor road surfaces, poor maintainence of vehicles, corrupt police, no proper licencing, alcohol and/or drugs, tourists unfamiliar with the roads etc all contribute to this risk. The OP asked about crime on the island, in my opinion, currently, motor vehicle accidents poses a bigger risk to us all, rather than crime. Can you take that as being a "positive statement" about crime here? No "savage locals" to worry about. There's no need to get depressed about it - just know the risk exists and try to minimise your exposure to it. Many of us are doing this here, in our everyday life, without even knowing we are doing it. We have adapted - but the risk still remains.

If drunk farang have drunken accidents I dont particularly care, it's there own risk. Same as expat farang who have girlfriends 35 years younger than them and send hoards of money up north, they know what they are paying for and again I don't really care or let it bother me.

Scaremongering and portraying a very bleak image of Phuket is not a positive thing. If you think your posts are positive I would have to disagree...How many of the 5.3 million tourists coming to Phuket each year experience the issues you point out...5,000 per year? That would be 0.09% of the tourists.

We've had this conversation a few times though, I guess that's what forums are for though eh.

Bingo - the penny has dropped. Yes, that's what forums are for.

If I was to post, "Do not rent a jet-ski when you go to Phuket for a holiday." Am I being negative and "scaremongering" or is it a pertinent post, aimed at saving someone's holiday money by them avoiding being scammed, or at least informing them the scam exists and allowing them to make an informed decision as to the risk involved? If they take the advice, and therefore have no risk of being exposed to the scam, is that not a positive post, resulting in a positive outcome???? Gaining knowledge of the scam, via the internet, is that not a positive thing?

You may use statistics and say, "But only one person every twenty get scammed with the jet-skis, that's only 5%." Does that make it acceptable to take the risk? For some, yes, they will take the chance, for others, no, it's not worth the risk. It will be an individual's choice, based on many factors, but denying the scam exists is to paint a "rosey" picture of Phuket that is false, because we do know that many get scammed on the jet-skis. Now, when talking about the roads here, I believe many do not have a true idea, or refuse to admit, that the risk of being involved in an accident here is higher than what they think, or want to believe.

Where I have difficultly in your logic Peterocket, is what if that drunk farang crashes into you, while you are leisurely riding your bicycle, and badly injures you or kills you???? Do you seriously think it's always only the person at fault who is always killed or injured? Many times it's an innocent party. Should you dwell on it, and not ride your bicycle, no, but the roads are dangerous here, for the reasons I have mentioned above. I walk a lot, ride the motorbike sometimes and rarely drive here. To date, I have not been involved in an accident. This is my way of minimising my exposure to the risk.

Where I fully see you logic is with the farang who has a girlfriend 35 years younger, feeding him bullsh*t and he keeps paying. I agree with you on that one. The only person he is affecting his himself, and he will face the consequences of his actions, which should not have a negative impact on anyone else.

However, WE ALL SHARE THE ROADS HERE, and that means that a young Thai guy, or farang tourist or expat, who is drunk, stoned or high on drugs, is going to be coming in the opposite direction to you, at around 60 kmph. You may be doing the right thing, he is not - I would argue that he is putting your life at risk, as well as his own.

I think it would be poor advice to give a first timer here to say, "Yeh, just rent a motorbike. Leave your passport with the hire shop. You'll be fine, have a great holiday." To disagree with a post like that, would that be "scaremongering" or "painting a very bleak image of Phuket?" I would think not, and the positive just may well be saving his life, or that of another person.

Edited March 27, 2012 by NamKangMan

[Peterocket]

Where I have difficultly in your logic Peterocket, is what if that drunk farang crashes into you, while you are leisurely riding your bicycle, and badly injures you or kills you???? Do you seriously think it's always only the person at fault who is always killed or injured? Many times it's an innocent party.

Where I fully see you logic is with the farang who has a girlfriend 35 years younger, feeding him bullsh*t and he keeps paying. I agree with you on that one. The only person he is affecting his himself, and he will face the consequences of his actions, which should not have a negative impact on anyone else.

However, WE ALL SHARE THE ROADS HERE, and that means that a young Thai guy, or farang tourist or expat, who is drunk, stoned or high on drugs, is going to be coming in the opposite direction to you, at around 60 kmph. You may be doing the right thing, he is not - I would argue that he is putting your life at risk, as well as his own.

If a drunk crashes into me and I die then so be it. Same as any other country in the world. Do you go on every countries forums and post the same obvious information.

