Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[Pentalobe]

Some time ago a group of young Danish students brought a bunch of balloons, they just had bought on Khao San Road to their Hotel room.

What happend here was an explosion of the balloons, and one of the tourists got severe 3 degree burnings.

"It sounded like a burst from a machine-gun", their teacher said.

So there is a reason not to bring balloons into a packed BTS train, it's quite common sense not to do it.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Pentalobe

[Roj]

Evenmoney wrote -hehe.. ok, but why would someone make a light hearted joke about a father being beaten up in front of a seven year old daughter, forgive me for not understanding your humour.. did I miss the punchline..? please teach me more about your comedy, it went right past my head last time!

The joke was about the Irish accent and not about the assault, as you well know. You`re not half as smart as you like to think you are. I do believe you think you`ve lost face judging by your petty reply.

Why would you assume that, I have been online since posting that reply waiting for a debate! So you assume that because I took offence to the joke reagrding the victims family I have no sence of humour..? Well I don't care where you come from or what constitutes you as an individual but a reply isn't needed to your arguement. Ive won this round already! better luck next time.

But you have replied, and the joke wasn`t regarding the victims family. You are deliberately ignoring that fact because you perceive that your vanity has been slighted causing a loss of face. Never mind.

[p_brownstone]

flying sporran, I asked a question but you haven't answered. You implied, and may have even stated, that you have seen the CCTV footage. Another poster asked you, and I then asked you to confirm that you have, in fact, seen the footage and you danced around both questions.

I'll ask again. Have you, or have you not, seen the CCTV footage? Seems a simple enough question to me, in light of your comments indicating that you have, and a YES or NO will be fine. The second question was, "How did you gain access". Damaging Thai/farang relations or tourism, if released, doesn't seem like an adequate reply to me, in the absence of an unequivocal response that you have seen the CCTV footage and an explanation on how you managed that.

I'm not holding my breath waiting for an unequivocal response!

Patrick

[JMG]

If an official "clown with a name tag and whistle" tells you that balloons are against the rules and that you can not take them on the BTS, it is time to give him the balloons or take a taxi.

That is EXACTLY what I've been saying on the three threads dealing with this event for the past several days Ulysses G. Forget the inconsistencies. Behan could have taken it up with the BTS management after the event, but to ignore a 'clown with a name tag and a whistle' has ended in tears for Behan, and the tears may have a way to run yet, perhaps ending in deportation?? That will be a serious tears event.

JMG I think to put the guy down as a 'monkey in a uniform' is a bit silly, and probably racist. He may not be the top of the intellectual tree (are you?), but he's doing a job, the skill set for which he possesses. Initiative may not be a requisite, but slavishly following the rules most certainly is. You remind me of my father, and what a prick of a man he was. If you don't agree with him, he tips a bucket of **** on you.

If an official "clown with a name tag and whistle" tells you that balloons are against the rules and that you can not take them on the BTS, it is time to give him the balloons or take a taxi.

That is EXACTLY what I've been saying on the three threads dealing with this event for the past several days Ulysses G. Forget the inconsistencies. Behan could have taken it up with the BTS management after the event, but to ignore a 'clown with a name tag and a whistle' has ended in tears for Behan, and the tears may have a way to run yet, perhaps ending in deportation?? That will be a serious tears event.

JMG I think to put the guy down as a 'monkey in a uniform' is a bit silly, and probably racist. He may not be the top of the intellectual tree (are you?), but he's doing a job, the skill set for which he possesses. Initiative may not be a requisite, but slavishly following the rules most certainly is. You remind me of my father, and what a prick of a man he was. If you don't agree with him, he tips a bucket of **** on you.

It wasn't meant to be an insult or taken too seriously. I've laughed off many remarks in my time and I'm certain most do. Lighten up unless you get off venting.

[creck]

The most telling part in the video is at about 5:30 in where the guy himself is talking in English, and basically saying he's not perfect and in hindsight he shouldn't have done what he did. But he's maintaining he didn't deserve what he got.

The guy on the video being interviewed comes off a fair bit more calm and composed, of course, than the maniac at the BTS station the day all this occurred.

It seems the Guard might be right - he was drunk...

Earlier I thought the real problem may have been that his child had gone through the ticket barrier - it seems that was not so.

She also seems old enough to have been able to accept the lose of the balloons or a delay, by going out and taking a taxi.

My sympathy for this guy is reducing fast.

