Thai Cabinet Approves Ban On Imports Of Used Vehicles

[PoodMaiDai]

Whew. At least Thailand won't become the hub of 2nd hand cars. Was getting worried about that.

[kiwikeith]

Does this mean you cant take a car back to thailand ??, I heard if a Thai citizen working overseas is made redundant they can take their car back to thailand duty free??? anyone know of this rule.

[Lancashirelad]

Does this mean you cant take a car back to thailand ??, I heard if a Thai citizen working overseas is made redundant they can take their car back to thailand duty free??? anyone know of this rule.

Being made redundant has no bearing on it. If a Thai has been working/living/studying overseas for a minimum period of time, then yes they can, providing they have owned the car for a minimum amount of time. Recently this priveledge has been being abused by wealthy Thais and/or car importers using students to import high end cars tax free. This has been in the news on Thaivisa quite recently.

[FarangTalk]

Meanwhile Thai officials continue to smuggle black market second hand cars in the thousands across the border to Burma.

[FarangTalk]

I was looking through the Thailand Customs and Excise import duty website the other day. If anyone is interested, you can import a tank, ambulance or fire engine at 0% import duty. A helicopter rushes you 5% import duty. Not that many of us will be importing these types of vehicles,

It is not legal to privately own a helicopter or plane in Thailand.

[jackr]

Old clapped out junk that you could easy buy for $500-$1000 in USA, Australia or Europe you have to pay $6000+ in Thailand.

This is pretty obiously it's call supply and demend.

In the 'west' you have generally weathier people, who have been told time and time again the new is better and they can afford it, so they buy new often, this leaves plenty of second hand cars in a devaluted market place for them.

In Thailand you have alot of people on very very very basic wages, they still need cars, most people can afford to purchase new ones, or even near new, they have to WAIT until it's been handed down 4-5 times before they can get move up from a motorbike.

So, Supply of Second hard cars is scarse (relavity) plus Demand for Second hard cards is high (relavity)... PUSHING up the prices!

I always thought it more likely the natives just don't like to give things away... ie, they're tightwads.

[thaihome]

I was looking through the Thailand Customs and Excise import duty website the other day. If anyone is interested, you can import a tank, ambulance or fire engine at 0% import duty. A helicopter rushes you 5% import duty. Not that many of us will be importing these types of vehicles,

It is not legal to privately own a helicopter or plane in Thailand.

Untrue. People have owned private aircraft in Thailand for 30 years or more. The problem was getting clearence to fly cross country. Those rules have been relaxed in the last 10 years and general aviation is a growing industry.

THAI FLYING CLUB

TH

[louse1953]

Old clapped out junk that you could easy buy for $500-$1000 in USA, Australia or Europe you have to pay $6000+ in Thailand.

This is pretty obiously it's call supply and demend.

In the 'west' you have generally weathier people, who have been told time and time again the new is better and they can afford it, so they buy new often, this leaves plenty of second hand cars in a devaluted market place for them.

In Thailand you have alot of people on very very very basic wages, they still need cars, most people can afford to purchase new ones, or even near new, they have to WAIT until it's been handed down 4-5 times before they can get move up from a motorbike.

So, Supply of Second hard cars is scarse (relavity) plus Demand for Second hard cards is high (relavity)... PUSHING up the prices!

If you look at the second hard market overall in Thailand is much higher for most products than the west.

Please excuse my bad spelling.

Most Thais have access to easy credit,their car is worth more than their house.

[robsamui]

Old clapped out junk that you could easy buy for $500-$1000 in USA, Australia or Europe you have to pay $6000+ in Thailand.

This is pretty obiously it's call supply and demend.

In the 'west' you have generally weathier people, who have been told time and time again the new is better and they can afford it, so they buy new often, this leaves plenty of second hand cars in a devaluted market place for them.

In Thailand you have alot of people on very very very basic wages, they still need cars, most people can afford to purchase new ones, or even near new, they have to WAIT until it's been handed down 4-5 times before they can get move up from a motorbike.

So, Supply of Second hard cars is scarse (relavity) plus Demand for Second hard cards is high (relavity)... PUSHING up the prices!

If you look at the second hard market overall in Thailand is much higher for most products than the west.

Please excuse my bad spelling.

Sorry but I disagree. Most second hand car prices are high , not because of supply or demand, but because sellers think their car is still worth the same price they paid for it three years ago, in to days market. Put simply the seller wants to sell it today for roughly the same price he / she paid for it. The concept of depreciation has yet to visit these shores.

You are both missing the point.

