Racism Against Farangs

[JSixpack]

A lot of people who appear to be ignoring you are probably afraid to communicate with you because they don't speak English.

I have used public transport for nearly 30 years here and not once have I been told to take a taxi.

I have never had a problem with gov't hospitals either. And the poster who says you are stretching the over stretched gov't hospitals is talking rubbish. As a foreigner you are not on universal healh care, you are paying cash which is greatly appreciated.

+1. Never had such problems, even when I go to the dental clinic at a public hospital for a teeth cleaning for B280.

Perhaps you should look inwards rather than out to see if there is something about yourself that is off putting to the locals.

The problem's merely your own self-righteouness, proselytizing, and perceived eccentricity. Thais don't much care about your issues and don't welcome your "enlightenment" with implications of your moral superiority. Maybe you're just difficult to deal with--and why are you making them do it while paying them such a low amount for having to. They'd feel the same way about another Thai, in many cases.

Smile, speak some Thai, have and show a sense of humor, be polite and respectful, throw out a tip now and then, go w/ the flow--then your complaints will disappear. And as some posters have said, when you're paying for beer, you don't get champagne. Poor Thais accept this as a given and they endure well.

Edited March 28, 2012 by JSixpack

[h90]

most poor thais have a deep belief that all farangs have unlimited money

if you continue trying to live like this ,you will find yourself in these situations all the time

thais often ask me how much rent i pay ,how much i paid for my motorcycles , what job i

do and how big is the salary ?

i use govt hospitals but i pay about 500 thb to see a doctor there ,i know if you some farang have a house book

can get a place on the 30 thb medicial care scheme but i think that should be reserved for the

ones who really need it ,you will never be accepted in amongst the poorest thais because youre a farang and youre there

by choice since you could "easily afford to change lifestyle and eat in the better restaurants etc "

they are not priviledged and in general ,thais will try and climb UP the social ladder if possible (not downwards ) like you are

doing

you wil just have to get used to some misunderstandings living a life outside the box

And what you get for the 30 Baht medical care is only worth 30 Baht.....If you are sick you better pay 200-300 Baht and get what you need.

i think its the same doctor that treats the 30 thb medical card patients and the ones paying 400-500

i just think people on farang retirement packages or company owners should be taking resources out of the system

by squeezing the 30 thb medical scheme for the poorest of the poor

yes but the doctor will take more than 20 seconds time and he will give you antibiotics if you need antibiotics (which you'll pay extra).

400 Baht is what you pay in a private hospital for a long chat with the doc......If you pay 500 in public one than it is way overpriced.

[meom]

OK let's take another example, one of my student is english-thai, he's 16 and has to do military service for 3 years every weekend during hols.

He gets and I quote here "treated like shit because I'm farang". They call him all sort of names, his superiors make him sit in the sun for 2 hours, and all sort of craps like this, he gets it twice harder as a regular Thai.

Poor boy.

He could do with some lessons in French rudeness so I suggest teaching him the Gallic Shrug, Le Camenbert, Les Boules or La Moue.

[arthurwait]

Arthur you have lost me. What extra beds, staff, facilities? There aren't any.

Thats what I mean. If the extra money isn't enough to cover extra staff etc. that's needed or maybe gets eaten up by corruption the hospitals will be more stretched.

Whether it is or not the low paid, over worked nurses may just see a farang as someone extra they have to deal with that doesn't need to be there.

I maybe babbling on due to the humidity and lack of sleep though.

[h90]

A lot of people who appear to be ignoring you are probably afraid to communicate with you because they don't speak English.

I have used public transport for nearly 30 years here and not once have I been told to take a taxi.

I have never had a problem with gov't hospitals either. And the poster who says you are stretching the over stretched gov't hospitals is talking rubbish. As a foreigner you are not on universal healh care, you are paying cash which is greatly appreciated.

+1. Never had such problems, even when I go to the dental clinic at a public hospital for a teeth cleaning for B280.

Perhaps you should look inwards rather than out to see if there is something about yourself that is off putting to the locals.

The problem's merely your own self-righteouness, proselytizing, and perceived eccentricity. Thais don't much care about your issues and don't welcome your "enlightenment" with implications of your moral superiority. Maybe you're just difficult to deal with--and why are you making them do it while paying them such a low amount for having to. They'd feel the same way about another Thai, in many cases.

