I agree with most of what you have written and you have made some very good points, I don’t totally agree with your view on monogamy, agreed that men see sex as sex a lot of the time, but I would say that women use their sexuality as a tool or sometimes a reward, there for giving it a higher value in a woman’s eye’s.    Please explain!!

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I think hes saying that women often use sex to get what they want or as a reward for good behaviour, but theres an almost unwritten rule (among women) that says basically men have to work for it, and hard - its not given out lightly. Therefore something that they have always seen as something that is 'given' to men on quite tough terms, its often difficult to adapt to Asia where men dont have to work particularly hard (or at all) to get sex.

Hey there!

thanks for all your promt answers!

I know he is a good guy!, he has respected me and he hasn't cheated on me, as long as I know

I am looking this travel as a  new experience in my life, but it bathers me having to deal with this kind of situation "fidelity"

I will try to see this as you say from a different angle; and once there I will see and decide!!!

anyway I am sitill afraid!

--- sometimes I think world sucks!, you can be loyal to some one, but you never know, life changes all the time, WE MUST BE PREPARED,

thanks a lot again

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Mica, you say your guy has remained faithful as long as you know.

If you come here with a million concerns, are the chances not larger of him being driven out. OTOH if you remain happy and content, he'll stay yours. Don't worry about things you can't control, but try to control the things that may keep him yours.

Hola

don´t worry  to much now, nothing has happened yet...

Get stressed if  he ever cheat on you so that you will only suffer once...

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Er.. yeah.. that's the one I was trying to say..

I'm a western man with a western GF. I'm certainly not a bad lookin fella, (even if I say so) Ah HAHAHAHAHAHAH./.... I see your avatar... or is that NOT you...

redrus

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I have been reading this thread since it started, and find it very interesting

What I am wondering is do women  really have such a low opinion of men, that we have absolutely no control over our actions????

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that's true though isn't it... I know the very very few times I've cheated I was absolutely out of control. But no more than I am every day of my life.

Nah... Just kidding. Generally speaking, when I'm in a relationship, it's cos I choose to be in that relationship. Going by the rule of treat others as you would have them treat you, I try to maintain fatihfulness.

When I'm single, sure I party.

Seville

I agree with most of what you have written and you have made some very good points, I don’t totally agree with your view on monogamy, agreed that men see sex as sex a lot of the time, but I would say that women use their sexuality as a tool or sometimes a reward, there for giving it a higher value in a woman’s eye’s.

You also say that our society dictates our behavior which I also agree with, another way to look at that is that society sets our moral standards and boundries I don’t think that a man has less morals than a woman.

Example: - a bar I used to work at had a waitress that told me she made a lot more tips if she wore certain clothes and fixed her hair a certain way.

Morally who is worse the waitress for selling her appearance or the man that is trying to look down her top?

At the end of the day the world is made up of individuals who fall into different catagorys, everybody knows in their heart what is right or wrong, if anybody, man or woman can justify cheating they are really only kidding themselves.

As for the original question, I haven’t got a clue; I guess you play with the cards you are dealt.

Makes very interesting reading though

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Yeah agreed. cheating is not justifiable under any circumstances.

Free love ? Never existed... just cheap sex.

Again, why worry about what hasn't happened, and if you do persist in worrying about what hasn't happened, you may find that the very things you worry about DO happen.

Better, worry positively about how succesful your forthcoming venture may be... The joy could enrapture you guys.

Chok Dii. Good Luck.

I agree with most of what you have written and you have made some very good points, I don’t totally agree with your view on monogamy, agreed that men see sex as sex a lot of the time, but I would say that women use their sexuality as a tool or sometimes a reward, there for giving it a higher value in a woman’s eye’s.    Please explain!!

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I think hes saying that women often use sex to get what they want or as a reward for good behaviour, but theres an almost unwritten rule (among women) that says basically men have to work for it, and hard - its not given out lightly. Therefore something that they have always seen as something that is 'given' to men on quite tough terms, its often difficult to adapt to Asia where men dont have to work particularly hard (or at all) to get sex.