This is basic Thai thinking ("it's still worth what I paid for it") and it applies to everything; computers, phones, washing machines, the lot. But then, with vehicles, there are other reasons.

I've just spent 70,000 baht renovating a car that in the UK I would have to pay people to take away and scrap. I could buy exactly the same car in England for 10 or 15 thousand baht. But then I'd need to pay hundreds of pounds to get it through the road test and pay huge fees to test and re-test and also labour charges of 2,000 baht per hour. That same junkyard Suzuki here sells for over 100,000 baht and without all that money needing to be spent on it to keep it on the road.

If all the vehicles on the Thai roads were subject to the same stringent road tests as Europe or Japan then used car values would plummet. But as long as you can keep them legally taxed/tested and running at the cost of pennies every year - due to a lax and superficial check for roadworthiness - then of course they'll hold their value.

And that's the other reason why imported vehicles are taxed so highly. If there was a low tax on imports then all the nice shiny junked rejects that HK, Mayaysia and Singapore are throwing away because they failed their road tests would come flooding into Thailand . . . just like all the motorbikes are doing at the moment.

Motorbikes and parts are smaller and easier to move around than cars. And if you look at the adverts for 400-1200 cc motorbikes in the Thai-language websites they are crammed with imports that haven't been registered in Thailand - every klong-dweller seems to be bringing them in. You can hardly find a legit bike with a green book any more.

This importation of bikes seems to be way out of control - hence, I would guess, the govt's panic blanket-ruling regarding banning all imports.

Undoubtedly this ruling will be soon amended - it won't take long for the govt ministers to realise they cant now get the parts from Germany for their Mercedes . . .

R

[SantiSuk]

This sets a very dangerous precedent for Thailand. I wonder what the Thai elite would think if the EU decided to ban the import of Thai rice in order to support a fledgling rice growing industry in EU countries.

[robsamui]

Don't you just love the statement in the original quote where it states about the concern caused by these imports on the grounds of 'Public safety'. Jexxxx's they haven't got a <Snip!> clue about this to start with.

Never mind the 7+ seater vehicles, what about controlling the lunatics that drive them,or maybe asking(insisting) the police stop people riding on the top of 15 foot loads on pickups - fat chance. The usual half baked ideas, designed to keep the masses happy whilst watching their endless 'soaps' and spending countless hours on their mobile phones - usually whilst driving - surely not I hear you cry!!!

Ahem . . . remember where you are! Thailand!

There is a special term for this - when an emerging nation gets to the point when they superficially appear to resemble a proper nation. Thai folks have electricity and running water, TV sets, mobile phones, cars and motorbikes and there are cities here that appear to be just like real cities, too. Until it rains and the floods come and the power goes out.

What are termed 'first world' nations have spent thousands of years emerging slowly to their current level. Their society is based on a foundation of government that has evolved to be just and fair (more or less), their old people and children are cared for by the state, education is of prime importance, personal freedom and self-expression is encouraged, economic development is via interaction and co-operation with other nations, they are competitive in the world arena, and are moderated and influenced by their interaction with other similar nations . . . etc etc etc

So when you dump all those TV sets and mobile phones onto a peasant nation that is barely literate and knows nothing of the world outside, what do you expect to get?

(Not counting the top 5% of course, who are happy to make the decisions for the other 65 million and who send their children away for a first-world education - and who are more than happy to keep things like they are. . .)

R

Edited April 19, 2012 by robsamui

[moskito]

especially motorcycles with large engine sizes, were being used for street racing.

yeah, right..... there are races goin on always on Rawai Road to Chalong Circle....lots of Kids 14-18 on 100 110 and 125ccm tuned

motobikes, without ANY LIGHTS or proper safetytools like blinkers or brakes.... Chalong Police is too busy charging ppl wich forgot

driving licenses or having no helmet close to the Police station where it is SAFE... Ask every Thai around, they just to coward to go

out at night to stop this young lads...... but SURE, it must be the Farang and his 500ccm Bike making the streets of Thailand dangerous

[EvilDrSomkid]

http://thainews.prd....id=255504180005

BANGKOK, 18 April 2012 (NNT) – The Cabinet has agreed to ban the import of used car parts for the production of new vehicles in Thailand

Oh crap. Forgive me for being obtuse, but can I still change the engine of my car with an imported 2nd hand engine?

I am not selling it as new.

I have a plan to swap in an Audi 1.8T motor with manual gearbox in my Audi 80 beater.

Was told a half cut with all I need goes for 90k. These are very rare in Thailand, but I guess a half cut from Japan would be easier.

All those guys wanting the 1UZ engine can forget about it now.

[sparebox2]

Most (not all) of the illegal BIG bikes are own by Farangs.

