Foreigner Assaulted At Bangkok BTS Station By Security Guard - Police Launch Investigation

[Roj]

To BKK Brit. Luk Kreung is the rather clumsy Thai description of a child of mixed raced and equivalent to the now little used `half caste` in English. When used in context in spoken and written THAI it is not xenophobic (and I CAN speak and write Thai) BUT when inserted into a sentence in English, when the childs bloodline, as in this case, has absolutely no relevance, is derogatory. That is Angry Parents issue and he`s correct no matter what angle you try and look at it from. I`ve been here 23 years now and whenever I`ve heard other expats using `luk kreung` it`s always been intended as just that, derogatory.

[longstebe]

It would have been interesting if it was laughing gas.

Lets all have a kick off then suck on some balloons.

On a serious note, I've been coming here for 12 years and never had any bother. Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe I just can't be arsed with it all.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[thecornishman]

While I agree that this person was a bloody idiot for wanting to go against company rules, I do not agee with the violence against him. If the balloons were so important he should have taken a taxi. He only lived a couple of stops away.

Most thais believe that if a westerner oversteps the mark it is their right to inflict physical/abusive punishment. This shows an underlying resentment for caucasian forigners which comes to a head in such cases.

Was he stupid? yes.

If a stupid thai acted the same way, same result? no.

Was he "a brit" no

Do thais actually like westerners? no, but they suffer them for their own selfish reasons.

[thecornishman]

P.s. common sense tells me that filming began after he was hit and that's why the person unknown began to film.

[timewilltell]

I can only hope this farang spends some time in a Thai jail to help him learn some respect for authority in a foreign country. Based on this video he is a clear embarrassment to westerners who respect and appreciate being here. This guy was a disturbance well before he fought with the authorities and clearly why somebody started video taping this moron who clearly shouldn't be allowed to use public transportation until he can show he can do it without incident as the many many other millions of people do here.

I could almost agree with you Kn Nisa except that like many others on this thread you are maybe jumping to a conclusion with only part of the story. If you are basing your conclusion just on the video evidence from the clip then you may have missed some vital clues. Many people are quick to size up a situation and react without knowing the lead up.

The guy is with his child and a friend and a woman carrying balloons. He has a cut on his head at the very beginning and is acting very aggressively. He looks drunk or drugged and crazy. These Thai security guards are acting in a moderately restrained manner. It all looks like the foreigner is at fault.

Of course if we knew he had been clubbed over the head by another guard moments before when a video would show him acting quite passively and being whacked over the head for no apparent reason then we might have a different view of his subsequent behavior.

We don't know really the whole story so jumping to conclusions against the security or the foreigner is rather foolhardy. There are plenty of aggressive ignorant foreigners and plenty of aggressive ignorant Thais too. Foreigners deserve to be treated at least as respectfully as Thais in this country where we are guests especially where officials are concerned. This is what a Thai should expect in a foreign country too. We are all from the same beginnings and inhabitants of this world and should be treated equally.

I hope justice is meted out fairly and am heartened to learn BTS are to compensate the victim since they surely know more of the circumstances than any of us on here. I hope they also recognize the restraint showed by the two guards in the video clip for showing restraint in dealing with the fallout from the earlier altercation.

[Nisa]

I can only hope this farang spends some time in a Thai jail to help him learn some respect for authority in a foreign country. Based on this video he is a clear embarrassment to westerners who respect and appreciate being here. This guy was a disturbance well before he fought with the authorities and clearly why somebody started video taping this moron who clearly shouldn't be allowed to use public transportation until he can show he can do it without incident as the many many other millions of people do here.

I could almost agree with you Kn Nisa except that like many others on this thread you are maybe jumping to a conclusion with only part of the story. If you are basing your conclusion just on the video evidence from the clip then you may have missed some vital clues. Many people are quick to size up a situation and react without knowing the lead up.

