Thailand's PACC Asks For British Help In Stamping Out 'Grey Market' Car Trade

[webfact]

GREY MARKET CAR TRADE

PACC asks for British help

BANGKOK: -- The Office of the Public Sector Anti-Corruption Commission (PACC) Wednesday met with the British Embassy to ask for cooperation in checking overseas Thais in the UK wishing to bring cars back to Thailand in an attempt to tackle the "grey market" car trade issue.

PACC chief Dusadee Arayawut met British Embassy's first secretary and British Custom officials based in Hong Kong.

The authority has found that 14 out of 31 cars brought back by overseas Thais since 2008 might have been illegally brought in, said PACC chief Dusadee Arayawuth.

The "grey market" uses legal loopholes - including abusing the right of overseas Thais to bring back their cars back to Thailand and falsely declaring the car price so as to avoid full tax - to import cars then sell them at 40-60 per cent cheaper than the Thai market price.

A Bentley, currently selling for up to Bt39 million at the Motor Show, was declared at Bt1.3 million by a "grey market" gang hence was taxed at Bt3.4 million. The gang then sold it for only Bt6 million, he added.

With 60 new cars per day or about 1,200 cars per month being brought into Thailand, the avoidance of car tax could cost the Thai government at least Bt1.2 billion in lost income, he said.

-- The Nation 2012-04-04

[Thai at Heart]

14 cars imported through a legal tax break for returning thai citizens. Is this a British issue?

[jonclark]

A Bentley for 39 million - Absolutly insane price - nearly a million quid. Perhaps a reduction in import tax might also help to stamp out this trade, by lowering the profit margins of these gangs?

[bigbamboo]

Hold on......... a Bentley worth up to 39 million is sold in Thailand for just 6 million? So we are talking stolen cars here, which is clearly a British issue.

Edited April 4, 2012 by bigbamboo

[pimay11]

A Bentley, currently selling for up to Bt39 million at the Motor Show, was declared at Bt1.3 million by a "grey market" gang hence was taxed at Bt3.4 million. The gang then sold it for only Bt6 million, he added.

I wonder if it was a pink Bentley?

[Thai at Heart]

Hold on......... a Bentley worth up to 39 million is sold in Thailand for just 6 million? So we are talking stolen cars here, which is clearly a British issue.

Priced and worth are two very different things. It is more than feasible to get hold of a second hand Bentley in the UK for less than 6mn baht.

http://www.vcars.co....sed-bentley.php

For less than a brand new volvo in Thailand you get a 6 or 7 year old Bentley for the grand price of 40k, or 2mn Baht. Note the INCLUDING VAT also. Astonishing value I would reckon.

2005 Bentley Continental Gt 6.0 W12

£41,295 inc VAT

Not

Edited April 4, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[Skywalker69]

A Bentley, currently selling for up to Bt39 million at the Motor Show, was declared at Bt1.3 million by a "grey market" gang hence was taxed at Bt3.4 million. The gang then sold it for only Bt6 million, he added.

I wonder if it was a pink Bentley?

No, it must have been "black"

Edited April 4, 2012 by Skywalker69

[Javabear]

I can sort of see the import tax for vehicles that compete with the vehicles that are made here but for crying out loud lower it for vehicles that don't. Thailand is the land if shiite cars.

[nickjam]

I don't really see what this has to do with the UK govt either. Thailand imposes these ridiculous import tariffs on foreign cars and they come through the Thai customs (palms greased no doubt). Its a problem created by Thais and Thais alone. Why don't they simply check which customs agent let them in, fine him, sack him jail him or whatever, impound the car, spray it pink and give it to a politician, job sorted.

I for one would love to see a greater choice of new and classic cars on Thai roads. Its rare you see anything on the road thats a real head turner. I used to find great amusement in watching motorbikes carrying 8 toilets or sidecars loaded up with elderly relatives but having been here a while I now look upon them with a blase eye. Drop the tax, increase imports, your car manufacturing business will be largely unaffected and everything will be a bit more interesting.

I heard that Thailand was getting sued for exorbitant taxes on wines which may prompt a change, maybe its time for the worlds car manufacturers to have a punt aswell!