Smile, speak some Thai, have and show a sense of humor, be polite and respectful, go w/ the flow--then your complaints will disappear. And as some posters have said, when you're paying for beer, you don't get champagne. Poor Thais accept this as a given and they endure well.

Or pay in the bus what you would normally pay for the taxi. That 300 Baht will make the driver and the money collector smile and they will agree with the moral superiority.

Also with a 500 Baht tip you'll be very welcomed the next time you go there

[aneliane]

Also with a 500 Baht tip you'll be very welcomed the next time you go there

Yeah great suggestion : Encourage bad attitude, so the next person will have to also pay 500 baht to get served !

No wonder the country is changing so much !

[Eff1n2ret]

Your logic seems to be distorted by your mission, viz “This is not why I came here for: I chose to help”. Well, maybe they don’t want your help, thank you very much. You seem to contend that it is us other farangs who put up the cost of living in Thailand, but the collective influence on the economy of those of us who live here (as opposed to tourists) is probably minimal to zero.

And this is just nonsense:- “Farangs bringing their western lifestyle here ( ie double or triple environmental footprint) are the ones destroying their beautiful country, not me!”. Look at any beach or picnic spot after a weekend, look at the disgusting rubbish dumped in the lanes around which I cycle every morning, and it’s obvious that the Thai people are quite happy to destroy their beautiful country all on their own. Like it or not, the consumer society is burgeoning here as throughout Asia because this is where the wealth is being created. The influences may be western, but they come via tv and the internet, and a growing Thai middle class is driving cultural change in this country.

In the UK the strongest resentment against foreigners arises in the communities where they settle, the low-class poor indigenous population who feel their lifestyle threatened. So if you chose to live among the poor in Thailand, there may indeed be some prejudice because you don’t fit their profile of a farang. You may be exposed to prejudice because you are both farang and female, or because you appear to be ‘kee-nok’, or a freak. But that doesn’t mean that Thais in general are racist towards farangs in general, which your headline implies. You ask, “How do you deal with it?” - on the very rare occasions when I have felt disadvantaged in my dealings with a Thai person, I mostly put it down to my poor ability at speaking their language. And on the occasions when I feel I’m being asked to pay too much I exercise my rights as a customer and walk away – no big deal.

[bermondburi]

Regarding government hospitals I don't know what you are talking about as normally you will be a paying customer and money talks. I find your comments on public transport very odd. Although I don't take buses apart from travelling long distances if someone did tell me to take a taxi I would be asking them why I should. Don't just sit there and let people speak rubbish to you. Good Thai language skills are a bonus at this point so that everyone is aware of what is happening. You will probably find that the other passengers are on your side and just want the bus to get a move on. I have no real thoughts on the way you live your life but each to their own as they say.

One final point though, is that generally ( although education levels may be lacking as a whole ) I tend to find 'poor' Thais the friendliest of the lot and one of the joys of being here ( for me ) is to have a chat with whoever, because I do think that Thais as a people are pretty chatty and friendly.

A good example of this was the other night at a restaurant I get talking to a car park guy whilst having a fag. We swapped srories about the flood and what happened to our houses etc. Nothing special but just one of those little chats that smoothes you way through life here. A richer Thai probably wouldn't have spoken to me. Nothing about me but they tend to keep themselves to themselves more. Up to them. Their loss.

As for service people. Their job is to serve you. They probably feel shy at their lack of English skills and don't believe you can speak Thai. Be more direct if you can and if you can speak to them in Thai even better. You can almost see the look of relief a Thai gets when they see that the foreigner can speak Thai.

Don't want to sound funny but what do you look like ? Do you look strange or unkempt ?

Sounds like it could be more do to with you.

[regine]

WOW

My own serving reason would be to act like you do

The truth hurts, or maybe you don't understand what the definition of self-serving means.

Thailand is a newly industrialized country. You want it to stay the same (or go back to being underdeveloped/third world), Thais want progress. Thailand needs progress.

Increased cost of living = higher GDP, increased economic growth, increased industrialization = good for Thais, bad for Western "hippies" and they're egotistical ways.

[trainman34014]

Try looking in the mirror. If you see a bag of <deleted> looking back at you then you have found the problem ! Sadly, I see all too many Farang in Thailand looking like the aforementioned and I know from comments made by my wifes family that Thai's find it hard to understand that Farang who are supposed to be so much better off than them look so scruffy or poorly dressed.