The guy is with his child and a friend and a woman carrying balloons. He has a cut on his head at the very beginning and is acting very aggressively. He looks drunk or drugged and crazy. These Thai security guards are acting in a moderately restrained manner. It all looks like the foreigner is at fault.

There is nothing that is at all within the real of reality that could justify his behavior during the period on this video tape were he clearly has the opportunity to leave the station or give up the balloons but he does neither and instead attacks security personnel who are clearly acting in a very calm and restrained fashion.

Even a completely unprovoked assault fro a security officer prior to this incident cannot justify his criminal behavior. There is clearly no self defense on this tape as he was never being threatened but but still tried and appears to have assaulted officers including the one he kicked in the mid section after his daughter calmly walked over and handed the security her balloons. I love Thailand but situations like this make me wish there was more of an American standard and this guy was not only charged with crimes but investigated by child services to see if he is even fit to be raising a child.

If security hit him while he wasn't acting violently and destroying property and disregarding security to stop then the security officer should also be charged and arrested.

[F4UCorsair]

I'm with you PEP. It wouldn't be tolerated in Australia, without doubt, and why should it be? Forget whether there signs before or after the turnstiles, he was told by security personnel (and one doesn't need fluent English to get that message across) not to proceed, but he chose to do so. He's possibly lucky his ashes aren't being sent home in a mini casket, like a young Brazilian in Sydney last week, who allegedly stole a packet of biscuits and is now dead. Stealing a packet of biscuits is no reason to capsicum and taser a guy, but resisting arrest is. Let's wait for the coroner's report on this one.

Edited March 23, 2012 by sbk

[thecornishman]

Given his nationality, he should be aware more than most of terrorist threats, His behaviour nevertheless did not warrant a beating,period.

Edited March 23, 2012 by thecornishman

[alanferdi]

Sounds like it was excessive force on a farang who didn't want to follow the rules. They should have just called the police if they were that hard up about not letting the guy on the train with the balloons. Give him a ticket not bash his skull .. <deleted>

Thats true...the violence in Thailand is stepping up against Farangs. Its best we move to neighbouring countries where we arent treated like cattle.

[p_brownstone]

I feel sorry for the Security Guards in this mess - and genuinely wonder about the affect it will have on security in general on the BTS and elsewhere in future.

The Guards are in a no-win situation:

1) If they had let this boorish idiot board with the balloons they were not doing their job - by allowing a breach of the regulations.

2) If they try to stop him and he does not comply what are their options but to use physical force? (An earlier Poster said "call the Police" but the "teacher" was clearly determined he would not stop even to rationally discuss the problem, so by the time Police arrived he would have been on the train and long gone.).

I have seen reports that the BTS initially suspended the Guards for allowing the man to get past the Barriers and a later report that they have been disciplined (or will be - not sure) for assaulting the man.

If I was a BTS Security Guard - earning just enough to feed my family, with unemployment rampant in Thailand - I would be in a quandary what to do the next time an incident such as this occurs; and let's not forget, next time it could be a serious, genuine security / terrorist threat.

Patrick

[StoneSoup]

A lot of people seem to see this event as a case of a foreigner being excessively "punished" by a BTS security guard over the rather trivial offense of trying to bring balloons onto a BTS train.

I see it a bit differently. I see it as an individual stepping onto the turf of an organization (the BTS) that maintains really high standards, and saying "I'm not going to follow your rules, I'm going to do what I please." Or - to put it another way: "I am rejecting the rules that have been established for this area, and I am insisting that we instead play by "jungle rules" - whoever is biggest and meanest imposes his will on everyone else."

So - the big foreigner effectively announced that now that he was at that BTS Station, he was putting "jungle rules" into effect there - with him as the Alpha male.

In response, the BTS guards proceeded to elevate their performance to "jungle rules" - and suddenly the foreigner found himself having some problems. Well - if you call for jungle rules, don't start whining if you take a thumping.

