Counseling For Thai Wife

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Why is that crazy? I also do most of the dishes and general cleaning of my house. And we have a maid that comes in once a week to do the deep cleaning.

What does your wife/gf do?

Write up quotations, toy with Excel, make money, and buy food.

Edited March 15, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[rahi]

To OP, does she have any relatives or friends who you could talk to? Third person, who knows her might be best first option before rushing the white coats in. Describe the issue to this person and try to get him/her to "spy" wether it's mental or just you.

[Mestizo]

Why is that crazy? I also do most of the dishes and general cleaning of my house. And we have a maid that comes in once a week to do the deep cleaning.

What does your wife/gf do?

Write up quotations, toy with Excel, make money, and buy food.

As WTK alluded to, we both hold down full time jobs. She also handles most of the laundry, the cooking, manages the bills, and helps me with the yard work. I was raised to understand that marriages are a partnership. I have no problem with helping out around the house and doing my fair share. I also care enough about my girlfriend that I don't mind doing a bit more than my fair share so that she can have extra time to unwind, go shopping, or spend times with her friends.

I know she really appreciates how hard I work and how much I help out around the house. Because of this, any time I want to go out drinking or hang out with my friends, I don't get all the grief from her that alot of other expats get from their wives. Also she understands that Sunday is my day to rest and she handles all the errand running etc, without dragging me along.

Anyway, I know others will probably disagree with me, but I respect my Thai gf/ wife as a full partner in the relationship, and not as my personal maid/ slave.

-Mestizo

[sbk]

Derogatory post to women removed

OP may wish to post in Health forum asking for help on menopausal issues.

[Fishenough]

My single suggestion is think of ways to let her be herself. Possibly her feelings are somewhat like this: "I constantly do something for someone else and have lost who I am, and resent my husband for being content when I am so discontent".

About 2 years into our marriage I remember her doing a Dr Jekell to Mr. Hyde change where she told me that her outside persona was just an act to lure in unsuspecting farang.

I have a hard time believing that my wife put on 'a face' for twenty plus years, 3 kids and plenty of good times, before she went through her Dr Jekell to Mr Hyde change. My wife left last year, and after many months apart still continues to be emotionally abusive.

And change the word farang to man, it is such a common story; myself was shocked at, after going through a similar thing, the number of friends in Chiang Mai that went through exactly the same thing.

[doppa]

am i to assume there's no children involved, it certainly makes things somewhat simplier on all levels, you say 2 yrs into your marriage, so how long have you been together.

is this the first time you've publicly expressed your feelings, fears.

unless you can pursuade her to see a doc initially, you may have exhausted all your options, you obviously still care for her, and have a great deal of patience, but that will eventually diminish, this public plea may very well be the beginning of the end, if you know what i mean, find peace for yourself to enjoy what time you have left, very good luck my friend.

[LivinLOS]

Good luck, you sound like a decent person.. I being perhaps a less decent person, would struggle to have feelings for someone that showed me so little respect or decency.

It hasnt been said yet, but the fact that so often theres a financial motivation within a Thai farang coupling, means that its harder for them to leave us. My gut reaction is perhaps she wishes to leave, but financially cannot, building to this resentment and constant sniping.

Just my armchair quaterback / analyst version.

Seriously.. good luck with it..

[NancyL]

While the OP may think that his wife is the one with all the problems, it rarely is just one person who needs to change their behavior when there are problems in a marriage. If you do a google search on "marriage counseling Chiang Mai", you're going to see several options for places to go for assistance. These organizations are capable of handling cross-cultural marriages. Many of them are Christian-based, but some provide non-demoninational counseling.

Another option is to contact the CPE program at Chiang Mai University. This is a post-graduate training program in the humanities dept that trains people all types of counseling -- they have skills similar to social workers in the U.S. They are definitely non-denominational and most of the members of the program are Buddhist and Thai. They could provide two counselors, one western and one Thai to consult with the OP and his wife.

http://www.chiangmaicpe.org/

The counselor is going to ask both parties to check out any physical problems, such as menopause or other problems (like diabetes) that can cause angry behavior.

It's imperative that this counseling occur outside the home, in a neutral setting and both parties have to recognize they have a problem with their relationship and they personally need to make some changes to improve their situation.

Edited March 16, 2012 by NancyL

[connda]

I've had people PM me with similar stories. It seems that we are in a club with many members. There are things that can be very disturbing about women in the Thai culture. One of the things that I see commonly is Thai women treating there men like we're children to be nagged.

