New Car, But Engine Is Constantly 'Pinging' (Or 'Knocking')

[Kwasaki]

Sounds like an ECU (on board computer) problem. The ride must be connected to a Toyota Main Agent computer which will diagnose the problem.

Hi TransAm,

I thought I might offer an update here:

Several months ago, Toyota sent a customer service rep from Bangkok (I’m in Chiang Mai) to oversee the process of collecting data on their handheld computer while the car was being driven, in order to hopefully determine the source of the problem. So I drove around near the dealership with three Toyota guys in the car (one of which was the rep) for about 10 minutes while the data was being collected. Beforehand, the rep asked me to tell him whenever I heard the pinging, which I did during the drive. At the time, I was under the impression that data was being collected during the entire drive, so I thought his request for me to report hearing the pinging was only for his benefit, so that he could determine if he heard it as well. Unfortunately, after we returned to the dealership, they told me that the computer was NOT collecting data during the entire drive, and that it could only collect data in 6-second increments, which the technician had apparently been doing while we were in the car. I have no idea when he started and stopped this data collection process, and whether it was being collected during the pinging episodes or not. Of course, they reported that the computer said everything was within the normal limits.

Fast forward to now: as the car is still 'pinging', I recently sent a very explicit email message about this on the Toyota website, and received a call back the next day from Toyota Bangkok, saying that they would get in touch with the dealer (that I purchased the car from), and that the dealer would contact me about a solution to the problem. Of course, I received no further contact, and so I decided to send an email to the Toyota representative who I met with the first time they tried to diagnose the problem, asking for his help. So here we are a week later, and I still have no reply from him, or anyone else.

I've owned (and serviced) cars since 1972, and I know the sound of an engine when it's pinging (or technically speaking, "knocking"). So it galls me to drive around in what is essentially a new car (11K kilometers) with a pinging engine, because the manufacturer has basically chosen to thumb its nose at me.

One of the things I would like to consider is whether the ECU in the car is the correct one. When I asked Toyota if they could tell me the correct part number for the ECU which should be in the car, they said there was no information available about that. So I've included a picture of the ECU ID tag, which shows the model number, serial number, etc. For what it's worth, the numbers on the tag, from upper to lower, are:

89661-0DA61

212000-3911 12V

*2003911G*

Wondering if you could tell me how to confirm whether this is the correct ECU? I also happen to be wondering about the green pen mark diagonally through the tag, and what this might mean, if anything. As a reminder, this is a 2011 Vios model G, 1.5 vvti. As you can tell, I'm grasping at straws here! Many thanks for any feedback.

I'll just jump in here before Trans does, the Yaris my wife has is the same engine as the Vios, when the battery went dead throttle response was one of the things affected, we had take it into Toyota to set up the ECU and check everything was OK.

The engineer sat in the car while stationary at idle to go through the procedure, the ECU was reset to the factory spec and it ran fine.

I would say Warby is thinking along the right lines and if you have not had the knock sensor changed, get it done as part of the elimination process.

These engines are one of the best and reliable ever made, I doubt if it is ECU, have you tried contacting Toyota in Japan I have found they are usually very helpful, they are with motorcycles anyhow.

Maybe as you have already been told, have you tried a different Toyota company or a independent specialist.

[WarpSpeed]

I'm not a car engineer, but from what I remember from my days tinkering with/tuning motorbikes, I was of the impression that an engine constantly running pinging will self destruct in not that many km's.

Pinging, i.e. the mixture igniting before the piston reaches tdc, places a tremendous amount of stress on the engine.

I have seen such damaged engines, usually bad tuning (ignition too far advanced) maybe combined with too low octane fuel, and they did'nt look pretty.

Hence I kind of wonder how the OP's engine keeps doing this for 14,000 + km...

Yep like a hammer hitting the top of the piston every time it comes up, it will put a hole through the top eventually.. Fortunately his car is new and it doesn't rev like a motorbike..

Edited January 27, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[funlovinkid]

An additional update: I took the car to a different dealer in Chiang Mai (in this case, Nakorn Ping), explained the problem, and similar to my first diagnostic experience, they had me drive around in the car with a mechanic and the English-speaking rep, along with their diagnostic computer. Similar to before, the mechanic reported that the computer was showing everything normal. However, this time the mechanic did agree that he was clearly hearing the knocking sound, and so when we returned to the dealer, he suggested to his superiors that we make an effort to drive the car with some sort of audio recording device in the engine compartment, which they apparently have available. Consequently, I have made an appointment for this for next week. Their intention is to send the audio recording to Toyota in Bangkok to have them draw their own conclusions. Because a Toyota employee has finally confirmed what I've been hearing all along, I consider this somewhat of a victory, but still have serious doubts if it will lead to anything useful.

