Foreigner Assaulted At Bangkok BTS Station By Security Guard - Police Launch Investigation

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

"If this death threat is true, it's only what he deserves"

- 50% of this forum.

I don't know where you're getting the idea above from...

No one here is wishing any harm to the guy involved, nor suggesting or condoning any illegal behavior.

But it does serve as yet another reminder that he might have been better off to have just walked away, and/or lodged complaints with the authorities if he was wronged...instead of doing what he did.

None of this B.S. had to happen, and the most ridiculous aspect of it is, it was all over some balloons... Were the balloons really worth this much grief for all involved?

And no... this case isn't about race... It's about individual or individuals acting badly. There's enough of that to go around for everyone's nationality at some time or another.

Edited March 23, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Nisa]

Nisa, I did give that a like, for what it's worth. I don't think I have been derogatory to any race in my posts, and in terms of race relations, I was responding to another poster. It's just that we have different viewpoints within this case of individuals.

And I certainly wasn't trying to imply you were derogatory to any race (not that you are accusing me of that). I honestly don't even know who I am responding to 1/2 the time unless they have a icon that really sticks out. I tend to just respond to specific comments and not an overall poster's views.

However, I did like the question you posed because it seems it was based on something we are all getting dragged into in terms of making this about race when it really is about a single incident that just went bad and even if it was some kind of hate crime towards foreign or Thai people it still would just be a simple bad incident and not represented of any race her IMO unless one wants to see it that way and IMO opinion that would be racist thinking.

In the video it is interesting to note what we didn't see. We didn't see Thai bystanders jumping in and taking the side of Thai Security and beating down this guy when they guy was lashing out at the Thai security. We also didn't see the foreigner's foreign friend join in attacking Thai security but instead saw the friend trying to restrain him. There was even a women (thai or foreign?) who we originally thought was the wife who seemed to be trying to mediate the situation. Then we have fact this foreigner is married to a Thai and has a Thai child.

So, if somebody wants to see racism here then they should look in their own backyard and ask themselves why they want to see racism.

IMO the situation may have been more about cultural differences and perceptions and not racism. I think both sides had expectations and beliefs about the other side that were wrong.

[Nisa]

Edit- maybe I'm not being objective enough, in thinking the letter was written by a Thai or is legit- sorry, it's late. I'll try to do better..

We will never know and it really is not the least bit relevant as one unknown online poster's opinion doesn't represent the views of any society. However it is curious.

But the more I look at that letter it seem apparent it is somebody trying to stir things up. There is too much knowledgeable grammar and vocabulary in the post to then have what looks like purposeful edits to not look like a fluent English speaker.

writer knows the differnance between then vs. than - its vs it's - 's to show possession and a number of things including phrases and words to not understand the basic writing mistakes in the letter to make it sound like typical broken English in some places.

The letter is quite similar in sentiment to what I've seen written by Thais on some of the Thai forums.

I could be wrong and apologize if this is the case but are you suggesting it represents the views of Thai society? If that is the case then we should also believe the views of Thai & Thailand expressed in soooo many posts here are representative of how foreigners feel about Thais. Clearly the number of foreign tourist arriving here and Thailand ranking very high among countries when it comes to foreign tourist would seem to disprove both these assumptions and lead us more to believe there are a lot of keyboard warriors on both sides of the fence who have few other avenues to express their hostile views.

Edit: if you are simply referring to if the writer was Thai or not then I think we already beat that horse to death :-)

Edited March 23, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

I have no idea if this was the case but can you imagine an already angry Irish guy having Thai security or staff appearing to laugh at him? We all know this is a Thai way of calming a situation but even knowing this when you are already mad it doesn't stop the feeling that you are being laughed at and setting off a real anger fuse.

