Proving A Point On Costs In Thailand

[brianwalker]

I have a friend who is coming to Thailand for the first time, but he thinks everyone pays the same.

I just want to prove a point to him

Like electricity, water, hospitals, wages and taxes run on a 2 tier system, ie one price for Thai and one price for foreigners. Please can you confirm this and give more examples on this 2 tier structure.

Thanks

Brian

[stoneyboy]

I pay the same for electricity,water and rent as all my Thai neighbours,don't know where you get this 2 tier pricing from with regards to utilities and the like.

[QED]

Electricity and water - no, these are the same. Hospitals - depends where you go, some will have a dual pricing structure, some not. Wages - in favour of farang generally (maybe exclude teachers from that). Taxation - no, same.

The only places where the 2 tier system is policy is tourist attractions such as national parks (10x price), and theme parks/zoos/attractions that may charge 2-3x price (although many of these can be avoided with a Thai DL or WP).

Places with no fixed price, markets etc, will always start higher when dealing with farangs, but that is just down to your negotiation skills.

[fletchsmile]

National Park entrance fees.

Restaurants / bars with menu prices in Thai script that differ from those in English

Bargaining down the market

Tuk Tuks

Motorcycle taxi drivers

are some obvious ones that spring to mind, although the longer you're here and the better your Thai increase your chances of getting the Thai price

[beechguy]

Some places like parks, do charge more for foriegners, but I agree with stoneyboy, my rent, uilities etc. are the same as for Thais.

[David48]

Brian, for a newbie with one post ... that is quite a statement.

With regards to paying, you know that if you feel you are being overcharged then simply decline to pay or use your great negotiating skills to strike a lower price.

Agreed that the National Parks Entrance fees do offer a two tier system BUT you can maybe change your mind set and be happier by thinking differently.

We pay what is normally not an exorbitant price to view the natural beauty of the area and the Thais get a discount to the price we pay.

If your friend is coming to Thailand for the first time, shouldn’t your role as a friend to show the joys of visiting the Kingdom rather then trying to deride the place.

Given the opportunity I am sure your friend will revel in paying a dollar for a cold beer, or 2 dollars in a Bar rather then twice that at home and that a taxi could take him the journey from the Airport to your Hotel in Bangkok for under $10.

Sure, there duplicity everywhere in Thailand and it's not restricted to paying different prices then the Thais.

Relax

Enjoy

Have some.

David48

.

[lovelomsak]

Just to give an example of dual pricing I just incountered on the weekend. My Gf needed a wardrode closet. So we went to a furniture store near my house. There was 2 outside the store so we pointed at one and ask how much the clerk said 3000 baht it seemed a bit high for the quality so ask about the other one. 3200 for it. So we decided to go and look elsewhere. When we were leaving the Gf pointed to signs above the items we were looking at. They were both on sale for 1790 baht.

[garrya]

Just to give an example of dual pricing I just incountered on the weekend. My Gf needed a wardrode closet. So we went to a furniture store near my house. There was 2 outside the store sow much the clerk said 3000 baht it seemed a bit high for the quality so ask about the other one. 3200 for it. So we decided to go and look elsewhere. When we were leaving tho we pointed at one and ask he Gf pointed to signs above the items we were looking at. They were both on sale for 1790 baht.

The same happened with me when trying to buy some chairs. My wife bought those kind of chairs a few months ago, and now we needed some new ones and they priced it double suddenly. Then I turned down the nice offer with a grin on my face. To be honest this happens quite often. I have already learnt who tries to rip me off at the local market.

[adweb00]

Just to give an example of dual pricing I just incountered on the weekend. My Gf needed a wardrode closet. So we went to a furniture store near my house. There was 2 outside the store so we pointed at one and ask how much the clerk said 3000 baht it seemed a bit high for the quality so ask about the other one. 3200 for it. So we decided to go and look elsewhere. When we were leaving the Gf pointed to signs above the items we were looking at. They were both on sale for 1790 baht.

And you left without bashing him down to 1400?? Not his fault you didn't see the sign and maybe he made a mistake pitching the usual price. Somehow i don't think any thai would pitch a larger price when it has a price written on it in plain view??

[wana]

Just to give an example of dual pricing I just incountered on the weekend. My Gf needed a wardrode closet. So we went to a furniture store near my house. There was 2 outside the store so we pointed at one and ask how much the clerk said 3000 baht it seemed a bit high for the quality so ask about the other one. 3200 for it. So we decided to go and look elsewhere. When we were leaving the Gf pointed to signs above the items we were looking at. They were both on sale for 1790 baht.

