Lowering Cholesterol

[Galong]

General practitioner doctors get next to NO nutrition information in their studies. It's all about giving people medicine. That's where they make their money. When money is involved, I lose trust.

While I actually agree with your argument, the above is quite untrue.

General Practitioners do not "make their money" by giving people medicine. I have no idea what you mean by this!

I mean they are taught to give medicine to patients instead of perhaps finding a nutritional approach or uncovering the true cause of the disease/problem. It's pretty obvious that there is money in keeping people from being truly healed.

I have a rare lung disease. I have been on hardcore meds for over 30 years. I decided to research alternatives. As this impacts my immune system (calcified lymph glands around my lungs), I decided to research natural supplements that produce a stronger immune system. Coupled with an intense exercise regime, I've recently been taken completely off of the most harsh of my drugs and the second worst one has been reduced!!!

I don't have to worry now about how the medicine is killing my liver as I'm off of it.

My very valid point is that general practitioners don't receive nutritional training and they're taught in school to treat illnesses with medicine. That is their answer to everything.

Lastly, if you don't think they make money off of medicine, explain why the drug companies lobby them so much, please. There is corruption in the medical profession. I recommend doing some of your own research when you get sick. That is the best way to do more than hide the symptoms. Cholestrol medicine doesn't cure you. You're on it forever. Why is that?

[partington]

General practitioner doctors get next to NO nutrition information in their studies. It's all about giving people medicine. That's where they make their money. When money is involved, I lose trust.

While I actually agree with your argument, the above is quite untrue.

General Practitioners do not "make their money" by giving people medicine. I have no idea what you mean by this!

I mean they are taught to give medicine to patients instead of perhaps finding a nutritional approach or uncovering the true cause of the disease/problem. It's pretty obvious that there is money in keeping people from being truly healed.

I have a rare lung disease. I have been on hardcore meds for over 30 years. I decided to research alternatives. As this impacts my immune system (calcified lymph glands around my lungs), I decided to research natural supplements that produce a stronger immune system. Coupled with an intense exercise regime, I've recently been taken completely off of the most harsh of my drugs and the second worst one has been reduced!!!

I don't have to worry now about how the medicine is killing my liver as I'm off of it.

My very valid point is that general practitioners don't receive nutritional training and they're taught in school to treat illnesses with medicine. That is their answer to everything.

Lastly, if you don't think they make money off of medicine, explain why the drug companies lobby them so much, please. There is corruption in the medical profession. I recommend doing some of your own research when you get sick. That is the best way to do more than hide the symptoms. Cholestrol medicine doesn't cure you. You're on it forever. Why is that?

Look, without getting into a big argument on this:

1.General practitioners cannot "find a nutritional approach or uncover the true cause of the illness". They have neither the time nor the training to do this. Research has to be done by researchers.

2. General practitioners do not have a vested interest in preventing people from being healed. This does not make sense. If you are a conspiracy theory advocate, and you have every right to be ( I am not), it only makes sense for drug companies to do this.

I do not believe drug companies deliberately try to find treatments that do not permanently cure serious diseases in order to ensure a sustainable income for themselves. I believe that this is so difficult to do that for most diseases it is completely beyond the technical capability of present science. All they know how to do is find a drug that hopefully helps in some way, and whose side effects are not so bad that they outweigh the advantages.

This itself is so difficult that in some years the number of new drugs approved by the FDA barely reaches double figures.

3. Unfortunately most so called nutritional cures researched on the internet are rife with anecdotal evidence (stories of single events with no statistical analysis, measurement of placebo effect and so on) and sheer wishful thinking, and sometimes outright deception. While there are undoubtedly diamonds in the crap, its mostly crap. These results are not held to any sort of rigorous scientific standards or testing to prove they are true (unlike drugs approved by the FDA which go through more than 10 years of testing and analysis to prove they work).

While I don't doubt your experience at all, it is unfortunately not evidence. A test on a group of 40 people with your disease, half on the nutritional supplement half not, with neither the patients nor the doctors knowing until after the analysis who was getting the real supplement and who the fake, would be closer to proof.

