English Language Arrogance

[brit1984]

Foreigners who live in whatever non-English speaking countries should make some effort and learn the lingo. In the long term this is beneficial to both the natives and foreigners and makes life a lot easier for all concerned.

Not necessarily... my wife (a native) is very worried that I (a foreigner) will learn Thai, as she will only be able to gossip about me when I am not present, which would make life more difficult

[GuestHouse]

Keep in mind that Thailand is a trading nation with long standing high portion of it's income coming from tourism - Its not like the benefits of learning English have just turned up this past year or so.

And then we have the statement from the Thai Government that they do not want to make English an official second, or even third language as doing so might give the impression that Thailand was once colonised.

I don't think anyone expects a Thai security guard to speak English, though I know a few that do.

But the level of English in Thailand in general and particularly in the Thai business world is abysmal.

That did not happen by accident and there is a reason why it continues to be the case.

[endure]

Do Swedes tie themselves in great angry knots when the 7/11 girl can't speak Swedish?

I doubt it, but it is a good question

It's not a good question because it's obvious they don't, and the questioner knows its obvious they don't. It also implies that English speakers expect her to speak English, which we don't. But we might try it out. Swedes wouldn't. Our odds are decent. Their odds are nonexistent.

I was just trying to imagine a Swede in a "great angry knot" and it made me wonder if that happens or not

You've obviously never seen a gang of Swedish merchant seamen on a night ashore...

[David48]

Do the Germans/Italians/French/Spanish gripe and moan because no-one speaks their language in Thailand?

To directly answer your question, which you are very keen to get us to do ... how would we know?

If they were to complain to native compatriot, I'm sure it would be in their native 'Germans/Italians/French/Spanish' language and not English, so, unless you are fluent in any of those languages, you would never know.

I've seen many a (older) German lose the plot when the Thai waitress’s service wasn't up to standard that he expects and then found it difficult to express his complaints in English.

Probably the new wave of Russians into Pattaya would be thinking along the same lines.

I know for a fact that an ex-gf of mine who is a tourist guide in Phuket has studied German to further her prospects in that industry.

Edit: Split the post for readibility

Edited March 24, 2012 by David48

[David48]

As for the BTS guard, what sort of English comprehension would I expect ... not much.

If I was told by the guard 'no, can not' and he pointed to the balloons, I would be fairly comfortable with that as an understandable instruction. But I don't want to talk about there, in this thread.

We are very lucky that English is indeed the world acceptable language.

Maybe also because the UK is an island nation, same as Australia and New Zealand, we've had little need, until modern travel, to learn other languages.

Where the likes the Dutch, regularly speak 3 or 4 languages.

My Finnish friend spoke 5 languages ... because she had to.

Could Thailand improve it's customer service interface with more English being spoken by those who had a job with a strong tourism flavour ... sure.

But there certainly would be a difference between the level of English language required to give clear and understandable instructions to customers by a BTS guard then that required by the same BTS guard to debate the intricacies with the man why he could not bring the balloons onto the train.

[theblether]

I suppose that one answer to the question I actually asked out of a total of 13 answers isn't too bad. It doesn't say much for English comprehension though

Excused as I am from this debate, I must interject to say that Engiish is now the World language. There are 250 million Chinese learning it, on top of 1 billion Indians that speak it, and that is before you start tacking the traditional English speaking nations.

English language skills are highly desirable, if not essential for international business. People have to be able to communicate.

The question at hand is should a BTS guard be able to speak English?

It might be the question at hand but it wasn't the question I asked.

To be honest with you, i'm at a function and the after dinner speaker was boring the life out of me so I just made up an answer to pass the time.

Sorry, i!m a bad boy

[smokie36]

I suppose that one answer to the question I actually asked out of a total of 13 answers isn't too bad. It doesn't say much for English comprehension though

Excused as I am from this debate, I must interject to say that Engiish is now the World language. There are 250 million Chinese learning it, on top of 1 billion Indians that speak it, and that is before you start tacking the traditional English speaking nations.

English language skills are highly desirable, if not essential for international business. People have to be able to communicate.

The question at hand is should a BTS guard be able to speak English?

It might be the question at hand but it wasn't the question I asked.