Simply very hard for me to get my head around how somebody who is a teacher and appears in all likelihood to be a decent guy could have allows a situation like this to escalate and simply not left and walked, taken a train or bus or threw the dam_n near deflated balloons out and tell his daughter he would get brand new ones that still actually float. Why argue to the extent he did initially leading to kicking a trash can? And why become so obsessed about getting to the train after you have already been clocked in the face and bloodied by security and you have other security and staff continuing to tell you that you cannot get on the train? Clearly the guy snapped .... not to say security didn't too but I haven't seen that video yet.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Nisa

[sydneyjed]

The woman in the video is not his wife (unless that information has changed).

The video again shows AFTER HE WAS HIT IN THE HEAD- I don't know his state of mind in the video, and neither do you.

Yes, this does not show foreigners in a good light, although it is possible that even if it were found he was blameless, many people would not change their opinion, as I suspect you wouldn't.

I don't honestly know what would rectify this situation. Would you like him thrown in jail? Would that really improve Thai opinions of foreigners? I'm honestly asking.

You seem not to have a lot of faith in Thai people, if you think all of them think the same way, and do not have differing viewpoints. Could it be they would make their own minds up on this one case? Maybe they see that this was only one foreigner, who does not represent everyone, even if he is to blame?

You also seem very hostile to someone who disagrees with you and wasn't trying to goad you (at least before you started off at me). Issues?

The woman in the 2nd video Drummond(see page 27)is his wife next to him....As he states in this interview "Watch the CCTV footage and make up your own mind"...Unfortunately with only part of the actual footage and incident shot by a passing passenger..people on here made up their mind very quickly who was the guilty party..Something that would not hold in a court of law I can assure you!Despite all the condemnation shown on here..that is all it is at the moment 'pure ignorant ill informed speculation' from people who don't know any better..Pretty sad reflection really!!

[F4UCorsair]

Newsweird said, And yes you do have the legal right to attack the guard when he keeps touching you and trying to steal from you when pitching an unwritten and non-posted policy different than other stations.

No you don't have that right. He is a security guard doing his job. If he says 'jump', you don't ask 'how high'. You jump and ask 'is this high enough'.

Whether a sign prohibiting balloons on the BTS is visible or not is irrelevant. The security guard says it's a violation so don't do it. Take it up with the authorities later, but don't take on the guard. That's madness as this guy found out. That the BTS management has apologized is no more than a bit of defusing going on.

Edited March 23, 2012 by F4UCorsair

[sydneyjed]

Newsweird said, And yes you do have the legal right to attack the guard when he keeps touching you and trying to steal from you when pitching an unwritten and non-posted policy different than other stations.

No you don't have that right. He is a security guard doing his job. If he says 'jump', you don't ask 'how high'. You jump and ask 'is this high enough'.

Whether a sign prohibiting balloons on the BTS is visible or not is irrelevant. The security guard says it's a violation so don't do it. Take it up with the authorities later, but don't take on the guard. That's madness as this guy found out. That the BTS management has apologized is no more than a bit of defusing going on.

Visible sign..what sign?Up till yesterday there wasn't and hasn't been any such sign at Phrom Phong BTS..fullstop!!

[whybother]

Newsweird said, And yes you do have the legal right to attack the guard when he keeps touching you and trying to steal from you when pitching an unwritten and non-posted policy different than other stations.

No you don't have that right. He is a security guard doing his job. If he says 'jump', you don't ask 'how high'. You jump and ask 'is this high enough'.

Whether a sign prohibiting balloons on the BTS is visible or not is irrelevant. The security guard says it's a violation so don't do it. Take it up with the authorities later, but don't take on the guard. That's madness as this guy found out. That the BTS management has apologized is no more than a bit of defusing going on.

Visible sign..what sign?Up till yesterday there wasn't and hasn't been any such sign at Phrom Phong BTS..fullstop!!

That's why it is irrelevant.

There are no signs saying that you can't piss on the platform.

If the guard told you that you shouldn't do it, would you listen to him or just push past to do it anyway.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Edited March 23, 2012 by whybother

[Ulysses G.]

AFAIK, none of us have seen what occurred prior to the start of the video in this thread... But a lot of us can see enough in the video that was posted to conclude the farang teacher's behavior was wrong and unacceptable -- pretty much no matter what happened before.

