letitbe Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 No worries, mate! Considering the fact I pay my rent the last day of the rental month, I'll be long gone. well im glad your not our tenant and trust me with your approach you will one day get what you deserve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunta71 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) My landlord took a 28,000B deposit (two months rent) for damages and unpaid bills. He immediatley took the deposit and opened a new restaurant in a shop house. Resaurant failed after two months. Having dealt with scum landlords previously, I did this understanding that there are many homes in my moo baan sitting empty and that the landlord desperately needed to keep the income flow: I said I will not renew the lease and wish to keep on renting month by month w/30 day notice to move out. Also said I wanted to have a dog. AND...wanted my deposit returned over seven months by reducing the rent by 4,000 over that seven months. The landlord had the choice of accepting my proposal or lose the property to the bank. He also saw that we keep his home much cleaner and taken care of than when they lived here. My wife literally has a cleaning obsession...may not work for everyone but did for me. He accepted my proposal after 10 seconds of thought, and now I have my full deposit back minus 4,000 that I told him to hold.That made him feel good. You should teach negotiating skills at our local university! A few years back there was a travel agent who ripped off many expats of literally a couple million baht. My buddy had booked a round trip flight to England and when he wanted to come home found the ticket had been paid only one way. This was this ladies modis operandi and she seemed protected somehow and simply set up a new shop and continued her charade. Most people demanded their money and threatened the lady. They got nothing. My buddy went to her and explained that he understood her problems and asked her to understand that he had verry little income. She agreed to pay him 500 Baht per week until he got all his money back.... Edited March 20, 2012 by bunta71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattayadingo Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'll add that my Thai landlord has gone up in my estimation. See my new topic about 'Welcome back' and the water meter. Maybe my doubts about him have been incorrect. Though he is one of the very few that have been good to me. Shows not all Thai landlords are bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fookhaht Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 No worries, mate! Considering the fact I pay my rent the last day of the rental month, I'll be long gone. well im glad your not our tenant and trust me with your approach you will one day get what you deserve If you were like my landlord, you would also get what you deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 In conclusion, don't rent from farangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelmann Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 As a landlord I have never had a tenant say " im a bad tenant" now Im not saying you are but believe me in 6 years of renting out rooms I would say 1in 20 actually leave a room in a clean good condition when they go. Most are very dirty in fact it is usual they move in and out never having cleaned at all. This is renting out over 60 + rooms as an owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelmann Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Not tried it here but in Hong Kong most people do not pay their last months rent so at least they have some leverage when you move out. Not doing this usually means you get shafted. Never had a problem with unfurnished places but when it has furnishings, it seems that wear and tear (depreciation basically) on these items are taken from the deposit. Agree though, a lot of land lords basically spend the deposit and at the end of the term it feels to them that they are giving you their money and not that they are returning your money. we have let condos for last 15+ years and always take a series of pictures and give a full inventory which we give a copy to our tenants. We also deal with a lot of brokers and all of them without exception here are unprofessional and never do their job properly. We have had tenants say they are withholding the last month or 2 to get back the deposit. When this has happened we politely tell them if you dont pay within 24 hours your electricity and water will be cut off then after another 24 hours since they are totally in breach of their contracts their belongings will be removed and stored and locks changed. We always give back full deposits and often simply forgive minor damage and offer to provide details of previous tenants who will vouch we act fairly and honestly. Most thais consider the deposit a sort of key money and some forang are persuaded to by their silly wives to act like most Thais. We have found over years by being totally honest we hardly ever have any vacant periods since most if not all our tenants highly recommend our services. The worst tenants we have had have been a Thai earning 300,000 baht a month( yes 300,000 baht a month, we insisted on seeing her payslip and bankbooks) and a Japanese couple who surprisingly (given Japanese are mostly really clean) lived in a total mess. As someone said take lots of pictures but even then if your up against a bad Landlord and especially a Thai even that will often be no use. Unless you own the whole building I dont know how you shut off the electric especially if they are paying their monthly bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor35 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If your landlord wants to rip you off, have no doubt, he/she will do it, and there is nothing that you can do. Go to court, yes! but winning against a Thai is another thing. I was ripped off by my landlady. When i moved in i pointed out a mess under the kitchen window where the previous tenant had just dumped things out, staining the paintwork. She said, no problem as they were going to repaint in a couple of months. When i had to leave in an emergency after a few