[92302]

This is the system, get use to it or.....

Exactly. Back in the US a Thai once asked me how to get somewhere on the public transport. My response was "if you were rich enough to get here from thailand, then you are rich enough to take a taxi." I then pointed to the cab stand, smiled and walked away.

Wouldn't it of been hilarious if the guy pulled a gun and blew your head off for being such a tosser.

[aneliane]

WOW

My own serving reason would be to act like you do

The truth hurts, or maybe you don't understand what the definition of self-serving means.

Thailand is a newly industrialized country. You want it to stay the same (or go back to being underdeveloped/third world), Thais want progress. Thailand needs progress.

Increased cost of living = higher GDP, increased economic growth, increased industrialization = good for Thais, bad for Western "hippies" and they're egotistical ways.

Wow lack of education is soaring outside Thailand too.

Re read the impact of wild economic growth that does not include environmental, social and urban planning and you end with urban nightmares like Djakarta, environmental disasters like last year's flood, and bigger social disparities. I don't think that what Thai people want, Educated people now know that economical growth does not equal progress and no I am not a hippy. lol

[mackes]

Thailand is unique in that perspective that it never been colonized, so no one ever teached the Thais that they are a subordinate culture, thats why they think that they are superior. On the other hand, you have racism in all culture and countries especially among the uneducated, it's a kind of fear for the unknown that often is used by oppurtunistic politicians to catch votes among the masses.

You choosed to live in a country where you are different and furthermore you choose to live a different life. Ordinary uneducated people will fear you, to avoid this settle down in an environment with more educated people, they will find you interesting. Or you will have to coop with it. A good custom is to ask people why they are impolite, maybe you get a good answer or probably a better treatment next time

[Eff1n2ret]

Re read the impact of wild economic growth that does not include environmental, social and urban planning and you end with urban nightmares like Djakarta, environmental disasters like last year's flood, and bigger social disparities. I don't think that what Thai people want, Educated people now know that economical growth does not equal progress and no I am not a hippy. lol

God almighty, spare us the sermon. If you find people in Thailand give you a hard time, it's not racism, they just can't stand you.

[thaihome]

I’m unsure where the OP (aneliane) is from, but as a suggestion, he should have before coming to Thailand, picked on of the ghettos of his own country, likely populated with a different race then himself, and lived there with his chosen lifestyle.

Would be interesting to see how he got along with the lower uneducated class of his own country.

TH

[richard_smith237]

The issue here is Racism from Thai’s against Westerners and does it exist in limited amounts.

In the very same manner I’m sure it exists in some Westerners in Thailand against Thai’s. In fact I hear racism against Thai’s far more commonly in Thailand from Westerners.

Have I experienced it? I’m sure I have, but I probably shrugged it of as dealing with some idiot.

In Thailand we as Westerners can get treated quite terribly and far worse than a Thai might in the same situation. It is also true that as Westerners in Thailand we can and often do get treated very well and better than Thai’s in the same situation.

Generally however, we simply get treated the same as other people, sometimes it takes a little extra effort due to language and cultural differences, however, in most cases the effort is there to be treated not any better or not any worse but just enough to get the task done. Mostly I see simply indifference, a take it or leave it attitude and why should be we treated any better or worse than anyone else who behaves normally?

As a Side Note: Those working for institutions generally have a capacity to look down on everyone, there appears to be a ‘shit rolls down hill’ attitude and if you do not work for the Police, Immigration, a Thai Public company (i.e. TOT, PTT etc) and need something, the bureaucratic brick wall is efficiently universal. In these cases a special approach is necessary and each Thai has their own way of Kraeng-Jai (brown-nosing) to by pass this. Westerners often lack this locally necessary skill, some officials accept this as one of our idiosyncrasies, others place further brick walls until we can learn.

In these situations those who have the power can exercise what ever attitude they please against whom they please until they fear or become aware that this may backfire on them.

People want to be respected – this is universally the most common human trait, transcending culture and race.

Short story and on the Topic of Being Respected by Thais: I was in a bar with a number of close friends (Thai’s – some of them Police). One guy, whom I knew but was not so close to brought a girl along. We were all introduced, she wai’d everyone except me. Her boyfriend did nothing, my friends scolded her and asked her why she wouldn’t wai me. Her response was that she doesn’t like Farang’s because they think all Thai girls are hookers…. My response was to ask her if she was a hooker !... very funny, the girl has said something highly stupid and was called on it, everyone laughed (even the other girls), lots of cheers and chinking of glasses… moved on, next subject, enjoyable remainder of evening....