If he was with little or no provocation attacked by a guard, file a police complaint. If they wouldn't let him take the balloons on the Skytrain...take a cab... If he felt wronged by BTS, file a complaint with BTS management. But please don't start a trash can kicking brawl and all the rest that occurred on the video. Please show some composure and self-control.

Very sensible post Tall Guy.

[Reasonableman]

Point taken, thanks. Prejudice, conscious or unconscious, plus ignorance, lie at the root of discrimination, be it race, sexual preference, nationality, etc, etc. The immediate condemnation of the guy at the BTS (prejudged as farang/ foreigner/ irish/ teacher, etc) is symptomatic of that malaise.

A trite response. Its not indignation, its an observation on the language used, and the race-based us-versus-them mindset. This guy is a person, and classifying him as "foreign" brings with it a whole load of irrelevant baggage. Being foreign does not make him inherently good or bad.

Another post referring to the "foreigner", rather than the "individual". If this isn't racism and xenophobia, what would you call it?

Would you prefer the Thai description of white-skinned foreigners, farang? Pretty hard to play the indignant racist card in Thailand, don't you think?

I completely agree. My point was that Thais are quite racist. So as our western values prevent us from applying such stereotypes, Thais openly do it all the time, either consciously or unconsciously.

[canuckamuck]

It is so unfortunate the crappy handheld video that has become so famous now, does not come with a clear explanation that it only contains the events that occured after this man was smashed in the face with a metal detector. and before he was beaten again by a gang of guards upstairs by the train.

If I said "hey watch this video of how mad this guy gets after someone smashed him in the face" to a normal person. They would watch it and say. Well he looks mad, but mostly he looks like he is just trying to leave and they are stopping him. Or. they might say "I would be more mad than that."

But instead what is happening is people still assume the video shows the whole event or the evidence of the crime. It doesn't.

It is like watching a halftime show, and then commenting on the quality of the football game. It is a near perfect framejob and I fear that this guy might very well be in danger of losing his job and being seriously hurt. His crime: showing anger over poorly communicated and inconsistantly interpreted regulations, and protecting property that had special value to his 7 year old daughter on her graduation day.

Lynch mob mentality here. very sad indeed.

[KKvampire]

what are the rules of engagement for the baton, metal detector holding BTS SG's? When can they use physical force ? Restraining or violence? If the BTS management statements are to believed, "violence" ? Never!!!, end of story for all you speculators on here.

[Ulysses G.]

It is so unfortunate the crappy handheld video that has become so famous now, does not come with a clear explanation that it only contains the events that occured after this man was smashed in the face with a metal detector. and before he was beaten again by a gang of guards upstairs by the train.

If he was "smashed in the face with a metal detector" and later "beaten again by a gang of guards upstairs by the train" it is most unlikely that he would still be carrying the balloons and he is carrying them in the video.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[canuckamuck]

It is so unfortunate the crappy handheld video that has become so famous now, does not come with a clear explanation that it only contains the events that occured after this man was smashed in the face with a metal detector. and before he was beaten again by a gang of guards upstairs by the train.

If he was "smashed in the face with a metal detector" and later "beaten again by a gang of guards upstairs by the train" it is most unlikely that he would still be carrying the balloons and he is carrying them in the video.

Lots of witness accounts have been posted UG by why not hear it from the man himself. Read this http://www.andrew-dr...ory.php?sid=529

Edited March 24, 2012 by canuckamuck

[Ulysses G.]

It is interesting to hear what he has to say, but I still wonder why he still had the balloons after supposedly being attacked twice by a "gang of guards". I am pretty sure that I would have given them up when the guy whacked me in the head the first time.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[ajarnmark]

Apparently it was foreigner's fault. If you are not allowed to carry balloons then why to carry them? Just imagine if this was done by a middle easterner (Brazilian?) in UK, he must have been shot and after 5 seconds big news says he was a terrorist.

If you have to carry balloons so why not take taxi? with four people (I guess there were 2 men, 1 woman and 1 child) taxi is much more cheaper than train.