And you left without bashing him down to 1400?? Not his fault you didn't see the sign and maybe he made a mistake pitching the usual price. Somehow i don't think any thai would pitch a larger price when it has a price written on it in plain view??

they would to a farang if the numbers were written in thai numerals and they thought he couldnt read it

it gets really petty sometimes ,the fruiit sellers try to get 15 thb for 10thb fruits from farangs

the photo printing shop charges 25 to thais and 35 to farangs to use their colour photocopier for 1 page

[PattayaParent]

I pay the same for electricity,water and rent as all my Thai neighbours,don't know where you get this 2 tier pricing from with regards to utilities and the like.

Same for me with utilities but there is 2 tier pricing in wages, in my favour!

Taxes and NI same same.

[samran]

I think to OP needs to get his own facts about Thailand right before he starts offering guidance to others.

Lord help people who turn to him for advice.

[wamberal]

Sounds like the law of supply and demand is working okay in the free marketplace. If you don't like the price you are being offered, either offer an alternative lower price, or look for another supplier.

Work a bit harder, maybe consider learning basic numbers so that you can see what the written price is, and use that as a starting point.

[daveb1]

Well put!

[trainman34014]

Just to give an example of dual pricing I just incountered on the weekend. My Gf needed a wardrode closet. So we went to a furniture store near my house. There was 2 outside the store so we pointed at one and ask how much the clerk said 3000 baht it seemed a bit high for the quality so ask about the other one. 3200 for it. So we decided to go and look elsewhere. When we were leaving the Gf pointed to signs above the items we were looking at. They were both on sale for 1790 baht.

Let GF shop for such things on her own as they won't try to rip off their own kind. You can turn up just seconds after the deal has been struck. I've done it several times and you should see the look on their faces !

[BigJohnnyBKK]

> I have a friend who is coming to Thailand for the first time, but he thinks everyone pays the same. I just want to prove a point to him.

> Like electricity, water, hospitals, wages and taxes run on a 2 tier system, ie one price for Thai and one price for foreigners. Please can you confirm this and give more examples on this 2 tier structure.

I don't think **any** of your examples hold. Very rare exceptions are tourist sites, but very often showing that you live and work here - especially showing a copy of last years' tax receipt will get you the local price.

Farang tend to patronize businesses that overcharge, but they overcharge everyone. Dealing with self-employed vendors, they will try to overcharge you if they think you don't know the usual pricing structures, but they would do the same to a Thai if they thought they could get away with it.

Once you've been here for a while, start learning the language, and usually don't go to tourist-oriented places anymore, the whole issue just disappears - 99% of the time, and the 1% of the time it comes up you can just choose not to do business with that vendor. Of course don't accept any services without agreeing on a set price first, you'll rarely come out ahead with that strategy!

The key is knowing what the real price should be, and knowing how to negotiate your bargain effectively - rule #1 never show that you really want what they're selling #2 always keep it light and joking, keep a smile on your face #3 don't actually intend to purchase during your learning curve for that good/service, actually walk away the first few times and you'll find the right price to start bargaining with the next vendor.

I very often get much lower prices on bargained goods than my Thai companions, because I am willing to knock them down to very low and don't care about losing face. Of course you have to be sensitive to doing this when you're with Thais and you don't want to cause them to lose face, better off paying a bit more than you would if you were alone.

Many normal business practices here seem like scams to westerners, but often has nothing to do with the fact the customer is farang. Generally speaking, they take the attitude that they are doing you a favor allowing you to be a customer, no attempts at reasonable customer service. If a waiter screws up your order you usually have to pay for it. No refunds on defective goods. If you don't like it, then you're free to take your business elsewhere, they apparently don't care about their reputation - since none of their competitors are "customer friendly" no one has to be.

The only exceptions are expensive places that cater to or are otherwise used to these "crazy demanding" international customers, probably have western-trained management somewhere upstream.

[bendix]

Congratulations, OP. You have won the prize for the most stupid, most ill-informed first post ever.

Let's hope you keep this stunning form up.

A different price for utilities and different tax rates, indeed? Jeez, where do people get this nonsense?

Where prices for things aren't fixed (street markets etc) prices are agreed based on knowledge, ability to barter and communicate and basic laws of supply and demand. Foreigners aren't penalised per se; instead they are seen as easy prey just like any other out-of-towner who looks like easy prey. It's the same all around the world. If you're not happy with the price you're quoted, you just walk away.