Drug companies are forced to do tests like this on larger and larger groups for years on end to have a chance of getting their treatments accepted. People who write random websites are not.

I trust this procedure and would not bother taking anything that hadn't been through it - but that is just me.

Everyone is free to do what they like.

Edited June 21, 2012 by partington

[cheeryble]

Galong, Partington's saying a small n gives you a large p.

I agree with him (and who needs too much p at our age?)

Cheeryble

[xylophone]

Hello all......just got back on to this as I started it, and have a puzzling conundrum.

After posting here and after my last cholesterol test I undertook some of the suggestions offered on here (many thanks) as well as doing some research.......... more exercise, Benecol, "Pro-activ" margarine, halving my intake of sugar, taking Beta Glucan supplements and so on.

I also had a CAT scan done to detect any deposits in the heart arteries. The scan is supposed to detect deposits of calcium as well as ANY deposits laid down. I also had a heart stress test carried out as I was due to get my cholesterol retested.

Now here is the strange part:- the CAT scan showed absolutely no deposits in the main arteries and the heart stress test suggested I had the artery elasticity of a 50 yr old (I am 65) BUT the new cholesterol tests showed my overall readings to be about the same as before..........very high LDL and Triglycerides.

Now I have had high cholesterol for 15 yrs, yet apparently my arteries are clear??

For me this seems to lend weight to some reports that I have seen which point to the fact that calcium plays a major role in artery disease with cholesterol coming along after to coat the calcium and cause a blockage?? Well that's as I read the reports as I am not a doctor.

So I suppose I could start on statin drugs but why, when I've had high cholesterol for at least 15 yrs, perhaps a lot longer, and still have "clear" arteries??

Comments/suggestions welcomed.

[Valentine]

Hello all......just got back on to this as I started it, and have a puzzling conundrum.

After posting here and after my last cholesterol test I undertook some of the suggestions offered on here (many thanks) as well as doing some research.......... more exercise, Benecol, "Pro-activ" margarine, halving my intake of sugar, taking Beta Glucan supplements and so on.

I also had a CAT scan done to detect any deposits in the heart arteries. The scan is supposed to detect deposits of calcium as well as ANY deposits laid down. I also had a heart stress test carried out as I was due to get my cholesterol retested.

Now here is the strange part:- the CAT scan showed absolutely no deposits in the main arteries and the heart stress test suggested I had the artery elasticity of a 50 yr old (I am 65) BUT the new cholesterol tests showed my overall readings to be about the same as before..........very high LDL and Triglycerides.

Now I have had high cholesterol for 15 yrs, yet apparently my arteries are clear??

For me this seems to lend weight to some reports that I have seen which point to the fact that calcium plays a major role in artery disease with cholesterol coming along after to coat the calcium and cause a blockage?? Well that's as I read the reports as I am not a doctor.

So I suppose I could start on statin drugs but why, when I've had high cholesterol for at least 15 yrs, perhaps a lot longer, and still have "clear" arteries??

Comments/suggestions welcomed.

Strange results but also perhaps not enough time for the changes to take effect. Upon reflection when I reduced my cholesterol with Benecol I was also taking coconut oil.

[Orac]

Hello all......just got back on to this as I started it, and have a puzzling conundrum.

After posting here and after my last cholesterol test I undertook some of the suggestions offered on here (many thanks) as well as doing some research.......... more exercise, Benecol, "Pro-activ" margarine, halving my intake of sugar, taking Beta Glucan supplements and so on.

I also had a CAT scan done to detect any deposits in the heart arteries. The scan is supposed to detect deposits of calcium as well as ANY deposits laid down. I also had a heart stress test carried out as I was due to get my cholesterol retested.

Now here is the strange part:- the CAT scan showed absolutely no deposits in the main arteries and the heart stress test suggested I had the artery elasticity of a 50 yr old (I am 65) BUT the new cholesterol tests showed my overall readings to be about the same as before..........very high LDL and Triglycerides.

Now I have had high cholesterol for 15 yrs, yet apparently my arteries are clear??