[bigbamboo]

Hold on......... a Bentley worth up to 39 million is sold in Thailand for just 6 million? So we are talking stolen cars here, which is clearly a British issue.

Priced and worth are two very different things. It is more than feasible to get hold of a second hand Bentley in the UK for less than 6mn baht.

http://www.vcars.co....sed-bentley.php

For less than a brand new volvo in Thailand you get a 6 or 7 year old Bentley for the grand price of 40k, or 2mn Baht. Note the INCLUDING VAT also. Astonishing value I would reckon.

2005 Bentley Continental Gt 6.0 W12

£41,295 inc VAT

Not

I agree with you re the price of second hand cars (the UK and Thai markets are poles apart there) but that was not what the original article said. I'm no expert on buying new Bentleys but 39m is way OTT.

[lifedrainer]

39 million should probably be read 3.9 million here guys.

It makes more sense to me!

Why buy a car at 39 million and sell it at 6 million ? Duh...

Edited April 4, 2012 by lifedrainer

[ginjag]

Isn't it just amazing, second hand Mazda pick-up 7 years old- 350,000 bht. New Jazz-Europe 10,000 pound here,13,000 pound. this is a total rip off country---greedy now more than ever, no wonder there is underhand methods, ok-it's stealing from the government--BUT the import tax is more than stealing from the car buyer, it must be in the blood, this greed, I bash when needed and this is a perfect example of crying on one hand and robbing with the other.

[welbymd]

Yep, 14 cars in a bit over 3 years.

They most certainly have their priorities in order. How is this a "British" issue?

I'm sure there may be a Bentley or two in the mix here, but no brands are listed, nor any specific value. Somebody is looking for a hand-out or hand-up.

[bangon04]

14 cars imported through a legal tax break for returning thai citizens. Is this a British issue?

Wow - hands up who feels sorry for the Thai government, Thai Customs and their own citizens who circumvent the punitive import tax laws.?

I am sure they will receive the utmost cooperation from the UK government - the UK is known for tis zealous enforcement of other countries' laws - they will be happy to waste UK taxpayers' money on this. Sadly true - wish it was sarcasm....

[phiphidon]

Hold on......... a Bentley worth up to 39 million is sold in Thailand for just 6 million? So we are talking stolen cars here, which is clearly a British issue.

Priced and worth are two very different things. It is more than feasible to get hold of a second hand Bentley in the UK for less than 6mn baht.

http://www.vcars.co....sed-bentley.php

For less than a brand new volvo in Thailand you get a 6 or 7 year old Bentley for the grand price of 40k, or 2mn Baht. Note the INCLUDING VAT also. Astonishing value I would reckon.

2005 Bentley Continental Gt 6.0 W12

£41,295 inc VAT

Not

I agree with you re the price of second hand cars (the UK and Thai markets are poles apart there) but that was not what the original article said. I'm no expert on buying new Bentleys but 39m is way OTT.

Apparently the UK rrp on a Bentley Continental GT W12 rhd is 136, 845 quid approx 6.6 million baht if thats any use to whats going on here?

http://www.broadspeed.com/new_cars/Bentley/Continental_GT/30294/6_0_W12_Auto_2_door

Edited April 4, 2012 by phiphidon

[bigbamboo]

Hold on......... a Bentley worth up to 39 million is sold in Thailand for just 6 million? So we are talking stolen cars here, which is clearly a British issue.

Priced and worth are two very different things. It is more than feasible to get hold of a second hand Bentley in the UK for less than 6mn baht.

http://www.vcars.co....sed-bentley.php

For less than a brand new volvo in Thailand you get a 6 or 7 year old Bentley for the grand price of 40k, or 2mn Baht. Note the INCLUDING VAT also. Astonishing value I would reckon.

2005 Bentley Continental Gt 6.0 W12

£41,295 inc VAT

Not

I agree with you re the price of second hand cars (the UK and Thai markets are poles apart there) but that was not what the original article said. I'm no expert on buying new Bentleys but 39m is way OTT.

Apparently the UK rrp on a Bentley Continental GT W12 rhd is 136, 845 quid approx 6.6 million baht if thats any use to whats going on here?

http://www.broadspee...W12_Auto_2_door

Perhaps the Thais were confusing their Bentleys with their Bugattis?

