What if we are talking about men who can't help but has to have sex with different women every now and then? Can you accept it if he's being honest?

nope- have an ex boyfriend with a clinical sex addiction. even though we had regular and decent sex, he would sneak out when i was sleeping to go f*** prostitutes and other random girls. he also lied about it for 8 years, though i caught on after about 3. i tried to stay with him because i loved him (still do), but his actions were endangering my health and making me an emotional basket case. so now he is off with a new girlfriend, lying to her, and cheating on her constantly. he probably will never change.

if you can not make a commitment, don't get yourself in a relationship! if my man had been honest with me from the start, i would not have wasted 8 years being faithful to him! we still might have been together, might have even had a (safer) sexual relationship. but i would not have had many of the illusions about our future together which were later, and sadly, shattered.

Sorry about that.

and there is still among many men (not all, of course) a sense of double standard which really just boils down to selfishness and immaturity... caring more about one's one feelings than that of the spouse/partner.

I agree.

I have spoken to a lot of colleagues and friends who cheat and asked them if it is a right thing to do and if they can tolerate their wives doing the same.

To my amazement, a lot said that it's ok for men to do so but not women.

And when I ask them why, isn't it unfair, they just say "I dunno....."

Some though do say that they know it's wrong but ask " Are there cats that don't eat fish?"

"clinical sex addiction"

Baloney. "Sex addiction" was removed from the APA DSM rev 4, years ago.

Your ex liked to have sex, and that's that. He's not nuts. The fact that you accepted it, is.

Unfortunately those that fk around (lads/ladies) and are in a supposed monogomous relationship simply want their cake and eat it too. However for the most part a choice has to be made and this rationale is severely lacking.

"clinical sex addiction"

Baloney.  "Sex addiction" was removed from the APA DSM rev 4, years ago.

Your ex liked to have sex, and that's that.  He's not nuts.  The fact that you accepted it, is.

Why are you so angry and have to call anyone nuts? Your toe got stepped on?

Why not say something more?

What's wrong with the words "sex addiction"?

For me, sex once a year is addiction! For someone 3 times a day is not enough!

Sorry, not convinced this is a major factor. I think bottom line is, it hurts to be cheated on, and there is still among many men (not all, of course) a sense of double standard which really just boils down to selfishness and immaturity... caring more about one's one feelings than that of the spouse/partner.

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But why is there the demand for monogamy in the first place? What is it that actually hurts? It's irrefutable that a male who has selected a female for his specific reproductive purposes wants to be guaranteed that it is him who gets to reproduce with her, or else what is the point in him being with her? The fact is that the successful completion of his goal is, to some extent, reliant on her fidelity. The successful completion of her reproductive goal, is not reliant on his fidelity. Hence it is not as much of a double standard as it appears, as their situations are different.

It has nothing at all to do with immaturity, and this along with the other explanations you listed in the most part come across as you attempting to attribute negative characteristics to an individual who may indulge in a practice which you dislike, thereby helping to justify your stance on the issue. All of the examples you listed may well be the case, but you miss maybe the simplest and most common, and that is that the man concerned does not have any issues at all, but has an overwhelming urge to have more than one sexual partner built into his biology.

There appears to be a universal agreement from the women on this thread that such behaviour indicates some sort of deep problem within the relationship/individual, but be aware that from the man's perspective there might not be anything deeply wrong with the relationship at all.

The selfishness aspect of it is hard to deny, but that is understandably also inherent to some extent in both the male and female desire for their partner to be faithful.

However you have forgotten the second step after reproduction...that´s it "Make sure that the offspring will survive", thus female want to find a male who will protect and take care of her offspring... Therefore as female we don´t  want a male who sleeps around because there is a high chance that such male will not take part in our offspring caring... and we know that a second  male is less willingly to take care of someonelse´s offspring...

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This would also be my basic understanding of the reason behind the female desire for a faithful partner. In all honesty it is an understandable concern, and one i can appreciate. Some of the talk on this thread about it being the lack of honesty, rather than the action itself, i find hard to really believe. Of course, the lieing is dissapointing, but i bet there are very few women here who would be cool with it if their partner turned round and told them honestly, beforehand, of their intentions.