For me this seems to lend weight to some reports that I have seen which point to the fact that calcium plays a major role in artery disease with cholesterol coming along after to coat the calcium and cause a blockage?? Well that's as I read the reports as I am not a doctor.

So I suppose I could start on statin drugs but why, when I've had high cholesterol for at least 15 yrs, perhaps a lot longer, and still have "clear" arteries??

Comments/suggestions welcomed.

Strange results but also perhaps not enough time for the changes to take effect. Upon reflection when I reduced my cholesterol with Benecol I was also taking coconut oil.

Have you had an ultrasound done of your abdomen. I had some tests done a year ago including the exercising stress test which was fine but the ultrasound showed an extremely fatty liver. Lipid profile showed up total cholesterol at 394 and triglycerides at 641. Have them back under control now at 122 and 181 but it has taken a lot of changes diet, exercise and statins.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Orac

[partington]

Hello all......just got back on to this as I started it, and have a puzzling conundrum.

After posting here and after my last cholesterol test I undertook some of the suggestions offered on here (many thanks) as well as doing some research.......... more exercise, Benecol, "Pro-activ" margarine, halving my intake of sugar, taking Beta Glucan supplements and so on.

I also had a CAT scan done to detect any deposits in the heart arteries. The scan is supposed to detect deposits of calcium as well as ANY deposits laid down. I also had a heart stress test carried out as I was due to get my cholesterol retested.

Now here is the strange part:- the CAT scan showed absolutely no deposits in the main arteries and the heart stress test suggested I had the artery elasticity of a 50 yr old (I am 65) BUT the new cholesterol tests showed my overall readings to be about the same as before..........very high LDL and Triglycerides.

Now I have had high cholesterol for 15 yrs, yet apparently my arteries are clear??

For me this seems to lend weight to some reports that I have seen which point to the fact that calcium plays a major role in artery disease with cholesterol coming along after to coat the calcium and cause a blockage?? Well that's as I read the reports as I am not a doctor.

So I suppose I could start on statin drugs but why, when I've had high cholesterol for at least 15 yrs, perhaps a lot longer, and still have "clear" arteries??

Comments/suggestions welcomed.

Just a quick comment about the life style changes:

even the best responders to diet changes only reduce their LDL by 10-15%. If you are not a particularly good responder it can be a lot less than that...people vary in their responses. The benecol and the diet together work by the same mechanism so 10-15% is still the maximum. Exercise doesn't reduce LDL. It may take some time to see changes too, but you may be unlucky and get less than 10% reduction. It happens.

About high cholesterol and the effects on heart disease:

When LDL cholesterol and triglycerides are high this increases your risk of getting heart disease - it doesn't guarantee it!

Standing in a thunderstorm holding up a golf club increases your risk of being struck by lightning - it doesn't guarantee it!

You have to apply normal common sense thinking to these things-disease risk is no different to any other life risk.

There are of course reasons why not everyone with high LDL cholesterol gets heart disease: some are known (eg high HDL or good cholesterol, levels can protect you); some have yet to be discovered; and some will probably never be known.

What a higher risk means is that if you took a group of 100 people with low cholesterol, and a group of 100 people with high cholesterol and followed them through life and counted how many got premature heart disease or died of a heart attack, you would see that the chance, or probability, of people in the high cholesterol group getting a heart attack is higher.

It might be say 5 times higher. This could mean that 5 out of the low cholesterol group died, and 25 out of the high cholesterol group died (making these figures up to use as an example).

It would never mean that 100% of the high cholesterol group died (of a premature heart attack I mean) - life doesnt really work like that. You are still talking about probabilities, like roulette....

Edited July 10, 2012 by partington

[xylophone]

Thank you to Partington for his response because it does put things into perspective for me and allows a better understanding from my simplistic viewpoint.

Also thank you to the others who have made suggestions, many of which I have taken on board and they would include daily use of Benecol, Beta Glucan capsules, fish oil capsules, coconut oil and Pro-activ margarine to name a few.

I do have a moderately fatty liver, but probably put that down to the daily bottle of red wine for most of my adult life!!!