In the meantime, I've decided to follow the advice of a couple of people earlier in the thread (thank you, WarpSpeed and Kwasaki), and ordered a new knock sensor, which will be installed the day after they make the audio recording. If replacing the knock sensor resolves the problem, it's possible that Toyota will use the audio recording to justify refunding my expense (around 4300 baht, total), but I'm certainly not counting on it. If the knock sensor replacement doesn't work, and if Toyota doesn't come up with a solution based on the audio recording, other than selling the car and buying a Honda, I'm officially out of ideas.

[BSJ]

I may have missed it......has anyone suggested you disconnect the battery which will kill power to the ECU. Once reconnected it will fall back to it's basic factory settings until you have driven it for a while.

[WarpSpeed]

An additional update: I took the car to a different dealer in Chiang Mai (in this case, Nakorn Ping), explained the problem, and similar to my first diagnostic experience, they had me drive around in the car with a mechanic and the English-speaking rep, along with their diagnostic computer. Similar to before, the mechanic reported that the computer was showing everything normal. However, this time the mechanic did agree that he was clearly hearing the knocking sound, and so when we returned to the dealer, he suggested to his superiors that we make an effort to drive the car with some sort of audio recording device in the engine compartment, which they apparently have available. Consequently, I have made an appointment for this for next week. Their intention is to send the audio recording to Toyota in Bangkok to have them draw their own conclusions. Because a Toyota employee has finally confirmed what I've been hearing all along, I consider this somewhat of a victory, but still have serious doubts if it will lead to anything useful.

In the meantime, I've decided to follow the advice of a couple of people earlier in the thread (thank you, WarpSpeed and Kwasaki), and ordered a new knock sensor, which will be installed the day after they make the audio recording. If replacing the knock sensor resolves the problem, it's possible that Toyota will use the audio recording to justify refunding my expense (around 4300 baht, total), but I'm certainly not counting on it. If the knock sensor replacement doesn't work, and if Toyota doesn't come up with a solution based on the audio recording, other than selling the car and buying a Honda, I'm officially out of ideas.

Thanks for the shout out, at least now you have another technician who has acknowledged you're not a complete loon so there is some satisfaction in that, hope it works out for ya..

-BSJ no one suggested that but according to the OP it's not showing any signs of being out of spec. He has no CEL lights indicating any issues and the technicians have not detected any faults in the system so sadly disconnecting the battery is not likely to make much diff.

[funlovinkid]

Hopefully a final update here: I followed through with the appointment with Nakorn Ping described above, and I made it as clear as possible that I wanted to be the person driving the car during the "audio" recording (because I wanted to oversee the entire recording process). So I went to their waiting room to have a coffee and wait for them to let me know that the car was ready for the test drive and audio recording. Unfortunately, after about 90 minutes, I walked around to find (and check on) the car, and found that they already had the engine apart, in the process of installing the new knock sensor. When I complained, they said that the mechanic had already made the necessary recording, and they eventually showed me an audio/video recording which had been taken from a laptop in the passenger compartment during the test drive. Since I had previously been under the impression that they had some ability to place an audio recording device directly into the engine compartment, I was not happy with this ridiculous laptop recording, which I knew wouldn't provide enough audio evidence of engine knocking for Toyota Bangkok to reach an informed conclusion about my problem. I explained to the rep that I was hoping that the audio recording would provide sufficient evidence of engine knocking that the people at Toyota Bangkok would later reimburse me for my expenses, and that now this wouldn't be possible.

To their credit, when the rep at Nakorn Ping saw how pissed off I was, they made the effort to contact the Toyota Bangkok people directly, who granted them approval to replace the knock sensor without any charge to me, as a courtesy. So they reimbursed the deposit amount that I had paid for the purchase of the knock sensor, and I came away with a new knock sensor already installed. They did ask me to sign a statement to the effect that this was being done purely as a courtesy, and that I could no longer officially complain about the problem.