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Ben I'm glad you said 'often' because not all women are the same. Some of us actually like it . All jokes aside, I think women do grow away from societal conditionings ( and I do believe that is where this perception stems from)-with maturity comes a more comfortable recognition of one's own sexuality.

In Asia though, do you really think that women and sex comes hand in hand? There are many social stratas in Asia, each with moralistic leanings.Are you saying that all Asian women give sex freely?

Do you sleep around?

No, Why Not?

Its most probably because sex in our culture has always been looked upon as something sacred, that has to be earned by galantry, the promise of exclusivity etc...

I mean if you look at sex in an unemotional way, Its a lot of fun, So why not do it as much as possible with as many attractive people as possible?. I like the movies, So I go as often as I can to watch as many different movies as I can.

I think monogamy is a fairly western ideal, I cant personally think of many European countries that have included polygamy as a major part of their culture. Even the King of England could only have one wife at a time, Asia's always been a little different in that respect. A little less stuffy if you like, women have something men want (sex), why shouldnt it be traded for something that women want (money,stability,comfort).

Most Asian rulers have had many, many wives - because they could afford to provide for them, Whereas religion always stopped most European rulers from having multiple wives.

Asian women also havent been brought up with western religion, where sex is something sacred and only given to one man and for one reason only, marriage, solely to them. Its always been quite acceptable to be part of a mans retinue if he was of high enough calibre.

But to answer your question about in Asia do women and sex come easily, the answer has to be an astounding yes. I'm a fairly good looking chap, but in England I would still have to work at trying to "pull" women even if they were blatantly interested. Over here you have trouble buying a coffee without someone asking if your married.

I had a friend come and visit me for a week, he got asked out by just about every girl within 1 mile radius - None of these were bar girls, prostitutes or desperate, They mostly had good jobs and were very pretty. My friend had been single in the UK for 2 years because he simply couldnt find or be bothered to chase decent women.

Do you sleep around?

No, Why Not? I have in the past because I chose to and I enjoyed it. My priorities have changed now.

Its most probably because sex in our culture has always been looked upon as something sacred, that has to be earned by galantry, the promise of exclusivity etc...

I mean if you look at sex in an unemotional way, Its a lot of fun, So why not do it as much as possible with as many attractive people as possible?. I like the movies, So I go as often as I can to watch as many different movies as I can.

I think monogamy is a fairly western ideal, I cant personally think of many European countries that have included polygamy as a major part of their culture. Even the King of England could only have one wife at a time, Asia's always been a little different in that respect.  A little less stuffy if you like, women have something men want (sex), why shouldnt it be traded for something that women want (money,stability,comfort). Not exclusive to Asian cultures.....

Most Asian rulers have had many, many wives - because they could afford to provide for them, Whereas religion always stopped most European rulers from having multiple wives.

Asian women also havent been brought up with western religion, where sex is something sacred and only given to one man and for one reason only, marriage, solely to them.  Its always been quite acceptable to be part of a mans retinue if he was of high enough calibre.

But to answer your question about in Asia do women and sex come easily, the answer has to be an astounding yes.  I'm a fairly good looking chap, but in England I would still have to work at trying to "pull" women even if they were blatantly interested.  Over here you have trouble buying a coffee without someone asking if your married.

I had a friend come and visit me for a week, he got asked out by just about every girl within 1 mile radius - None of these were bar girls, prostitutes or desperate, They mostly had good jobs and were very pretty.  My friend had been single in the UK for 2 years because he simply couldnt find or be bothered to chase decent women.

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That's the difference.... women are TAUGHT in the west, that men are supposed to chase the women. DON"T BLAME US, I find it as limiting as you do !!!!

Do you sleep around?

No, Why Not?

Its most probably because sex in our culture has always been looked upon as something sacred, that has to be earned by galantry, the promise of exclusivity etc...

I mean if you look at sex in an unemotional way, Its a lot of fun, So why not do it as much as possible with as many attractive people as possible?. I like the movies, So I go as often as I can to watch as many different movies as I can.I think monogamy is a fairly western ideal, I cant personally think of many European countries that have included polygamy as a major part of their culture. Even the King of England could only have one wife at a time, Asia's always been a little different in that respect.  A little less stuffy if you like, women have something men want (sex), why shouldnt it be traded for something that women want (money,stability,comfort).

