Acupuncture

[wilcopops]

I accept Migraines clear themselves after a perion of time. Mine last about an hour in which my vision goes. Then comes the headache. That's what I have the acupuncture for. I haven't really found anything that helps medication wise for the headache. Acupuncture did/does. And since I started acupuncture my bouts have become more spread out. At 400 Baht for an hour session once a month, in something I find does work, then I'll carry on. Thanks for your concern.

Sadly there is absolutely no scientific evidence (trials etc.) to back up your claim. In short no matter how much you insist it to be the case these claims have never been shown to be repeatable in the cold light of reason. however you might also bear in mind that migraines are not like clockwork, they can't be relied upon to have a consistent frequency od occurrence. The truth may well be that any modification of frequency may be purely to do with there problem yourself, or due to change of lifestyle, age, environment or other physiological factors.

The fact remains is that your perception of the effectiveness of acupuncture remains associative rather than causal and as the treatment is based on no real or measurable factors it remains one of the LEAST likeliest causes for any change in your condition.

[Sceptict11]

If sinbin gains relief from migraine by using acupuncture then I am pleased.

Whilst generally opposing "alternative" medicine for making gross and unsubstantiated claims some do in fact gain relief from simple , unproven, "cures" such as homeopathy and acupuncture.

[OLDAUSSIE]

I accept Migraines clear themselves after a perion of time. Mine last about an hour in which my vision goes. Then comes the headache. That's what I have the acupuncture for. I haven't really found anything that helps medication wise for the headache. Acupuncture did/does. And since I started acupuncture my bouts have become more spread out. At 400 Baht for an hour session once a month, in something I find does work, then I'll carry on. Thanks for your concern.

Sadly there is absolutely no scientific evidence (trials etc.) to back up your claim. In short no matter how much you insist it to be the case these claims have never been shown to be repeatable in the cold light of reason. however you might also bear in mind that migraines are not like clockwork, they can't be relied upon to have a consistent frequency od occurrence. The truth may well be that any modification of frequency may be purely to do with there problem yourself, or due to change of lifestyle, age, environment or other physiological factors.

The fact remains is that your perception of the effectiveness of acupuncture remains associative rather than causal and as the treatment is based on no real or measurable factors it remains one of the LEAST likeliest causes for any change in your condition.

@ wilcopops, would you care to give us a link to your claims. There seems to be a lot of Chinese that don't agree with you.

[wilcopops]

I accept Migraines clear themselves after a perion of time. Mine last about an hour in which my vision goes. Then comes the headache. That's what I have the acupuncture for. I haven't really found anything that helps medication wise for the headache. Acupuncture did/does. And since I started acupuncture my bouts have become more spread out. At 400 Baht for an hour session once a month, in something I find does work, then I'll carry on. Thanks for your concern.

Sadly there is absolutely no scientific evidence (trials etc.) to back up your claim. In short no matter how much you insist it to be the case these claims have never been shown to be repeatable in the cold light of reason. however you might also bear in mind that migraines are not like clockwork, they can't be relied upon to have a consistent frequency od occurrence. The truth may well be that any modification of frequency may be purely to do with there problem yourself, or due to change of lifestyle, age, environment or other physiological factors.

The fact remains is that your perception of the effectiveness of acupuncture remains associative rather than causal and as the treatment is based on no real or measurable factors it remains one of the LEAST likeliest causes for any change in your condition.

@ wilcopops, would you care to give us a link to your claims. There seems to be a lot of Chinese that don't agree with you.

I think you might try a bit of googling.

As for the Chinese, you will find that the big money in acupuncture is NOT in China - they aren't so gullible - it is the West that has swallowed the myth.

[wilcopops]

You should go to the Mission Hospital. This hospital is specialize in Acupuncture and have a good treatment facility.

Sorry but that is an oxymoron, isn't it?

[sinbin]

I go along with that acupuncture works, for certain ailments.

Which conditions can acupuncture treat?