The next day, I took a road trip from Chiang Mai to Sukhothai, and returned about 4 days later. During this 800K trip, I experienced much less knocking than I would have expected with the original knock sensor. And, subsequently driving around Chiang Mai, the knocking also seems to be significantly less than before. Although I can still hear "light" knocking occasionally, I'm at a point where I feel that it's no longer a serious problem, and I can take comfort in the knowledge that I have a new car which will hopefully last a long time. My bottom line conclusion: yes, it was a bad knock sensor. Unfortunately, getting an auto manufacturer as large as Toyota to recognize and resolve a subtle problem like this, especially in the absence of any computer malfunction code on their diagnostic equipment, requires moving heaven and earth.

Many thanks to all the input from the interested parties above!

[kartman]

Glad it's better but having to sign away your right not to complain about a vehicle thats under warranty takes the biscuit, i think a test drive first with the rep back to your home where you could tell him what to do with the statement would have been better.(of course offering him the Taxi fare back to Nakorn Ping)

[WarpSpeed]

Thanks for the update, glad you've gotten some satisfaction but like kartman says it seems at a potential cost, I think I would have balked at that coercion to be honest, it's so typically Thai to put you into a catch 22 to force a way out of future responsibility but hopefully you won't have any more major problems from this point on.

Edited February 16, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[Kwasaki]

Well I glad you have some kind of solution even though not satisfactory IMO.

All I can say now is if you can find someone with a car the same maybe they would be kind enough to let you ride in it and you could compare, or maybe arrange a test drive in a new one or secondhand one.

My wife's Yaris is the same engine as I have said before and the only knocking heard if you can call it that is at tick-over while the cams are rattling around.

Disconnected the battery will not resolve the situation if that is done a trip back to Toyota's is the only way to get the ECU recalibrated, I say this out of experience as to the Toyota vvt 1.5 engine.

[transam]

I would not be happy with your outcome. You must talk via Toyota's head office. You know you could have an internal engine malfunction causing the noise which a knock sensor/ignition + - cannot deal with. Toooooo late when your warranty is finished.

[Kwasaki]

I would not be happy with your outcome. You must talk via Toyota's head office. You know you could have an internal engine malfunction causing the noise which a knock sensor/ignition + - cannot deal with. Toooooo late when your warranty is finished.

Well my cyber friend who moved from Udon to Ubon without telling me.

His knock sensor replacement should of alleviated the noise he is hearing but he said he just experienced much less knocking than before, certainly something still very wrong.

Your dead right about sorting it within warranty but what I was trying to suggest in making comparisons was because I was thinking about that you start to hear things that you didn't at first when the car was new.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Kwasaki

[BSJ]

I am with Trans Am, your solution to the problem hasn't been found as your still got engine knock. Quieter maybe, but still there. You need a proper engine management assessment done. Is there a performance car garage nearby? Some performance car techies live for problems like yours.

[WarpSpeed]

Yes, seems at minimum to be a stop gap resolution and not the entire issue at hand.. I wonder now if it's possible the new sensor is working properly but not calibrated with the ECU having had an apparently bad sensor previously and it has resolved some but not all of the issue? I think Kawasaki is on the right track to see if he can ride in another car to make a comparison.. Obviously the real difficulty here now is even getting Toyota to listen (both to you and to the car) and in that case T/A may be onto it in calling Japan directly..

As I said they are very well known here for deflection and not dealing with issues such as this but merely coercing and befuddling customers to get past the warrantee period and then you're SOL...

If you do not get any satisfaction it might time to seriously consider a trade or resale and get out while you can..

Edited February 16, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[monty]

It has not been resolved.

I also would get out while you can.

Your engine will be getting nowhere near it's projected lifespan.

When pinging is bad enough you can hear it, damage is being inflicted on your engine.

On every ignition cycle (every 4 revolutions per cilinder) your piston is being hit with a hammer at the wrong time, before reaching tdc, creating much higher loads on the piston, conrod, crankshaft and all their bearings.

All these parts are now set for pre-mature failure, if unlucky very shortly after expiry of warranty.

Any of the above parts failing at a heavy engine load can see your engine totally self destructing!

If lucky it happens at idle, but it'll still need a total engine rebuild (likely a replacement engine will economically be the best)...

Modern engines like yours last for several 100k km's without major problems (running lpg/cng might need a top-end job only somewhere down the line).