[F4UCorsair]

The problem with the written word JMG is that is difficult for even a skilled wordsmith to convey genuine lightheartedness when there is even a slight chance that the comments could be taken otherwise. One can only take the comment in the strictly narrative, and I stand by my suggestion that calling the guard a 'monkey in a uniform' is silly and possibly racist. For an Asian to be called thus by a foreigner, in his country, has potentially serious implications. You must ask yourself if you'd act similarly if he was standing in front of you, and my guess would be that you wouldn't. In Australia that would be racial vilification, and is a serious criminal charge.

It's far easier and better to tread the middle path and not make potentially derogatory comments, whether intended to be 'not insulting' or 'not taken too seriously', because they will be taken literally by some/many.

I wonder why it is that when some, faced with contrary comment, ask if the perceived opponent has taken his medication, or suggest he gets off venting. It's as insulting as suggesting the guard was a 'monkey in uniform' and is resorted to by the uncouth, immature, those lacking education, vocabulary, or both, and who interpret smart ar$e comment as clever.

Support for Mr Behan is evaporating fast, as it should.

Edited March 26, 2012 by F4UCorsair

[flyingsporran]

I see that someone on Drummonds website is threatening to really escalate this, this poor guy is going end up getting deported

"INTERNATIONAL NEWS. Not yet really, but I assure you that if John Behan is subjected to any more harassment, I personally will make sure it hits International News headlines and prime-time TV"

I have never said this. Please give me the link. Mods could you please watch out for posts like this

[JohnAllan]

I hope that they do release that CCTV footage. I find it very difficult to believe that this guy was attacked by security without asking for it in some way.

You what? You ARE in Thailand, and they don't employ these guys for their IQ, or for their dinner talk. That is not to say the teacher didn't upbraid the guard, but situations here often do necessitate that.

[JohnAllan]

I hope that they do release that CCTV footage. I find it very difficult to believe that this guy was attacked by security without asking for it in some way.

You what? You ARE in Thailand, and they don't employ these guys for their IQ, or for their dinner talk. That is not to say the teacher didn't upbraid the guard, but situations here often do necessitate that.

[F4UCorsair]

flying sporran, you've not yet given a YES or NO to my question asking whether you have seen the CCTV footage as you implied earlier. That you haven't given an answer, indicates that you probably haven't?? If it's YES, how did you gain access to it?

Edited March 26, 2012 by F4UCorsair

[sbk]

Can you people read???

let me make this as clear as possible

STOP FLAMING, STOP INSULTING, STOP THE RACIST COMMENTS

And yes, I did mean to yell. My limit has been reached. Next one to step over the line will receive a 10 day posting suspension

[sbk]

I see that someone on Drummonds website is threatening to really escalate this, this poor guy is going end up getting deported

"INTERNATIONAL NEWS. Not yet really, but I assure you that if John Behan is subjected to any more harassment, I personally will make sure it hits International News headlines and prime-time TV"

I have never said this. Please give me the link. Mods could you please watch out for posts like this

As OP notes, "someone said" Read your own comments, someone did say this

[DP25]

I see that someone on Drummonds website is threatening to really escalate this, this poor guy is going end up getting deported

"INTERNATIONAL NEWS. Not yet really, but I assure you that if John Behan is subjected to any more harassment, I personally will make sure it hits International News headlines and prime-time TV"

I have never said this. Please give me the link. Mods could you please watch out for posts like this

He didn't say you did, it's one of the user comments on your site

[Ferangled]

And round and round we go... The facts of this originally fairly minor incident have been steam rollered by the deluge of public "opinion" it's created. The outcry of speculative posters, sometimes bordering on libelous, nearly always ridiculous, have now become the real story.

What actually happened here has paled into insignificance as internet commentators make up their own scenarios and post to support their own agendas, in what makes for shameful reading from start to finish. For a country that relies so heavily on Tourism, the damage such an incident could cause if it does hit the international press is not inconsiderable, let alone the damage to the lives of the individuals involved or to race relations in Thailand.

It is clear that unless BTS release CCTV footage that shows the entire incident, the truth of the matter will forever be replaced by the concoctions of the vivid imaginations of those following the story.

I for one take from this sorry tale one lasting impression - when voicing one's opinion on a public internet forum you should carefully consider how your words will effect those directly involved in the topic. It is far too easy to hide behind the anonymity an internet forum gives you and totally disregard the consequence your posts may have.

