Multinational Superstore Chain, Selling Expired Food

[jcw]

Here they were talking about chickens, but in many western countries, when you buy ham and bacon, it is normally about 20% added water. Easy to tell, when you put it in the pan, their the ones that shrink very fast. Easy to see when you can compare them.

[Spoonman]

I have seen fresh milk, Dutch Brand, for sale in Tesco that was 4 days past expiry. Stupid me even pointed it out to staff, they just put it back in the cool shelf. It was not discounted or anything.

That dutch milk never seems to curdle, ive had some in my fridge that was purchased before a work trip abroad and have come home and made a coffee with it. was fine and it was 3 months past the used by date !!

[Beetlejuice]

And after reading all these reports, will this put off most of you from shopping at the big stores?

Of course it won`t. Just a puff of hot air in the wind.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[surayu]

And after reading all these reports, will this put off most of you from shopping at the big stores?

that's not the point Beetlejuice, we are sharing knowlegde here, and with this we are becoming aware of something that maybe slipped out of our control, maybe helped out from the fact that many people would expect a big company to behave on a different way than the last arrived food's cart on the foothpath.

If this problem it's linked to the bottom of the working chain rather than a decision coming from the very top, it's still to be established.

I am glad others are coming up with even more stories of businesses behaving badly, i might have not noticed those issues without some little help or maybe just not have come across them, so, thanks for sharing!

We should be put in a situation to make decision based on true information and not be cheated out just to extract some more cash from our pockets, as before or later the truth will came out and be counterproductive

[h90]

Yes i can confirm the product was "noodles".

When i walk inside a "western owned" business, i am expecting that basic health rules would be respected, after all, if they have an expiry date, it must mean something, so, it would be the people in charge of making these sort of decision working in the company in question to make sure at least the very basic requirements are adhered to

Edit:

and also make sure that the managers implement these discounts BEFORE the expiration date, not having a 6 months nap and then wake up to start the sales, i am scared to think with what else they might come up with, not long ago i can recall another place(not Tesco) switching off all the fridges at night to save on the bills !

dried noodles correct produced and stored, you can eat 10 years after expiration. In some countries/products the supermarket is allowed to change the expiration dates.

No the expiration date does not mean much (I have a master degree in food technology).

Some products with low fat or no oxygen can be eaten after 100 years. Some seeds still developed into a flower after thousands of years.

While other products (meat) might get dangerous after a short time, others ugly.

(I guess my family in Europe is still eating jam that is 40 years old.)

On instant noodles I would be more concerned on the legal chemicals inside..

[h90]

Sometime back a small supermarket chain with outlets in Bangkok and Pattaya was caught replacing the stickers on expired items with new ones extending the sell by date. At least this was an honest way of getting rid of nearly outdated items.

Several franchise holders of major retail chains were caught doing this with packaged meat in the USA and Canada.

I wouldn't be surprised if this didn't happen here. Prior to the changeover to Big C, the Carrefour had smoked salmon on display that was 1-2 months past the best before date. I made the mistake of purchasing a package, and boy I could taste the "offness". My mistake for not checking the date. My local Big One was stocking Blue Diamond almonds that had an expiry date several months past. I don't think there was any intent to deceive anyone as the shelves have a high turnover. I just think that the clerks don't check the dates. It was very odd, because the store has a lot of traffic and no way it would have been intentional. The product was canned in Thailand though. Perhaps a mistake at the packager.

To change the date is in many countries legal. Smoked Salmon. If proper stored, in oxygen free air and proper smoked can be extended, no problem. Almonds if the are in air or not packed air tight or the packing let oxygen inside taste first flat than ugly....the fat gets bad.

[h90]

Here they were talking about chickens, but in many western countries, when you buy ham and bacon, it is normally about 20% added water. Easy to tell, when you put it in the pan, their the ones that shrink very fast. Easy to see when you can compare them.

20 %

I would call 120 % still OK

[Pseudolus]

A little bit of food science knowledge when debating these items can save you a bundle as well as a week on the lav.

My first port of call is always the discount section in Big C, most notably because more often than not in my store it is the exotic farang product that simply do not sell, that are there. Tesco certainly want the longest possible expiry date on their imported product; and thee product are usually not labelled "use before" but "best before". Take the original example. Instant noodles.

