Running A Bar On Samui

[itishothere]

If you want to start a business with the aim of making a living, there are hundreds of other enterprises from which to choose from.

Please feel free to start the list.

Of course, it has to be Samui specific, gets around/overcomes the business ownership rules, number of employees, restricted professions, land ownership limitations, and, preferably the local (aggressive) competition. Oh, and of course, is an option for the average dreamer who doesn't have the resources of Bill Gates.

[wasas]

I think it is fascinating (ironic? pathetic?) that the educated Westerner (we like to think, mostly correctly, that we have a better education and understanding of the world than the average local) who comes to Samui (Thailand?) uses their educated and experienced mind to come up with the hackneyed, mundane, uninspired business of opening a bar. Or a massage parlor...or a restaurant. I mean really, that's it? That's the most creative you can get?

If you want to start a business with the aim of making a living, there are hundreds of other enterprises from which to choose from. The lack of creative thinking here on the part of "business-minded foreigner" is truly phenomenal.

There are only a few good reasons to open a bar here:

A.) You have enough money to burn and want to do it as a sort of hobby.

A.1) You have just enough money to open a bar, but only want to do so so you can have the experience and then get out after a year or so, dam_n the loss.

B.) You have a confirmed base of friends who will hang out at your place, thus just keeping you afloat since without the captive audience, you'd be in the red every night.

C.) You can afford to go in very big and can buy out a prime location (of which virtually all are occupied, ipso facto) and are looking at a business model that starts making money after 3 to 5 years. You need to be able to suck up the negative cash flow for some time, and have some way to ensure that the landlord will not intervene and as has been well-documented, raise the cost to you such that you can no longer project any profitability.

People who say, "Oh, it's okay, I just want to make enough to keep me here and live a simple life," are missing the fundamental excitement and satisfaction of being successful. If you build a house, you don't build a shack just suitable for living; if you buy a guitar you don't buy one that won't stay in tune but plays, sort of; if you enter a competition, you don't do it to come in 5th or 10th.

Of course, some are satisfied with "just getting by" and breaking even, but for me, what's the point? If you go into business with this flaccid mindset then you are already a loser.

And by the way, I'd rather try something creative and end up failing than following the sheep herd into Barville and, oops, fail at that. I use the crystal ice idea as a thought question but I'd rather go down on a novel and potentially interesting and profitable idea than crap out on a bar, which basically everyone knows is a very, very low percentage gamble.

And win or lose, later in life you have a much better story than, "I ran a bar for a while in Thailand".....yawn....

Nobody who wants to run a bar are not as you say"missing fundamental exitement of being successful" maybe they have made their money elsewhere and now want an easy life of running a bar,some people need to work to stop the boredom

[insertmembernamehere]

Nobody who wants to run a bar are not as you say"missing fundamental exitement of being successful" maybe they have made their money elsewhere and now want an easy life of running a bar,some people need to work to stop the boredom

This, sir, was point A, if you would care to double-check.

You want me to start the list? This means you believe such a list cannot be created? You maybe right on the number; I might have been better to say "scores."

"...business ownership rules, number of employees, restricted professions, land ownership limitations" etc. ...Yeah....that's part of any business in Thailand, bar or otherwise. Someone else can look it up but I recall there being a slew of things that you can get a Non-Imm O visa for, for starters.

I think you are caught up in this lock-step thinking that the only three things a foreigner can do is bar, restaurant or massage parlor. My point, however hyperbolic it might have seemed, is that one can definitely expand the horizons when it comes to possible things to do here.

[BangrakBob]

Nobody who wants to run a bar are not as you say"missing fundamental exitement of being successful" maybe they have made their money elsewhere and now want an easy life of running a bar,some people need to work to stop the boredom

This, sir, was point A, if you would care to double-check.

You want me to start the list? This means you believe such a list cannot be created? You maybe right on the number; I might have been better to say "scores."