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This would also be my basic understanding of the reason behind the female desire for a faithful partner. In all honesty it is an understandable concern, and one i can appreciate. Some of the talk on this thread about it being the lack of honesty, rather than the action itself, i find hard to really believe. Of course, the lieing is dissapointing, but i bet there are very few women here who would be cool with it if their partner turned round and told them honestly, beforehand, of their intentions.

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Don't be so sure of this. I think most women would prefer to hear about it before hand. Being, " cool with it", as you say, well no. I don't think most women would say, "okay honey, go out and have a nice time."

I don't feel a man who is not monogomous is immuture, he is simply not monogomous. People that aren't monogomous and they know who they are; should not enter into marriage. Unless the person they are marrying knows that they are going to have other lovers.

However you have forgotten the second step after reproduction...that´s it "Make sure that the offspring will survive", thus female want to find a male who will protect and take care of her offspring... Therefore as female we don´t  want a male who sleeps around because there is a high chance that such male will not take part in our offspring caring... and we know that a second  male is less willingly to take care of someonelse´s offspring...

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This would also be my basic understanding of the reason behind the female desire for a faithful partner. In all honesty it is an understandable concern, and one i can appreciate. Some of the talk on this thread about it being the lack of honesty, rather than the action itself, i find hard to really believe. Of course, the lieing is dissapointing, but i bet there are very few women here who would be cool with it if their partner turned round and told them honestly, beforehand, of their intentions.

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Well when I refer to being honest in a relationship is because I think I have the right to know how is the person I am with...so that I can chose if I want that kind of relationship...or not

further on in the relationship I think I have the right to know how my partner has evolved...

If he tell me that he want to sleep with other girls I will have the opportunity to choose if I want or I don´t want to be in a relationship of that kind...I think is a matter of being more fair to one another and less selfish...

also in one of my post i said that if my partner falls in love with someone else I will try to understand and let him go...

if his honest...well i will by hurt that´s for sure...but is nothing i can do about it...

I will not be able to see him for a while but I won´t be angry to him...

I think... I have never been with an honest partner...you see...

Edited December 21, 200520 yr by Glauka

Baloney. "Sex addiction" was removed from the APA DSM rev 4, years ago.

Your ex liked to have sex, and that's that. He's not nuts. The fact that you accepted it, is.

well there are a lot of people who would argue that the DSM is crap anyway. let's put it this way. my ex would masturbate at least 5 times a day even when we were sleeping together. he could be with 3 or 4 other girls in the same day besides. he had porn on tv 24-7. he visited strip bars a couple times a week. his art is all sex-oriented. his whole entire life when he is not working revolves around sex and the acquisition of it (and for a long time, the hiding of it from me). nowadays his life is going from one sex tourist district of one poor country to another and sleeping with as many girls as he can in a day. you may not call that addiction, but i do. it certainly is more impactive in his life and those around him than any drug addiction i have ever witnessed.

i was nuts to stay with him, though, you are right. love makes people stupid and crazy. i would never put up with it from anyone else.

Well when I refer to being honest in a relationship is because I think I have the right to know how is the person I am with...so that I can chose if I want that kind of relationship...or not

further on in the relationship I think I have the right to know how my partner has evolved...

If he tell me that he want to sleep with other girls I will have the opportunity to choose if I want or I don´t want to be in a relationship of that kind...I think is a matter of being more fair to one another and less selfish...

i agree with this totally, and i think that's what we are all getting at.

However you have forgotten the second step after reproduction...that´s it "Make sure that the offspring will survive", thus female want to find a male who will protect and take care of her offspring... Therefore as female we don´t  want a male who sleeps around because there is a high chance that such male will not take part in our offspring caring... and we know that a second  male is less willingly to take care of someonelse´s offspring...