I daresay your engine will be getting nowhere there...

[funlovinkid]

Hmm, lots of good information here, subsequent to my last post. I do understand internal combustion engines, having been an enthusiastic teenager in the past, with a V8 4-speed '65 Mustang that I tortured, and maintained, for my first 7 years of driving. I've rebuilt transmissions, differentials, replaced clutches, even replacing an engine (although I've never actually rebuilt an engine). Anyway, I understand what pre-ignition knocking is, and the possible ramifications.

However, I must say that I never considered what Monty is referring to above, which is premature engine failure due to an extended period of knocking. I had been worried about one of the pistons failing, but never pondered the possibility of bearing failure. I'm afraid the collective thinking above is probably correct, in that maybe I should sell the car while the warranty is still valid. Ah, sh*t!

Edited February 17, 2013 by funlovinkid

[monty]

The good old American engines (small and big block V8's), likely had much more over engineering in it, making failures even after bad abuse much less likely.

Unfortunately small Jap engines churning out almost as much HP as a 60's American V8 (albeit with a slightly different torque curve :lol: ) are designed to operate in a specific way, and any deviation, how small it might be, could have nasty results...

Not being American, I grew up with 4 cylinder engines, but even those used to be pretty strong! Volvo red blocks (B230) engines could be tuned to almost double power without worrying to much about internals! They wouldn't mind a bit of "knocking"

Times have changed...

[transam]

The good old American engines (small and big block V8's), likely had much more over engineering in it, making failures even after bad abuse much less likely.

Unfortunately small Jap engines churning out almost as much HP as a 60's American V8 (albeit with a slightly different torque curve ) are designed to operate in a specific way, and any deviation, how small it might be, could have nasty results...

Not being American, I grew up with 4 cylinder engines, but even those used to be pretty strong! Volvo red blocks (B230) engines could be tuned to almost double power without worrying to much about internals! They wouldn't mind a bit of "knocking"

Times have changed...

Did you know that many F1 turbo engines were based on a BMW 1500cc 4 pot.

[StefanBBK]

This may be of help, since you are grasping at straws.

Many of the small repair shops here in Bangkok and probably as well in CM have the Toyota diagnostic program on their laptops. Hoe about stopping at one of these "grandpa" garages and let them have a look?

If they manage to fix it, you could take the bill back to Toyota....

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[monty]

The good old American engines (small and big block V8's), likely had much more over engineering in it, making failures even after bad abuse much less likely.

Unfortunately small Jap engines churning out almost as much HP as a 60's American V8 (albeit with a slightly different torque curve ) are designed to operate in a specific way, and any deviation, how small it might be, could have nasty results...

Not being American, I grew up with 4 cylinder engines, but even those used to be pretty strong! Volvo red blocks (B230) engines could be tuned to almost double power without worrying to much about internals! They wouldn't mind a bit of "knocking"

Times have changed...

Did you know that many F1 turbo engines were based on a BMW 1500cc 4 pot.

Yup,

but they don't last that many miles

[Lickey]

OP, have you tried heel and toeing your car?

To explain, start the engine, select 2/3rd gear or D [auto] hold the brake pedal down with the top of your right foot, press the acelerator with the heel while letting the clutch pedal up slowly till the engine is working hard, if its gonna pink it will do it then, dont worry, you wont hurt the clutch, 10 seconds should be long enough, this way, you have to mess about with under-bonnet listening crap, and the "techs" can hear the problem..

[funlovinkid]

OP, have you tried heel and toeing your car?

To explain, start the engine, select 2/3rd gear or D [auto] hold the brake pedal down with the top of your right foot, press the acelerator with the heel while letting the clutch pedal up slowly till the engine is working hard, if its gonna pink it will do it then, dont worry, you wont hurt the clutch, 10 seconds should be long enough, this way, you have to mess about with under-bonnet listening crap, and the "techs" can hear the problem..

Hi Lickey, thanks for the suggestion. The car has an automatic transmission, and yes, I actually have tried what you suggest, but it doesn't seem to ping when I do this. The pinging normally seems to occur when accelerating lightly while the car is moving relatively slowly, but in a high gear. For example, if the transmission has automatically shifted into 3rd or 4th gear, and then I allow the car to slow a bit, and then lightly accelerate, it will often ping because the engine is lugging a bit under the circumstances.