"...business ownership rules, number of employees, restricted professions, land ownership limitations" etc. ...Yeah....that's part of any business in Thailand, bar or otherwise. Someone else can look it up but I recall there being a slew of things that you can get a Non-Imm O visa for, for starters.

I think you are caught up in this lock-step thinking that the only three things a foreigner can do is bar, restaurant or massage parlor. My point, however hyperbolic it might have seemed, is that one can definitely expand the horizons when it comes to possible things to do here.

Seba Smith "there are more ways than one to skin a cat"

[ydraw]

I think you are caught up in this lock-step thinking that the only three things a foreigner can do is bar, restaurant or massage parlor. My point, however hyperbolic it might have seemed, is that one can definitely expand the horizons when it comes to possible things to do here.

This thread is about running a bar. I'd be happy to comment in a thread about other businesses too, but this isn't it.

[Malice in Wonderland]

Having a bar on the roadside, as there used to be only on the other side of the adjacent MacDonalds, is hardly a stroke of genius, but then here that might actually qualify.

Biilabong Surf Club, Lamai - R.I.P. 2001-2008

[Boater]

Having a bar on the roadside, as there used to be only on the other side of the adjacent MacDonalds, is hardly a stroke of genius, but then here that might actually qualify.

Biilabong Surf Club, Lamai - R.I.P. 2001-2008

Billabong was always a very busy bar....

[jamesbrock]

Speaking of bars in Lamai, does anyone know what happened to that bar between Bamboo bar Chillin'? (Was it Coconut or something?) Went to the beach the other day, and there was an excavator parked on the sand where the bar once stood...

[Rooo]

Speaking of bars in Lamai, does anyone know what happened to that bar between Bamboo bar Chillin'? (Was it Coconut or something?) Went to the beach the other day, and there was an excavator parked on the sand where the bar once stood...

It died & they buried it. RIP.

[insertmembernamehere]

Speaking of bars in Lamai, does anyone know what happened to that bar between Bamboo bar (and) Chillin'?

Bamboo bar is opening a Japanese place.

[jamesbrock]

Bamboo bar is opening a Japanese place.

*cries into his pillow*

[insertmembernamehere]

Bamboo bar is opening a Japanese place.

*cries into his pillow*

I am not picking up the humor/sarcasm. I should be sad? I like Nipponese food, if it is done correctly and not stupidly priced.

[insertmembernamehere]

The bar formerly called Eden is being remodeled to be reborn as a restaurant. I spoke to one of the owners recently, or perhaps I should say one of the people putting money into the project, but not one who will be here on Samui.

It is going to be some sort of Latino or south of the border-themed place. I was told specifically, but was not paying close attention. I asked this fellow if he had spoken to any of the prior tenants, and he said no. I asked him if he was aware why the tenants are not there now, and he said no.

Another example of how it so often works here. Getting involved in a project with zero business management input. No homework done. No research at all. No thought of the fact that across the street and next door (and around) are girlie bars blasting loud, out of date loser music from hell. The perfect mood-setting for a relaxing meal. Oh, and forget that the owners have already acted as scoundrels and have no compunction in killing a successful business for sheer greed.

I almost feel sorry (sort of) for this guy. He clearly has money, but to get involved in a game where the deck is so heavily stacked against success is stupidity and the height of folly. The Thai owner must be having a great ol' laugh with his Sangsom buddies over this one. As P.T. Barnum didn't say, There's a sucker born every minute.

[ydraw]

The Chef is from Paraguay, I imagine it will be some kind of Tapas place and they'll be gone within 6 months, since the only place on that street that ever has customers is the Rolling Stone bar, and even though I'm a fan of latin food I doubt they will be able to make much of a living out of us cheap bastards.

The Bar opposite (formerly known as Huggies) has also been leased now to some locals who are putting a thai restaurant in it.