The only thing that did work one time was Policosanol capsules from a company in Brisbane and that really did reduce my levels by some 25%, without any dietary changes whatsoever. Obviously I ordered more after the three-month trial and the amazement of my doctor, however sadly the company had stopped manufacturing these because it could not obtain the high-quality raw material that it needed, stating that there were many others on the marketplace and they were dubious about the quality of them. However I went ahead and ordered some from one company, plus something called Vavascor which is quite freely marketed, however none of these had the same effect as the original!!

Not much I can do apart from going on to statins if indeed I need to?? Or I could be one of the lucky ones who goes through life with high cholesterol, and suffer no ill effects whatsoever?

[SurinBeach]

Hi Gents,

Read with interest this thread as had a check-up in Bangkok Hospital (Phuket) and readings of

Total Cholesterol 228

HDL 45

LDL 155

Which I think were similar to my only ever check-up of 3 years ago, I'm 51 BTW and Just FYI BMI of 26.73 so "Overweight" !

Just wondering why you're taking Coconut Oil Daily and where you but your "stuff"

Also thank you to the others who have made suggestions, many of which I have taken on board and they would include daily use of Benecol, Beta Glucan capsules, fish oil capsules, coconut oil and Pro-activ margarine to name a few.

Cheers

Ps Funny thing with BMI is a couple of years back I trained Muay Thai 6 days a week for 3 months, during that period I remained at 82Kgs all the time by losing fat and gaining muscle (a little).....so eventhough I was in the best shape of my life I was still technically BMI-Overweight !

Thank you to Partington for his response because it does put things into perspective for me and allows a better understanding from my simplistic viewpoint.

Also thank you to the others who have made suggestions, many of which I have taken on board and they would include daily use of Benecol, Beta Glucan capsules, fish oil capsules, coconut oil and Pro-activ margarine to name a few.

I do have a moderately fatty liver, but probably put that down to the daily bottle of red wine for most of my adult life!!!

The only thing that did work one time was Policosanol capsules from a company in Brisbane and that really did reduce my levels by some 25%, without any dietary changes whatsoever. Obviously I ordered more after the three-month trial and the amazement of my doctor, however sadly the company had stopped manufacturing these because it could not obtain the high-quality raw material that it needed, stating that there were many others on the marketplace and they were dubious about the quality of them. However I went ahead and ordered some from one company, plus something called Vavascor which is quite freely marketed, however none of these had the same effect as the original!!

Not much I can do apart from going on to statins if indeed I need to?? Or I could be one of the lucky ones who goes through life with high cholesterol, and suffer no ill effects whatsoever?

[stevehaigh]

Eat healthily, exercise, die anyway.

Might as well do what we enjoy during our short time here.

If anything we do does shorten our life, at least it comes off the right end.

Too many different ways to die to worry about just one way of expiring.

interesting alternate point of view i guess. but its not just about when you die as how you live on the way there. i've started drinking less, excising more and i feel a lot better for it. but each to their own.

one poster said something about eating a full English breakfast once every couple of weeks. i make my English breakfast with turkey bacon (better than the real ting), eggs fired in a dash of olive oil, and these days villa has a nice big pack of button mushrooms for 99 baht most days. there's also some really tasty veggy sausages in villa (morning star brand, in the freezer) but they are expensive.

[xylophone]

Hi Gents,

Read with interest this thread as had a check-up in Bangkok Hospital (Phuket) and readings of

Total Cholesterol 228

HDL 45

LDL 155

Which I think were similar to my only ever check-up of 3 years ago, I'm 51 BTW and Just FYI BMI of 26.73 so "Overweight" !

Just wondering why you're taking Coconut Oil Daily and where you but your "stuff"

Also thank you to the others who have made suggestions, many of which I have taken on board and they would include daily use of Benecol, Beta Glucan capsules, fish oil capsules, coconut oil and Pro-activ margarine to name a few.

Cheers

Ps Funny thing with BMI is a couple of years back I trained Muay Thai 6 days a week for 3 months, during that period I remained at 82Kgs all the time by losing fat and gaining muscle (a little).....so eventhough I was in the best shape of my life I was still technically BMI-Overweight !