To be honest with you, i'm at a function and the after dinner speaker was boring the life out of me so I just made up an answer to pass the time.

Sorry, i!m a bad boy

Take your trousers down right now and give yerself a good spanking...

[endure]

Do the Germans/Italians/French/Spanish gripe and moan because no-one speaks their language in Thailand?

To directly answer your question, which you are very keen to get us to do ... how would we know?

If they were to complain to native compatriot, I'm sure it would be in their native 'Germans/Italians/French/Spanish' language and not English, so, unless you are fluent in any of those languages, you would never know.

I've seen many a (older) German lose the plot when the Thai waitress’s service wasn't up to standard that he expects and then found it difficult to express his complaints in English.

I suspect that has more to do with service rather than language. In a previous life I went into a Hamburg restaurant and sat waiting for service. They were very busy. When the waitress eventually came to serve me she asked me if I was English. I said yes and asked her how she knew. She replied that if I'd been German I wouldn't have sat so long so quietly but would have 'lost the plot'.

[pattayadingo]

I, being Glasgwegian, cannot speak English, so I am excused from this charge of arrogance.

I can hear you now in broad Glaswegian. "Hey, You, Jimmae!! Nae balloons ..... "

[Sing_Sling]

I'm totally arrogant. I don't even bothering asking people if they speak it here anymore. For a while I did ask just to be polite but it's a waste of energy. I just blurt it out and see what happens. Most times people understand some English. Life is good.

No interest in learning the local language?

You really need ask? Ignorance is bliss for some - like walking through life in a fog - but complaining when you get wet

Why bother?

In government offices in the UK they now have Urdu, Hindi, Polish and Serbo Croat services....

I think Thailand should follow suit.

We know the UK is on par with Thailand, but how would having Urdu, Hindi, Polish and Serbo Croat services help you out?

Ann odd comment

An excerpt from Lai See (a column in South China Morning Post, Hong Kong) from years ago went something like this:

What do you call someone who can speak two languages? Answer: Bilingual

What do you call someone who can speak three languages? Answer: Trilingual

What do you call someone who can speak one language? Answer: Gweilo (Cantonese equivalent to farang)

You will find the saying applies to Anglos; Brits, Yanks, Aussies etc . . . not to other Europeans. And the saying has been around in Europe for decades - - - which is why so many international jobs go to Europeans, not Brits . . . makes sense

[IMA_FARANG]

I, being Glasgwegian, cannot speak English, so I am excused from this charge of arrogance.

Aye then, jimmy, but did ya nae put an extra g in Glaswegian?

O.K., I'll fess up then ...I'm an American. Bloody Yanks.

P,S. And as another poster has it.

What do you call a person who speaks several languages well?

Multi-lingual

What do you call a person who speaks two langiages well?

Bi-lingual

And what to you call a person who speaks only English, perhaps poorly?

Usually an American.

My only defense is that I graduated from secondary school in 1964...back when students were still required to actually learn something to pass their graduation exams.

Not true any longer, unfortunately.

[kerryk]

Foreigners who live in whatever non-English speaking countries should make some effort and learn the lingo. In the long term this is beneficial to both the natives and foreigners and makes life a lot easier for all concerned.

Not necessarily... my wife (a native) is very worried that I (a foreigner) will learn Thai, as she will only be able to gossip about me when I am not present, which would make life more difficult

On one hand this is a big red flag. Just talking about myself the only Thai woman I have had a relationship with that did not want me to speak Thai also had a Thai male partner. The other three Thai ladies that I have had a relationship with were happy, proud and expected me to speak Thai. In fact used to brag to friends and family on the phone that my Thai was excellent. I’m just saying…..

[Semper]

^^

Comrade JT, you've never been tempted to learn Russian? Some of the Russians, ain't too shabby looking (though the fat out of shape ones kind of gross everyone out.)

You're talking about the women, right?

[henryalleman]

I can only answer, to show you the nr. 1 on the top 10 list of most irritant tourist worldwide.

.

1- Americans

Don't they speak some kind of English.

IMHO the only place were it should be mandatory to speak English are hotels.

Besides that is demanding that an Thai national speak English is pure arrogance . And am I in favour that people should be able to communicate in more than 1 language? Of course , no doubt about it.