[keemapoot]

What is most disturbing in this entire sad episode, has I think, been entirely overlooked. As a parent, your duty is to protect and keep safe your child as a FIRST PRIORITY. At the first sign of trouble, being whacked with a metal detector, or whatever, the reasonable thing to do, for the protection and welfare of your child, is to retreat immediately to safety, discarding any and all other plans, including charging headlong into a situation where you have been warned not to go.

This is the single most irresponsible part of the story. Your child could be hurt in any melee. Retreat. Period.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What is most disturbing in this entire sad episode, has I think, been entirely overlooked. As a parent, your duty is to protect and keep safe your child as a FIRST PRIORITY. At the first sign of trouble, being whacked with a metal detector, or whatever, the reasonable thing to do, for the protection and welfare of your child, is to retreat immediately to safety, discarding any and all other plans, including charging headlong into a situation where you have been warned not to go.

This is the single most irresponsible part of the story. Your child could be hurt in any melee. Retreat. Period.

That's a good and valid point... He not only failed in what's expected of a teacher, but pretty much failed likewise in his responsibilities as a parent.

Take the parallel example of a driver getting stopped by Thai police for speeding...and let's assume the driver wasn't really even speeding. What do you think's going to happen if the driver refuses to pay the fine and goes barging past or drives away from the cop?

The BTS guard was there enforcing the rules of the BTS transit system, and it really doesn't matter whether there was any balloon sign posted or not, or whether other BTS station staff elsewhere had failed to enforce the same rule.

The BTS guard at PP Station may have been wrong in the way he responded to the teacher's aggression. But the teacher was clearly wrong in trying to ignore or barge past or otherwise challenging and confronting the guard. And the rest of the video showing the teacher's response and behavior clearly speaks for itself.

[geriatrickid]

It is interesting to hear what he has to say, but I still wonder why he still had the balloons after supposedly being attacked twice by a "gang of guards". I am pretty sure that I would have given them up when the guy whacked me in the head the first time.

Thick cranium?

[EyesWideOpen]

What is most disturbing in this entire sad episode, has I think, been entirely overlooked. As a parent, your duty is to protect and keep safe your child as a FIRST PRIORITY. At the first sign of trouble, being whacked with a metal detector, or whatever, the reasonable thing to do, for the protection and welfare of your child, is to retreat immediately to safety, discarding any and all other plans, including charging headlong into a situation where you have been warned not to go.

This is the single most irresponsible part of the story. Your child could be hurt in any melee. Retreat. Period.

????? Clearly you do not subscribe to the mama bear and her cub theory of defensive violence...... Mess with either one, and you get the claws.......I still think the guy showed restraint in not attacking the guard. If I was out with my daughter, and a Thai guy attacked me, my first thought would be that I MUST win, for the sake of my daughter. Grabbing up my daughter and running away like a rat would not be my first course of action....

[keemapoot]

What is most disturbing in this entire sad episode, has I think, been entirely overlooked. As a parent, your duty is to protect and keep safe your child as a FIRST PRIORITY. At the first sign of trouble, being whacked with a metal detector, or whatever, the reasonable thing to do, for the protection and welfare of your child, is to retreat immediately to safety, discarding any and all other plans, including charging headlong into a situation where you have been warned not to go.

This is the single most irresponsible part of the story. Your child could be hurt in any melee. Retreat. Period.

????? Clearly you do not subscribe to the mama bear and her cub theory of defensive violence...... Mess with either one, and you get the claws.......I still think the guy showed restraint in not attacking the guard. If I was out with my daughter, and a Thai guy attacked me, my first thought would be that I MUST win, for the sake of my daughter. Grabbing up my daughter and running away like a rat would not be my first course of action....

It's a matter of character isn't it? Those who choose to stubbornly defend their manly sense of righteousness & ego vs. those who would choose to put the safety of their child first.

I guess you've shown your character....

[F4UCorsair]

Newsweird said, And yes you do have the legal right to attack the guard when he keeps touching you and trying to steal from you when pitching an unwritten and non-posted policy different than other stations.