Both the BTS and MRT systems here in Bangkok maintain extremely high standards of everything - cleanliness, maintenance, courtesy, reliability, etc. Even in the most congested parts of town, when things at street level are total chaos - life inside the gates of the station is calm and well-ordered. They have rules, and almost everyone who enters the station tends to play along with the rules. If someone wants to flaunt the rules - well - they risk getting some lumps. I don't see a problem there.

Final comment: The foreigner tried confronting a 60 kg BTS Security Guard. Let's see how he would do against one of the MRT transit policemen (not the MRT gate security people - I'm talking about the armed MRT police). I have always been fairly impressed with the "no bullshit" look of those guys.

Edited March 23, 2012 by StoneSoup

[vijer]

Either this was a set up or some altercation happened before and then the person taking the video decided to begin recording the event. Either way it would appear that the foreigner is initially at fault, if you are told you can't bring the balloons on the BTS then turn around and get in a cab or ditch the balloons. Nope lets cause an incident in a foreign country.

In defense of the security guard; the foreigner is over 100 kilos and maybe 190 cm where as the security guard is about 45 kilos and 140 cm. I suspect the security guard felt a bit threatened.

[TAWP]

There is no proof, and not in the video either, that the man started destroying any BTS property.

I am concerned when some posters disregard anything that is posted from an, Thai, eyewitness that isn't related to be people involved - but happily repeats allegations posted by a reporter writing up a piece of a statement made by one of the parties, BTS, in this confrontation.

One is clearly less likely to be overly biased. And it isn't the one you put your trust in.

Where are the eye witness statements? I haven't seen anything yet. Did I miss them in these 20 plus pages or are they on some news site that isn't being posted here yet?

The woman recording the video. Try reading the posts before discarding them.

[Ferangled]

It's fairly clear the poor guy did his level best to ignore the guard, who clearly wasn't acting in a manner conducive to resolving the situation amicably. Since when did a few balloons warrant being assaulted with a weapon? He was holding them for his daughter who was forced to witness the entire incident. Some common sense from the guards would be welcome.

Wow. What video did you watch? The guy's friend had to hold him back from attacking the guard. He tried to kick the guards (see the jumping around 2/3 through the video), and did push them on several occasions.

Also, when you wrote "Since when did a few balloons warrant being assaulted with a weapon?" -- I see many a balloon of varying types and aggression shown by the foreigner. The other posts state that he assaulted a female officer, kicked a trash can in a crowded area and from what I can see, acted like a total t@#t

If the other posts state he assaulted a female officer & kicked a trash can in a crowded area - is that some sort of vile crime I am not familiar with "kicking a trash can in a public area"?

Then of course that must be 100% true and entirely justifies him being clubbed in the head...er... prior to allegedly assaulting a female officer and a trash can. I just hope the trash can receives the appropriate counselling to recover from this ordeal.

You're totally right, he probably cut himself in the head whilst shaving and I'm sure the balloons were actually part of a terrorist plot to destroy the BTS and the guards were totally justified in attacking him hence the .... err.... lack of apology from the BTS management... no, that doesn't cut it... err, hang on, I'll try harder.

The guards were clearly trying to save Bangkok by stopping a deliberate, premeditated, act of balloon transportation by a vicious young terrorist in training (had just graduated from kindergarten... er.. I mean terrorist training camp) and her evil, vicious, drunkard of a father.... is that more in line with your thinking?

It doesn't matter how you like to twist the events, the facts are fairly straight forward. The man was assaulted by a guard. If the man was being a "total t@#t" as you put it, that doesn't justify assaulting him. Any assault of trash cans/ guards came after this, and as such are irrelevant to the initial assault.

The video is misleading because it doesn't show the initial assault and that seems to have thrown this thread into one of wild speculation, innuendo and xenophobic ranting. I understand the posters objecting to the whole scenario on the grounds that this guy was "breaking the rules". No balloons means no balloons, but does it when he has already been permitted to travel with them? And does it justify attacking one of your customers to the point of causing Grievous Bodily Harm?