Many of us pulled our wives out of a financial hole and made their lives significantly better. You would think that they would be somewhat grateful. But it seems as though Thai women expect that once a man provides financial support, it is their "right" to have it. No gratitude -- in fact, probably the opposite -- eventually disdain and contempt. We show generosity and kindness. Our wives redefine the word "stingy" and show ruthlessness. I've seen it more than once with other Western men.

If my marriage does not work, I will never go down this road again. No support for any Thai woman. Ever! It's a lost cause. Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.

But until marriage ends, I will do my best to help pull her out of her emotional funk and engrained cultural stupidity. Underneath it all, I'm sure there is still a good woman if I can just get her to the surface. My friends and many in this forum may think I'm stupid. If extending compassion to another person is stupidity, so be it. It's just who I am.

[Payboy]

I remember her doing a Dr Jekell to Mr. Hyde

She wears the pants in your household then.

[connda]

Connda, Washing the dishes and cleaning the house,I think

you are the crazy one.

regards Worgeordie

Why is that crazy? I also do most of the dishes and general cleaning of my house. And we have a maid that comes in once a week to do the deep cleaning.

-Mestizo

Same here - exactly.

When I didn't have a wife, I did household chores like cleaning and washing dishes. I don't like living like a pig. When I first got married, I worked and the wife cleaned. Now, I'm retired. I have the time, so I clean.

So I figure that any single guy who thinks cleaning is "women's work" must live like a slob. If you're married, that's between you and your wife.

I choose to help. That may make me seem less of a man in your eyes -- you're welcome to your opinion. Even if it's a stupid opinion. My manhood doesn't have f*** to do with my cleaning habits. I cook too. I'm sure those who are questioning my "maleness" probably have a steady diet of "take out" and Hungry Man microwave dinners with the used container piled up in a disgusting heap in the insect infested rat-hole you call home.

Edited March 16, 2012 by connda

[connda]

I remember her doing a Dr Jekell to Mr. Hyde

She wears the pants in your household then.

I'm sure she likes to think so. I allow her that illusion.

[connda]

If she gives you nothing, what is the point of having a relationship with her? It sounds like she has so much emotional baggage that it would take several years of councelling and motivation for her to get to the bottom of herself...

Actually this started around menopause. She actually was different.

How long have you been together for?

I usually say that I am in a relationship because I feel better than being not in a relationship. If it changes and I feel better without, well then that's it.

However. If you love someone and have been together for may years, and then they suddenly develop a mental problem, you won't drop them like that. Hence my question.

Five years -- I have a vested interest in maintaining the relationship. I don't take marriage lightly. If I only wanted companionship, she'd still be my girlfriend -- or gone.

[connda]

If she gives you nothing, what is the point of having a relationship with her? It sounds like she has so much emotional baggage that it would take several years of councelling and motivation for her to get to the bottom of herself...

Actually this started around menopause. She actually was different.

So maybe you just have to get her through menopause and she will go back to the way she was before which I trust was okay.

Good luck. Before she can have counseling she has to acknowledge the need and be willing, even if it is just counseling about menopause. Does she have any Thai friends or family that could help? Thai ladies do achieve some peace talking with each other even if it is not directly talking about the problem.

Yeah, her best friend went through something similar. Extreme anger for over 3 years. However, her best friend isn't a real fan of Western expats. And her husband is a nice enough guy. Works for an English speaking international company. But I've talked to him before and he wasn't much help.

[CMHomeboy78]

Your complaints will be all too familiar to men married a long time to Thai women.

Now you know why the "mia-noi" has always been such a prominent feature of the domestic scene here among so many Thais of all classes.

That's the Thai solution to the problem. And it seems to work as well as any alternatives I've seen.

Those with moral, religious, or economic issues precluding it would want to solve the problem at it's source... that is, the "mia luang" herself.

I wish I could help you. Nothing has ever really worked for me.

My wife is often, but certainly not always, in a foul mood. At least towards me. She's usually OK with others.

We have two grown daughters with successful careers living on their own. So I'm the only one around who is traditionally acceptable to lay into.

The role of Whipping-Boy or Scapegoat doesn't come naturally to me and I resent it.

But I have a life of my own doing creative artwork, and there are other things I can solace myself with until the storm clouds blow over and the sun comes out again.