This would also be my basic understanding of the reason behind the female desire for a faithful partner. In all honesty it is an understandable concern, and one i can appreciate. Some of the talk on this thread about it being the lack of honesty, rather than the action itself, i find hard to really believe. Of course, the lieing is dissapointing, but i bet there are very few women here who would be cool with it if their partner turned round and told them honestly, beforehand, of their intentions.

but do you really think these explanations are valid in this day and age? Are we really so little evolved beyond the cave man days that our intellect is outweighed by our instinct in matters such as these?

but do you really think these explanations are valid in this day and age? Are we really so little evolved beyond the cave man days that our intellect is outweighed by our instinct in matters such as these?

Well sbk I don´t think that scaramanga arguements are only valid for cave men. They are basic in understanding animal behaviour...and like it or not we belong to the mammal class...

there is an interesting question " are we controlled by our genes?" some animal behaviour is focus on the reproduction and passed on our genetic information to the next generation...

Scaramanga opinion is very basic but IMHO is important for the understanding of some of our behaviour...

Those theories about reproduction and passing on DNA are the grounds for more complex understanding...I agree that in this discussionabout relationships they are other things involved as reasoning, feelings etc...but I don´t think we are far from animal behaviour or cave men behaviour (refering to this topic though).

There are certain birds ( I can´t recall the name) that cheat their wives and their lovers.

THese male birds leave the nest an go to find a new bird girl...when they find it they mate together...of course the bird female doesn´t know about the other female...she thinks that she have found a good father for her chicks (imagine what beautiful things this male bird has sung to her...to make her think so )

after mating the male bird leave the nest and go back to his "wife"...

the other female gets very dissapointing...

they are many examples such as this in the animal kingdom...

sorry if my english is not very clear i am working and i don´t have time to check my grammar and spelling...

True, but I read just the other day (National Geographic, I believe) that there is a species of monkeys where the male takes equal care of all children in the group, regardless of parentage. So, since we share nearly the same genetic code as these other primates, why are they so different? Can't be genetic.

I just feel that to use the old "its in our genes" argument is a bit ridiculous in this day and age and is generally used to excuse promiscuous behavior.

Bit too simplistic for my tastes, I guess.

True, but I read just the other day (National Geographic, I believe) that there is a species of monkeys where the male takes equal care of all children in the group, regardless of parentage. So, since we share nearly the same genetic code as these other primates, why are they so different? Can't be genetic.

I just feel that to use the old "its in our genes" argument is a bit ridiculous in this day and age and is generally used  to excuse promiscuous behavior. Bit too simplistic for my tastes, I guess.

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well that old argument is still debating nowadays...however there is always two side of a coin...and new evidence and new theories are being discused today...

People who use such argument to excuse promiscous behaviour is very cheeky if the don´t base their argument on some evidence.

As a said before animal behaviour change within species...scaramanga argument cannot be taken for all animal species , the same as your primate example.

I am with you that is not only gene the ones that control our behaviour ( external factors, education, culture...) but maybe there are more important than we think...

Even though our genetic code is very similar to that in primates different species behave differently...even though you belong to the same genus...

True, but I read just the other day (National Geographic, I believe) that there is a species of monkeys where the male takes equal care of all children in the group, regardless of parentage. So, since we share nearly the same genetic code as these other primates, why are they so different? Can't be genetic.

I just feel that to use the old "its in our genes" argument is a bit ridiculous in this day and age and is generally used  to excuse promiscuous behavior.

Bit too simplistic for my tastes, I guess.

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The whole we share 90% of the genetic code the same as monkeys is a bit misleading, seeing as we also share 50% odd of our genetic code with bananas.

For me, you can study the whys & wherefore of genetics, etc but ultimately, if someone wants a relationshhip with me then I expect fidelity, the reasons are becuase I beleive in showing respect & consideration for your partner, I don't want to risk infection or disease from my partners other partners & ultimatly I beleive in monogamy. If they can't do that then they are better off single. I seek a person who beleives the same as me. If he said he beleived those things too & then cheated it would be a break in trust & for me that is unacceptable. Other couples live with open relationships & thats their business but both have to be aware of the score for it to have a chance of working.

All this back to nature stuff is a get out clause IMO. There are plenty of men & women who manage monogamy so you have to ask why, if it is all down to genetics & animal instinct & being pre-programmed, then how are they able to do it & others can't?