If the BTS employees themselves don't know the rules how are they expected to A. enforce them and B. expect any of their customers to comply with them.

[Ferangled]

" I see many a balloon of varying types and aggression shown by the foreigner"

I love this post - I must have missed the many and varied aggressive balloons on show! Thanks for cheering me up this morning, that did make me chuckle; God help us if Disney does open up here, imagine the reaction to a bunch of children walking down the street with life size cartoon character balloons - there would be absolute carnage!

[WyattEarp]

There, for all the apologists who can never think Thais can do anything wrong:

BTS apologises for guard's clash with Irish passenger

"We have already removed the guard who were involved from the BTS system," BTS executive Anat Arbhabhirama said yesterday.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/542797-bangkok-bts-apologises-for-guards-clash-with-irish-passenger/

[khaowong1]

Typical, I have seen the same type of thugery from Transit inspectors in Australia. This type of violence should under no circumstances be condoned. The man is clearly non hostile and is trying to understand why he has become a victim of such unforgiviable agression.

So much for a happy day out on the train with girl and kids. -sack them immediately.

'

For a moment I thought you were about say 'Typical, I have seen the same type of thuggery from'....farangs.

Why are you being an apologist for the farang? The story says he was told balloons weren't allowed so why couldn't he have just tried reasoning, and if that failed, get a <deleted> taxi? What gives anyone the right to flout the rules especially when told about them?

Too many farangs travel and think regulations aren't made for them because they're superior. This is a classic case.

WE ARE superior, who in the world told you we aren't, jeez, where you from? Arkansas?

[Kilgore Trout]

If this was an Asian guy ignoring security rules at a western train station or airport the Asian guy would be looking at a prison sentence.

Right, because the POLICE would have been called. If a rent a cop assaulted him then the rent a cop would be charged a crime unless he was defending himself, clearly not the case in this circumstance.

Get it together.

[beerchang]

"Great non-biased post?" Yes, all Thai people are expert kickboxers. Just because you like it, doesn't mean it's unbiased.

Yes, I am biased in the sense that I believe he was hit before the video started. It is pretty difficult sometimes to work out the truth of what happened from what part of a story. For example, in North By Northwest, Cary Grant is seen holding a murder weapon next to a dead guy. This must mean Cary Grant killed the guy, obviously... Wait, more to the story than just that? Impossible!

It is, in fact, biased to look at one piece of information at the expense of all others, especially if it is confirming your own bias (whether a subconcious one or not). Could we wait to see if there is any video from before the incident before we assume the guy is a dirty violent thuggish bully? How about we get all the evidence before we hang the guy, or, more realistically, ruin his career?

Sorry about this mods! delete as appropriate...".ALL THAI PEOPLE ARE EXPERT KICKBOXERS!!!!!!!!!!!!" **obscenity removed**

Edited March 23, 2012 by sbk

[animatic]

I can only hope this farang spends some time in a Thai jail to help him learn some respect for authority in a foreign country. Based on this video he is a clear embarrassment to westerners who respect and appreciate being here. This guy was a disturbance well before he fought with the authorities and clearly why somebody started video taping this moron who clearly shouldn't be allowed to use public transportation until he can show he can do it without incident as the many many other millions of people do here.

I could almost agree with you Kn Nisa except that like many others on this thread you are maybe jumping to a conclusion with only part of the story. If you are basing your conclusion just on the video evidence from the clip then you may have missed some vital clues. Many people are quick to size up a situation and react without knowing the lead up.

The guy is with his child and a friend and a woman carrying balloons. He has a cut on his head at the very beginning and is acting very aggressively. He looks drunk or drugged and crazy. These Thai security guards are acting in a moderately restrained manner. It all looks like the foreigner is at fault.

There is nothing that is at all within the real of reality that could justify his behavior during the period on this video tape were he clearly has the opportunity to leave the station or give up the balloons but he does neither and instead attacks security personnel who are clearly acting in a very calm and restrained fashion.

