English Language Arrogance

[endure]

I was reading the thread about the BTS guard and the balloons. Someone was making the usual claim that a minimum wage Thai educated in what is generally accepted to be a ropey educational system was deficient in that he was unable to make himself understood in the English language which made me wonder if this arrogance is confined to speakers of English? Do the Germans/Italians/French/Spanish gripe and moan because no-one speaks their language in Thailand? Do Swedes tie themselves in great angry knots when the 7/11 girl can't speak Swedish?

BTW the best answer to the 'he ought to speak English jibe' was someone who pointed that Mr Balloon ought to speak Thai.

[hellodolly]

As long as I can remember the general consensus off opinion on TV is English should be mandatory in Thai schools. For some reason they think that will help the rice farmer grow his rice or the hill tribes make better trinkets to sell to vendors for sale to tourists. Work on production lines and the endless jobs where they may never even see a English speaker.

Yes it surely is a lot of ignorant English only speaking people. Out of all the complainers I doubt if 1% of them would be able to converse in Thai if they had not come here and yet they would have expected the Thai back in their country to speak English.

As far as other languages go I don't think they are that ignorant. It would seem the English speaking people have the corner on ignorance in that department.

[wana]

lets be honest ,english is mainstream ,swedish ,dutch ,germans ,french ,and swiss can nearly all speak it fluently

most countries can watch tv in english by now if they choose to

you cant really compare that to swedish

i dont think it was a problem of comunication on the bts to be honest

more a problem of the guard trying to enforce his authority and the bts rules and a farang trying to enforce his baloons onto a train

because he thought the rules were silly

[theblether]

I, being Glasgwegian, cannot speak English, so I am excused from this charge of arrogance.

[hellodolly]

I, being Glasgwegian, cannot speak English, so I am excused from this charge of arrogance.

to the Zoo

[theblether]

I, being Glasgwegian, cannot speak English, so I am excused from this charge of arrogance.

to the Zoo

Oh hello Dolly, your looking swell Dolly, it's so nice to see you back on cynical form

[Jingthing]

I'm totally arrogant. I don't even bothering asking people if they speak it here anymore. For a while I did ask just to be polite but it's a waste of energy. I just blurt it out and see what happens. Most times people understand some English. Life is good.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I'm totally arrogant. I don't even bothering asking people if they speak it here anymore. For a while I did ask just to be polite but it's a waste of energy. I just blurt it out and see what happens. Most times people understand some English. Life is good.

No interest in learning the local language?

[Jingthing]

I'm totally arrogant. I don't even bothering asking people if they speak it here anymore. For a while I did ask just to be polite but it's a waste of energy. I just blurt it out and see what happens. Most times people understand some English. Life is good.

No interest in learning the local language?

Russkie? Nyet!

[HeavyDrinker]

No interest in learning the local language?

Why bother?

In government offices in the UK they now have Urdu, Hindi, Polish and Serbo Croat services....

I think Thailand should follow suit.

[Gweiloman]

An excerpt from Lai See (a column in South China Morning Post, Hong Kong) from years ago went something like this:

What do you call someone who can speak two languages? Answer: Bilingual

What do you call someone who can speak three languages? Answer: Trilingual

What do you call someone who can speak one language? Answer: Gweilo (Cantonese equivalent to farang)

[submaniac]

English is pretty much the de facto world language. I studied German in school. It was a dumb decision. As I subsequently learned by going to the German speaking countries in Europe, there's about a 90% chance that anyone who speaks German also speaks English. The 10% who don't are high school drop outs, and over there they start learning it very young. (I think it is gradeschool.) I tried to practice German. The German speakers wanted to practice their English...so I'd start speaking in German...and they started switching over to English to respond; My German was very seldom used unless dealing with the less educated German speakers. Hell, even coming back from the airport in Vienna the taxi driver (who was actually a gypsy) and I had a nice long conversation in English about racism against gypsies in Austria.

In Thailand I remember my cousin started learning English since grade school. She was 9 or 10 years old and I remember practicing with her (this was a while ago, she just graduated from Chula last year). Pretty much anyone in Thailand who has even a moderate education has a degree of English speaking ability. English speaking ability in Thailand is a sign of class. It means that the parents of children who can speak English could afford to send their children to good schools so they could speak English. And like the German example, people in Thailand who know how to speak English relish the opportunity to speak it with a native English speaker because the opportunity does not present itself very often..so don't feel bad about using English in Thailand. Like anyone else, Thais also want to practice what they learned in school with a native English speaker.

[Jingthing]

Righto. We speaka da English, we are doing them a favor.

[submaniac]

^^

Comrade JT, you've never been tempted to learn Russian? Some of the Russians, ain't too shabby looking (though the fat out of shape ones kind of gross everyone out.)

[endure]

I suppose that one answer to the question I actually asked out of a total of 13 answers isn't too bad. It doesn't say much for English comprehension though

Edited March 24, 2012 by endure

[Jingthing]

^^

Comrade JT, you've never been tempted to learn Russian? Some of the Russians, ain't too shabby looking (though the fat out of shape ones kind of gross everyone out.)

Oh please. The cute ones all speaka da English!

[Jingthing]

I suppose that one answer to the question I actually asked out of a total of 13 answers isn't too bad. It doesn't say much for English comprehension though

Maybe because it's a "disgraceful" question? You know perfectly well Swedish people don't whine about Thais not speaking Swedish. So why even ask? (Silly concept anyway. A Swede who doesn't speak English. Dream on.)