Personaly for bikes of any type I think the roads are much safer here...lots of quiet back roads, drivers that expect to see people on bikes and are used to how to share the roads with them. Unlike the U.S or UK where bikes are generally seen as a complete hazard and annoyance to other road users.

Cycled up to Thai Muang a couple of months ago and for most of the route there wasn't another vehicle in sight. Would recommend it to anyone.

[HongKongPhooey]

Cycled up to Thai Muang a couple of months ago and for most of the route there wasn't another vehicle in sight. Would recommend it to anyone.

That's just it people who moan on forums will be very unlikely to partake in such things. 'NKM' admits to not knowing about or ever having seen the BIS. Yet I remember clearly driving down that road past the school on my very first 3 week holiday in Phuket over 12 years ago. So I had explored more of phuket on my first holiday than 'NKM' has in the however many years he's been living here! Yet he's an authority on how bad the island is. How does that work exactly?

If you really want to tell yourself that you make these posts solely to help other people enjoy their holiday then that's fine. Whatever get's you through the day. I suspect the truth is very different. Why would you need to mention such things in so many threads? Do you believe when people Google 'Holiday in Thailand' your posts are at the top of the pile? The things you point out have been pointed out by thousands of people across thousands of media outlets, thousands of times before, do you really think you are making the slightest difference to anybodies understanding of these topics? If you do then I would repeat, 'What ever gets you through the day'. You are kidding yourself if you truly believe that you are both increasing people's knowledge, and that's honestly why you make the posts in the first place.

Your posts are almost identical to the ones 'LivinLOS' used to make, and the good Samaritan excuse is word for word the same way he used to justify it. The thing is we all knew why 'LivinLOS' used to make those posts and it was revealed when he decided to move away. Living in Phuket wasn't for him any more so he vented his frustrations until he eventually moved. I have a huge suspicion that you will do the same some day. The reason you make the posts you do is straight forward. Quite simply, I don't think you like Phuket as much as other people do, and that's all there is to it.

In this and the other thread, you started off by saying that the education was sub standard. You then quickly conceded that the education was fine after you discovered the International schools. You then moved on to their being no jobs or prospects on the island for adults. I agreed with you and explained that I don't think it's a problem because studying/working in Europe I consider to be perfectly normal for someone of dual nationality. So you then moved on to the family unit being separated, to which I explained I would be more than happy to move back to the UK to support my kids when the time came. So I've pretty much answered every post you made with a logical common sense response. So where do you go from there? I'll tell you where you went, right back to the 'there's no jobs or prospects in Phuket' argument, right back where you started. You then repeat this exact same thing several more times before finally moving on to jet skis and drunk driving Farang. And then you have the nerve to say that it's me going around in circles!!

A thread about expat teenagers has been turned in to a thread about Jet ski scams by someone who doesn't even have any kids. (Not young 50/50 ones anyway) but apparently it's all O.K because it's important the word get's out there to save people's holidays. Perhaps you should wear a cape while you are typing.

P.S I know 'NKM' will want to reply to this post as is his nature and I guess is his right. Just to let the mods know I won't be continuing this line of discussion any further. I want this thread to stay open so anyone who actually has kids and has anything to share may do so in the future.

[LivinLOS]

Your posts are almost identical to the ones 'LivinLOS' used to make, and the good Samaritan excuse is word for word the same way he used to justify it. The thing is we all knew why 'LivinLOS' used to make those posts and it was revealed when he decided to move away. Living in Phuket wasn't for him any more so he vented his frustrations until he eventually moved. I have a huge suspicion that you will do the same some day. The reason you make the posts you do is straight forward. Quite simply, I don't think you like Phuket as much as other people do, and that's all there is to it.

You make it sound like someone has an agenda, when they see the island spiraling into ever increasing crime, traffic, development, corruption and over population ?? The sensible thing to do when you have your head out of the sand, and feel the increasing unfriendliness of the locals, the increased common practice of rips offs, and general decline.. Is to leave. Why make a time and money investment in a place thats in decline.

If someone wants to put their head in the sand, pretend that every hillside on the west cost isnt slowly being over taken by white box homes and vested interests making land grabs from the highest political families to the lowest recent non Phuketian arrival demanding protection money to park your car or bike on the public street ?? well thats up to you. Me, I recognized it, made the choice to look for pastures greener, and found them. I didnt want to sit in a place that was turning ugly pretending it was all great. I had many great years there, a wonderful marriage to a Phuket girl, a superb villa and for a while quality of life. But those upsides gradually got undermined by crime, rip offs, non stop pestering to separate you from your money, scam artists and fake monks knocking on your door once every couple of weeks, and a general vibe of constantly being on the defensive, can I park my car in that space without someone knifing the tyres, can I fill up on gas without the pump jockey starting the refill at 200b, did I just get my change, did they stuff 2 bills into my drink pot, etc etc etc.. The psychic weight of all that guarding against predatory action adds up. No wonder so many of the more well off will themselves into an ivory tower.