Even a completely unprovoked assault fro a security officer prior to this incident cannot justify his criminal behavior. There is clearly no self defense on this tape as he was never being threatened but but still tried and appears to have assaulted officers including the one he kicked in the mid section after his daughter calmly walked over and handed the security her balloons. I love Thailand but situations like this make me wish there was more of an American standard and this guy was not only charged with crimes but investigated by child services to see if he is even fit to be raising a child.

If security hit him while he wasn't acting violently and destroying property and disregarding security to stop then the security officer should also be charged and arrested.

Calm and restrained fashion must including clubbing him in the head because he is loud.

Bull hockey.

[Ferangled]

Typical, I have seen the same type of thugery from Transit inspectors in Australia. This type of violence should under no circumstances be condoned. The man is clearly non hostile and is trying to understand why he has become a victim of such unforgiviable agression.

So much for a happy day out on the train with girl and kids. -sack them immediately.

'

For a moment I thought you were about say 'Typical, I have seen the same type of thuggery from'....farangs.

Why are you being an apologist for the farang? The story says he was told balloons weren't allowed so why couldn't he have just tried reasoning, and if that failed, get a <deleted> taxi? What gives anyone the right to flout the rules especially when told about them?

Too many farangs travel and think regulations aren't made for them because they're superior. This is a classic case.

WE ARE superior, who in the world told you we aren't, jeez, where you from? Arkansas?

Why does it have to be made out to be another Thai vs Ferang issue?

It isn't, it's a simple case of assault/ GBH regardless of the nationality of the individuals involved.

The guard could be a martian it wouldn't change the fact he over stepped the mark by assaulting a paying customer of the BTS. Get a grip.

[newsweird]

The farang isn't very aggressive in the video. As a comparatively bigger guy than the guard, I am sure the guard would have been on the floor easily if the farang was not slightly restraining himself. In any event, he has been hit in the head several times, so I don't think he is in the right state of mind to control himself fully.

I saw a Thai Tv news show yesterday (at 8am!) of some Thai (girl) students smacking the s%$# out of each other. Now that would have been more likely if the guy was in the mood, or condition, to kick off.

Finally, for the cheap seats, for the slow class... the video is AFTER the hitting! He may or may not have been acting like that before he was hit- there is no evidence yet, and therefore we can't say he is a thug or "deserved it". Are we now all on the same page? Jeez...

Actually the video clearly shows him acting in a violent and criminal fashion and there is nothing that could have happened prior that would excuse his behavior. Even if he felt he was assaulted by another security officer or even one of the ones he is being shown attacking in this video. Clearly the video shows him NOT acting in any kind of self-defensive manner and he is being the aggressor. You don't have a legal right to attack anyone simply because they hit you. However you do have a right to defend yourself which this guy clearly was not doing and had all the opportunity in the world to walk out of the BTS and call police if he was assaulted and NOT continue to break BTS rules and not follow the directions of security officers at the station and force his way up the stairs to the trains.

I wonder if one was to belt you in the face with a stick, would it aggravate you? You seem to blatantly keep ignoring the FACTS. The guy was bashed in the face before even passing the gate and before the video recording started. Stop trying to spoon feed and justify the actions of this guard. And yes you do have the legal right to attack the guard when he keeps touching you and trying to steal from you when pitching an unwritten and non-posted policy different than other stations.

We had this discussion before, all personnel regardless of rank and office (government, police dept, public transit etc...), need to be on the same page and toot the same horn. As soon as that happens and ALL rules are fair, even and Just, then perhaps respect might be due. But until then they have not EARNED it. I see nothing in the video other than 2 Thais in uniform (typical) trying to remove belongings of a foreigner thru felonious means that was unwarranted and certainly unjustified.

Edited March 23, 2012 by newsweird

[Ferangled]

they both look like thugs!

Teachers?

What an entirely relevant post - of course, if they look like thugs they must be thugs and couldn't possibly be teachers.... faultless logic on display.