Many in Pattaya area.

[kartman]

Don't worry theres some tasty geezers(no not that type ), no wait a minute an army of them assembling now in Bang Na when they march and arrive at the Parliment building the Ministers will realise their not dealing with some nancy Japanese executive and see the error of their ways leading to a complete rethink and dilution of the origional idea.

Edited April 19, 2012 by kartman

[Tanaka]

i see no reason to worry if you have a desire for a foreign car, Johnny Cash has the answer for you, see below.

Hmmmm, l don't recommend his ''body man''.

Maybe he was Thai.

[Pseudolus]

If ALL foreigners would leave this country where you get screwed cheated and robbed my every government department that sees a chance the country would be in big problems loosing a lot of money but they know we are a big community but they also know we don't want to give up our lives here. Would actually be great to see everyone moving to a better country close to here and there are better countries. I for sure am looking at possibilities being screwed so many times but one foreigner moving does not impress and most foreigners simply just like talking and complaining here in this forum and not move ...................

Perhaps letting Taksin return without any penalty will help the Taksin haters move

Myanmar.

[Johpa]

Meanwhile Thai officials continue to smuggle black market second hand cars in the thousands across the border to Burma.

And there use to be a booming business of illegally exporting cars into China. And now that Mandalay has become a defacto Chinese dominated business town a la Bangkok who knows where the cars will go to next. But now that the Thai domestic market for a used luxury car has grown beyond a small niche market (please, no real Hi-So would have ever considered purchasing a used luxury car) as well as the domestic market for larger motorcycles (look at the success of the Versys) the few familes that have the monoply rights to vehicle sales are simply taking out the existing grey market that they once tolerated as they begin to invest in these formerly niche markets. I doubt many ex-pats will notice any changes and I doubt there will be much impact upon the middle class Thais who already pay outlandish prices for used vehicles. And there will certainly be no impact upon the politicians and others of influence who will continue to smuggle and tranship used vehicles into neighboring countries.

[moskito]

If ALL foreigners would leave this country where you get screwed cheated and robbed my every government department that sees a chance the country would be in big problems loosing a lot of money but they know we are a big community but they also know we don't want to give up our lives here. Would actually be great to see everyone moving to a better country close to here and there are better countries. I for sure am looking at possibilities being screwed so many times but one foreigner moving does not impress and most foreigners simply just like talking and complaining here in this forum and not move ...................

Perhaps letting Taksin return without any penalty will help the Taksin haters move

Myanmar.

Myanmar it is .... many ppl I know are more then ready to go.... Better educated ppl, friendly like 20 years ago in Thailand, honest....and the beaches are a thousand times more beautiful like here.... Last ppl switch of lights in Thailand please

[cowslip]

I'm sure all this will have to stop if the ASEAN thing gets going........ you can't have individual states using protectionism in a common market.

Let's hope some other countries point out how stupid the Thais are looking here. In the longer term they are just building up a heap of problems for when the ASEAN borders start coming down.

Edited April 19, 2012 by cowslip

[Unkomoncents]

I'm sure all this will have to stop if the ASEAN thing gets going........ you can't have individual states using protectionism in a common market.

Let's hope some other countries point out how stupid the Thais are looking here. In the longer term they are just building up a heap of problems for when the ASEAN borders start coming down.

They won't hear it. They won't change a thing. ASEAN prides itself on non-interference. Thailand has resisted free-trade among its neighbors many, many times (see beer tariffs about around ten years ago...Tiger beer, etc); it will simply amend its rules so that Thais are not left vulnerable. The voices of xenophobia are really powerful too, and Singaporeans haven't felt it yet, because the West has been taking all the flak. All that will happen is that Thailand will grow more and more isolated in the region, both politically and economically, as they will almost certainly violate the rules of the ASEAN economic community. It's likely that Thailand will become competitive with Cambodia, Laos, the Philippines and Burma (they could lose out big-time over the next couple of decades here, depending on local will for reform in Burma). The country's time wrestling with Singapore, Malaysia, and soon, Indonesia, is over. Even if the amount of investment and reorganization masks it for years, Thailand has no chance of beating these other countries over the long-term. The Japanese barely decided to stay after the last floods. What happens next time? What happens when Thailand's greatest and most inevitable political revolution begins (you know what I mean, and if you don't, you know nothing of Thailand's economic/political vulnerabilities)? The prominence of these countries, and even the Philippines, has been marked in the last couple of decades of ASEAN rule. In a couple of decades, Thailand could well be returned to SE Asian backwater status. Nevertheless, Bangkok and Thailand will always be relatively cosmopolitan, as there are a committed number of locals and foreigners who will continue to maintain power/social-status enough to keep the problems outside of important areas. Because Thailand has no claims to the South China Sea, they will also be in privileged status to support China with no immediate economic reverberations. This means they can enjoy the Chinese political and economic glow. I don't think the Chinese are clueless though. The recent Mekong fiasco reinforces the idea the Thailand cannot be trusted by anyone. This will be really interesting over the long term. Thailand has very, very few friendly neighbors (Malaysia always has to field and return Thai fugitives, I need say nothing of Cambodia, Burma is poised to take Thailand's position in a couple of decades, and Laos, well, it's Laos. The country is one of the most backward, irrelevant countries in the world).