So demanding that the security guard should speak or understand English is foolish. His only duty is to control that people follow the rules.

Some people should start to realise that Imperialism and Colonial attitudes are outdated.

BTW, how many natives English speakers can communicate in other languages.

[h90]

English is the world language. Lucky Brits and Yankees.

Esperanto wasn't accepted

The Germans lost the war

The Russians lost their empire

English is left and it is simple to learn. The Indians learn English, the Chinese learn English, the Russians learn English. The bargirls learn English. So it is the tool to understand each other.

Even I regret it as German speaker it is a fact.

[exeter]

English is pretty much the de facto world language. I studied German in school. It was a dumb decision. As I subsequently learned by going to the German speaking countries in Europe, there's about a 90% chance that anyone who speaks German also speaks English. The 10% who don't are high school drop outs, and over there they start learning it very young. (I think it is gradeschool.) I tried to practice German. The German speakers wanted to practice their English...so I'd start speaking in German...and they started switching over to English to respond; My German was very seldom used unless dealing with the less educated German speakers. Hell, even coming back from the airport in Vienna the taxi driver (who was actually a gypsy) and I had a nice long conversation in English about racism against gypsies in Austria.

In Thailand I remember my cousin started learning English since grade school. She was 9 or 10 years old and I remember practicing with her (this was a while ago, she just graduated from Chula last year). Pretty much anyone in Thailand who has even a moderate education has a degree of English speaking ability. English speaking ability in Thailand is a sign of class. It means that the parents of children who can speak English could afford to send their children to good schools so they could speak English. And like the German example, people in Thailand who know how to speak English relish the opportunity to speak it with a native English speaker because the opportunity does not present itself very often..so don't feel bad about using English in Thailand. Like anyone else, Thais also want to practice what they learned in school with a native English speaker.

Yes thats about right, we are lucky that we speak English it is the world language, that is what many non English tell me also, I am not being arrogant it just happens to be a fact. It is also a fact that English speakers are not always the best at trying to learn a new language.

I think its important to learn a bit of the locals lingo wherever you are so you can get by and try and make an effort. Yes the locals do like to speak a bit of English with me, keep it simple like my Thai but thats ok.

Many of Thailand's signage whether it be in the street or magazines, brochures etc often has the headlines in English but the following text in Thai so what do they think of that, how do they deal with it? That situation is not uncommon in other countries as well.

[Jangot]

Way back in my youth, there was a move afoot to make Esperanto the common language for all.

As this was a 'manufactured' language, it would have avoided all this nationalistic clap-trap.

With the added advantage of it being simplified grammar and spelling - so avoiding all the weird oddities of English.

But then, American, by its dominant culture, I guess, just became universal, and Esperanto disappeared.

Any linguists out there know the full history and reason for the slide to oblivion of Esperanto?

[evadgib]

No interest in learning the local language?

Why bother?

In government offices in the UK they now have Urdu, Hindi, Polish and Serbo Croat services....

I think Thailand should follow suit.

.....and Welsh!

[harrry]

No interest in learning the local language?

Why bother?

In government offices in the UK they now have Urdu, Hindi, Polish and Serbo Croat services....

I think Thailand should follow suit.

.....and Welsh!

One day they will just add some service.

[submaniac]

^^

Comrade JT, you've never been tempted to learn Russian? Some of the Russians, ain't too shabby looking (though the fat out of shape ones kind of gross everyone out.)

You're talking about the women, right?

I specifically left gender neutral the comment about some of the Russians not being too shabby looking out of consideration for those on the board who may not share the same preferences as me. There are both physically attractive men and women in Pattaya, and whatever side anyone prefers, there's enough selection that you can probably find someone attractive.

But Semper, if you are looking for very attractive Russian girls, Pattaya definately has 'em.

The plus side is that the girls like to fairly skimpy outfits. I dunno what it is, but it's a "Russian thing". The downside is the proclivity towards wearing skimpy outfits is also shared by the less attractive ladies and also shared by the men (parading around in speedos). The pictures of the less attractive specimens have previously (unfortunately) been posted on Thaivisa before.