[MAJIC]

The "grey market" uses legal loopholes - including abusing the right of overseas Thais to bring back their cars back to Thailand

So how is the UK supposed to plug Thailands "legal loopholes" and the right of Thais to bring back their cars???

Is this not purely a Thai Legal Import issue???

[Unkomoncents]

If it wasn't so financially beneficial to try to take advantage of the Thai government's lax oversight standards, then nobody would do it. 39 million baht?! For a Bentley?! You can buy 39 houses in Bangkok with that kind of money. That's just ridiculous. The Thai government creates these "grey" and "black" markets and then sits there scratching its head trying to figure out how to stamp them out. Watching the legislation process in this country is hilarious. The basic modus operandi is to create a law banning/taxing a particular action, to which the government AND public responds by immediately creating series of loopholes to get around said action. Then they set about making laws to get rid of the loopholes and so more loopholes have to be opened. The process just repeats itself ad infinitum...it's so fundamentally insincere.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Unkomoncents

[MEL1]

I used to find great amusement in watching motorbikes carrying 8 toilets or sidecars loaded up with elderly relatives

Is that the new Thai Portaloo? He must have been charging per sit in, surely?

Must ask, where was the drainage pipe travelling to?

-mel.

[AngryParent]

If I can remember correctly, when the UK embassy asked the Thais to help protect British citizens with the numerous corrupt and illegal acts that Thais commit (many violent and leading to murder) against the Brits, they were politely ignored.

Why should the UK do more than politely ignor Thailand's request? It is not as if the cars are illegal in the UK and no criminal acts are commited in the UK - in fact such purchases are good for the UK economy.

Do unto others good first!!!

[dominique355]

The import tax system for cars is insane. It is nothing but an invitation to find loopholes and the outsmart the customs and excise department. I would almost say "som nam naa".

The import and excise duties on new cars helps protecting the hoplessly outdates domestic production of pick up trucks. These cars use a technology that was already outdates in the 1950, when these cars were designed.

Modern cars with an environmentally frendly technology and up-to-date safety features are so expensive that normal people have to buy these pick-up trucks which in other countries were declared unsafe to drive.

And of the more modern cars, Thailand gets only those models nobody else wants. A Mercedes-Benz E200 NGT (a crap car, assembled in Thailand) cost 3.6 million,2.5 times more than in Europe.

A MB CLS 350 CDI in Europe 2.9 million, here 8.4 Million!!! Insane!

Honda sells its CRV with a modern diesel engine in all other countries, except Thailand. Why?

So I am not surprised that more and more people look for grey imports. Neither the official importers nor the government are able to provide a good and modern choice of save, efficient, and environmentally friendly cars at a reasonable price.

Cheating at import is proof of the importers' and government's failure.

[rkidlad]

The tax rate on cars here is ridiculous. It's stealing 100%. If you want a car, you have to pay extortionate fees. If you don't wanna pay, then shut up and don't buy one? I can 100% afford a car, but I'm not paying silly money for a crappy Toyota or Honda.

My missus couldn't believe the price of second hand cars in the UK. For the price people here are paying, they should be driving much better cars. I guess the government can get away with it because people accept it and it's not as if they're exporting their own cars abroad. If they were, they'd definitely have to lower their taxes.

[Thai at Heart]

Hold on......... a Bentley worth up to 39 million is sold in Thailand for just 6 million? So we are talking stolen cars here, which is clearly a British issue.

Priced and worth are two very different things. It is more than feasible to get hold of a second hand Bentley in the UK for less than 6mn baht.

http://www.vcars.co....sed-bentley.php

For less than a brand new volvo in Thailand you get a 6 or 7 year old Bentley for the grand price of 40k, or 2mn Baht. Note the INCLUDING VAT also. Astonishing value I would reckon.

2005 Bentley Continental Gt 6.0 W12

£41,295 inc VAT

Not

I agree with you re the price of second hand cars (the UK and Thai markets are poles apart there) but that was not what the original article said. I'm no expert on buying new Bentleys but 39m is way OTT.

That is what they put it on the market for here. 6 mn to buy new in the UK, plus shipping, 7mn, 280% tax 28mn, plus vat etc, plus margin, become 39mn.