[funlovinkid]

Hi Lickey, thanks for the suggestion. The car has an automatic transmission, and yes, I actually have tried what you suggest, but it doesn't seem to ping when I do this. The pinging normally occurs when accelerating lightly while the car is moving relatively slowly, but in a high gear. For example, if the transmission has automatically shifted into 3rd or 4th gear, and then I allow the car to slow a bit, and then lightly accelerate, it will often ping because the engine is lugging a bit under the circumstances.

One thing that I've been pondering is whether it's possible to confirm whether the ECU (and/or any computer chips inside) are correct for the car. In that regard, I've heard from several Thais that a lot of computer chips get swapped around inside used mobile phones which are sold in the mom 'n' pop phone shops. The customer thinks they're buying quality equipment for a good price, but the internal components are inferior quality (and performance), and of course, much cheaper for the seller.

Because I didn't notice any pinging when I first bought the car, and only began to notice it at around the 6-month mark, I can't help but wonder if something related to the ECU got swapped out at some point. Because the newer cars will burn 10% or even 20% ethanol gasohol fuels, which are considerably cheaper than the benzene equivalent, I can't help but wonder if there's a black market for the ECU's (or the relevant chips inside) from the newer cars. Assuming these parts are physically compatible with older cars, the potential cost savings for the buyer could be substantial over time. If my 2011 ECU (or chips) were replaced with older versions at some point, it might explain the onset of the pinging.

Sorry if I'm sounding a little paranoid here, but I know how popular it can be to "cut corners" in this country, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm grasping at straws. Does anyone know how I can verify that I have the correct ECU and/or internal chips?

Edited February 25, 2013 by funlovinkid

[roadrunner300]

I have a new (2011) Toyota Vios with 5K kilometers on it, which has been
through both the 1K and 10K mileage checkups at the Toyota dealer with
no problems found. However, the engine is constantly 'pinging' (also
known as 'knocking', I believe), regardless of the fuel I use. I always
use at least grade 91 'benzene' (not gasohol), which is sometimes
marked as '91 Unleaded' at the pump. I took it to the dealership a
couple days ago and carefully explained the problem, but they
pooh-poohed it and said if there were any problems with the fuel/air
mixture (or anything else which could explain the pinging), there would
be a warning light on the driver's console. They ended up telling me to
get my fuel from either Shell or Esso, and to avoid the other fuel
stations. I then filled it up completely with '91 Unleaded' at the
nearest Shell station, and the pinging continues.

My mom in law has a 2008 Toyota Vios also an automatic and its does the same thing

you describe here .

Me and my gf took it with us on a holiday in 2008 with very low milage on it at that time

Nobody else heard anything but me as a trained car-mechanic heard it right away.

We used 95 petrol fuel only from several branches PTT ,Shell,and others it just stayed.

At this day she run over 300.000 km with it she drive al over the country for her job

So if its any comfort for you its still knocking but also still running ok.

No serious repairs so far concerning the engine.

[roadrunner300]

Hi Lickey, thanks for the suggestion. The car has an automatic transmission, and yes, I actually have tried what you suggest, but it doesn't seem to ping when I do this. The pinging normally occurs when accelerating lightly while the car is moving relatively slowly, but in a high gear. For example, if the transmission has automatically shifted into 3rd or 4th gear, and then I allow the car to slow a bit, and then lightly accelerate, it will often ping because the engine is lugging a bit under the circumstances.

One thing that I've been pondering is whether it's possible to confirm whether the ECU (and/or any computer chips inside) are correct for the car. In that regard, I've heard from several Thais that a lot of computer chips get swapped around inside used mobile phones which are sold in the mom 'n' pop phone shops. The customer thinks they're buying quality equipment for a good price, but the internal components are inferior quality (and performance), and of course, much cheaper for the seller.

Because I didn't notice any pinging when I first bought the car, and only began to notice it at around the 6-month mark, I can't help but wonder if something related to the ECU got swapped out at some point. Because the newer cars will burn 10% or even 20% ethanol gasohol fuels, which are considerably cheaper than the benzene equivalent, I can't help but wonder if there's a black market for the ECU's (or the relevant chips inside) from the newer cars. Assuming these parts are physically compatible with older cars, the potential cost savings for the buyer could be substantial over time. If my 2011 ECU (or chips) were replaced with older versions at some point, it might explain the onset of the pinging.