[bunta71]

When there is a business in any country and a sizable customer base speaks English, not having at least one English speaker available is just poor business. Yes I am a stupid American but do speak English, Spanish, French, Tagolog, and a little Waray (wife's philippine dialect) and a smattering of Thai.

[henryalleman]

When there is a business in any country and a sizable customer base speaks English, not having at least one English speaker available is just poor business. Yes I am a stupid American but do speak English, Spanish, French, Tagolog, and a little Waray (wife's philippine dialect) and a smattering of Thai.

So I presume in most shops in the US they understand and speak Spanish

[Lost in LOS]

Thais should learn english to better themselves, more opertunity, but........ this is their counry, their language, and you either speak their language or hope they speak some english.

If you are living in thailand then you should learn thai, pretty arrogant if you dont IMHO. Hard, but at least give it a try. Life is 100% better when speaking thai.

Can you imagine being in your coulntry and someone giving you sh*t because you cant speak their language? oh my, I would like to hear your answer to them

[keestha]

For Thais it is the most difficult to communicate with monolingual native English speakers, who don't know what it is to speak a language you didn't grow up with. Say Swedes or Germans speaking their school English, will use simple words like "rich" that an English speaking Thai will understand, not one of the many less known synonyms like affluent, prosperous or well off. Quite a few times I had to explain native English speakers that they should use simplified English.

[submaniac]

When there is a business in any country and a sizable customer base speaks English, not having at least one English speaker available is just poor business. Yes I am a stupid American but do speak English, Spanish, French, Tagolog, and a little Waray (wife's philippine dialect) and a smattering of Thai.

So I presume in most shops in the US they understand and speak Spanish

Well in areas that have a high Spanish speaking population, yes they do. There are parts of Los Angeles where people (and shops) speak Spanish exclusively.

[robblok]

A few days ago i was in Khao Sarn and some arrogant American girl was giving instructions on how the guys should fix her sandwich. She did not seem to understand her instructions were too complicated and her accent too thick. She was complaining about the staff and making rude comments . It reinforced my beliefs that many native English speakers are arrogant and dumb expecting everyone to understand them even if their accent is bad I know its a broad sweeping statement but non native speakers seem to understand that some people don't speak English. They also keep their English simpler if they think the person on the receiving end is not skilled in the language.

Anyway that girl was a prime example of how not to act in Thailand. If you want to be understood in Thailand speak Thai don't be an arrogant prick and expect people from low pay grades to understand your English and get angry when they get it wrong.

[4.real]

If it wasn't for the English speaking people of the world half the world would now be speaking only German and the other half would be speaking Japanese..

You would not be allowed to speak against this and all books in any other language would by now have been burnt.

PS The English language has more words than any other language; many of the words have come from other languages

And what poetry and prose can those words produce.

Take for instance Betjeman's simple line.'Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough;it isn't fit for humans now'.

French comes second with only one third of the number of words.

I am not 'arrogant' about the fact I speak only English.I have tried many times to learn other languages and fail miserably.

Edited March 25, 2012 by 4.real

[robblok]

If it wasn't for the English speaking people of the world half the world would now be speaking only German and the other half would be speaking Japanese..

You would not be allowed to speak against this and all books in any other language would by now have been burnt.

PS The English language has more words than any other language; many of the words have come from other languages

And what poetry and prose can those words produce.

Take for instance Betjeman's simple line.'Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough;it isn't fit for humans now'.

French comes second with only one third of the number of words.

I am not 'arrogant' about the fact I speak only English.I have tried many times to learn other languages and fail miserably.

Prove my point about arrogance and not willing to learn other languages. Its not like it comes easy to others they just have more willpower then you i guess.

You also seem to forget that the Russians did their share to defeat the Germans, arrogance all the way.

[bunta71]

When there is a business in any country and a sizable customer base speaks English, not having at least one English speaker available is just poor business. Yes I am a stupid American but do speak English, Spanish, French, Tagolog, and a little Waray (wife's philippine dialect) and a smattering of Thai.

So I presume in most shops in the US they understand and speak Spanish

Your assumption is correct.Most but not all. Never have to look far for bilingual folks there.

[Semper]

But Semper, if you are looking for very attractive Russian girls, Pattaya definately has 'em.

Well, I'm not. But if you could give directions where to find South American women (in Thailand), I would be thrilled.