[connda]

Connda, Washing the dishes and cleaning the house,I think

you are the crazy one.

regards Worgeordie

Why is that crazy? I also do most of the dishes and general cleaning of my house. And we have a maid that comes in once a week to do the deep cleaning.

-Mestizo

Same here - exactly.

When I didn't have a wife, I did household chores like cleaning and washing dishes. I don't like living like a pig. When I first got married, I worked and the wife cleaned. Now, I'm retired. I have the time, so I clean.

So I figure that any single guy who thinks cleaning is "women's work" must live like a slob. If you're married, that's between you and your wife.

I choose to help. That may make me seem less of a man in your eyes -- you're welcome to your opinion. Even if it's a stupid opinion. My manhood doesn't have f*** to do with my cleaning habits. I cook too. I'm sure those who are questioning my "maleness" probably have a steady diet of "take out" and Hungry Man microwave dinners with the used container piled up in a disgusting heap in the insect infested rat-hole you call home.

[connda]

If she gives you nothing, what is the point of having a relationship with her? It sounds like she has so much emotional baggage that it would take several years of councelling and motivation for her to get to the bottom of herself...

Actually this started around menopause. She actually was different.

I can't quote details but my understanding is that in the last 5 - 10 years there are massive improvements in medications for menopause induced problems.

In fact a female relative displayed quite a few of the items the OP mentioned, and after just a few days on medication she was a changed woman. From memory she took the medication for about six months.

All depends of course on whether you endorse long terms medications, etc.

I guess (repeat guess - I'm not a doctor, and I strongly oppose the notion armchair / untrained analysts) her internal chemistry is unbalanced from time to time and you see the results of this, but for her it could well be a living hell with she right now can't control, possibly with remorse as part of the 'cycle'.

Good luck.

with remorse

Good luck to the OP.

She's been going to her general practitioner on a regular basis. He's a really good, caring guy. However, treatment for Thais insured under that universal health plan pretty much limits the medication that can be used, i.e., estrogen replacement. She does take that, and we do follow-up with yearly breast exams at a private hospital. But I hear what you're saying. I'll research that angle. It may be worth taking her to a endocrinologist at a private hospital if new treatments are available. I'll look into this. Thanks for the suggestion!

Edited March 16, 2012 by connda

[connda]

To OP, does she have any relatives or friends who you could talk to? Third person, who knows her might be best first option before rushing the white coats in. Describe the issue to this person and try to get him/her to "spy" wether it's mental or just you.

I've been with her five years and have seen her change. It's not just me. She only has one "best" friend. However, her and her husband are of limited help. Been there, done that.

She also has had Thai women friends over the years that is like a revolving door. She'll make friends, hang out for a few months, and using her own words, "Kick them out!" With the exception of her "best" friend, my wife truly has felt superior to all the women she befriends. So, she really doesn't have friends.

Her mom is a vicious psycho, which is part of my wife's problem. Her siblings are equally screwed up. She only talks to her youngest sister and she only speaks Thai. Communicating would be a problem.

I already explored these option, which is why I started considering alternate options, like a psychologist.

[connda]

Why is that crazy? I also do most of the dishes and general cleaning of my house. And we have a maid that comes in once a week to do the deep cleaning.

What does your wife/gf do?

Write up quotations, toy with Excel, make money, and buy food.

As WTK alluded to, we both hold down full time jobs. She also handles most of the laundry, the cooking, manages the bills, and helps me with the yard work. I was raised to understand that marriages are a partnership. I have no problem with helping out around the house and doing my fair share. I also care enough about my girlfriend that I don't mind doing a bit more than my fair share so that she can have extra time to unwind, go shopping, or spend times with her friends.

I know she really appreciates how hard I work and how much I help out around the house. Because of this, any time I want to go out drinking or hang out with my friends, I don't get all the grief from her that alot of other expats get from their wives. Also she understands that Sunday is my day to rest and she handles all the errand running etc, without dragging me along.

Anyway, I know others will probably disagree with me, but I respect my Thai gf/ wife as a full partner in the relationship, and not as my personal maid/ slave.

-Mestizo

I work from the same premise. Unfortunately I don't get the respect or the understanding in return. It's very one way. You're a lucky guy to have that level of relationship. That's what I'd like, and that's why I do what I do. It's just unfortunate that it is so "one way".

[WhiteCadillac]

If I were you I would just leave her. Keep it simple stupid.

[HaleySabai]

If a man speaks his mind in a forest and no women hears him.....is he still wrong?