Edited August 2, 2012 by ydraw

[BigC]

The bar formerly called Eden is being remodeled to be reborn as a restaurant. I spoke to one of the owners recently, or perhaps I should say one of the people putting money into the project, but not one who will be here on Samui.

It is going to be some sort of Latino or south of the border-themed place. I was told specifically, but was not paying close attention. I asked this fellow if he had spoken to any of the prior tenants, and he said no. I asked him if he was aware why the tenants are not there now, and he said no.

Another example of how it so often works here. Getting involved in a project with zero business management input. No homework done. No research at all. No thought of the fact that across the street and next door (and around) are girlie bars blasting loud, out of date loser music from hell. The perfect mood-setting for a relaxing meal. Oh, and forget that the owners have already acted as scoundrels and have no compunction in killing a successful business for sheer greed.

I almost feel sorry (sort of) for this guy. He clearly has money, but to get involved in a game where the deck is so heavily stacked against success is stupidity and the height of folly. The Thai owner must be having a great ol' laugh with his Sangsom buddies over this one. As P.T. Barnum didn't say, There's a sucker born every minute.

you say he is a sucker but u have to wonder how he had money in the first place added with the fact that by the sounds of it he doesn't care about customers.

you do the maths

[insertmembernamehere]

Speaking with this fellow, I did not get the impression that he was going into this venture to lose money. No one in their right mind will invest (even as a silent partner in the end) in a business that is knowingly doomed to fail.

[BigC]

Speaking with this fellow, I did not get the impression that he was going into this venture to lose money. No one in their right mind will invest (even as a silent partner in the end) in a business that is knowingly doomed to fail.

Well there is your answer

[marstons]

Owner of dream girls seems to do OK. not many bars run to well as guys running them dont have a clue, never run a business before and seem to think you can run a business in thailand drunk all the time. Buy expensive booze because cant be bothered to get from cheaper places and expect to sell expensive.

the going to get girls, premier league footbal and do English food does not work. Premeir league Football is only on for a limited time of the week and will not keep a business going. As mentioned a good example is a bar in Ban Rak who always has nice ladies and he is a personable charcter, but also as another business, that bar seems to pay as it has good expat trade for obvious reasons. Also maybe because 1 of the M's has gone.

[ydraw]

Marstons, premier league football and English food was what kept Eden Bar going as Lamai's most popular expat bar for 11 years. Then the landlord came along one day and decided to double their lease, purely out of greed.

The bar sat empty for over a year before they realised their mistake and reduced the lease price back to the original figure. Now, as IMNH describes, some other sucker is taking on that place. How long before the landlord gets greedy again?

The failure of businesses here is not always due to stupid, drunk expats.

Most of all though, the reason so many bars and other businesses are failing now is because tourist numbers have been steadily declining since 2005. People are going back to Phuket in record numbers. There are still no direct flights to Samui from any Western country. As long as that remains true the situation won't improve.

Edited August 5, 2012 by ydraw

[marstons]

Marstons, premier league football and English food was what kept Eden Bar going as Lamai's most popular expat bar for 11 years. Then the landlord came along one day and decided to double their lease, purely out of greed.

The bar sat empty for over a year before they realised their mistake and reduced the lease price back to the original figure. Now, as IMNH describes, some other sucker is taking on that place. How long before the landlord gets greedy again?

The failure of businesses here is not always due to stupid, drunk expats.

Most of all though, the reason so many bars and other businesses are failing now is because tourist numbers have been steadily declining since 2005. People are going back to Phuket in record numbers. There are still no direct flights to Samui from any Western country. As long as that remains true the situation won't improve.

Hence thats why i said premier league and english food is not the solution, cant see any western direct flights to Samui, a long way for a 737 or A320. Times have changed and it takes some thinking outside the box to survive in changing market. The western tourist have not simply changed to Phuket beacuase of direct flights they are staying at home or travelling in Europe on the many low cost airlines or charters. If the reason for faliure of an expat bar was an issue with that unti why could it not have been moved to another more reasonable landlord with same recipe, same expat customers. Just checked all Phuket arrivals today, 1 flight from a western country that was Brussels, high season in Europe now!