months, leaving my partner to move our goods out. The landlady just refused to give the deposit back because of the mess "we had supposedly made" of the wall under the kitchen window. When i came back i went to see her, but got the same answer each time "sorry, she no home" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mca Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Apologies for the aside but when I first moved to Khon Kaen I rented a flat in an apartment block. All went well for the first few months until the owner decided to remove UBC and install the local cable TV ( consisting of French chat shows and Vietnamese dramas etc ) and reduce the number of inclusive laundry from 60 to 40 pieces per month while at the same time increasing the rent by 1000 baht. She seemed genuinely surprised when me and 3 other expats all moved out within a week of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelmann Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If your landlord wants to rip you off, have no doubt, he/she will do it, and there is nothing that you can do. Go to court, yes! but winning against a Thai is another thing. I was ripped off by my landlady. When i moved in i pointed out a mess under the kitchen window where the previous tenant had just dumped things out, staining the paintwork. She said, no problem as they were going to repaint in a couple of months. When i had to leave in an emergency after a few months, leaving my partner to move our goods out. The landlady just refused to give the deposit back because of the mess "we had supposedly made" of the wall under the kitchen window. When i came back i went to see her, but got the same answer each time "sorry, she no home" When you had to leave in an emergency................. so you terminated the contract early? = loss of deposit in most cases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draftvader Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I never have a problem with doing a review of damage and breakage together on check out day but if some joker did as you suggested I'd forward the info to immigration w the departure card and passport which prevents you from leaving the country at any immigration point until that was remedied. Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com I personlly know a guy who submitted an emergency repair bill with a deduction from his rent - all exactly as per his rental contract allowed. His Thai landlady responded by turnining up with a gun weilding thug in tow to demand the repair money he had rightly deducted from the rent. As he said at the time, she had terrified him and his family over a few hundred Bht. He didn't need telling he was never going to get his deposit back. He left Thailand without giving his landlady notice and a smile on his face iver the thought of her turning up with her thug when the next rent was late, to find him and his family gone and every single surface in the house painted gloss black and purple. He left one small patch un painted. That's where he stuck the troublesome bill. I like this and I run an apartment block. If I behaved in that way I would expect this kind of behaviour. My approach is to, when notice is served, perform an early inspection with the tenant. We work out anything that might need repairing, agree who is responsible then I will help the tenant get the items, workers and they can settled the bills directly. At the end of the month they get their deposit back and they KNOW they have paid the right amount. This approach has led to our apartment block getting clients to return time and time again. Our most "repetitive" client is on stay number 4 right now! Funny thing is that the Thai owners and their peers always ask how I do it but still bang on about retaining deposits. Mind you, over 4 years, these complaints have reduced to mutterings as they watch steady profits entering their bank account every month 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draftvader Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Not tried it here but in Hong Kong most people do not pay their last months rent so at least they have some leverage when you move out. Not doing this usually means you get shafted. Never had a problem with unfurnished places but when it has furnishings, it seems that wear and tear (depreciation basically) on these items are taken from the deposit. Agree though, a lot of land lords basically spend the deposit and at the end of the term it feels to them that they are giving you their money and not that they are returning your money. we have let condos for last 15+ years and always take a series of pictures and give a full inventory which we give a copy to our tenants. We also deal with a lot of brokers and all of them without exception here are unprofessional and never do their job properly. We have had tenants say they are withholding the last month or 2 to get back the deposit. When this has happened we politely tell them if you dont pay within 24 hours your electricity and water will be cut off then after another 24 hours since they are totally in breach of their contracts their belongings will be removed and stored and locks changed. We always give back full deposits and often simply forgive minor damage and offer to provide details of previous tenants who will vouch we act fairly and honestly. Most thais consider the deposit a sort of key money and some forang are persuaded to by their silly wives to act like most Thais. We have found over years by being totally honest we hardly ever have any vacant periods since most if not all our tenants highly recommend our services. The worst tenants we have had have been a Thai earning 300,000 baht a month( yes 300,000 baht a month, we insisted on seeing her payslip and bankbooks) and a Japanese couple who surprisingly (given Japanese are mostly really clean) lived in a total mess. As someone said take lots of pictures but even then if your up against a bad Landlord and especially a Thai even that will often be no use. Unless you own the whole building I dont know how you shut off the electric especially if they are paying their monthly bill? Every apartment will have a seperate breaker switch in a maintenance cupboard. This is for