IMO it is personality & how much you value the person your with. Some people just don't have/lose respect for their partner & cheating becomes easy or think that if they can get away with it then it's a bit of a game. Thats about there own regard for their partner not whether or not we are linked to a monkey!

For me, you can study the whys & wherefore of genetics, etc but ultimately, if someone wants a relationshhip with me then I expect fidelity, the reasons are becuase I beleive in showing respect & consideration for your partner, I don't want to risk infection or disease from my partners other partners & ultimatly I beleive in monogamy. If they can't do that then they are better off single. I seek a person who beleives the same as me. If he said he beleived those things too & then cheated it would be a break in trust & for me that is unacceptable. Other couples live with open relationships & thats their business but both have to be aware of the score for it to have a chance of working.

All this back to nature stuff is a get out clause IMO. There are plenty of men & women who manage monogamy so you have to ask why, if it is all down to genetics & animal instinct & being pre-programmed, then how are they able to do it & others can't?

IMO it is personality & how much you value the person your with. Some people just don't have/lose respect for their partner & cheating becomes easy or think that if they can get away with it then it's a bit of a game. Thats about there own regard for their partner not whether or not we are linked to a monkey!

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boo I agree with you about consideration, respect...I also chose monogamy...( you can read my opinion in my previous post)

I am not implying that everything is down to genetic, animal instinct...but you cannot overlook that you have a genetic material and that you have instincts...is part of nature itself...and without them i don´t think we could survive ( think about the possibilities of survival of a human baby without your mother instinct he/ she will not be able to survive, that´s the beauty of such argument IMHO)

why there is some people can be monogamy and some can´t...

1. because we are all not the same and our genetic code also vary from one another...

2. monogamy is not the right or wrong way of thinking is the one we chose depending on our personality...

3. even though some people decided to be in a polygamous relationship they show respect from one another if both partners agree on infidelity behaviour...

I don´t chose this argument to excuse my partners behaviour...(in fact i got into this disscusion because i did not agree 100% with scaramanga basic argument).

I agree with your view of point about relationships...but i like to bear in mind that i am an animal and there are certain things that i don´t want to ignore...

I agree that humans have certain charecteristics that come from the animal kingdom but the ability or inability to be faithful isn't one of them in my own humble opinion. If my husband cheated on me I doubt if I will think "oh thats ok he was just acting on some latent animal instinct to spread his seed around" & I doubt that would be his justificaton for doing it.

Hmmm food for thought on the silly spread the seed around theory.... if thats the case then I guess condoms aren't used?

I agree that humans have certain charecteristics that come from the animal kingdom but the ability or inability to be faithful isn't one of them in my own humble opinion. If my husband cheated on me I doubt if I will think "oh thats ok he was just acting on some latent animal instinct to spread his seed around" & I doubt that would be his justificaton for doing it.

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that sentence simplified the argument too much...

the seed spread refers to the "need" to pass on genetic informatio to the next generation...so that those succesful genes are not lose and the specie can survive...

to be faithful or not is the cause of the "need" to pass on that information nor the other way round.

As sacaramanga well state we as a human females are 100% sure that 50% of our genetic information will be on the next generation...men are not so sure...

However if one of my partners had told me such a excuse when they were unfaithful I am sure that will smile before a get completely mad at then...

but I thought fidelity was the point of this post, not the passing on of genetic information. The passing on of genetic information is a complely different thing entirely. If a guy wanted to pass on his genetic "line" then he should be single with multiple partners but it has nothing to do with fidelity IMO except as a very tired excuse.

but I thought fidelity was the point of this post, not the passing on of genetic information. The passing on of genetic information is a complely different thing entirely. If a guy wanted to pass on his genetic "line" then he should be single with multiple partners but it has nothing to do with fidelity IMO except as a very tired excuse.

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oh my gosh I think we are going in circles....

Look Boo I like monogamy

I don´t want to be with someone who cheat on me with other women...

I want a honest man , love me ,respect me and make me laugh...and think that i am a very pretty flamenco dancer...