[ydraw]

I guess you don't consider Australia a western country then. Many of the flights from Europe into Phuket are charters. They won't be recorded on the arrivals list. OTOH 0% of the flights into Samui are charters.

The western tourist have not simply changed to Phuket beacuase of direct flights

Yes, they have.

If the reason for faliure of an expat bar was an issue with that unti why could it not have been moved to another more reasonable landlord

They did move, but since no other sufficiently sized places were available in the area, they were forced into opening 2 smaller bars in 2 different places instead of 1 large one.

I don't see why you're trying to suggest that there was some kind of other factor. The reason for the closure of Eden bar was well-known to all of their customers, which included most of the residents of Lamai from English-speaking countries.

The landlord increased their key money from 200,000 per year to 400,000 per year with no warning. They were expecting to renew their lease for 600,000 over three years, but the landlord demanded 1.2 million. That was the factor that caused the closure of the business, nothing else. It also forced the closure of Comedy Club a bit further up the road, when they increased their key money as well.

Keep in mind that these doubling of key money occurred in an environment where tourism on Samui has been steadily decreasing for at least 5 years.

After Eden Bar sitting unoccupied for a year, they reduced the key money back down to 200,000 per year and immediately had a lot of interest and found a taker. What IMNH is getting at is there's not really any reason to believe they wouldn't do it again to anyone who manages to create a successful business in that property.

Edited August 5, 2012 by ydraw

[BigC]

Marstons, premier league football and English food was what kept Eden Bar going as Lamai's most popular expat bar for 11 years. Then the landlord came along one day and decided to double their lease, purely out of greed.

The bar sat empty for over a year before they realised their mistake and reduced the lease price back to the original figure. Now, as IMNH describes, some other sucker is taking on that place. How long before the landlord gets greedy again?

The failure of businesses here is not always due to stupid, drunk expats.

Most of all though, the reason so many bars and other businesses are failing now is because tourist numbers have been steadily declining since 2005. People are going back to Phuket in record numbers. There are still no direct flights to Samui from any Western country. As long as that remains true the situation won't improve.

Anyone who bought the lease on the bar who done it properly would have done it through a proper lawyer and made sure the lease was at a fixed price for a set time. If the lease expired then the land lord can do what he or she wants. Normally from experience. If i like the tenants i would keep the rent the same as steady income and peacefull tenants. If they make me a problem i up the price to f them off.

Also if i believe i can genorate more income due to the location changing then yes o f coarse i would up the rent as i would not be a charity i am a business and want to make money. On the other hand the risk is that if the owner has not thought his or her master plan through then his or her shop might be empty for a year unless he or she has already made enough income and is not bothered

Edited August 5, 2012 by BigC

[ydraw]

Anyone who bought the lease on the bar who done it properly would have done it through a proper lawyer and made sure the lease was at a fixed price for a set time. If the lease expired then the land lord can do what he or she wants.

Thanks for this incisive commentary.

[insertmembernamehere]

It also forced the closure of Comedy Club

My understanding was that the death of the older man who owned/ran Comedy Klub was behind the closure, although money could have been a factor as well. I was not privy to this information.

By the way, "key money" is just an innocuous term for extortion.

Edited August 6, 2012 by insertmembernamehere

[carmine]

Marstons, premier league football and English food was what kept Eden Bar going as Lamai's most popular expat bar for 11 years. Then the landlord came along one day and decided to double their lease, purely out of greed.

The bar sat empty for over a year before they realised their mistake and reduced the lease price back to the original figure. Now, as IMNH describes, some other sucker is taking on that place. How long before the landlord gets greedy again?

The failure of businesses here is not always due to stupid, drunk expats.