The Thai-character/psyche can be dangerously "different", as we all know. I would seriously consider finding the 'back-door' before her condition deteriorates into a psychotic-episode,with you in it !

The Buddhist-way is to deny. A life time of suppressed emotion will eventually surface and be projected onto the world in any number of forms ranging from mild -irritation to full-blown murderous rage.

The disney-land level of social Buddhism with its glittering forms and mindless magic does nothing more than re-affirm the forms of social protocol. The higher-forms of Buddhism where inner observation through meditation has been known to be profoundly therapeutic is a common refuge for many Thai-people who suffer from duress. This can be found in the quite-tude of ones home,a forest Wat or a traditional meditation retreat centre.

If you could have a friend or family member of your wife willing to accompany her to an appropriate Wat for a week to 10 days,could be helpful.She can immerse herself in a changed atmosphere that resonates most near and dear to her own heart and cultural identity.

Although I suspect her issues are more likely to do with age (menopause)and bio-chemical brain functions,one should not over look the powerful effects of stillness and silence can have on the human-psyche,especially when it is so intrinsic to the culture itself.

[connda]

My single suggestion is think of ways to let her be herself. Possibly her feelings are somewhat like this: "I constantly do something for someone else and have lost who I am, and resent my husband for being content when I am so discontent".

About 2 years into our marriage I remember her doing a Dr Jekell to Mr. Hyde change where she told me that her outside persona was just an act to lure in unsuspecting farang.

I have a hard time believing that my wife put on 'a face' for twenty plus years, 3 kids and plenty of good times, before she went through her Dr Jekell to Mr Hyde change. My wife left last year, and after many months apart still continues to be emotionally abusive.

And change the word farang to man, it is such a common story; myself was shocked at, after going through a similar thing, the number of friends in Chiang Mai that went through exactly the same thing.

That fact that it is so common is disturbing. 20 years? Wow.

[nidieunimaitre]

If I were you I would just leave her. Keep it simple stupid.

Yes, life is very simple, isn't it.

Well, only for simple people of course.

[nidieunimaitre]

If a man speaks his mind in a forest and no women hears him.....is he still wrong?

The Thai-character/psyche can be dangerously "different", as we all know. I would seriously consider finding the 'back-door' before her condition deteriorates into a psychotic-episode,with you in it !

The Buddhist-way is to deny. A life time of suppressed emotion will eventually surface and be projected onto the world in any number of forms ranging from mild -irritation to full-blown murderous rage.

The disney-land level of social Buddhism with its glittering forms and mindless magic does nothing more than re-affirm the forms of social protocol. The higher-forms of Buddhism where inner observation through meditation has been known to be profoundly therapeutic is a common refuge for many Thai-people who suffer from duress. This can be found in the quite-tude of ones home,a forest Wat or a traditional meditation retreat centre.

If you could have a friend or family member of your wife willing to accompany her to an appropriate Wat for a week to 10 days,could be helpful.She can immerse herself in a changed atmosphere that resonates most near and dear to her own heart and cultural identity.

Although I suspect her issues are more likely to do with age (menopause)and bio-chemical brain functions,one should not over look the powerful effects of stillness and silence can have on the human-psyche,especially when it is so intrinsic to the culture itself.

So you think that 10 days of buddhism can cure a life time of thai buddhism?

We (wife and I) have been searching for quote <an appropriate> unquote wat.

We gave up.

[connda]

If I were you I would just leave her. Keep it simple stupid.

I'm analytical. It's a curse.

[connda]

If a man speaks his mind in a forest and no women hears him.....is he still wrong?

The Thai-character/psyche can be dangerously "different", as we all know. I would seriously consider finding the 'back-door' before her condition deteriorates into a psychotic-episode,with you in it !

The Buddhist-way is to deny. A life time of suppressed emotion will eventually surface and be projected onto the world in any number of forms ranging from mild -irritation to full-blown murderous rage.

The disney-land level of social Buddhism with its glittering forms and mindless magic does nothing more than re-affirm the forms of social protocol. The higher-forms of Buddhism where inner observation through meditation has been known to be profoundly therapeutic is a common refuge for many Thai-people who suffer from duress. This can be found in the quite-tude of ones home,a forest Wat or a traditional meditation retreat centre.

If you could have a friend or family member of your wife willing to accompany her to an appropriate Wat for a week to 10 days,could be helpful.She can immerse herself in a changed atmosphere that resonates most near and dear to her own heart and cultural identity.