Good day SurinBeach,

Your cholesterol levels look very much like mine and mine have been like that for some 15 years now. As you can see by my posts I became worried about this and looked into what I could take to bring the levels down, and as I mentioned the only thing that did it successfully was Policosanol tablets from a company in Brisbane, no longer available.

I do take the occasional small bottle of Benecol, and some vitamin tablets aimed specifically at cholesterol, however I have given up looking for the Pro-activ margarine, because I really don't like taking the stuff AND I recently viewed the two short programs on cholesterol (links provided below) which have changed my view on cholesterol levels somewhat.

Watch and see what you think........

http://youtu.be/FTkyS5yV82Q and http://youtu.be/F0kIC-dbW2g

[SurinBeach]

Thanks for the tips ....

Blimey !

I 'd never even heard of statins til a couple of days ago.....

Wasnt able to view 1st Video but ....

Think I'll stick with the Dr's recommendation at the end of the 2nd Video, Mediterranean Diet and Exercise !.....

Cheers

SB

I do take the occasional small bottle of Benecol, and some vitamin tablets aimed specifically at cholesterol, however I have given up looking for the Pro-activ margarine, because I really don't like taking the stuff AND I recently viewed the two short programs on cholesterol (links provided below) which have changed my view on cholesterol levels somewhat.

Watch and see what you think........

http://youtu.be/FTkyS5yV82Q and http://youtu.be/F0kIC-dbW2g

[NamKangMan]

I don't take it, but I believe Lipitor is quite popular for lowering cholesterol, but there's probably no substitute for a healthy diet and some exercise.

Edited December 24, 2013 by NamKangMan

[xylophone]

Thanks for the tips ....

Blimey !

I 'd never even heard of statins til a couple of days ago.....

Wasnt able to view 1st Video but ....

Think I'll stick with the Dr's recommendation at the end of the 2nd Video, Mediterranean Diet and Exercise !.....

Cheers

SB

I do take the occasional small bottle of Benecol, and some vitamin tablets aimed specifically at cholesterol, however I have given up looking for the Pro-activ margarine, because I really don't like taking the stuff AND I recently viewed the two short programs on cholesterol (links provided below) which have changed my view on cholesterol levels somewhat.

Watch and see what you think........

http://youtu.be/FTkyS5yV82Q and http://youtu.be/F0kIC-dbW2g

Sorry that the first video was not available to you, however you may be able to find it somewhere on the Internet (perhaps one of the many sites where you can download stuff) and it is called, "The heart of the matter" and it was broadcast on the Australian ABC network.

As for coconut oil, there have been many recent articles on it, and they would be worthwhile reading as it is not the villain it was once thought to be!!

Edited December 24, 2013 by xylophone

[SurinBeach]

Got it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDVf-00w5gk

Sorry that the first video was not available to you, however you may be able to find it somewhere on the Internet (perhaps one of the many sites where you can download stuff) and it is called, "The heart of the matter" and it was broadcast on the Australian ABC network.

[JetsetBkk]

Doesn't anybody go to a doctor any more?

[hansgruber]

Doesn't anybody go to a doctor any more?

Why? I can diagnose myself with a click on google. Web md. Edited December 25, 2013 by LivinginKata
troll remark removed

[NamKangMan]

Doesn't anybody go to a doctor any more?

Why? I can diagnose myself with a click on google. Web md.

I would trust a google diagnosis more than a Thai Doctor's diagnosis.

The first part of a diagnosis by a Thai Doctor is, "Are you insured?" Then he comes up with a diagnosis based on your answer to that question.

[JetsetBkk]

Doesn't anybody go to a doctor any more?

Why? I can diagnose myself with a click on google. Web md.

I would trust a google diagnosis more than a Thai Doctor's diagnosis.

The first part of a diagnosis by a Thai Doctor is, "Are you insured?" Then he comes up with a diagnosis based on your answer to that question.

Blimey! And I thought I was cynical.