Most Asian rulers have had many, many wives - because they could afford to provide for them, Whereas religion always stopped most European rulers from having multiple wives.

Asian women also havent been brought up with western religion, where sex is something sacred and only given to one man and for one reason only, marriage, solely to them.  Its always been quite acceptable to be part of a mans retinue if he was of high enough calibre.

But to answer your question about in Asia do women and sex come easily, the answer has to be an astounding yes.  I'm a fairly good looking chap, but in England I would still have to work at trying to "pull" women even if they were blatantly interested.  Over here you have trouble buying a coffee without someone asking if your married.

I had a friend come and visit me for a week, he got asked out by just about every girl within 1 mile radius - None of these were bar girls, prostitutes or desperate, They mostly had good jobs and were very pretty.  My friend had been single in the UK for 2 years because he simply couldnt find or be bothered to chase decent women.

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Yes you maybe right

However for me is every important that a guy win my heart with galantry...

exclusiveness...well I think that´s part of a love relationship...otherwise you will be in love with everybody and I don´t think that´s possible...

Well I understand that many people like just sex without any emotional attachements...blah blah blah...

However I have never done it...I think I can´t...

Kisses, caress for me are very important I can´t give them if I don´t have a special feeling...

for me sex is sharing my whole self with someone else that´s why it has to be someone who I feel something special...

I enjoy sex because I am sharing something important with the person I like... if I don´t like it (not only the look) I don´t think I will enjoy it that much

For me is not easy to give my self away...I mean I keep most of the things for me until I feel vey comfortable with someone...with sex is just the same...

Is like ...I can´t dance if I don´t feel the music or the lyrics...

Is something very personal...

So many posters in the last 24 hours.

The rulers of England could only have one wife, but most had many lovers.

I would say that women use their sexuality as a tool or sometimes a reward, there for giving it a higher value in a woman’s eye’s.

I agree and I'm a women. It is so obvious, look at the fashion and cosmetic industry. I live in Califoria!! Last night, I was listening to the list of things that two 20 something girls wanted to save up money to have done to themselves. Treatments that I'd never even heard of. Your looks and sexuality for a women are huge and women in power no it.

Morality is subjective, right. I think we can all agree that breaking an agreement and not be honest with the person is wrong, in most cases. It's wrong to harm another being, just for the sake of doing it. Things like this.

Is it wrong to go out and have sex with as many people as you can?

Well to me, no.

Is it wrong to go out and have sex with as many people as you can, knowing that your partner is not okay with that? YES

women are TAUGHT in the west, that men are supposed to chase the women. DON"T BLAME US, I find it as limiting as you do !!!!

Hmmm ... I don't agree. I think men and women are told that they are not supposed to be with more then one person at a time and that if they do seek out and affair with someone else, the should NEVER tell their partner.

If we break things way down to the level that we are all animals.

Primates and other pack animals, generally an Alfa Male that mates with the females in the group.

Solitary animals that only come together to mate and then the females goes off on her own.

And a very small group, such as Orcas and Elephants, that one female is the leader of the group.

I think we as humans naturally fall into one of these 3 catagories and that our abilty to think and that we are more emotional then say a Dolphin, give us the oppertunity to have those life long realationships.

But a never ending, life long partnership that is based on trust and all the juicey things that most of us want, is rare. If you are lucky enough to share that type of connection with someone it is such a gift.

But most of us are lucky if we have a good 10 years with the same partner and that is also a gift.

For Humans I think the best you can do for yourself and others is to be honest and try and live by what you know in your heart is right for you, even if that means you have to let another person down. I'd would much rather have my lover tell me before he has an affair that he is thinking about it, then to have him tell me after it has begun.

soo.... Shall we cyber shag up a great big orgy then.....?

So many posters in the last 24 hours.

The rulers of England could only have one wife, but most had many lovers.