As for National Parks, I personally have no problem with this. There are numerous examples of tourist attractions all around the world who charge their own citizens less than foreigners and, frankly, there are very defensible reasons for this. If you can prove you live here - Thai drivers licence for example - you get charged the local rate at these places.

[SlyAnimal]

As others have said:

Wages - Farang get higher than Thai (Where I teach, we get around 3-4x as much as the Thai teachers)

Taxes - We pay Tax on the same brackets as what Thais do, however Thais earn less and so usually don't need to pay tax (or pay in a lower bracket). Because they get soo used to not paying tax, a lot don't even file tax returns once they are in the taxable threshold, whereas farang always have to as I believe it's linked to our work permits.

Electricity & Water- Same for farang and Thai (But a lot of farang use more electricity, because they often aren't as careful with electricity use and like to have aircon on more often)

Restaurants / Bars - Same price for farang and Thai. Except farang often prefer to eat at more expensive restaurants and often order more expensive dishes (e.g. farang food instead of Thai food)

Market - Same for both, except that farang usually don't know the standard price, and usually don't have as much experience bargaining, so people will take advantage of this. Same thing goes in the west, if someone is bad at negotiating then you'll usually take advantage. Even on a fair price, vendors expect you to ask for a discount at least once, maybe even twice, and so they factor this into the price initially quoted.

National Parks / Zoos - Different price for foreigners, which is justified. Thai taxes (Which don't pay, but anywho) pay for the maintenance of national parks etc, foreigners don't pay tax, thus need to pay a bit extra. If you do pay tax (e.g. you have a work permit), you get the Thai price (Or if you just talk to them in Thai you usually get it).

With bargaining, as farang we do usually luck out compared to a Thai person bargaining, we simply can't pay the "I don't have much money" or "We're both Thai! We should help each other!" card, although speaking Thai to them has a definite advantage, as it shows them that you're not just a standard tourist.

A good example being, when I went to James Bond Island in Phuket with my gf and my cousin who was visiting from NZ. We then went to the various vendors selling random junk, and tried to see what prices we could get for fun. My cousin would "bargain them down" from around 500 THB to say 200 THB for a bracelet, and then tell me how she was soo awesome at bargaining and got such a good deal. I'd speak to a vendor in Thai, selling the same bracelet, who I'd then bargain down from around 200 THB to maybe 120 or 150 THB. My Gf would however, talk to them, and be offered the same bracelets for around 80 THB each!!

[ollyKS]

At Bangkok Hospital I was standing behind a British guy of arab ethnicity and he was looking at a price list in Arabic, and questioned the prices as they were higher than what he had been quoted, the person behind the desk said "no, no, those are prices for arabs, not you". So there are at least two prices in Bangkok hospital, but probably three. Thai, Farang, Arab. I was reallly shocked. I have bumped into the Thai price vs. Foreigner price loads of times before, but I had never seen differences in pricing between foreigners.

-OKS

[F1fanatic]

The OP is a troll...

Of course there is double-pricing (based on will the idiot pay this price) - but only a troll would suggest that taxation is different. Unless, thinking about it, he means most farang pay tax (they have no choice) whereas most locals find a way round it?

Unlikely though, as its a first post.

[bendix]

At Bangkok Hospital I was standing behind a British guy of arab ethnicity and he was looking at a price list in Arabic, and questioned the prices as they were higher than what he had been quoted, the person behind the desk said "no, no, those are prices for arabs, not you". So there are at least two prices in Bangkok hospital, but probably three. Thai, Farang, Arab. I was reallly shocked. I have bumped into the Thai price vs. Foreigner price loads of times before, but I had never seen differences in pricing between foreigners.

-OKS

To be honest, I see no problem with this. These hospitals are in Thailand. For every foreigner taking advantage of Thailand's reputation as a medical tourism destination, it means there are less places available for locals.

Exactly the same principle applies with universities in the UK, Australia, New Zealand which have made fortunes charging Asian and other overseas students significantly higher fees than local students for many years.

[StreetCowboy]

Just to give an example of dual pricing I just incountered on the weekend. My Gf needed a wardrode closet. So we went to a furniture store near my house. There was 2 outside the store so we pointed at one and ask how much the clerk said 3000 baht it seemed a bit high for the quality so ask about the other one. 3200 for it. So we decided to go and look elsewhere. When we were leaving the Gf pointed to signs above the items we were looking at. They were both on sale for 1790 baht.