Sorry if I'm sounding a little paranoid here, but I know how popular it can be to "cut corners" in this country, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm grasping at straws. Does anyone know how I can verify that I have the correct ECU and/or internal chips?

About the chips what these thais say using mobile phone chips this is typical thai ghost story.

No phone chip can be used in a car there functions are very different.

Your car wouldn t run at al if they would fit in the socket what I also doubt a lot.

What could have happend is they swapped it with a chinese tuning chip or so, one ment for the car or another car wich is the wrong one or bad quality.

Edited February 25, 2013 by roadrunner300

[funlovinkid]

I have a new (2011) Toyota Vios with 5K kilometers on it, which has been

through both the 1K and 10K mileage checkups at the Toyota dealer with

no problems found. However, the engine is constantly 'pinging' (also

known as 'knocking', I believe), regardless of the fuel I use. I always

use at least grade 91 'benzene' (not gasohol), which is sometimes

marked as '91 Unleaded' at the pump. I took it to the dealership a

couple days ago and carefully explained the problem, but they

pooh-poohed it and said if there were any problems with the fuel/air

mixture (or anything else which could explain the pinging), there would

be a warning light on the driver's console. They ended up telling me to

get my fuel from either Shell or Esso, and to avoid the other fuel

stations. I then filled it up completely with '91 Unleaded' at the

nearest Shell station, and the pinging continues.

My mom in law has a 2008 Toyota Vios also an automatic and its does the same thing

you describe here .

Me and my gf took it with us on a holiday in 2008 with very low milage on it at that time

Nobody else heard anything but me as a trained car-mechanic heard it right away.

We used 95 petrol fuel only from several branches PTT ,Shell,and others it just stayed.

At this day she run over 300.000 km with it she drive al over the country for her job

So if its any comfort for you its still knocking but also still running ok.

No serious repairs so far concerning the engine.

I have a new (2011) Toyota Vios with 5K kilometers on it, which has been

through both the 1K and 10K mileage checkups at the Toyota dealer with

no problems found. However, the engine is constantly 'pinging' (also

known as 'knocking', I believe), regardless of the fuel I use. I always

use at least grade 91 'benzene' (not gasohol), which is sometimes

marked as '91 Unleaded' at the pump. I took it to the dealership a

couple days ago and carefully explained the problem, but they

pooh-poohed it and said if there were any problems with the fuel/air

mixture (or anything else which could explain the pinging), there would

be a warning light on the driver's console. They ended up telling me to

get my fuel from either Shell or Esso, and to avoid the other fuel

stations. I then filled it up completely with '91 Unleaded' at the

nearest Shell station, and the pinging continues.

My mom in law has a 2008 Toyota Vios also an automatic and its does the same thing

you describe here .

Me and my gf took it with us on a holiday in 2008 with very low milage on it at that time

Nobody else heard anything but me as a trained car-mechanic heard it right away.

We used 95 petrol fuel only from several branches PTT ,Shell,and others it just stayed.

At this day she run over 300.000 km with it she drive al over the country for her job

So if its any comfort for you its still knocking but also still running ok.

No serious repairs so far concerning the engine.

Hi Roadrunner,

Thanks for the information, that's good to know. Out of curiosity, what is the fuel she normally uses? I'm wondering if she minimizes the pinging by using the more expensive 95 benzene, or does she just use 91 gasohol like everyone else?

[roadrunner300]

I have a new (2011) Toyota Vios with 5K kilometers on it, which has been

through both the 1K and 10K mileage checkups at the Toyota dealer with

no problems found. However, the engine is constantly 'pinging' (also

known as 'knocking', I believe), regardless of the fuel I use. I always

use at least grade 91 'benzene' (not gasohol), which is sometimes

marked as '91 Unleaded' at the pump. I took it to the dealership a

couple days ago and carefully explained the problem, but they

pooh-poohed it and said if there were any problems with the fuel/air

mixture (or anything else which could explain the pinging), there would

be a warning light on the driver's console. They ended up telling me to

get my fuel from either Shell or Esso, and to avoid the other fuel

stations. I then filled it up completely with '91 Unleaded' at the

nearest Shell station, and the pinging continues.

My mom in law has a 2008 Toyota Vios also an automatic and its does the same thing

you describe here .