The point here is: some people will be disrespectful and we can’t do anything about that. We can’t reeducate the world, when these issues occur we can only take them lightly – In most cases if handled well the majority around us will favor our response.

[wana]

most poor thais have a deep belief that all farangs have unlimited money

if you continue trying to live like this ,you will find yourself in these situations all the time

thais often ask me how much rent i pay ,how much i paid for my motorcycles , what job i

do and how big is the salary ?

i use govt hospitals but i pay about 500 thb to see a doctor there ,i know if you some farang have a house book

can get a place on the 30 thb medicial care scheme but i think that should be reserved for the

ones who really need it ,you will never be accepted in amongst the poorest thais because youre a farang and youre there

by choice since you could "easily afford to change lifestyle and eat in the better restaurants etc "

they are not priviledged and in general ,thais will try and climb UP the social ladder if possible (not downwards ) like you are

doing

you wil just have to get used to some misunderstandings living a life outside the box

And what you get for the 30 Baht medical care is only worth 30 Baht.....If you are sick you better pay 200-300 Baht and get what you need.

i think its the same doctor that treats the 30 thb medical card patients and the ones paying 400-500

i just think people on farang retirement packages or company owners should be taking resources out of the system

by squeezing the 30 thb medical scheme for the poorest of the poor

yes but the doctor will take more than 20 seconds time and he will give you antibiotics if you need antibiotics (which you'll pay extra).

400 Baht is what you pay in a private hospital for a long chat with the doc......If you pay 500 in public one than it is way overpriced.

i didnt need a chat

i needed stitches

500 covered

A triage nurse to access it

a doctor to check it

a Nurse to clean and stitch

and finaly a bag of medicine (painkillers and anti-biotics )

i think a thai woud have got the same treatment for 30 thb

buti thought 500 was very cheap as it was

in europe ,it would cost 3000thb just to see an ER doctor

(then treatment $$$$)

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as the reply was made inside the quoted post making it difficult to determine who said what. When making reply to a post make your reply outside the quote tags.

A flame post using disguised profanity has been removed as well as the replies.

[Trembly]

No I wash only once a year to save water lol

Well, there's your answer . . .

Seriously, it's hard to give you insights because it's not an experience I've come up against.

OK let's take another example, one of my student is english-thai, he's 16 and has to do military service for 3 years every weekend during hols.

He gets and I quote here "treated like shit because I'm farang". They call him all sort of names, his superiors make him sit in the sun for 2 hours, and all sort of craps like this, he gets it twice harder as a regular Thai.

There is an institutional racism in Thailand : from early school were your are taught Thai are a superior race and the other race therefore "inferior" to all governmental institutions: army, hospitals, public transports resent foreigners like any other country does.

If you are protected enough either by only going private (taxi/private hospitals ...) or if you have a gf dealing with institutional for you, you don't have to deal with it

If not, tough shit basically

I've spent more than three-quarters of my Thai/English life in Thailand, with fortune seeing fit that my back should be as familiar to the whip of austerity as to the cushion of wealth and I've never experienced such a thing. In fact my mixed heritage has more often that not proven to be an ace up my sleeve in just about any situation. Maybe it's more to do with him? Maybe he is just playing the hand that he was dealt poorly, or is just plain unlucky.

Its coz I'm loog-krueng innit!

Edited March 28, 2012 by Trembly

[theblether]

I don't know you however I feel I've met your type before...........In the UK they are called cat women, the old eccentric ladies that end up with 40 cats running wild and living alone. All the kids fear them and the mums warn you to stay away from the weird lady at the end of the street.

I looked at your profile, your not old, your 43, but I have met you. I met you in my shop last week. Your the overly forward and slightly shambolic lady that came in looking for the bed that has never been made, it exists in your head because it's the bed you think that should have been made, because you like it, everyone should like it.

Your the lady in my shop last week that jumped like a scalded cat when I mentioned the word female, then abruptly called me sexist for mentioning that word. I was deeply insulted by you, who do you think you are? You can't judge me, but by your responses on this thread you feel you can judge everyone.