No you don't have that right. He is a security guard doing his job. If he says 'jump', you don't ask 'how high'. You jump and ask 'is this high enough'.

Whether a sign prohibiting balloons on the BTS is visible or not is irrelevant. The security guard says it's a violation so don't do it. Take it up with the authorities later, but don't take on the guard. That's madness as this guy found out. That the BTS management has apologized is no more than a bit of defusing going on.

Visible sign..what sign?Up till yesterday there wasn't and hasn't been any such sign at Phrom Phong BTS..fullstop!!

Man, you need some tips on comprehension sydneyjed. I NEVER said there was a 'visible sign'. What I said was, 'Whether a sign prohibiting balloons on the BTS is visible or not is irrelevant'. And it's still irrelevant. He was told by the guard that NO BALLOONS were permitted and chose to ignore that instruction.

Edited March 24, 2012 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

AFAIK, none of us have seen what occurred prior to the start of the video in this thread... But a lot of us can see enough in the video that was posted to conclude the farang teacher's behavior was wrong and unacceptable -- pretty much no matter what happened before.

If he was with little or no provocation attacked by a guard, file a police complaint. If they wouldn't let him take the balloons on the Skytrain...take a cab... If he felt wronged by BTS, file a complaint with BTS management. But please don't start a trash can kicking brawl and all the rest that occurred on the video. Please show some composure and self-control.

Very sensible post Tall Guy.

Very sensible observation Ulysses G, of a very sensible post by Tall Guy. It seems simple to me. If the guard says don't take the balloons on, don't take the balloons on and deal with it later. File a complaint with the BTS management, and he'll get the message that the guard acted appropriately in telling him that he couldn't take balloons on the BTS. Then the brawl started. Would the guard have started it? Nobody told him he couldn't do something; he was doing the telling, so it's a fair bet that the Irish guy started it, and the guard merely reacted to the physical that followed.

Edited March 24, 2012 by F4UCorsair

[Daffy D]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this case the actions of this Irish gentleman, a respected teacher caused at least 3 people to loose their jobs and three families to go hungry.

[EyesWideOpen]

What is most disturbing in this entire sad episode, has I think, been entirely overlooked. As a parent, your duty is to protect and keep safe your child as a FIRST PRIORITY. At the first sign of trouble, being whacked with a metal detector, or whatever, the reasonable thing to do, for the protection and welfare of your child, is to retreat immediately to safety, discarding any and all other plans, including charging headlong into a situation where you have been warned not to go.

This is the single most irresponsible part of the story. Your child could be hurt in any melee. Retreat. Period.

????? Clearly you do not subscribe to the mama bear and her cub theory of defensive violence...... Mess with either one, and you get the claws.......I still think the guy showed restraint in not attacking the guard. If I was out with my daughter, and a Thai guy attacked me, my first thought would be that I MUST win, for the sake of my daughter. Grabbing up my daughter and running away like a rat would not be my first course of action....

It's a matter of character isn't it? Those who choose to stubbornly defend their manly sense of righteousness & ego vs. those who would choose to put the safety of their child first.

I guess you've shown your character....

Yes I have. thanks.

[F4UCorsair]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this case the actions of this Irish gentleman, a respected teacher caused at least 3 people to loose their jobs and three families to go hungry.

Let's hope they haven't really lost their jobs and it's just posturing by BTS management. I think we should start a petition to have them reinstated. Maybe if enough people post here the word will just get back as the story of the incident has to taxi drivers etc.

[Pseudolus]

What is most disturbing in this entire sad episode, has I think, been entirely overlooked. As a parent, your duty is to protect and keep safe your child as a FIRST PRIORITY. At the first sign of trouble, being whacked with a metal detector, or whatever, the reasonable thing to do, for the protection and welfare of your child, is to retreat immediately to safety, discarding any and all other plans, including charging headlong into a situation where you have been warned not to go.

This is the single most irresponsible part of the story. Your child could be hurt in any melee. Retreat. Period.