safety purposes, but also allows individual apartment control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Beachyman, i dont think GuestHouse was suggesting doing a runner on the bills. Talking of which, prior to the Gestapo encounter, i had emailed to say the electric bill had not yet come in, and that if it did not come by key handover, to of course deduct it from the deposit. All other bills (condo maintenance fee etc) paid, and receipts were shown during key handover. I think what really gets me is the treatment, because i was perfectly willing to discuss and amend any damages or concerns. Im non aggressive and prefer problems to be handled in a diplomatic way, and i think thats obvious to people. I believe they probably considered me an easy target. If my boyfriend had of been there, without a doubt he wouldnt have handled it so politely as i! Yeah, spot on. They took advantage of you because they figured they could. Your deposit is simply more income to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasRanger Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The idea is not to withold the rent for the last couple of months for no reason, 2 months prior to exit invite the owner/agent to check the place out and agree on the state of the place and what they would reasonably expect to deduct for cleaning/repairs. Then of course if when you leave you have a farewell party and trash the place, you lose all deposit, although if they were my tenants, loss of deposit would just be the beginning. For me I rent a holiday home near the beach so if anyone pulls the electricity/water bit I'll just go back to my house and they will lose their rent. Of course like all cases, it depends on the owners, I came to the sad realisation many years ago that some people have no concept of loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I never have a problem with doing a review of damage and breakage together on check out day but if some joker did as you suggested I'd forward the info to immigration w the departure card and passport which prevents you from leaving the country at any immigration point until that was remedied. Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com I personlly know a guy who submitted an emergency repair bill with a deduction from his rent - all exactly as per his rental contract allowed. His Thai landlady responded by turnining up with a gun weilding thug in tow to demand the repair money he had rightly deducted from the rent. As he said at the time, she had terrified him and his family over a few hundred Bht. He didn't need telling he was never going to get his deposit back. He left Thailand without giving his landlady notice and a smile on his face iver the thought of her turning up with her thug when the next rent was late, to find him and his family gone and every single surface in the house painted gloss black and purple. He left one small patch un painted. That's where he stuck the troublesome bill. Classic Landlady probably changed her behaviour after that episode. Now she asks for a larger deposit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilgore Trout Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 As a landlord I have never had a tenant say " im a bad tenant" now Im not saying you are but believe me in 6 years of renting out rooms I would say 1in 20 actually leave a room in a clean good condition when they go. Most are very dirty in fact it is usual they move in and out never having cleaned at all. This is renting out over 60 + rooms as an owner. Well its a good thing that the cost of having an empty room cleaned (save for whatever sparse furniture the landlord provides) costs as much or less than a few hundred baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor35 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If your landlord wants to rip you off, have no doubt, he/she will do it, and there is nothing that you can do. Go to court, yes! but winning against a Thai is another thing. I was ripped off by my landlady. When i moved in i pointed out a mess under the kitchen window where the previous tenant had just dumped things out, staining the paintwork. She said, no problem as they were going to repaint in a couple of months. When i had to leave in an emergency after a few months, leaving my partner to move our goods out. The landlady just refused to give the deposit back because of the mess "we had supposedly made" of the wall under the kitchen window. When i came back i went to see her, but got the same answer each time "sorry, she no home" When you had to leave in an emergency................. so you terminated the contract early? = loss of deposit in most cases No contract whatsoever, so i was entitled to leave at any time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wana Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If your landlord wants to rip you off, have no doubt, he/she will do it, and there is nothing that you can do. Go to court, yes! but winning against a Thai is another thing. I was ripped off by my landlady. When i moved in i pointed out a mess under the kitchen window where the previous tenant had just dumped things out, staining the paintwork. She said, no problem as they were going to repaint in a couple of months. When i had to leave in an emergency after a few months, leaving my partner to move our goods out. The landlady just refused to give the deposit back because of the mess "we had supposedly made" of the wall under the kitchen window. When i came back i went to see her, but got the same answer each time "sorry, she no home" When you had to leave in an emergency................. so you terminated the contract early? = loss of deposit in most cases No contract whatsoever, so i was entitled to leave at any time ! well,you may see it that way ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor35 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If your landlord wants to rip you off, have no doubt, he/she will do it, and there is nothing that you can do. Go to court, yes! but winning against a Thai is another thing. I was ripped off by my landlady. When i moved in i pointed out a mess under the kitchen window where the previous tenant had just dumped things