Your the lady that pays to the baht in the market, but blows 20,000 baht on soi dogs. The people in the market know you, and they don't like you, in their mind your a parsimonious weirdo, full of self righteousness and worth, but not realizing that you are out of track of the real world.

You don't realize that we normal people out here are reading this thread and wondering why you are not spending 20,000 baht a month helping the poor in your community, why you are not helping to educate the children, pay for medicine for the grandmother. I know why, it's because you can't handle people, that's why your a loner, and in a city of 100 million, you would still be alone.

That's up to you, I don't criticize you for it. I have a daughter who is heading down your path, that's her choice too.

However do us all a favour and have a good look at yourself, remember what Rabbie Burns the Scottish poet said.

O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us........... (O would some power the gift to give us to see ourselves as others see us.)

This is the problem you have......you can't see what others see. I think it wouldn't matter what country you lived in you would come across the problems you are facing, it's not racism, it's you.

I don't suggest you change except in one regard. To solve a problem first recognize you have one, you have recognized you have a problem.......and you have come here looking for a solution, I may be wrong, but I think you will find the solution lies within.

Edited March 28, 2012 by theblether

[David48]

Heck ... I was just simply going to say that I found it difficult to emphasise with the OP!

.

[theblether]

Heck ... I was just simply going to say that I found it difficult to emphasise with the OP!

.

You know me with my blethering.......why use one word when a thousand will do

[David48]

Hey ... 'parsimonious', not a Scottish trait?

Edited March 28, 2012 by David48

[brit1984]

The OP's story reminds me of a few lefty-hippy-girls in my college at uni... they did everything possible to mark themselves out as different and then moaned that they were not treated the same as everyone else... Thailand is known to be one of the easiest countries for ex-pats to settle in (largely due to the Thai people's tolerance of foreigners) and from the short time I have been here I can see why... if the OP feels uncomfortable here I think she should consider moving to Camden in London where she can meet many like-minded individuals

[richard_smith237]

Heck ... I was just simply going to say that I found it difficult to emphasise with the OP!

.

You know me with my blethering.......why use one word when a thousand will do

Or the blether does the emphasising, while you simply empathise with the Op and for the rest of us reading through the blethers blithering blather...

[F1fanatic]

Heck ... I was just simply going to say that I found it difficult to emphasise with the OP!

.

You know me with my blethering.......why use one word when a thousand will do

Its nothing to do with 'blethering' - you were just 'out of order'!

Some people prefer people to animals whilst others prefer animals to people. HOWEVER, my experience is that those who prefer animals can understand why others feel differently - unlike those who think animals are there to 'serve' human needs.

[StreetCowboy]

This is the system, get use to it or.....

Exactly. Back in the US a Thai once asked me how to get somewhere on the public transport. My response was "if you were rich enough to get here from thailand, then you are rich enough to take a taxi." I then pointed to the cab stand, smiled and walked away.

Kilgore Trout

You've shown yourself to be a sensitive man of the world now aren’t you.

I wonder how many of your fellow compatriots would agree with your lesson in diplomacy?

Anyone from the "USA" care to comment?

.

I think a lot of Americans would be too embarassed to admit they did not know how to use their local public transport.

I am equally ignorant of my own public transport, although according to a visiting friend, the bus was surprisingly convenient.

SC

[h90]

Try looking in the mirror. If you see a bag of <deleted> looking back at you then you have found the problem ! Sadly, I see all too many Farang in Thailand looking like the aforementioned and I know from comments made by my wifes family that Thai's find it hard to understand that Farang who are supposed to be so much better off than them look so scruffy or poorly dressed.

I am always shocked how some Farangs are dressed. Sitting in a restaurant in short trouser and flip flops, while all Thais around have normal long trousers...and a hairy old mans leg isn't something beautiful

[BookMan]

or if you have a gf dealing with institutional for you, you don't have to deal with it

Ain't that the truth.

[mca]

Because of my lifestyle I get confronted mostly to what we could say are "poor" Thai people, who I found have an increasingly negative attitude towards me

To be honest in my experience I've found the "poorer" Thai people tend to be the friendliest ones. Once they know you speak Thai they like to have a good laugh with you.

Shop assistants refusing to serve me,

Do you mean point blank refusal so you have to leave the shop or fobbing you off onto another member of staff? If it's the latter they're most probably shitting themselves at the thought of having to communicate with a westerner. If it's the former I can only say in my years here it's never happened to me. Is it a regular occurrence or a one off?