When it gets to the stage where people are losing their jobs and a family, who's father was reported as a victim of a crime, are subject to death threats as a direct result of the strong feelings stirred up on internet forums, I would suggest it is time for certain people to take a break from their keyboards and remove the cape and y-fronts. The cause you are championing is not one of truth and justice, you are simply pandering to your own egos with a distinct lack of respect for those involved.

There are certain members of this forum that should really take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves this - "when your personal views will have a profound negative effect on others, is it really worth airing them in public, repeatedly?"

[flyingsporran]

I see that someone on Drummonds website is threatening to really escalate this, this poor guy is going end up getting deported

"INTERNATIONAL NEWS. Not yet really, but I assure you that if John Behan is subjected to any more harassment, I personally will make sure it hits International News headlines and prime-time TV"

I have never said this. Please give me the link. Mods could you please watch out for posts like this

He didn't say you did, it's one of the user comments on your site

Ok. I was wondering what prime time tv was nowadays

[stander]

flyingsporran, you really must pay more attention to what is being posted on your website. You are largely responsible for the escalation of this minor incident, shame on you.

[Ferangled]

flyingsporran, you really must pay more attention to what is being posted on your website. You are largely responsible for the escalation of this minor incident, shame on you.

It makes little sense to blame a reporter for err... reporting. I would suggest the escalation of this incident comes from how the public have decided to react to the articles... namely with wild speculation and baseless condemnation.

[FWIW]

And, of course, I believe it's pretty well established that the reason all this occurred in the first place was the teacher guy was turned away by the BTS guard because the teacher was carrying the balloons. The teacher could have chosen to avoid a confrontation and take a taxi or do something else instead. But he clearly chose confrontation instead, even as admitted by his English-language TV news video interview as posted earlier in this thread.

As I understand it, the man had already been on the system, in trains with the balloons. So, he goes past lets say a dozen security guards who don't say boo, then the next one says "cannot" - or even worse, "you can only take some".

I really don't think there is anyone, Thai or farang, who would not in that situation respond immediately and automatically with a "<deleted>?" (or your nearest language equivalent).

If BTS wants its rules enforced, it needs to enforce them uniformly, and at all times. Anything else is not "rules" it just dictatorship at the whim of the least trained employee.

Over and above all else however, is there is NO defense for a violent assault on a member of the public. That is simple brutality, and not "security" or enforcing the 'rules".

It saddens me to see so many farangs who think the only way to survive in Thailand is to be totally craven in all their interactions with Thais.

[submaniac]

flyingsporran, you really must pay more attention to what is being posted on your website. You are largely responsible for the escalation of this minor incident, shame on you.

It makes little sense to blame a reporter for err... reporting.

While the issue of a reporter reporting the news is one thing...it concerns me that the reporter did not read his own websites, and did not read all the comments on this thread before making a comment about what was said or not said.

[geriatrickid]

This event is really getting blown out of proportion now. I suppose it is good for web traffic for some, but at the end of the day, we have a number of people all suffering; the Thai BTS personnel, the Irishman and his family and to a certain extent, indirectly, other foreigners. I think the Irishman has learnt his lesson. I think the BTS got the message. Now, maybe it is time to forgive and move on. This need to harass and hound (threats of violence, deportation etc.) is over the top and criminal in and of itself. Would it be possible for everyone to take a deep breath and think of happy thoughts? I'm looking out the window at the storm clouds blowing in over Patong Bay. Mighty heavy ones at that. Battleship gray.

Edited March 26, 2012 by geriatrickid

[longstebe]

Maybe a poll would be better. This topic has been covered from every different angle me thinks.

1. He's wrong (the farang)

2. He's right (the farang)

3. Sitting on the fence waiting for the CCTV.

[Ferangled]

flyingsporran, you really must pay more attention to what is being posted on your website. You are largely responsible for the escalation of this minor incident, shame on you.

It makes little sense to blame a reporter for err... reporting.

While the issue of a reporter reporting the news is one thing...it concerns me that the reporter did not read his own websites, and did not read all the comments on this thread before making a comment about what was said or not said.

I think to be fair you need to consider that this is one man trying his best to offer an independent news source , not an omnipotent being able to simultaneously monitor content on his website and this one!

The post in question has only recently been made, and the poster has confused the issue by giving his name as "reporter" so when the comment is referenced, it appears to be questioning something AD wrote, which is incorrect...