If you post facts as they happened (no one believed when my buddies had an attempted gunpoint robbery on the Surin Rd and shot at, but soon went quiet when the bet was put up huh ?) the 'its all good' crowd claim your merely running the place down, even when its factual information. When you go to pastures greener, your accused of having an agenda. Try attacking the message not the messenger, after all I am not the member whose already been banned from here and cant stay away !!

A thread about expat teenagers has been turned in to a thread about Jet ski scams by someone who doesn't even have any kids. (Not young 50/50 ones anyway) but apparently it's all O.K because it's important the word get's out there to save people's holidays. Perhaps you should wear a cape while you are typing.

But they are relevant as that is the society your talking about them growing into.. And you know what ? I just thought of a expat raised kid example for you !!!

Good old Jetski Jimmy !! The predatory thug at every Jetski scam.. Jimmys mum was with a Dutch guy if memory serves.. Jimmy spent a whole bunch of his youth growing up in Holland.

So we finally found one !!! We have your example of how an expat raised late teen early 20s turns out. Good old JJ.

[Valentine]

Reading Livin's post I can understand his reasons for moving away but I do not necessarily agree. <deleted> happens everywhere & you either deal with it or walk away. The scams, crime, have probably grown in direct proportion to the growth of Phuket but you learn to adapt & deal with it. When I fill up at a gas station I automatically check theyare putting in the amount I asked for, I keep an eye my bar tab although I have had padded bills in the distant past, I don't have any use for tuk tuks or jet skis, I know a fake monk when I see one or any other scam artist who comes calling at the gate. Basically one just needs to learn, adjust & get on with the positive aspects of life in Phuket.

[LivinLOS]

Sure, more power to you, I genuinely hope that the life style and location you choose is the right balance for you. I moved to a different phuket, at a different point on its development cycle. I found, for me, that my defense mechanisms for dealing with those issues, was interfering with my ability to integrate. Its part of that walling yourself into your ivory tower aspect I mentioned. I found, again for me, that living somewhere that I am treated less as a target of income, and theres more social integration between the Thais and farangs outweighs the beach and sailing. I simply prefer to live among more honest locals who try to cheat me less.

I left Phuket 18 months ago, at a point when I felt predated upon perhaps as much as once a week. In that time I havent had a single argument or cross word and am struggling to think of any rip off or scams thats even been attempted. The relaxation that comes with that, the relationships I have with my Thai neighbors and people I encounter is the payoff for me. Living in a social setup where I am not viewed as someones income stream is superb for me and re-energized my views of remaining in Asia. For me, it was the best thing I have done in years. I genuinely hope your strategies to maximize your own relative upsides work for you. Mine will not be right for you, as yours may not be right for me, I wouldnt however deny you your opinion or hold it in any less weight than anyone elses.

[Valentine]

Sure, more power to you, I genuinely hope that the life style and location you choose is the right balance for you. I moved to a different phuket, at a different point on its development cycle. I found, for me, that my defense mechanisms for dealing with those issues, was interfering with my ability to integrate. Its part of that walling yourself into your ivory tower aspect I mentioned. I found, again for me, that living somewhere that I am treated less as a target of income, and theres more social integration between the Thais and farangs outweighs the beach and sailing. I simply prefer to live among more honest locals who try to cheat me less.

I left Phuket 18 months ago, at a point when I felt predated upon perhaps as much as once a week. In that time I havent had a single argument or cross word and am struggling to think of any rip off or scams thats even been attempted. The relaxation that comes with that, the relationships I have with my Thai neighbors and people I encounter is the payoff for me. Living in a social setup where I am not viewed as someones income stream is superb for me and re-energized my views of remaining in Asia. For me, it was the best thing I have done in years. I genuinely hope your strategies to maximize your own relative upsides work for you. Mine will not be right for you, as yours may not be right for me, I wouldnt however deny you your opinion or hold it in any less weight than anyone elses.

I moved here when Bangla was 2 way dirt road & Royal Paradise Hotel was just being finished. Yes it was very different Phuket & one which I enjoyed immensely despite some early heartbreaks. I still enjoy Phuket but my lifestyle has changed. I am glad you are enjoying your lifestyle up north although I read the haze is really bad at times & would possibly be detrimental to my health.