These noodles are basically flour, water, and maybe egg power. Maybe. They are then steamed or par boiled before being deep fried. They are then sealed and aside from creapy crawlies getting in and pooing all over the product, there is not much that can go wrong with them. For years and years they will remain fine. If the bag is sealed tight so that when you press it air does not come out, then the product is fine so fill your boots.

However, these best before / use by dates are put on the product when the food is prepared. Do you buy the marinated meats in Big C (or any super market anywhere in the world)? Well, that meat product has already sat on the shelf for quite a few days already until they use by date has passed. They then cut away the really bad meat, dip it in a strong flavoured sauce, pack it up again and stick knew shelf life on it for 7 days.

All products have a use by date on it; even salt, sugar, I bought 2 bottles of what was very expensive balsamic vinegar 2 weeks ago that was marked down from over 600 baht a bottle to 100. Its vinegar! Did the same a couple of months ago with Bon Maman jam (got a selection of 12 jars of various fruits left still).

Eggs are a good one as well. I did an experiment at Uni with eggs. We took 2 dozen eggs, and rested them on the window ledges of the lab, facing south, and above a radiator. Every fortnight we cracked one open and rand some basic tests on it ranging from spoilage through to a basic smell and taste test. After 9 months we came the stage that we did not really fancy eating the egg based on the smell which had just started to turn. How long is the expiry date on a pack of eggs?

Anyway, more than happy for you guys to keep buying the marinate meat, and leave the goodies for the stickypoo brigade like me

[surayu]

No the expiration date does not mean much

Are you suggesting that all those different countries governamental health and safety organizations, just don't know what they are talking about when they claim that expired food should not be eaten?

[Beetlejuice]

And after reading all these reports, will this put off most of you from shopping at the big stores?

that's not the point Beetlejuice, we are sharing knowlegde here, and with this we are becoming aware of something that maybe slipped out of our control, maybe helped out from the fact that many people would expect a big company to behave on a different way than the last arrived food's cart on the foothpath.

If this problem it's linked to the bottom of the working chain rather than a decision coming from the very top, it's still to be established.

I am glad others are coming up with even more stories of businesses behaving badly, i might have not noticed those issues without some little help or maybe just not have come across them, so, thanks for sharing!

We should be put in a situation to make decision based on true information and not be cheated out just to extract some more cash from our pockets, as before or later the truth will came out and be counterproductive

If you bother to read my previous post, you will see that I am saying almost what you are quoting in your post. Plus my post is very informative.

From my experience, the best way to make these stores clean up their act is to hit them in the tills.

My family and I shop at the local markets and at most times the food is cheaper, fresher and of superior quality than the supermarkets anyway.

Except for a very few items, we are able to purchase most of what we need at the markets. Not far from were we live there are a few very big markets, convenient and closer to us than the super stores.

I think the problem is that many find it difficult to shake off their old Western ways of life where supermarket shopping in the norm.

But in Thailand there is no necessity to shop at the super stores as there are plenty of alternatives to be had elsewhere.

[pipo1000]

And after reading all these reports, will this put off most of you from shopping at the big stores?

that's not the point Beetlejuice, we are sharing knowlegde here, and with this we are becoming aware of something that maybe slipped out of our control, maybe helped out from the fact that many people would expect a big company to behave on a different way than the last arrived food's cart on the foothpath.

If this problem it's linked to the bottom of the working chain rather than a decision coming from the very top, it's still to be established.

I am glad others are coming up with even more stories of businesses behaving badly, i might have not noticed those issues without some little help or maybe just not have come across them, so, thanks for sharing!

We should be put in a situation to make decision based on true information and not be cheated out just to extract some more cash from our pockets, as before or later the truth will came out and be counterproductive

If you bother to read my previous post, you will see that I am saying almost what you are quoting in your post. Plus my post is very informative.

From my experience, the best way to make these stores clean up their act is to hit them in the tills.

My family and I shop at the local markets and at most times the food is cheaper, fresher and of superior quality than the supermarkets anyway.

Except for a very few items, we are able to purchase most of what we need at the markets. Not far from were we live there are a few very big markets, convenient and closer to us than the super stores.