I never doubted we agree but I just wondered what the talk about nature, animals etc had to do with it but it's ok, you don't want to discuss it. no problem.

boo I agree with you  about consideration, respect...I also chose monogamy...( you can read my opinion in my previous post)

I am not implying that everything is down to genetic, animal instinct...but you cannot overlook that you have a genetic material and that you have instincts...is part of nature itself...and without them i don´t think we could survive ( think about the possibilities of survival of a human  baby without your mother instinct he/ she will not be able to survive, that´s the beauty of such argument IMHO)

why there is some people can be monogamy and some can´t...

1. because we are all not the same and our genetic code also vary from one another...

2. monogamy is not the right or wrong way of thinking is the one we chose depending on our personality...

3. even though some people decided to be in a polygamous relationship they show respect from one another if  both partners agree on infidelity behaviour...

I don´t chose this argument to excuse my partners behaviour...(in fact i got into this disscusion because i did not agree 100% with scaramanga basic argument).

I agree with your view of point about relationships...but i like to bear in mind that i am an animal and there are certain things that i don´t want to ignore...

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I agree with the points you make here. I also have to clarify to anyone reading the thread that i was not trying to 'excuse' anyones behaviour, but rather offering an explanation for the behaviour. Other posters on the thread had attempted to paint polygynous desires in men as deviant behaviour or that the individual must have some unresolved mental issues. This is not the case, it is natural behaviour.

I agree that humans have certain charecteristics that come from the animal kingdom but the ability or inability to be faithful isn't one of them in my own humble opinion. If my husband cheated on me I doubt if I will think "oh thats ok he was just acting on some latent animal instinct to spread his seed around" & I doubt that would be his justificaton for doing it.

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Of course, there is a great deal of choice in whether to be faithful or not, but monogamy is a practice that people choose to undertake, or in many cases are forced to agree to because of cultural constraints. It is not our natural way, as a species it would be more accurate to say that we are hardwired for polygyny. If your husband chose to sleep with another woman, he probably would be acting on his animal instinct to spread his seed.

u see, I completly disagree. Why do some cheat when others do not? If the nature argument was correct wouldn't it stand to reason that all people were cheaters?

Again, this is a peronal thing isn't it, there is nothing that you or any one else could say that would convince me that the act of cheating is out of the control of the cheater. As an evolved human being it would be nice to think that they could have some control over their actions & not use excuses for bad behaviour.

Imagine...."Sorry I stole that gold necklace, I did it becuase I am geneitcally linked to a magpie & like shiny things?"..... Not really convincing to me

In my experience, for all their complaining about women's "oversensitivity"on matters of fidelity, men are even less able to tolerate their wife having an affair than wives are. Much less.

Ironically some of the most egregious philanderers are the most conservative when it comes to what they assume and expect from their spouse.

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It's not as hypocritical, and more understandable than it first appears.

One of the main drives behind the desire to find a partner, in the majority of cases, is the urge to reproduce. Women are always guaranteed that the child they produce is their own, their biological function is fulfilled, their genetic material passed on.

However, a man always has to take the woman's word for it that the child is his (ignoring the modern day capablity for DNA testing, which if insisted upon would kill any trust present in the relationship).

If the lady is sleeping with all and sundry, then the man runs the very real risk of failing to pass his genetic information on, from a biological point of view this is a catastrophe for him. His need to be able to trust his partner is significantly greater or else he may unwittingly end up in a situation where he raises another mans child. This situation is not uncommon.

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Sorry, not convinced this is a major factor. I think bottom line is, it hurts to be cheated on, and there is still among many men (not all, of course) a sense of double standard which really just boils down to selfishness and immaturity... caring more about one's one feelings than that of the spouse/partner.

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Going back to this point, which was lauded by some as 'insightful', i find the implication that men are more likely to be selfish, immature and prone to double standards than their female counterparts to be wildly innacurate, and quite frankly misandristic.

Think all you want, until you have been a woman you don't really have a clue, do you?

Don't have a clue about what? On the contrary, i would say that a woman offering her own opinion, from her female perspective, on the subject of what influences male behaviour is more likely to be removed from the truth, wouldn't you?