Doctors from the Complementary Medicine Field of Cochrane Collaboration, a body of scientists and healthcare professionals that publishes evidence of scientific trials, have reviewed a range of scientific evidence and concluded that acupuncture can work for certain conditions including nausea, dental pain, migraines and osteoarthritis of the knee.

http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD001218/acupuncture-for-migraine-prophylaxis

Migraine patients suffer from recurrent attacks of mostly one-sided, severe headache. Acupuncture is a therapy in which thin needles are inserted into the skin at defined points; it originates from China. Acupuncture is used in many countries for migraine prophylaxis – that is, to reduce the frequency and intensity of migraine attacks.

We reviewed 22 trials which investigated whether acupuncture is effective in the prophylaxis of migraine. Six trials investigating whether adding acupuncture to basic care (which usually involves only treating acute headaches) found that those patients who received acupuncture had fewer headaches. Fourteen trials compared true acupuncture with inadequate or fake acupuncture interventions in which needles were either inserted at incorrect points or did not penetrate the skin. In these trials both groups had fewer headaches than before treatment, but there was no difference between the effects of the two treatments. In the four trials in which acupuncture was compared to a proven prophylactic drug treatment, patients receiving acupuncture tended to report more improvement and fewer side effects. Collectively, the studies suggest that migraine patients benefit from acupuncture, although the correct placement of needles seems to be less relevant than is usually thought by acupuncturists.

- See more at: http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD001218/acupuncture-for-migraine-prophylaxis#sthash.UggCo0BG.dpuf

Edited December 9, 2013 by sinbin

[Sheryl]

I don't know what you have read but acupuncture has indeed been proven to be effective for a number of conditions in internationally accepted controlled studies.

http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/5.html

You will note that headache is under the first category i.e. proven benefit

(Re the list of conditions...this does not mean acupuncture cures them, only that it is of help, usually in terms of symptomatic relief).

Attaching full article summarizing research findings for those interested.accupuncture.pdf

[wilcopops]

I don't know what you have read but acupuncture has indeed been proven to be effective for a number of conditions in internationally accepted controlled studies.

http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/5.html

You will note that headache is under the first category i.e. proven benefit

(Re the list of conditions...this does not mean acupuncture cures them, only that it is of help, usually in terms of symptomatic relief).

Attaching full article summarizing research findings for those interested.accupuncture.pdf

No it hasn't. The studies show either no more or less than placebo. Apart from these minor (disputed) claims for pain acupuncture has never been shown to have ANY effect at all, despite the claims of practitioners.

It has also been conclusively shown that it makes no difference where the pins are stuck in and iin fact it doesn't even matter if the pins aren't stuck in at all.

You do realise that there are SEVERAL conflicting "maps" of where you should stick the pins - there is also risk of infection and other injury resulting from this practice (treatment is an inappropriate word)?

Furthermore as the "theory" that acupuncture is based on is completely fallacious - so any results would have to be coincidental rather than causal.

Edited December 9, 2013 by wilcopops

[Sheryl]

I don't know what you have read but acupuncture has indeed been proven to be effective for a number of conditions in internationally accepted controlled studies.

http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/5.html

You will note that headache is under the first category i.e. proven benefit

(Re the list of conditions...this does not mean acupuncture cures them, only that it is of help, usually in terms of symptomatic relief).

Attaching full article summarizing research findings for those interested.accupuncture.pdf

No it hasn't. The studies show either no more or less than placebo. Apart from these minor (disputed) claims for pain acupuncture has never been shown to have ANY effect at all, despite the claims of practitioners.

It has also been conclusively shown that it makes no difference where the pins are stuck in and iin fact it doesn't even matter if the pins aren't stuck in at all.

You do realise that there are SEVERAL conflicting "maps" of where you should stick the pins - there is also risk of infection and other injury resulting from this practice (treatment is an inappropriate word)?

Furthermore as the "theory" that acupuncture is based on is completely fallacious - so any results would have to be coincidental rather than causal.

Simply not the case. review the research.