Most of all though, the reason so many bars and other businesses are failing now is because tourist numbers have been steadily declining since 2005. People are going back to Phuket in record numbers. There are still no direct flights to Samui from any Western country. As long as that remains true the situation won't improve.

Its more a case of too many bars, simple over supply. Samui is, as far as i can see very busy at the moment. But its not enough antmore to open a bar and expect people to walk in and spend bundles. There needs to be a hook to make people decide to come to your bar as opposed to another.

i see new bars opening every other week. You take one look at most of them and know they will fail. People generally speaking just don't do their homework. Compound that with greedy landlords that think farang money grows on trees and there you have it. Samui, a graveyard for non profit making bars

[marstons]

I guess you don't consider Australia a western country then. Many of the flights from Europe into Phuket are charters. They won't be recorded on the arrivals list. OTOH 0% of the flights into Samui are charters.

The western tourist have not simply changed to Phuket beacuase of direct flights

Yes, they have.

If the reason for faliure of an expat bar was an issue with that unti why could it not have been moved to another more reasonable landlord

They did move, but since no other sufficiently sized places were available in the area, they were forced into opening 2 smaller bars in 2 different places instead of 1 large one.

I don't see why you're trying to suggest that there was some kind of other factor. The reason for the closure of Eden bar was well-known to all of their customers, which included most of the residents of Lamai from English-speaking countries.

The landlord increased their key money from 200,000 per year to 400,000 per year with no warning. They were expecting to renew their lease for 600,000 over three years, but the landlord demanded 1.2 million. That was the factor that caused the closure of the business, nothing else. It also forced the closure of Comedy Club a bit further up the road, when they increased their key money as well.

Keep in mind that these doubling of key money occurred in an environment where tourism on Samui has been steadily decreasing for at least 5 years.

After Eden Bar sitting unoccupied for a year, they reduced the key money back down to 200,000 per year and immediately had a lot of interest and found a taker. What IMNH is getting at is there's not really any reason to believe they wouldn't do it again to anyone who manages to create a successful business in that property.

No i dont its an consider Australia a western country hence i left it off, the1 from Australia (Perth) 300 people max. Edited August 6, 2012 by marstons

[ydraw]

It also forced the closure of Comedy Club

My understanding was that the death of the older man who owned/ran Comedy Klub was behind the closure, although money could have been a factor as well. I was not privy to this information.

By the way, "key money" is just an innocuous term for extortion.

Comedy Club also reopened at new premises. Tony opened La Bistro, located further down the street past Codwhoppa. Gilda started a new restaurant at her guesthouse.

[ydraw]

i see new bars opening every other week. You take one look at most of them and know they will fail.

There are plenty of successful, long-established bars on Samui. Not all of them fail. It's a pretty ridiculous generalisation to say otherwise.

And I think people miss the point that many of the smaller bars are being run basically as a hobby, because the cost of renting bar in a lot of places isn't much more than the cost of renting a room.

[carmine]

i see new bars opening every other week. You take one look at most of them and know they will fail.

There are plenty of successful, long-established bars on Samui. Not all of them fail. It's a pretty ridiculous generalisation to say otherwise.

And I think people miss the point that many of the smaller bars are being run basically as a hobby, because the cost of renting bar in a lot of places isn't much more than the cost of renting a room.

Well if you would do me the courtesy of reading my post properly you will realise that i did not say all the bars fail. Othewise feel free to carry on misquoting me if it suits your arguement

[carmine]

i see new bars opening every other week. You take one look at most of them and know they will fail.

There are plenty of successful, long-established bars on Samui. Not all of them fail. It's a pretty ridiculous generalisation to say otherwise.

And I think people miss the point that many of the smaller bars are being run basically as a hobby, because the cost of renting bar in a lot of places isn't much more than the cost of renting a room.

Just out of interest please define what you mean by "successful" bars. I would define it as "makes a small fortune and in that case there are but a handful. The rest get by