I would say that women use their sexuality as a tool or sometimes a reward, there for giving it a higher value in a woman’s eye’s.

I agree and I'm a women. It is so obvious, look at the fashion and cosmetic industry. I live in Califoria!! Last night, I was listening to the list of things that two 20 something girls wanted to save up money to have done to themselves. Treatments that I'd never even heard of. Your looks and sexuality for a women are huge and women in power no it.

Morality is subjective, right. I think we can all agree that breaking an agreement and not be honest with the person is wrong, in most cases. It's wrong to harm another being, just for the sake of doing it. Things like this.

Is it wrong to go out and have sex with as many people as you can?

Well to me, no.

Is it wrong to go out and have sex with as many people as you can, knowing that your partner is not okay with that? YES

women are TAUGHT in the west, that men are supposed to chase the women. DON"T BLAME US, I find it as limiting as you do !!!!

Hmmm ... I don't agree. I think men and women are told that they are not supposed to be with more then one person at a time and that if they do seek out and affair with someone else, the should NEVER tell their partner.

If we break things way down to the level that we are all animals.

Primates and other pack animals, generally an Alfa Male that mates with the females in the group.

Solitary animals that only come together to mate and then the females goes off on her own.

And a very small group, such as Orcas and Elephants, that one female is the leader of the group.

I think we as humans naturally fall into one of these 3 catagories and that our abilty to think and that we are more emotional then say a Dolphin, give us the oppertunity to have those life long realationships.

But a never ending, life long partnership that is based on trust and all the juicey things that most of us want, is rare. If you are lucky enough to share that type of connection with someone it is such a gift.

But most of us are lucky if we have a good 10 years with the same partner and that is also a gift.

For Humans I think the best you can do for yourself and others is to be honest and try and live by what you know in your heart is right for you, even if that means you have to let another person down. I'd would much rather have my lover tell me before he has an affair that he is thinking about it, then to have him tell me after it has begun.

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I SO AGREE WITH THAT!!!

I too agree with that. Well posted Seville.

I'd would much rather have my lover tell me before he has an affair that he is thinking about it, then to have him tell me after it has begun.

Seville..... how could anyone know that they were thinking of an affair before meeting someone? Nobody has a crystal ball in life.....

I'd would much rather have my lover tell me before he has an affair that he is thinking about it, then to have him tell me after it has begun.

Seville..... how could anyone know that they were thinking of an affair before meeting someone? Nobody has a crystal ball in life.....

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Yes I understand your point khall

However I knew that my last boyfriend was going to have an affair...

He went to mexico for 6 months...He had an affair...then he realised that I our relationship was very valuable to him...(he need it to have an affair to show him that I was the girl he wanted)

I knew that this will happen...and I think he knew it to...

well I think he went to mexico thinking if someone turns up I will have my fun....

I'd would much rather have my lover tell me before he has an affair that he is thinking about it, then to have him tell me after it has begun.

Seville..... how could anyone know that they were thinking of an affair before meeting someone? Nobody has a crystal ball in life.....

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The incentive and desire behind such an action often does not happen out of the blue. The instinct is usually there first, and i would imagine most are aware of it. It's a natural thing.

So why leave the other behind thinking that the relationship is intact? Just leave...

(actually, I'd like male perspective on this statement - if you dare- as I've been in this situation and would appreciate your input)!!!!!

Edited December 18, 200520 yr by khall64au

So why leave the other behind thinking that the relationship is intact? Just leave...

(actually, I'd like  male perspective on this statement - if you dare- as I've been in this situation and would appreciate your input)!!!!!

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Believe it or not, the vast majority of blokes really don't want to cause you any pain, hence the need that some find to lie .I mean, who is going to tell their partner that they want to have a more polyamorous relationship, when they have already agreed to a monogamous one?It's not going to go down very well, is it?

I agree with you, they should just be honest and leave if it turns into anything more than a brief encounter. But the fact that a bloke has chosen to sleep with another female does not make the relationship he has with his original partner inviable, nor does it necessarily indicate any lack of genuine feelings.

If he has an indiscretion, but still loves you deeply and treats you as well as you would want, is it such a major problem?