@ Geriatrickid - Let's hope they bring with them some heavy rain that washes this sorry story into the gutters along with all the speculation and innuendo surrounding it.

[Nisa]

flyingsporran, you really must pay more attention to what is being posted on your website. You are largely responsible for the escalation of this minor incident, shame on you.

It makes little sense to blame a reporter for err... reporting. I would suggest the escalation of this incident comes from how the public have decided to react to the articles... namely with wild speculation and baseless condemnation.

You certainly can blame a reporter /blogger for writing slanted and inciting things with large headings to their constantly biased and opinion pieces that contain things like "Pack Attack!" such as was done with this incident while coming off as a legitimate news source while simply expressing another of his many negative based articles on Thailand. People need to take responsibility for themselves and shouldn't listen to hack pieces written on the internet but please don't act like we can't also put blame on this internet blogger who has had his own conviction / legal problems in Thailand (ax to grind). Nobody needs to listen when you tell an idiot to jump off a bridge but it certainly does make sense to blame you for doing so.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Maybe a poll would be better. This topic has been covered from every different angle me thinks.

1. He's wrong (the farang)

2. He's right (the farang)

3. Sitting on the fence waiting for the CCTV.

How about he is absolutely wrong and behaved in an inexcusable manner but that doesn't excuse any wrong doing that may (likely?) have been committed by station staff, on video we haven't seen yet.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Nisa

[Ferangled]

flyingsporran, you really must pay more attention to what is being posted on your website. You are largely responsible for the escalation of this minor incident, shame on you.

It makes little sense to blame a reporter for err... reporting. I would suggest the escalation of this incident comes from how the public have decided to react to the articles... namely with wild speculation and baseless condemnation.

You certainly can blame a reporter /blogger for writing slanted and inciting things with large headings to their constantly biased and opinion pieces that contain things like "Pack Attack!" such as was done with the claim to be reporting on the facts of this story and not simply expressing another of his slanted views of Thailand. People need to take responsibility for themselves and should listen to hack pieces written on the internet but please don't act like we can't also put blame on this internet blogger who has had his own conviction / legal problems in Thailand (ax to grind). Nobody needs to listen when you tell an idiot to jump off a bridge but it certainly does make sense to blame you for doing so.

Good god, I thought you might have tired of stirring up this thread by now. Please read and try to digest the content of this extract from a previous post:

When it gets to the stage where people are losing their jobs and a family, who's father was reported as a victim of a crime, are subject to death threats as a direct result of the strong feelings stirred up on internet forums, I would suggest it is time for certain people to take a break from their keyboards and remove the cape and y-fronts. The cause you are championing is not one of truth and justice, you are simply pandering to your own egos with a distinct lack of respect for those involved.

There are certain members of this forum that should really take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves this - "when your personal views will have a profound negative effect on others, is it really worth airing them in public, repeatedly"

[submaniac]

I think to be fair you need to consider that this is one man trying his best to offer an independent news source , not an omnipotent being able to simultaneously monitor content on his website and this one!

The post in question has only recently been made, and the poster has confused the issue by giving his name as "reporter" so when the comment is referenced, it appears to be questioning something AD wrote, which is incorrect...

You have a point; fair enough. I suppose my issue is this: I am one of those "on the fence" until the CCTV video is made public, but I can recognize that Mr. Behan's life has probably been made very miserable by this; he's apparently received death threats, his job may be jeopardized, he risks being forced to leave the country, and his family may even be split up. I cannot blame the reporter for reporting and doing his job...but for one man to face this much hostility for losing his temper--which I have done myself--I find disturbing. I want to blame the reporter...but I know I cannot justify this.

Edited March 26, 2012 by submaniac

[BigJohnnyBKK]

so when you receive a slap on the cheek , you give the other cheek to be slapped too ? your idea is to shut up and accept ? well people are different and in a country where its so easy to threat others ..some people have to stand and say STOP.

You can of course do what you like, but people who want to actually enjoy their stay here would be best served by dealing with reality as it presents itself, and if not forgetting their imported high-horse ideals, carefully choosing their battles to maximize their chances of actually accomplishing something rather than letting their emotions rule.

> "clown with a name tag and whistle"

> "monkey in a uniform"

I'm not only taking issue with such phrases on principle but anyone publicly voicing such ideas to a Thai would IMO be directly inviting consequences far out of proportion to his intention to insult. A head-bashing is getting off lig1htly.