One of my best teachers at school was an ex royal marine, 6'8", 125 kilos - he was a very scary looking bloke so how could he possibly be a teacher? The fact is despite being built like a brick s**t house, he was highly engaging, intelligent and struck a common ground with his students.

I guess to be a good teacher you have to be short, weedy and wear glasses? Which qualifies you to be a teacher how?

[chuang]

The heading.." FOREIGNER ASSAULTED AT BANGKOK BTS STATION BY SECURITY GUARD ''...IS A MISNOMER...

[swillowbee]

... lots of moving parts to this story:

• Reports elsewhere are that there IS no rule against balloons on the BTS; that the BTS officials say it is determned by each individual security guard ... which makes it ARBITRARY, resting upon the judgement of an individual; this opens the question of whose rules do you follow if there is no written policy on balloons by the BTS? ... the BTS security guard at the other end of the BTS station who allows balloons, or the BTS security guard at THIS end of the BTS station who does not;
  
• Continuing with the theme of ARBITRARY; the fact is that Thailand is not a culture that respects rules is no surprise; "When in Rome, do as the Romans" ... many here are guilty of changing our standards of behaviors with which we were raised, to those of the local cultural values (all this bleating about following Thailand's rules rings prettty hollow to most any foreigner);
  
• BTS security guards are NOT police, and are NOT authorized with police authority (use of deadly force) that is vested in legally sworn police officers; a private security guard's authority to use deadly force is the same as that of a private citizen;
  
• There is the question of proportional use of force; the eyewitness reports the victim was struck repeatedly, in the head, with a metal baton; this brings into question the judgement of the BTS security guard, his training and his competency;
  
• Any number of techniques are possible for preventing a larger person from passing a perimeter (especially a perimeter with a barrier, and a transgressor whose arms are filled with packages and is attended with family out for a day of shopping); repeatedly bludgeoning the transgressors head with a metal baton is not a first, nor even a second choice; are the BTS security guards competently trained?
  
• There is the question of provocation; most accept that losing face to a Thai justifies brutality, even worse; is that LEGALLY acceptable behavior in a modern civil society? ... did the beating victim 'provoke' the BTS security guard by causing him to lose face?
  

The answer to much of this is in the BTS's own security video. I wrote earlier, that I pass through the Phrom Pong BTS station (where the assault occurred) every day. There are three BTS security cameras closely trained on the location where the assault occurred.

We can only speculate whether Thai authorities will avail themselves, and the public, of this evidence, or choose to conceal it.

[Ferangled]

The heading.." FOREIGNER ASSAULTED AT BANGKOK BTS STATION BY SECURITY GUARD ''...IS A MISNOMER...

How would you explain the gaping wound on his head? A shaving accident perhaps? I guess BTS have apologized & fired the guard because it didn't actually happen... pick your toys up out yer pram and keep sucking on your dummy!

[canuckamuck]

I don't know about the rest of you but I certainly feel assaulted after wading through the prejudices expressed in this thread - on both sides.

let's wait for the security video it is bound to be leaked eventually.

Edited March 23, 2012 by canuckamuck

[beerchang]

This thread is madness! Opinion of many appears to be....The guard upon seeing balloons went ballistic and tried to kill the placid, polite Irish fellah!

I can't remember how many time a BTS guard has tried to kill me for no reason!

Jeezus H!

[Soutpeel]

We can only speculate whether Thai authorities will avail themselves, and the public, of this evidence, or choose to conceal it.

The fact that the BTS have already come out and apologised and said they have "removed" the security guard, speaks volumes and suggests any survelliance tapes at the BTS station have already been looked at and the truth has become apparant.

[Soutpeel]

This thread is madness! Opinion of many appears to be....The guard upon seeing balloons went ballistic and tried to kill the placid, polite Irish fellah!

Maybe the guard had flashbacks to his childhood when mummy wouldnt buy him a balloon and this sparked his psychotic behaviour