There will be plenty of opportuntiy for short time no commitment / no relationship type stuff - in my opinion that is completely different to someone who has a long time affair.

However i am not saying it is correct!!

HI,

Me and my boyfriend are moving soon to Thailand.

We have been living together for 2 years

He will be working in an enterprise near bangkok, He is going as an expat

I considere my self as an open mind person, but obviously  I think in  loyalty as something really important for a couple!

My question is, should I be scared of moving to Thailand?,

I mean, I have done it before, I lived for One year in Canada, two years in France, and I had no problem to adapt my self in different contries or with the language, but now this is not my fear, I know that I will learn Thai, and that I am very happy of knowing a new culture and this country.

But a lot of people had told me that is not strange that the couples start having discussions because infidelity in Thailand.

I don’t know thailand or the life in bangkok, everything is going to be new for me, but you know that people talks, and I have heard thinks about that and I am starting to be afraid of going!

Besides this horrible thaughts, I am very concernend, about me!, what am I going to do there?, is it easy to find a job? , could you please give me some advices? and if you know any languages school where I can study the thai?

I have studies in international business and I can speak English, French and Spanish!

Thanks for your answers

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So why leave the other behind thinking that the relationship is intact? Just leave...

My friend & I had the same conversation yesterday. Since meeting my husband I haven't wanted to sleep with another man. I hope that if I ever got to the stage where I was thinking about it I would have identified & tried to resolve the problem with him. I don't know if I would tell him I was wanting to shag someone else but think that it is a symptom of a bigger problem & that we could at lease try to work it out before admitting all.

As for the morality of it, thats individual IMO, some women would accept a partner cheating on them once or twice & others wouldn't.

Seville..... how could anyone know that they were thinking of an affair before meeting someone? Nobody has a crystal ball in life.....

Fast Eddie replied, but I will too.

1. You could be feeling unsatisfied in your realationship or feeling like perhaps you want to act on a sexual fantasy that does not involve your partner.

2. You meet someone and feel like you want to explore what you are feeling, but are in a realationship.

There are more, but you get the idea.

I mean if you look at sex in an unemotional way, Its a lot of fun, So why not do it as much as possible with as many attractive people as possible?. I like the movies, So I go as often as I can to watch as many different movies as I can.

easier said than done, unfortunately. i totally agree with you but maybe because women are programmed differently it is near to impossible, for me at least, to shed all emotions when involved in a sexual relationship. i find sex without any deeper connection to be utterly boring and unfulfilling.

Believe it or not, the vast majority of blokes really don't want to cause you any pain, hence the need that some find to lie .I mean, who is going to tell their partner that they want to have a more polyamorous relationship, when they have already agreed to a monogamous one?

&

But the fact that a bloke has chosen to sleep with another female does not make the relationship he has with his original partner inviable, nor does it necessarily indicate any lack of genuine feelings.

i believe this is true as well... but the fact is, to most women it is the lying more than the actual fact that the man had sex with someone else that hurts. it destroys all the trust in the relationship. i would much rather have someone tell me straight up that they met someone else, whether it was a brief encounter or not, and let me be angry for a day or so but then get over it with my trust still intact, rather than find out they had lied to me all along. that sort of relationship has virtually no chance of lasting long term, at least for me. and what about STDs or pregnancy? what if the other woman becomes psycho and obsessive? there are lots of problems inherent in an illicit relationship. if someone lies about cheating, they just have to keep digging the hole deeper and deeper until it's a much bigger mess than when they started out.

personally, i think when men start wanting to sleep with other women then they should break up the relationship first. it's much nicer than doing it later on when the girl is emotionally destroyed by the lying or other side effects. and if you are married, why did you bother getting married if you weren't going to live up to the commitment involved?

but the fact is, to most women it is the lying more than the actual fact that the man had sex with someone else that hurts. it destroys all the trust in the relationship. i would much rather have someone tell me straight up that they met someone else, whether it was a brief encounter or not, and let me be angry for a day or so but then get over it with my trust still intact, rather than find out they had lied to me all along. that sort of relationship has virtually no chance of lasting long term, at least for me. and what about STDs or pregnancy? what if the other woman becomes psycho and obsessive? there are lots of problems inherent in an illicit relationship. if someone lies about cheating, they just have to keep digging the hole deeper and deeper until it's a much bigger mess than when they started out.