Edited April 19, 2012 by Unkomoncents

[sunseaker]

"The ban also aims to prevent or minimize the smuggling of parts used to assemble vehicles that can then be sold as new."

The way I also read it is they are stopping used parts from entering as well. So if you need a special part from abroad seems you could be fked.

I haven't read the new law but I am aware of quite a few shops here that sell imported used parts for Japanese cars at rates much lower than the OEM parts from dealers. These "used" parts are taken from relatively new vehicles in Japan (and Singapore) that did not pass strict road worthiness tests and then exported to Thailand and other parts of the world. The large auto manufacturers are understandably upset.

A lot of parts here are 'recycled' ie from write offs!

They never write a vehicle off here! go to the crash repair garages, you'll see cars smashed beyond recognition, you ask the worker.. "write off??" he will say NO waiting to be repaired! labour is always cheaper than replace for new. imagine how you would feel if you had just purchased a new car, you get Rear Ended on the highway, your new car is now 3 foot shorter. "dont worry insurance pay"... you now have to wait 6 months for them to repair it, your lovely new car will Never be the same again, this happened to my neighbor.

[stingray]

Therefore, the only way is: Drive a junk!

[Brian67]

Look I don't profess to be an expert on economics.

But thishis just seems plain ludicrous.

Can someone explain the reasoning to me behind this decision.

It doesn't seem to make any sesne.

It is intended to support the very important automobile industry. The purchase of used vehicles does not create jobs as does the purchase of new vehicles.Toyota and Mistsubishi/ Isuzu have an estimated 65% of the total vehicle market.Honda,, Ford and Mazda have major investments in the Thai automotive industry. It's not just new cars but parts as well and again Thailand has a big segment.

I don't like the law but I can see why it was enacted. It's all about supporting the auto industry that was hit hard by the floods.

The reality is that this law will not hurt the vast majority of Thais that will typically purchase a locally made product. When someone imports a Mercedes or BMW it creates jobs in Germany not in Thailand and the money flows out of Thailand. Another benefit, although unintended is that the newer vehicles are usually more fuel efficient and less polluting than vehicles from 5 years ago or even 3 years ago.

Personally, I think if some auto manufacturer without a manufacturing presence in Thailand wants to file a trade treaty violation complaint, they just might have a case. It's protectionism. I offer the opinion with the caveat that I am biased as I do not agree with the law.

As you correctly pointed out, Toyota, Mazda, Honda, et all ( hell even Chevrolet now!) have manufacturing plants here, some thing a bit more overlooked is the number of manufacturing plants that supply the auto makers ie. Sanden, Nippon Denso, Bosch etc. etc. that are also here.

Foreign design, made/assembled here

I haven't been to Japan but the impression I get is that once a car is over 5 years old ( a mass produced popular model), it's pretty much worthless, I have been to the U.S and after 10 years same, same.

2nd hand hand imports have a niche to fill, but just that, a niche.

From the lawmakers point of view perhaps it better to have a subsistance farmer getting around in a vehicle that might be 12 years old and parts are still getable rather than a 30 year old heap that keeps getting bastardized just to keep it going.

For the well heeled, it's tightening the noose on the "dream car"

For the priveleged few, it's still business as usual

[animatic]

Of course sales of cars is up much higher now than in recent history...

markedly up year on and partial year.

There is more to this story than just worry about lost taxes,

it's likely to punish someone not on the right team.

Edited April 21, 2012 by animatic

[marcoCM]

hi i got a question to this topic...how will this affect 2nd and new cars here?

will they get both cheaper or more expensive? i do not mean importet cars...

[jollyhangmon]

^{Perfectly understandable, 'em trying to protect their domestic carmanufacturing industry, especially all their improvements and patents which are ... wait a sec ... as good as nil - exept maybe in copying - lol - beaten by the chinese of course ...}

Edited April 22, 2012 by metisdead
Font reset to default forum font size, which is Arial size 14.