I think the problem is that many find it difficult to shake off their old Western ways of life where supermarket shopping in the norm.

But in Thailand there is no necessity to shop at the super stores as there are plenty of alternatives to be had elsewhere.

Does the stuff at the local market also have expiry dates attached,or do you just count the amount of flies sitting on it?

[wana]

And after reading all these reports, will this put off most of you from shopping at the big stores?

that's not the point Beetlejuice, we are sharing knowlegde here, and with this we are becoming aware of something that maybe slipped out of our control, maybe helped out from the fact that many people would expect a big company to behave on a different way than the last arrived food's cart on the foothpath.

If this problem it's linked to the bottom of the working chain rather than a decision coming from the very top, it's still to be established.

I am glad others are coming up with even more stories of businesses behaving badly, i might have not noticed those issues without some little help or maybe just not have come across them, so, thanks for sharing!

We should be put in a situation to make decision based on true information and not be cheated out just to extract some more cash from our pockets, as before or later the truth will came out and be counterproductive

If you bother to read my previous post, you will see that I am saying almost what you are quoting in your post. Plus my post is very informative.

From my experience, the best way to make these stores clean up their act is to hit them in the tills.

My family and I shop at the local markets and at most times the food is cheaper, fresher and of superior quality than the supermarkets anyway.

Except for a very few items, we are able to purchase most of what we need at the markets. Not far from were we live there are a few very big markets, convenient and closer to us than the super stores.

I think the problem is that many find it difficult to shake off their old Western ways of life where supermarket shopping in the norm.

But in Thailand there is no necessity to shop at the super stores as there are plenty of alternatives to be had elsewhere.

its fine saying get everything in the markets ,but the markets dont have "everything " so id end up having to go into a supermarket anyway

also i coulnt be bothered having to barter / haggle in thai for the price of every item,much faster to whizz around dumping things in a trolley and pay at the end

plus markets are not open 18-24 hours per day like superstores etc so u might have to get up early to make the market or wait al day and go in the evening ...

actually ,i value my time more highly than to save a few thb but waste a couple more hours doing something i hate (shopping )

[surayu]

I think the problem is that many find it difficult to shake off their old Western ways of life where supermarket shopping in the norm.

Personally, i am not afraid of changes, so, if a better option came up to the supermarkets, i am ready for it.

It's not a lazyness to give up old habits that brings me there, more likely the ambience, the airconditioning plays a big part too in that, plus a cleaner and safer environment while you shop, the availability of products that are nowhere else to find nearby and the convenience of having other suitables places around as the food courts, KFC, etc.

I don't buy western food out of a nostalgic feeling, more because of my own taste in food

[h90]

No the expiration date does not mean much

Are you suggesting that all those different countries governamental health and safety organizations, just don't know what they are talking about when they claim that expired food should not be eaten?

yes.

beside it is big money

[Beetlejuice]

And after reading all these reports, will this put off most of you from shopping at the big stores?

that's not the point Beetlejuice, we are sharing knowlegde here, and with this we are becoming aware of something that maybe slipped out of our control, maybe helped out from the fact that many people would expect a big company to behave on a different way than the last arrived food's cart on the foothpath.

If this problem it's linked to the bottom of the working chain rather than a decision coming from the very top, it's still to be established.

I am glad others are coming up with even more stories of businesses behaving badly, i might have not noticed those issues without some little help or maybe just not have come across them, so, thanks for sharing!

We should be put in a situation to make decision based on true information and not be cheated out just to extract some more cash from our pockets, as before or later the truth will came out and be counterproductive

If you bother to read my previous post, you will see that I am saying almost what you are quoting in your post. Plus my post is very informative.

From my experience, the best way to make these stores clean up their act is to hit them in the tills.

My family and I shop at the local markets and at most times the food is cheaper, fresher and of superior quality than the supermarkets anyway.

Except for a very few items, we are able to purchase most of what we need at the markets. Not far from were we live there are a few very big markets, convenient and closer to us than the super stores.

I think the problem is that many find it difficult to shake off their old Western ways of life where supermarket shopping in the norm.