????? Clearly you do not subscribe to the mama bear and her cub theory of defensive violence...... Mess with either one, and you get the claws.......I still think the guy showed restraint in not attacking the guard. If I was out with my daughter, and a Thai guy attacked me, my first thought would be that I MUST win, for the sake of my daughter. Grabbing up my daughter and running away like a rat would not be my first course of action....

It's a matter of character isn't it? Those who choose to stubbornly defend their manly sense of righteousness & ego vs. those who would choose to put the safety of their child first.

I guess you've shown your character....

You need to pick your fights if you are going down that road. To push your way into the territory of the alleged attackers, pulling your daughter with you surely must have set off danger signals in any sober man that this is not a good place to be. Like getting a bite from a lion cub and therefore pushing your way into their den on a point of principal.

[Pseudolus]

Newsweird said, And yes you do have the legal right to attack the guard when he keeps touching you and trying to steal from you when pitching an unwritten and non-posted policy different than other stations.

No you don't have that right. He is a security guard doing his job. If he says 'jump', you don't ask 'how high'. You jump and ask 'is this high enough'.

Whether a sign prohibiting balloons on the BTS is visible or not is irrelevant. The security guard says it's a violation so don't do it. Take it up with the authorities later, but don't take on the guard. That's madness as this guy found out. That the BTS management has apologized is no more than a bit of defusing going on.

Visible sign..what sign?Up till yesterday there wasn't and hasn't been any such sign at Phrom Phong BTS..fullstop!!

That's why it is irrelevant.

There are no signs saying that you can't piss on the platform.

If the guard told you that you shouldn't do it, would you listen to him or just push past to do it anyway.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Was the actual event around St Patricks day by chance? The only people I see pissing in public have usually had a few beverages and are not thinking as lucidly as might be expected of them.

[Nisa]

Newsweird said, And yes you do have the legal right to attack the guard when he keeps touching you and trying to steal from you when pitching an unwritten and non-posted policy different than other stations.

No you don't have that right. He is a security guard doing his job. If he says 'jump', you don't ask 'how high'. You jump and ask 'is this high enough'.

Whether a sign prohibiting balloons on the BTS is visible or not is irrelevant. The security guard says it's a violation so don't do it. Take it up with the authorities later, but don't take on the guard. That's madness as this guy found out. That the BTS management has apologized is no more than a bit of defusing going on.

Visible sign..what sign?Up till yesterday there wasn't and hasn't been any such sign at Phrom Phong BTS..fullstop!!

Man, you need some tips on comprehension sydneyjed. I NEVER said there was a 'visible sign'. What I said was, 'Whether a sign prohibiting balloons on the BTS is visible or not is irrelevant'. And it's still irrelevant. He was told by the guard that NO BALLOONS were permitted and chose to ignore that instruction.

As you mention it is 100% irrelevant a sign was posted as he was told. But would a sign have helped? I have seen the signs before at other stations and I presume this guy being a teacher, having a Thai wife and child would indicate he has been around for a while and he claims he had no knowledge of the rules prior to being told.

I also have to wonder IF there was no sign posted previously at this station about balloons then maybe there was no sign at all about any prohibited items (does this mean everything is fair game at this station?) since every sign I have seen showing prohibited items at the BTS includes the no balloons symbol ... who knows maybe they decided to make different signs for different stations just so when somebody gets on at one station with an allowed item they will be in violation at the next station they get off. Maybe the BTS planned this incident from its earliest inception

Edited March 24, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this case the actions of this Irish gentleman, a respected teacher caused at least 3 people to loose their jobs and three families to go hungry.

Let's hope they haven't really lost their jobs and it's just posturing by BTS management. I think we should start a petition to have them reinstated. Maybe if enough people post here the word will just get back as the story of the incident has to taxi drivers etc.

I think it a bit soon to be supporting security since we have not seen video of what happened before or after the Youtube video BUT clearly in this video if the station staff shown in the video remained this calm and cool while under assault by the passenger before and after, they should be commended for their restraint.