Ahonen E et al. Acupuncture and physiotherapy in the treatment of myogenic headache patients: pain relief and EMG activity. Advances in Pain Research and Therapy, 1983, 5:571–576.

. Dowson DI et al. The effects of acupuncture versus placebo in the treatment of headache. Pain, 1985, 21:35–42.

Loh L et al. Acupuncture versus medical treatment for migraine and muscle tension headaches. Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, 1984, 47:333–337.

Tavola T et al. Traditional Chinese acupuncture in the treatment of tension-type headache: a controlled study. Pain, 1992, 48:325–329.

Vincent CA. A controlled trial of the treatment of migraine by acupuncture. Clinical Journal of Pain, 1989, 5:305–312.

Hansen PE et al. Acupuncture treatment of chronic facial pain: a controlled crossover trial. Headache, 1983, 23:66–69.

Johansson A et al. Acupuncture for the treatment of facial muscular pain. Acta Odontologica Scandinavica, 1991, 49:153–158.

List T. Acupuncture in the treatment of patients with craniomandibular disorders: comparative, longitudinal and methodological studies. Swedish Dental Journal, 1992, 87(Suppl. 1):1–159.

Birch S et al. Controlled trial of Japanese acupuncture for chronic myofascial neck pain: assessment of specific and nonspecific effects of treatment. Clinical Journal of Pain, 1998, 14(3):248–255.

David J et al. Chronic neck pain: a comparison of acupuncture treatment and physiotherapy. British Journal of Rheumatology, 1998, 37(10):1118–1132.

Coan R et al. The acupuncture treatment of neck pain: a randomized controlled study. American Journal of Chinese Medicine, 1982, 9:326–332.

Loy TT. Treatment of cervical spondylosis: electro-acupuncture versus physiotherapy. Medical Journal of Australia, 1983, 2:32–34.

Petrie JP et al. A controlled study of acupuncture in neck pain. British Journal of Rheumatology, 1986, 25:271–275.

[SailingHome]

is there any clinic in Pattaya

Across the street going North from Tony's on 3rd rd in a stripmall. Can't remember his name, but he is very thorough and if you will pay in advance for several treatments, you save a lot. Knowing I would need a lot of sessions, I saved. Quite happy with him and the herbs really helped my liver (he is an herbalist too.)

[wilcopops]

I don't know what you have read but acupuncture has indeed been proven to be effective for a number of conditions in internationally accepted controlled studies.

http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/5.html

You will note that headache is under the first category i.e. proven benefit

(Re the list of conditions...this does not mean acupuncture cures them, only that it is of help, usually in terms of symptomatic relief).

Attaching full article summarizing research findings for those interested.accupuncture.pdf

No it hasn't. The studies show either no more or less than placebo. Apart from these minor (disputed) claims for pain acupuncture has never been shown to have ANY effect at all, despite the claims of practitioners.

It has also been conclusively shown that it makes no difference where the pins are stuck in and iin fact it doesn't even matter if the pins aren't stuck in at all.

You do realise that there are SEVERAL conflicting "maps" of where you should stick the pins - there is also risk of infection and other injury resulting from this practice (treatment is an inappropriate word)?

Furthermore as the "theory" that acupuncture is based on is completely fallacious - so any results would have to be coincidental rather than causal.

Simply not the case. review the research.

Ahonen E et al. Acupuncture and physiotherapy in the treatment of myogenic headache patients: pain relief and EMG activity. Advances in Pain Research and Therapy, 1983, 5:571–576.

. Dowson DI et al. The effects of acupuncture versus placebo in the treatment of headache. Pain, 1985, 21:35–42.

Loh L et al. Acupuncture versus medical treatment for migraine and muscle tension headaches. Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, 1984, 47:333–337.

Tavola T et al. Traditional Chinese acupuncture in the treatment of tension-type headache: a controlled study. Pain, 1992, 48:325–329.

Vincent CA. A controlled trial of the treatment of migraine by acupuncture. Clinical Journal of Pain, 1989, 5:305–312.