Although I suspect her issues are more likely to do with age (menopause)and bio-chemical brain functions,one should not over look the powerful effects of stillness and silence can have on the human-psyche,especially when it is so intrinsic to the culture itself.

We've been to retreats together in the past. Might be time to consider it again.

[nidieunimaitre]

If I were you I would just leave her. Keep it simple stupid.

I'm analytical. It's a curse.

It is bad luck. Bad coincidence. Life is unfair. For both of you.

It is not a curse. A curse means that there is a higher being cursing you - no such thing!

Make the best of it.

Be patient.

Prepare yourself for the possible (probable) inevitable.

Next leave and try not to look back.

[connda]

If a man speaks his mind in a forest and no women hears him.....is he still wrong?

The Thai-character/psyche can be dangerously "different", as we all know. I would seriously consider finding the 'back-door' before her condition deteriorates into a psychotic-episode,with you in it !

The Buddhist-way is to deny. A life time of suppressed emotion will eventually surface and be projected onto the world in any number of forms ranging from mild -irritation to full-blown murderous rage.

The disney-land level of social Buddhism with its glittering forms and mindless magic does nothing more than re-affirm the forms of social protocol. The higher-forms of Buddhism where inner observation through meditation has been known to be profoundly therapeutic is a common refuge for many Thai-people who suffer from duress. This can be found in the quite-tude of ones home,a forest Wat or a traditional meditation retreat centre.

If you could have a friend or family member of your wife willing to accompany her to an appropriate Wat for a week to 10 days,could be helpful.She can immerse herself in a changed atmosphere that resonates most near and dear to her own heart and cultural identity.

Although I suspect her issues are more likely to do with age (menopause)and bio-chemical brain functions,one should not over look the powerful effects of stillness and silence can have on the human-psyche,especially when it is so intrinsic to the culture itself.

So you think that 10 days of buddhism can cure a life time of thai buddhism?

We (wife and I) have been searching for quote <an appropriate> unquote wat.

We gave up.

Wat Tham Tong near Hang Dong in Northern Thailand. Retreat center concentrates primarily on walking meditation. Retreats are lead by both Thai monks and maechee. This is a Thai Buddhist retreat center. Dust off your Thai speaking skills. Google Earth Placemark attached.

Wat Tham Tong.kmz

[BigJohnnyBKK]

We farang usually end up with the damaged goods, certainly many past their use-by date.

My ex-wife now seems much improved - of course most likely because I don't have to live with her anymore, but she recently called me for a late-night talkfest during which she admitted going postal on her current victim partner.

She does find it helpful to check in to be a temporary nun for a week or so every other month, learning to meditated has helped her get herself under control.

Her family has confided in me that they think she may be possessed by evil spirits, and have held several exorcism-type ceremonies, but somehow they haven't helped much.

If you've got kids together, do whatever it takes to protect them, even though single fathering isn't fun, it's a lot easier here than it would be back home.

[Riley'sLife]

Connda,

At the risk of being considered callous, I would reluctantly but definitely suggest you take the following steps.

Firstly, carefully take steps to extricate yourself and your assets from the relationship. This doesn’t mean that you will ultimately split from the relationship, but being prudently prepared would be to your advantage.

Secondly, seek a clinical diagnosis, not from a psychologist, but from a psychiatrist.

(Your wife’s behavior seems indicative of psychosis, perhaps Bi-polar which can be treated very effectively with Lithium. This is only an observation, of course. It may well be that other, less easily treatable psychosis is at play. Menopause, alcohol, and current medication could also be an issue. A correct diagnosis from a professional should help you in your decision making far more than all the posts your fellow board members make here.)

You sincerely have my sympathy, actually my empathy, as I had a relationship such as yours that continued for over 10 years with me explaining to everyone that “if you love someone, you stick by them whatever”. Unfortunately, nobody gave me the advice I am now giving you, and to be truthful even if they had, I perhaps would have still repeated “if you love someone, you stick by them whatever”.

The serious fact is that mood swings by your partner, such that you don’t know from one moment to the next how they will change, will over time have a quite devastating effect upon your own health.

So, my advice, not given glibly, not chauvinistically, but I hope in a balanced caring way, would be for you to take the 2 steps I outline above, prepare for the worst, and most importantly take responsibility for your own future and, ……Get ready to leave.

I doubt that meditation will have any significant, lasting benefit without clinical intervention.

I wish you all the very best with your future, whatever you decide.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Riley'sLife