Ironically, there are very few people who knew about this loophole, so I expect that many returning Thai wives will go out and buy a big merc for 50k Eruo, ship it for 20k euro, sit on it for year and still be way below the sale price in Thailand. As though 14 cars imported is going to break the country. Would love to know if all of these so called "legit" companies paid all their taxes last year.

[AngryParent]

The authority has found that 14 out of 31 cars brought back by overseas Thais since 2008 might have been illegally brought in, said PACC chief Dusadee Arayawuth.

Let me get this straight, 14 cars in 4 years!!! Can't the Thais stop 14 cars themselves? They seem good at fleecing the farangs with any customs duty and they are great at catching anything that will make them even 100 Baht.

Seems like a rubbish "news" story to either make the Thais look good or the farangs as evil and bad (our police and customs failure).

TV please check your NEWS.

Edited April 4, 2012 by AngryParent

[Thai at Heart]

If I can remember correctly, when the UK embassy asked the Thais to help protect British citizens with the numerous corrupt and illegal acts that Thais commit (many violent and leading to murder) against the Brits, they were politely ignored.

Why should the UK do more than politely ignor Thailand's request? It is not as if the cars are illegal in the UK and no criminal acts are commited in the UK - in fact such purchases are good for the UK economy.

Do unto others good first!!!

What any private importer does from the UK, is of absolutely no business of the UK authorities. The issue is with the Thai customs and the loophole that allows returning Thai residents to import a car. Ironically, do it once a year and you can probably fund an entire overseas education for your kids with a loophole like this.

[pipo1000]

A Bentley, currently selling for up to Bt39 million at the Motor Show, was declared at Bt1.3 million by a "grey market" gang hence was taxed at Bt3.4 million. The gang then sold it for only Bt6 million, he added.

I have such a feeling that the " grey market gang " was actually employed as customs officers,since as far as I'm concerned it is always the customs department that puts the taxable value on each import, not the importer.

I would also have a hard time to believe that the customs officers really had no idea that a Bentley had more value than a Camry.

Edited April 4, 2012 by pipo1000

[MEL1]

The "grey market" uses legal loopholes - including abusing the right of overseas Thais to bring back their cars back to Thailand

So how is the UK supposed to plug Thailands "legal loopholes" and the right of Thais to bring back their cars???

Is this not purely a Thai Legal Import issue???

If it isn't, then I want to import my cars from the UK for the same tax rate as Thais will bring them into Thailand. The Thai govn't wants UK Govn't to help Thais into UK with easy Visas....... how about a bit of thought the other way. Then again, bi-lateral thought from Thai Minsisters is impossible.

-mel.

[Thai at Heart]

If you are Thai, go and live overseas for the requisite time, then mothball the car here for the requisite time and its all legal.

The "grey market" uses legal loopholes - including abusing the right of overseas Thais to bring back their cars back to Thailand

So how is the UK supposed to plug Thailands "legal loopholes" and the right of Thais to bring back their cars???

Is this not purely a Thai Legal Import issue???

If it isn't, then I want to import my cars from the UK for the same tax rate as Thais will bring them into Thailand. The Thai govn't wants UK Govn't to help Thais into UK with easy Visas....... how about a bit of thought the other way. Then again, bi-lateral thought from Thai Minsisters is impossible.

-mel.

[letitbe]

who cares when billions of black market mafia money is poured into Thailand every year by western gangs. Who do you think is building and buying all those fancy condos and houses.

[MAJIC]

The "grey market" uses legal loopholes - including abusing the right of overseas Thais to bring back their cars back to Thailand

So how is the UK supposed to plug Thailands "legal loopholes" and the right of Thais to bring back their cars???

Is this not purely a Thai Legal Import issue???

If it isn't, then I want to import my cars from the UK for the same tax rate as Thais will bring them into Thailand. The Thai govn't wants UK Govn't to help Thais into UK with easy Visas....... how about a bit of thought the other way. Then again, bi-lateral thought from Thai Minsisters is impossible.

-mel.

It's never been give and take,I can't see it ever changing either.

Unless I misunderstand this article,Thailand is bellyaching because their own returning people are taking advantage of their own import laws to get a cheaper imported Car.

Of course this means some money has to be spent in the UK,and that would never do,would it? that's why they are crying FOUL!