Me and my gf took it with us on a holiday in 2008 with very low milage on it at that time

Nobody else heard anything but me as a trained car-mechanic heard it right away.

We used 95 petrol fuel only from several branches PTT ,Shell,and others it just stayed.

At this day she run over 300.000 km with it she drive al over the country for her job

So if its any comfort for you its still knocking but also still running ok.

No serious repairs so far concerning the engine.

>>I have a new (2011) Toyota Vios with 5K kilometers on it, which has been

through both the 1K and 10K mileage checkups at the Toyota dealer with

no problems found. However, the engine is constantly 'pinging' (also

known as 'knocking', I believe), regardless of the fuel I use. I always

use at least grade 91 'benzene' (not gasohol), which is sometimes

marked as '91 Unleaded' at the pump. I took it to the dealership a

couple days ago and carefully explained the problem, but they

pooh-poohed it and said if there were any problems with the fuel/air

mixture (or anything else which could explain the pinging), there would

be a warning light on the driver's console. They ended up telling me to

get my fuel from either Shell or Esso, and to avoid the other fuel

stations. I then filled it up completely with '91 Unleaded' at the

nearest Shell station, and the pinging continues.

My mom in law has a 2008 Toyota Vios also an automatic and its does the same thing

you describe here .

Me and my gf took it with us on a holiday in 2008 with very low milage on it at that time

Nobody else heard anything but me as a trained car-mechanic heard it right away.

We used 95 petrol fuel only from several branches PTT ,Shell,and others it just stayed.

At this day she run over 300.000 km with it she drive al over the country for her job

So if its any comfort for you its still knocking but also still running ok.

No serious repairs so far concerning the engine.

Hi Roadrunner,

Thanks for the information, that's good to know. Out of curiosity, what is the fuel she normally uses? I'm wondering if she minimizes the pinging by using the more expensive 95 benzene, or does she just use 91 gasohol like everyone else?

She runs it 1 liter to 14 km and she puts in gasohol 91 now.

The 95 benzine was only when we drove it.

And its pinging with both the fuels.

Edited February 27, 2013 by roadrunner300

[Kwasaki]

funlovinkid, on 27 Feb 2013 - 13:10, said :-

Thanks for the information, that's good to know. Out of curiosity, what is the fuel she normally uses? I'm wondering if she minimizes the pinging by using the more expensive 95 benzene, or does she just use 91 gasohol like everyone else?

She can run it on E20 as well, the same as you can.

[Crossy]

I'm not a mechanic with 20+ years experience but I am an engineer with 30+.

My 2c worth, shoot it down if you will:-

Modern engines have to run very lean to meet emissions regulations. This means the mixture is right on the edge of detonation, far, far closer to the line than anything we worked on when we were young (yes I repaired and tuned my own engines, because I had to, we had no money and several kids). The tuning is kept on that fine line by the engine management system and its array of sensors.

I suggest that what our highly skilled mechanics are detecting as detonation is just that, very light detonation, but it is within the design parameters of the engine and its management system. A surmission that is supported by the fact that putting higher octane fuel in (which would have killed such a light a pink dead in my day) has zero effect, the management system tunes the mixture and timing so the engine is again right on the line.

When I had my first new car (it was a Rover Montego, I was 30 something) it sounded like it was pinking on acceleration, but putting 4* in it had no effect and the man at the garage said it was normal to hear a light pink under load. 80,000 miles later said car was still on the same engine and still making the same light tinkle. Then I wrapped it round a very solid tree, this cured the pinking dead

Anyone like to add?

[WarpSpeed]

All good points, but knocking isn't just about fuel mixture it's also about mechanical and spark timing, in fact it's more about mechanical and spark timing then it is even about fuel grade so proper programming should be able to correct it for the most part.

On another topic could you please explain why the menu on the top of the post box here is disabledfor me and why I can't seem to sign out, when I do and the page comes up on my next boot up I'm still signed on.. The post is not working right either often splitting words in the middle with space that doesn't exist in my typing.

Edited February 27, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[transam]

All good points, but knocking isn't just about fuel mixture it's also about mechanical and spark timing, in fact it's more about mechanical and spark timing then it is even about fuel grade so proper programming should be able to correct it for the most part.

Warpy is correct. Forget fuel, the management ECU with all it's sensors ''should'' pick up pinking and adjust the timing to compensate. End of story. UNLESS, there is a problem with the hardware.