out, staining the paintwork. She said, no problem as they were going to repaint in a couple of months. When i had to leave in an emergency after a few months, leaving my partner to move our goods out. The landlady just refused to give the deposit back because of the mess "we had supposedly made" of the wall under the kitchen window. When i came back i went to see her, but got the same answer each time "sorry, she no home" When you had to leave in an emergency................. so you terminated the contract early? = loss of deposit in most cases No contract whatsoever, so i was entitled to leave at any time ! well,you may see it that way ...... Get into your thick skull, this was not about term of stay contract, but to supposedly damaged paintwork which she knew perfectly well i had NOT done. It was just a scam to get more income and probably worked for the next tenant also !.............understand now ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wana Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 sorry.....skull too thick ..... next!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 This is why I don't plan on waiting to "get back" my deposit. I plan on "taking it back." I plan to wait until the last month I plan to live here, and notify the owner by making my last month's rent payment minus the amount of the deposit. My rationale: Not only have I kept the place in excellent condition, I have made considerable improvements (window screens, gates, adding light fixtures and an air-conditioning unit,, etc.) Meanwhile I have been continually repainting, fixing doors and windows,, replacing almost all the electrical outlets/switches, and replacing many plumbing parts. All this over 8 years, at my own expense. I have always requested that the owner cover the normal maintenance (including a severely-leaking roof), but all requests have been ignored. When I leave, I believe it's worth a try to attempt my own version of justice. If you don't mind taking risks, go for it, but be prepared to cave quickly if they call your bluff. I had a friend that was put in hospital over a month, thugs beat him badly with big sticks. He was never able to prove it was over just such a dispute, but he wasn't engaged in any other conflicts at the time. Usually better to chalk it up to a cheap lessons learned and be able to walk away. In this case: Thai landlords often keep the deposit regardless. The tenant is expected to pay for any needed repairs, including things that would be covered by tenant-protection laws back home. They may have such laws here, but you'd see a snowball pig fly in hell before a farang could seek redress under them, without spending a lot more money than what's at stake. You have no rights here, and mess with the wrong Thai and you may run across some very "bad luck" and have no idea where it came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 No worries, mate! Considering the fact I pay my rent the last day of the rental month, I'll be long gone. well im glad your not our tenant and trust me with your approach you will one day get what you deserve If you were like my landlord, you would also get what you deserved. No worries, mate! Considering the fact I pay my rent the last day of the rental month, I'll be long gone. well im glad your not our tenant and trust me with your approach you will one day get what you deserve If you were like my landlord, you would also get what you deserved. i doubt it and i very much doubt youd ever be accepted as a tenant. In fact all our property is in my Thai wifes name and although we never rip off tenants anyone tries anything her cousin in immigration and her brother as police chief soon make them wish they had behaved properly. Others never get any problem from us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 This is why I don't plan on waiting to "get back" my deposit. I plan on "taking it back." I plan to wait until the last month I plan to live here, and notify the owner by making my last month's rent payment minus the amount of the deposit. My rationale: Not only have I kept the place in excellent condition, I have made considerable improvements (window screens, gates, adding light fixtures and an air-conditioning unit,, etc.) Meanwhile I have been continually repainting, fixing doors and windows,, replacing almost all the electrical outlets/switches, and replacing many plumbing parts. All this over 8 years, at my own expense. I have always requested that the owner cover the normal maintenance (including a severely-leaking roof), but all requests have been ignored. When I leave, I believe it's worth a try to attempt my own version of justice. If you don't mind taking risks, go for it, but be prepared to cave quickly if they call your bluff. I had a friend that was put in hospital over a month, thugs beat him badly with big sticks. He was never able to prove it was over just such a dispute, but he wasn't engaged in any other conflicts at the time. Usually better to chalk it up to a cheap lessons learned and be able to walk away. In this case: Thai landlords often keep the deposit regardless. The tenant is expected to pay for any needed repairs, including things that would be covered by tenant-protection laws back home. They may have such laws here, but you'd see a snowball pig fly in hell before a farang could seek redress under them, without spending a lot more money than what's at stake. You have no rights here, and mess with the wrong Thai and you may run across some very "bad luck" and have no idea where it came from. I think Fookhaht answered that a few posts later by saying he pays rent on the last day of the month... After 8 years in the one place, I wouldn't be worried if I lost a deposit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 As a landlord I have never had a tenant say " im a bad tenant" now Im not saying you are but believe me in 6 years of renting out rooms I would say 1in 20 actually leave a room in a clean good condition when they go. Most are very dirty in fact it is usual they move in and out never having cleaned at all. This is renting out over 60 + rooms as an owner. As a landlord I have never had a tenant say " im a bad tenant" now Im not saying you are but believe me in 6 years