Hansen PE et al. Acupuncture treatment of chronic facial pain: a controlled crossover trial. Headache, 1983, 23:66–69.

Johansson A et al. Acupuncture for the treatment of facial muscular pain. Acta Odontologica Scandinavica, 1991, 49:153–158.

List T. Acupuncture in the treatment of patients with craniomandibular disorders: comparative, longitudinal and methodological studies. Swedish Dental Journal, 1992, 87(Suppl. 1):1–159.

Birch S et al. Controlled trial of Japanese acupuncture for chronic myofascial neck pain: assessment of specific and nonspecific effects of treatment. Clinical Journal of Pain, 1998, 14(3):248–255.

David J et al. Chronic neck pain: a comparison of acupuncture treatment and physiotherapy. British Journal of Rheumatology, 1998, 37(10):1118–1132.

Coan R et al. The acupuncture treatment of neck pain: a randomized controlled study. American Journal of Chinese Medicine, 1982, 9:326–332.

Loy TT. Treatment of cervical spondylosis: electro-acupuncture versus physiotherapy. Medical Journal of Australia, 1983, 2:32–34.

Petrie JP et al. A controlled study of acupuncture in neck pain. British Journal of Rheumatology, 1986, 25:271–275.

"Traditional acupuncture theories and practices are not based on the body of basic knowledge related to health, disease, and health care which has been widely accepted by the scientific community. Moreover, schools that teach traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) do not prepare practitioners to make adequate diagnoses or provide appropriate treatment. This Web site provides information about acupuncture that is difficult or impossible to find elsewhere".

Very disappointed in your choice of papers - you don't seem particularly critical - you have also included other "electro" therapies - this of course in not evidence for or against acupuncture.

...and look at some of the journals you've cited! "The American Journal of Chinese Medicine" REALLY!​

...and look at the dates on some of these - PLEASE! - 20 to 30 years ago I might have read those - but i've also read subsequent papers to.

you might also take time to read some of the peer reviews on some of these papers they I think you will find have subsequently been with drawn or found to be a best inconclusive.

the problem with Complimentary medicines is they spend a lot of time and money trying to make themselves look "respectable" - this involves loads of quasi-scientific trials" and quasi-medical papers - in reality it is easier to churn up a load of rubbish on acupuncture by those who already are making alining out of it, than it is to find good scientific reviews of it...why....because with limited funding there are a lot more important things to do than repeat already proven observations of the ineffectiveness of such things as acupuncture, homeopathy and chiropractic.

All these "therapies " are based on ideologies that are completely implausible and have not one iota of basis in science - none of their claims can be reared in clinical trials, any "benefits are usually either placebo or coincidental.

i think it is very unfortunate that there are so many people who make a living out of selling these ideas as if they have any basis in fact whatsoever.

Edited December 10, 2013 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Here's some advice for those considering acupuncture. (published in the 1990s so 10 year s more recent than the above

• Acupuncture is an unproven modality of treatment.
• Its theory and practice are based on primitive and fanciful concepts of health and disease that bear no relationship to present scientific knowledge
• Research during the past 20 years has not demonstrated that acupuncture is effective against any disease.
• Perceived effects of acupuncture are probably due to a combination of expectation, suggestion, counter-irritation, conditioning, and other psychologic mechanisms.
• The use of acupuncture should be restricted to appropriate research settings,
• Insurance companies should not be required by law to cover acupuncture treatment,
• Licensure of lay acupuncturists should be phased out.
• Consumers who wish to try acupuncture should discuss their situation with a knowledgeable physician who has no commercial interest

[sinbin]

Here's some advice for those considering acupuncture. (published in the 1990s so 10 year s more recent than the above

• Research during the past 20 years has not demonstrated that acupuncture is effective against any disease.

Are Migraine headaches a disease?

[wilcopops]

Maybe condition would suit you?

However disease.....

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury

[Sheryl]

This thread has degenerated into flaming. Several posts have been removed accordingly.

As the intent was to provide information of where to obtain acupuncture, not to debate its efficacy, the thread is also closed.