And you left without bashing him down to 1400?? Not his fault you didn't see the sign and maybe he made a mistake pitching the usual price. Somehow i don't think any thai would pitch a larger price when it has a price written on it in plain view??

I get the very slightest bit irritated when I go into shops like Central, and they won't stick by the price they post on the price tag. Usually there's some spurious discount to be applied - so how is one supposed to comparative-shop? If I was a miserly skinflint, I think that might really get to me, sooner or later.

SC

[BookMan]

Just to give an example of dual pricing I just incountered on the weekend. My Gf needed a wardrode closet. So we went to a furniture store near my house. There was 2 outside the store so we pointed at one and ask how much the clerk said 3000 baht it seemed a bit high for the quality so ask about the other one. 3200 for it. So we decided to go and look elsewhere. When we were leaving the Gf pointed to signs above the items we were looking at. They were both on sale for 1790 baht.

And you left without bashing him down to 1400?? Not his fault you didn't see the sign and maybe he made a mistake pitching the usual price. Somehow i don't think any thai would pitch a larger price when it has a price written on it in plain view??

No, of course they wouldn't...Like the shorts i asked about in MBK about a year back.

How much i asked?

'600 Baht'.

Closer inspection, price tag of 340 Baht. The price says 340 baht I tell them

'That is the stock number'. they tell me.

Strange how a thousand pairs of different style and coloured shorts all have the same stock number...

[kerryk]

Rent and utilities the same as my Thai neighbors. I get paid twice as much as a Thai doing the same job. They don't let Thais into a lot of the clubs I go to so I don't know. Private hospital the same, Navy hospital, I paid 100% more than a Thai person.

[mca]

I think to OP needs to get his own facts about Thailand right before he starts offering guidance to others.

Lord help people who turn to him for advice.

I'm hoping that the OP, when referring to utility bills, means the possibility of an unscrupulous landlord upping the prices for foreigners. If he's not and means utility bills for private housing then <deleted>?

[henryalleman]

The price for electric and other utilities are the same. And in some national museums like the Royal villa in Doi Thung, I even get a reduction of 50% because I'm over 60 and my fiancée had to pay full price, she was very surprised by it.

If there is dual pricing in public places like museums or national parks for non-Thai nationals, you just show your WP, but in most cases your Thai drivers license or yellow Tabian Baan will do also.

In shopping malls there is no dual pricing, and you even get 5% discount with your Expatriate card, in The Mall you get even 5% discount in their supermarket.

At local markets its all depend on your bargaining skills, but this is the same for Thai people. Even in most hotels you can make some kind of deal.

But of-course if you stay in farangland like Sin City, Pukhet or other tourist hot-spots that's an completely different matter.

IMHO dual pricing is much exaggerated. Its all depend where you live.

PS: I live in Nonthaburi.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'm hoping that the OP, when referring to utility bills, means the possibility of an unscrupulous landlord upping the prices for foreigners. If he's not and means utility bills for private housing then <deleted>?

Many foreigners are surprised that apartment managements add large markups to utility rates, and often won't allow you to choose your own telecoms/cable/isp service. This last is why I prefer to rent standalone houses myself.

The situtation is of course much worse when the utility bills are just made up out of thin air rather than actually being metered - it's likely that all the tenants are being ripped off more than usual, and in that context I wouldn't be surprised if the foreigners even more so.

When I rented out the top floor of a massage shop to live, I paid for a meter to be installed, and each month the landlady and I sat down and calculated my share of her bill. I was always happy to let her "keep the change".

Some people don't care, as they don't mind spending an extra thousand or two per month, but for those on a budget it is something to be aware of when looking for accommodation.

But not too relevant to "double pricing".

[PattayaParent]

Many foreigners are surprised that apartment managements add large markups to utility rates, and often won't allow you to choose your own telecoms/cable/isp service. This last is why I prefer to rent standalone houses myself.

In the cases of condos that don't have a developer management but are owned and run by the co-owners themselves the increase in electricity and water charges is to cover the costs of running the common facilities such as lifts and corridor lighting, pool and sewerage charges.

[welbymd]

You might see a higher utility rate if you rent a condo or appartment. The building owner receives the bill and charges you for a higher rate. As far as say, living in a house, the rates are the same as the house next to you. I have a swimming pool and water the garden everyday. Water bill last month was 425 baht. That is a "high" bill.