[ericjt]

That's easy. People underestimate the underground economy here and the percentage it represents. Scamming foreigners out of their money. Foreigners buying/building houses for in-laws and wives and cannot have their name on the property. At the slightest whim the foreigner can be thrown out of the house they expected to retire or just live in and many are dumb enough to repeat the same thing. Not to mention the pros that have multiple boyfriends abroad collect huge sums of money. These are thousands of men bringing thousands of dollars, pounds, etc into the country. All this cash feeds this economy.

I thought getting a usufruct (basically a life estate in a piece of real estate) from your in-laws or wife when you're buying/building a house for them protected foreigners pretty well, Markaew.

A usufruct gives its holder the right to possess and use a piece of real estate any way he/she wants as long as the usufruct holder is alive. I think it's about the same as a life estate under English law. When the usufruct holder dies, though, the usufruct disappears and the property is then held outright by its Thai owners -- as though the usufruct had never existed. That's the way it was explained to me, anyhow. Also that they are easy to do and the holder's rights are clear under Thai law.

So if a falang is married to a Thai woman and has children with her, she can buy a house and give the husband a usufruct interest in the house. It's a one page form at the Land Office, I think. The falang husband is protected while he lives, and when he dies, the usufruct disappears. The house then ends up owned outright by his wife, and she can leave it to the children, sell it, or do whatever with it.

If I'm missing something, or if I've got usufructs wrong, I'd appreciate any comments.

[robsamui]

I'm sure all this will have to stop if the ASEAN thing gets going........ you can't have individual states using protectionism in a common market.

Let's hope some other countries point out how stupid the Thais are looking here. In the longer term they are just building up a heap of problems for when the ASEAN borders start coming down.

They won't hear it. They won't change a thing. ASEAN prides itself on non-interference. Thailand has resisted free-trade among its neighbors many, many times (see beer tariffs about around ten years ago...Tiger beer, etc); it will simply amend its rules so that Thais are not left vulnerable. The voices of xenophobia are really powerful too, and Singaporeans haven't felt it yet, because the West has been taking all the flak. All that will happen is that Thailand will grow more and more isolated in the region, both politically and economically, as they will almost certainly violate the rules of the ASEAN economic community. It's likely that Thailand will become competitive with Cambodia, Laos, the Philippines and Burma (they could lose out big-time over the next couple of decades here, depending on local will for reform in Burma). The country's time wrestling with Singapore, Malaysia, and soon, Indonesia, is over. Even if the amount of investment and reorganization masks it for years, Thailand has no chance of beating these other countries over the long-term. The Japanese barely decided to stay after the last floods. What happens next time? What happens when Thailand's greatest and most inevitable political revolution begins (you know what I mean, and if you don't, you know nothing of Thailand's economic/political vulnerabilities)? The prominence of these countries, and even the Philippines, has been marked in the last couple of decades of ASEAN rule. In a couple of decades, Thailand could well be returned to SE Asian backwater status. Nevertheless, Bangkok and Thailand will always be relatively cosmopolitan, as there are a committed number of locals and foreigners who will continue to maintain power/social-status enough to keep the problems outside of important areas. Because Thailand has no claims to the South China Sea, they will also be in privileged status to support China with no immediate economic reverberations. This means they can enjoy the Chinese political and economic glow. I don't think the Chinese are clueless though. The recent Mekong fiasco reinforces the idea the Thailand cannot be trusted by anyone. This will be really interesting over the long term. Thailand has very, very few friendly neighbors (Malaysia always has to field and return Thai fugitives, I need say nothing of Cambodia, Burma is poised to take Thailand's position in a couple of decades, and Laos, well, it's Laos. The country is one of the most backward, irrelevant countries in the world).

Excellent post but fighting talk to the Thais.

They are proud proud proud of never having been invaded and colonised. They see it as a glowing emblem of nationalism and stubbornly refuse to believe that they are anything other than magnificent in their standing in the Asean community.

But you have to admire their stubbornness, as 95% of the Thai nation will still be believing it in a decade or so, when they have reduced in economic and political significance to roughly the level of, say, The Falkland Islands . . . or is this being too generous?

The other 5% - the top percentile, know the reality and will continue to milk the system relentlessly, as they have always done.

R

Edited April 22, 2012 by robsamui

[thaikahuna]

motorcycles, sedans, pick-ups and vehicles that carry more than seven passengers.

So what else is left? Is Thailand the only country in the world with such a bizar law ?

Well they helpfully left sportscars out of the list...

They needed a loophole for the ones with more money than brains to buy cars you can't even open up here (read Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche).....