Again I'm not talking about principles of justice, morally "deserving" - but say you were in South America or Africa, where warlords and drug kingpins are in control of your surroundings, would you mouth off in a way seemingly calculated to provoke violence?

The issue "is" and let's hope the truth will be shown on video, what " illegal" physical action an employee of the BTS took on a member of the public.

Yes, I hope we all get to see the video soon. However if a security guard forbids entry (for whatever reason) and the civilian physically pushes past I'm sure the law here (or anywhere) supports whatever level of force is required to prevent entry.

Even if Behan was simply verbally abusing the guard and received a knock on the head, I agree in principle that the guard would be in the wrong, but from a practical POV that doesn't change the fact that Behan brought it on himself. However if that is the case I would retract my opinion that he should be terminated from his teaching job.

Finally, knowing the economic situation of someone working in such a low-paid position as security guard, just being terminated from his job is IMO punishment enough. Being violent toward a farang shouldn't carry a harsher punishment than if he had done the same with an ordinary Thai.

Of course if he did this to a powerful hi-so it'd be "off with his head!" But then they wouldn't be caught dead on public transport anyway would they 8-)

As someone who has been here 2 years continuous and before that various periods in ten years , I find the arrogance of those Falang who have been in the country for a decade or decades nauseating. I have heard their lectures of how to deal with situations so many times and in reality they have become Thai in all but nationality and looks. Deal with Thai's in the way you see fit. You can still be polite . But never be afraid to tell them what you think firmly and seriously and use the fake smile if you feel inclined.

You seem to be implying that "becoming Thai" is a bad thing. I prefer to "deal with" Thais in a way that helps me live a happy life.

I have found that "being firm" and "telling people what I really think" is rarely polite, and just because a smile is used for social lubrication rather than just expressing my internal state of happiness doesn't make it fake.

Finally, my "arrogance" is exactly what I hope I've been successful in reducing by learning from the Thais.

Many of the problems we experience here are caused by the farang not only assuming but **showing** that they believe they are smarter, and Thais are stupid for not treating us across the board as if we're visiting royalty.

That my friend is arrogance.

[Nisa]

flyingsporran, you really must pay more attention to what is being posted on your website. You are largely responsible for the escalation of this minor incident, shame on you.

It makes little sense to blame a reporter for err... reporting.

While the issue of a reporter reporting the news is one thing...it concerns me that the reporter did not read his own websites, and did not read all the comments on this thread before making a comment about what was said or not said.

He would seem to read them because you can't even currently post there unless the content is approved and prior to that he had been deleting most all the negative comments about his articles that were posted there.

[Ferangled]

Maybe a poll would be better. This topic has been covered from every different angle me thinks.

1. He's wrong (the farang)

2. He's right (the farang)

3. Sitting on the fence waiting for the CCTV.

How about he is absolutely wrong and behaved in an inexcusable manner but that doesn't excuse any wrong doing that may (likely?) have been committed by station staff, on video we haven't seen yet.

I take it you're not sitting on the fence then? You are hypocritical in the extreme, composing the most biased posts I have read while then attacking others for writing biased articles.

"he is absolutely wrong and behaved in an inexcusable manner" In your own words that's a fair description of your conduct on this and the related threads.

[Nisa]

Maybe a poll would be better. This topic has been covered from every different angle me thinks.

1. He's wrong (the farang)

2. He's right (the farang)

3. Sitting on the fence waiting for the CCTV.

How about he is absolutely wrong and behaved in an inexcusable manner but that doesn't excuse any wrong doing that may (likely?) have been committed by station staff, on video we haven't seen yet.

I take it you're not sitting on the fence then? You are hypocritical in the extreme, composing the most biased posts I have read while then attacking others for writing biased articles.

"he is absolutely wrong and behaved in an inexcusable manner" In your own words that's a fair description of your conduct on this and the related threads.

Enlighten me and give me one thing that could have happened prior to the video rolling on the youtube video that could justify his entering a facility guards have told him not to and then go on to attack guards who are currently posing no threat to him while his 7-year old is in tow. Without a doubt this guy was in the wrong for his behavior but it doesn't excuse any wrong doing by station staff.

Edit: not to forget the fact that the guy has already admitted he was in the wrong but didn't deserve what he got for this.

Yea, I am real biased all right ... including being "most biased posts" you have seen.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Nisa