Snarky note: If Thais spoke Spanish and called it Thai, I'd learn Thai. Now that's a USEFUL language.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Jingthing

[elliss]

english language arrogance, it,s in the blood.

god make britain great,

therefore, english is the choosen language.

kap

[theblether]

I suppose that one answer to the question I actually asked out of a total of 13 answers isn't too bad. It doesn't say much for English comprehension though

Excused as I am from this debate, I must interject to say that Engiish is now the World language. There are 250 million Chinese learning it, on top of 1 billion Indians that speak it, and that is before you start tacking the traditional English speaking nations.

English language skills are highly desirable, if not essential for international business. People have to be able to communicate.

The question at hand is should a BTS guard be able to speak English? I say yes, there are so many tourists of all nationalities pouring through Bangkok every day it would be ridiculous to expect them to speak Thai. It is imperitave for safety reasons that BTS personnel should be decent at English.

I would also point out that many Asians from other countries and non native English speakers rely upon English in Thailand too. Its not arrogance, it's essential for communication.

Should every Thai be fluent in English? No, should people dealing with foreign nationals every day? Yes.

As the Japanese say, the most important language to speak is the customers language.

Its not arrogance, its reality. Maybe we expat types forget the vast majority of foreign visitors to Thailand are short term visitors.

[brit1984]

Do Swedes tie themselves in great angry knots when the 7/11 girl can't speak Swedish?

I doubt it, but it is a good question

[endure]

I suppose that one answer to the question I actually asked out of a total of 13 answers isn't too bad. It doesn't say much for English comprehension though

Excused as I am from this debate, I must interject to say that Engiish is now the World language. There are 250 million Chinese learning it, on top of 1 billion Indians that speak it, and that is before you start tacking the traditional English speaking nations.

English language skills are highly desirable, if not essential for international business. People have to be able to communicate.

The question at hand is should a BTS guard be able to speak English?

It might be the question at hand but it wasn't the question I asked.

[Jingthing]

Do Swedes tie themselves in great angry knots when the 7/11 girl can't speak Swedish?

I doubt it, but it is a good question

It's not a good question because it's obvious they don't, and the questioner knows its obvious they don't. It also implies that English speakers expect her to speak English, which we don't. But we might try it out. Swedes wouldn't. Our odds are decent. Their odds are nonexistent. Edited March 24, 2012 by Jingthing

[smokie36]

I, being Glasgwegian, cannot speak English, so I am excused from this charge of arrogance.

Given the number of Swedish movies I watched during my formative years I cannot claim such an exemption unfortunately.

Madness like this seems to be confined to the Feb-April weather methinks....

[brit1984]

Do Swedes tie themselves in great angry knots when the 7/11 girl can't speak Swedish?

I doubt it, but it is a good question

It's not a good question because it's obvious they don't, and the questioner knows its obvious they don't. It also implies that English speakers expect her to speak English, which we don't. But we might try it out. Swedes wouldn't. Our odds are decent. Their odds are nonexistent.

I was just trying to imagine a Swede in a "great angry knot" and it made me wonder if that happens or not

[smokie36]

Do Swedes tie themselves in great angry knots when the 7/11 girl can't speak Swedish?

I doubt it, but it is a good question

It's not a good question because it's obvious they don't, and the questioner knows its obvious they don't. It also implies that English speakers expect her to speak English, which we don't. But we might try it out. Swedes wouldn't. Our odds are decent. Their odds are nonexistent.

I was just trying to imagine a Swede in a "great angry knot" and it made me wonder if that happens or not

A Swede in a great pile of trouble is easy to imagine...

[Beetlejuice]

English is widely accepted as a second language and as an official language throughout the world.

But the problem is, unlike many other countries in South East Asia, the education system here has failed to inform the majority of Thais of this fact, so over the years I have done my best to learn as much Thai as possible.

I have learned enough Thai to get by and although nowhere near fluent in the language I am able to communicate well and feel quite proud.

I never expect any Thais to have to struggle and speak English with me, I would rather give them the benefit and try to communicate in they’re own language.

Foreigners who live in whatever non-English speaking countries should make some effort and learn the lingo. In the long term this is beneficial to both the natives and foreigners and makes life a lot easier for all concerned.

[sbk]

In my extensive experience dealing with tourists I have found most Japanese barely speak English and can hardly understand it when spoken, the French generally have pretty poor English as do the Italians although of course there are some who do speak English very well before the naysayers jump in, I am speaking in broad terms based on over 20 years of dealing with tourists of various nationalities.. And no, generally I have just heard them apologize for their inability to communicate and their lack of comprehension rather than behave badly because they don't understand and are not understood.

Scandinavians don't tie themselves up in knots if nobody speaks their language because they don't expect anyone to be able to. As for the assumption that a minimum wage clerk should speak English fluently, well, go to Japan and try to speak English with anyone much less a minimum wage clerk.

[nocturn]

I suppose that one answer to the question I actually asked out of a total of 13 answers isn't too bad. It doesn't say much for English comprehension though

my english comprehension is pretty darn good, and i don think i write it poorly either (given the fact that i am not entirely sober)

to answer your question, no , those other nationalities actually get angry that he person they are trying to make understand doesn't speak english

[Jingthing]

That's kind of a pablum-like cliche. My view is its an entirely personal choice based on your own set of circumstances which include a plethora of specific factors. To morally judge people based on this if you haven't walked in their shoes seems a folly.

...

Foreigners who live in whatever non-English speaking countries should make some effort and learn the lingo. In the long term this is beneficial to both the natives and foreigners and makes life a lot easier for all concerned.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Jingthing

[joe552]

JT, I'm a native English speaker (I'm Irish) and I didn't understand your last post. Just saying.