of renting out rooms I would say 1in 20 actually leave a room in a clean good condition when they go. Most are very dirty in fact it is usual they move in and out never having cleaned at all. This is renting out over 60 + rooms as an owner. thats one of reasons for the deposit Simply deduct reasonable cleaning charges but my wife makes it very clear if tenant prefers we can arrange final cleaning for 500-1000 baht. Some are happy to let us do it but its their choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Unless you own the whole building I dont know how you shut off the electric especially if they are paying their monthly bill? its easy electricity is always in my wifes name and anyway as owner of condo she has every right to get electric metor cut off and water and condo management would never refuse but threat has always been enough although she would do it and also within 24-48 hours have tenants goods removed and locks changed if tenant ever tried to use deposit for last months rent. she also always returns deposit in full if no damage and place left clean but will not put up with any nonsense especially from stupid forangs. It has never come to it but a visit from her brothers staff at police station can easily be arranged for any forang silly enough to try and cheat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilgore Trout Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Unless you own the whole building I dont know how you shut off the electric especially if they are paying their monthly bill? its easy electricity is always in my wifes name and anyway as owner of condo she has every right to get electric metor cut off and water and condo management would never refuse but threat has always been enough although she would do it and also within 24-48 hours have tenants goods removed and locks changed if tenant ever tried to use deposit for last months rent. she also always returns deposit in full if no damage and place left clean but will not put up with any nonsense especially from stupid forangs. It has never come to it but a visit from her brothers staff at police station can easily be arranged for any forang silly enough to try and cheat Whether you guys are honest or not, letitbe, you sound like the biggest jerk on the planet. Like a little kid on the playground; I'll get my big brother after you!!" Except in your case, its your wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Unless you own the whole building I dont know how you shut off the electric especially if they are paying their monthly bill? its easy electricity is always in my wifes name and anyway as owner of condo she has every right to get electric metor cut off and water and condo management would never refuse but threat has always been enough although she would do it and also within 24-48 hours have tenants goods removed and locks changed if tenant ever tried to use deposit for last months rent. she also always returns deposit in full if no damage and place left clean but will not put up with any nonsense especially from stupid forangs. It has never come to it but a visit from her brothers staff at police station can easily be arranged for any forang silly enough to try and cheat Whether you guys are honest or not, letitbe, you sound like the biggest jerk on the planet. Like a little kid on the playground; I'll get my big brother after you!!" Except in your case, its your wife Im sure she wears the pants in the relation too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot1988 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 get a lawyer to write a letter and send it to the owner by a proper dressed dispatcher. Usually it works and scare the crap out of them, and lawyer letter are pretty dam_n cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Unless you own the whole building I dont know how you shut off the electric especially if they are paying their monthly bill? its easy electricity is always in my wifes name and anyway as owner of condo she has every right to get electric metor cut off and water and condo management would never refuse but threat has always been enough although she would do it and also within 24-48 hours have tenants goods removed and locks changed if tenant ever tried to use deposit for last months rent. she also always returns deposit in full if no damage and place left clean but will not put up with any nonsense especially from stupid forangs. It has never come to it but a visit from her brothers staff at police station can easily be arranged for any forang silly enough to try and cheat Whether you guys are honest or not, letitbe, you sound like the biggest jerk on the planet. Like a little kid on the playground; I'll get my big brother after you!!" Except in your case, its your wife Unless you own the whole building I dont know how you shut off the electric especially if they are paying their monthly bill? its easy electricity is always in my wifes name and anyway as owner of condo she has every right to get electric metor cut off and water and condo management would never refuse but threat has always been enough although she would do it and also within 24-48 hours have tenants goods removed and locks changed if tenant ever tried to use deposit for last months rent. she also always returns deposit in full if no damage and place left clean but will not put up with any nonsense especially from stupid forangs. It has never come to it but a visit from her brothers staff at police station can easily be arranged for any forang silly enough to try and cheat Whether you guys are honest or not, letitbe, you sound like the biggest jerk on the planet. Like a little kid on the playground; I'll get my big brother after you!!" Except in your case, its your wife it works and she has no problem with crap tenants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Im sure she wears the pants in the relation too. yes as far as doing business here but our business In USA and UK I wear pants Seems to work fine. Horses for courses while stupid forang or some think they have any chance here same as no Thai has much of a chance in west playing by our rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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