[LivinLOS]

I moved here when Bangla was 2 way dirt road & Royal Paradise Hotel was just being finished. Yes it was very different Phuket & one which I enjoyed immensely despite some early heartbreaks. I still enjoy Phuket but my lifestyle has changed. I am glad you are enjoying your lifestyle up north although I read the haze is really bad at times & would possibly be detrimental to my health.

The haze is for sure a negative tho its made out to be more dramatic than it is. Luckily last year was so mild it barely happened and this year (when it was strong) I was in Cambodia for almost all of it. A perfect time to catch a beach break, hop to Bali or Sihanouk, take a sail charter or similar. As you say its all about finding a way to maximize your upsides, I found it hard to work around feeling constantly someones target.

But its wildly off topic now, lets get back to young adults growing up and living partly in the west like our good old Jetski Jimmy.

[stevenl]

I moved here when Bangla was 2 way dirt road & Royal Paradise Hotel was just being finished. Yes it was very different Phuket & one which I enjoyed immensely despite some early heartbreaks. I still enjoy Phuket but my lifestyle has changed. I am glad you are enjoying your lifestyle up north although I read the haze is really bad at times & would possibly be detrimental to my health.

The haze is for sure a negative tho its made out to be more dramatic than it is. Luckily last year was so mild it barely happened and this year (when it was strong) I was in Cambodia for almost all of it. A perfect time to catch a beach break, hop to Bali or Sihanouk, take a sail charter or similar. As you say its all about finding a way to maximize your upsides, I found it hard to work around feeling constantly someones target.

But its wildly off topic now, lets get back to young adults growing up and living partly in the west like our good old Jetski Jimmy.

Yes, Jimi, who according to you grew up in the west, Holland. So a perfect example of raising kids in Thailand.

[LivinLOS]

Seems he didnt get to spend his important late teen years there.. Tho he may have exaggerated how long he lived there and how much he went back and forth. I do remember something along those lines and that was why he had more language skills and fel into his role as jetski negotiator chasing real money.

The product of hanging out as a teenager in Phuket.. The opportunities for work and payoffs etc.

At least I found you an example.

Edited March 28, 2012 by LivinLOS

[stevenl]

At least I found you an example.

True, an example that indicates you'd better raise 50/50 kids in Thailand than in the west.

Here an example of a 50/50 kid who actually finished her high school on Phuket.

Edited March 28, 2012 by stevenl

[KarenBravo]

At least I found you an example.

True, an example that indicates you'd better raise 50/50 kids in Thailand than in the west.

Here an example of a 50/50 kid who actually finished her high school on Phuket.

Yes, using her looks, not brains.

Not a very good example for your case.

[LivinLOS]

At least I found you an example.

True, an example that indicates you'd better raise 50/50 kids in Thailand than in the west.

Here an example of a 50/50 kid who actually finished her high school on Phuket.

How do you get that ??

My understanding was he spent some childhood and schooling in Holland, but those all important teen years back to Phuket.

[LivinLOS]

At least I found you an example.

True, an example that indicates you'd better raise 50/50 kids in Thailand than in the west.

Here an example of a 50/50 kid who actually finished her high school on Phuket.

Yes, using her looks, not brains.

Not a very good example for your case.

And you will even see in one of my first posts on this subject..

What does a young expat kid, or a Luk Krung, do aside from try to make TV commercials ??

I guess shes one of the few who get to do the TV commercials route

[stevenl]

At least I found you an example.

True, an example that indicates you'd better raise 50/50 kids in Thailand than in the west.

Here an example of a 50/50 kid who actually finished her high school on Phuket.

How do you get that ??

My understanding was he spent some childhood and schooling in Holland, but those all important teen years back to Phuket.

What? I did not say anything about him growing up anywhere, you're the one who claimed he grew up in Holland "Good old Jetski Jimmy !! The predatory thug at every Jetski scam.. Jimmys mum was with a Dutch guy if memory serves.. Jimmy spent a whole bunch of his youth growing up in Holland." Your words, I only reacted to that.

Oh, and since it serves (at least possible) your case now the teen years are 'all important', or where that serves you better the 'late teen years are all important'.

[LivinLOS]

Thread title.. "Late-Year Teenagers & Those In Their 20'S : What Are They Doing"

Renting Jetskis is one answer.

All along the discussion has been about young adults, how they develop personalities and grow up.. Or what thread is this ??

Edited March 28, 2012 by LivinLOS