Agree 100% -- the lying is the worst. Because it permananetly destroys trust. Infidelity isn't good but in itself doesn't invariably destroy the relationship -- but lying about it does because from then on you can never feel that you know if he's faithful or not.

It may be that men and women differ on this. Years ago, I was married. I lways told my husband that whatever he did, just be honest with me about it. And he always told me, "if you ever sleep with another man, DON'T tell me about it."

We both kept those promises (as far as I know). Add ironically, the promise to tell or not in itself helped deter infidelity...in his case, because while he could maybe contemplate cheating he couldn't take the thought of having to tell me about it....and in my case because the burden of having to lie was so painful.

(I did finally cheat as the marriage was falling apart...and true to my word, didn't tell him. And that was the hardest part of all ... I didn't really feel bad about the afair because the marriage was, for me, already dead emotionally, but I felt awful about having to keep it a secret.....

If you want to fk around then be single, if you don't stay true/committed. Not a hard concept.

If you want to fk around then be single, if you don't stay true/committed. Not a hard concept.

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BritM Can you explain it to some of my ex-bf? pleaaaaaase...

It seems that I don´t know how to make myself understand...

If you want to fk around then be single, if you don't stay true/committed. Not a hard concept.

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But what if you want a deep emotional connection with one individual, and still feel the urge to fk around?

If you want to fk around then be single, if you don't stay true/committed. Not a hard concept.

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But what if you want a deep emotional connection with one individual, and still feel the urge to fk around?

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Time to move on because you have no respect for your partner. How would you feel if they fk around too?

Thats why we love ya Brit!

Girlx is absolutely correct, nothing destroys a relationship more than dishonesty. And a man who has so little respect for his partner as to behave in a dishonest manner can't really feel a deep emotional attachment. At least, not from a woman's point of view.

But maybe you don't want to move on, and do in fact have the utmost respect and depth of feeling for your partner. If you are honest about your desire to fk around it would appear, from some of the reponses on this thread, that maybe that is more acceptable. I guess that makes sense.

I know a few lads that do cheat, but they always seem to justify that its just a one off and means nothing. I love my wife/gf. I then ask them well did you tell your wife/gf - oh I could never do that they would leave me. I then ask well if you think its ok for a one off then its ok for your wife/gf to do the same. The answer is oh no I wouldn't like that and if she loved me she wouldnt cheat on me.

So in the end it seems that most people know its wrong or why else would they hide it or not allow the same for their partner? Faire enough if you have an open relationship, but in my eyes why then be exclusive because it certainly doesn't fit the definition.

Edited December 19, 200520 yr by britmaveric

I know a few lads that do cheat, but they always seem to justify that its just a one off and means nothing. I love my wife/gf. I then ask them well did you tell your wife/gf - oh I could never do that they would leave me.  I then ask well if you think its ok for a one off then its ok for your wife/gf to do the same. The answer is oh no I wouldn't like that and if she loved me she wouldnt cheat on me. 

What is that... I mentioned this before. It blows me away that men have this dbl standard and I say men because most women who are okay with an open realationship are just that.

Maybe, it goes back to the Alpha Male idea and that's just how these guys are built.

Honesty of who you are is always the best choice. If your lying your partner will always know. Women always know when their man is cheating and we are a sneaky lot, we'll catch ya.

But maybe you don't want to move on, and do in fact have the utmost respect and depth of feeling for your partner. If you are honest about your desire to fk around it would appear, from some of the reponses on this thread, that maybe that is more acceptable. I guess that makes sense.

Frustrating, isn't it? Expectations and reality rarely meet.

If you want to fk around then be single, if you don't stay true/committed. Not a hard concept.

My hats off to you BM for your capability to be loyal.

But please consider yourself lucky for having the ability to control yourself or perhaps you really are not as easily attracted to women.