But in Thailand there is no necessity to shop at the super stores as there are plenty of alternatives to be had elsewhere.

Does the stuff at the local market also have expiry dates attached,or do you just count the amount of flies sitting on it?

Judging by some of the reports here, supermarket expiry dates don`t mean much anyway.

And as for the standard of quality of food sold in the markets, it must be good stuff, I mean, 4000 flies can`t be wrong.

But there are no rights and wrongs to this. All have their good and bad points.

Everyone has they`re own opinions, preferences and the freedom of choice.

You have to decide which is best for you.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[pipo1000]

^ that's what I was talking about.Less flies means no nutrition anymore.

[surayu]

And as for the standard of quality of food sold in the markets, it must be good stuff, I mean, 4000 flies can`t be wrong.

i agree!

Even the many dogs wandering around the stalls knows their stuff, real gourmets i would say

[Beetlejuice]

And as for the standard of quality of food sold in the markets, it must be good stuff, I mean, 4000 flies can`t be wrong.

i agree!

Even the many dogs wandering around the stalls knows their stuff, real gourmets i would say

And who knows, perhaps many of those dogs end up on the menu?

After reading all this stuff, I think I’ll become a vegetarian just to be on the safe side.

[regine]

No the expiration date does not mean much

Are you suggesting that all those different countries governamental health and safety organizations, just don't know what they are talking about when they claim that expired food should not be eaten?

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration clearly states that with the exception of infant formula, retailers can sell food that is past the expiration date indicated on the label. This includes "expired by", "use by", "best before", etc. Also, to even place an expiry date on most food products is completely up to the discretion of the manufacturer. The Food Safety Authority of Ireland also allows the sale of food items that have past their expiry date.

Expiry dates mean nothing. They are for quality, not safety. Products can spoil before the expiry date or years after. In addition, stores can change the expiry date on items they pack at store level as long as the original packed on/manufactured date remains.

So, if all this is completely legal in the USA and parts of Europe, it is really so wrong that Thai shops are doing it. Why the double standard?

[doggie888888]

I have seen fresh milk, Dutch Brand, for sale in Tesco that was 4 days past expiry. Stupid me even pointed it out to staff, they just put it back in the cool shelf. It was not discounted or anything.

That dutch milk never seems to curdle, ive had some in my fridge that was purchased before a work trip abroad and have come home and made a coffee with it. was fine and it was 3 months past the used by date !!

Oh I am glad you noticed too. I am starting to wonder about these locally produced "fresh" milk, as they seem to last forever. After that melamine contaminated milk scare in China, I worry about what else they add to "fresh" milk here, because there is no way it can last so long in this weather (after all, it is not usually continuously in the fridge per normal household use). I recently discovered that even in Australia, fresh milk contains up to 15% additives, most notable something called "permeate" which is "a watery, greenish waste product from the production of cheese".

Edited April 21, 2012 by doggie888888

[regine]

Oh I am glad you noticed too. I am starting to wonder about these locally produced "fresh" milk, as they seem to last forever. After that melamine contaminated milk scare in China, I worry about what else they add to "fresh" milk here, because there is no way it can last so long in this weather (after all, it is not usually continuously in the fridge per normal household use). I recently discovered that even in Australia, fresh milk contains up to 15% additives, most notable something called "permeate" which is "a watery, greenish waste product from the production of cheese".

Dairy product solids aka "permeate" is in everything. Confectionery, baked good, soups, meat products, etc. It's also called modified whey.

Milk can last for a very long time if it's micro-filtered, which is popular nowadays.

And the melamine in the milk in China was added to boost the protein content, not to extend the shelf-life.

Edited April 21, 2012 by regine

[exeter]

Tesco, a UK company are not allowed to sell goods where the sell by date has passed, they would be fined a fixed amount muliplied by the number of items found. Here it seems its an opportunity to cut the loss and for others to make a quick profit. So long as its kept right and moved quick you can probably get away with it, depending on exactly what the product is and here the keeping is open to interpretation, mae pen rai,

[regine]

Tesco, a UK company are not allowed to sell goods where the sell by date has passed, they would be fined a fixed amount muliplied by the number of items found. Here it seems its an opportunity to cut the loss and for others to make a quick profit. So long as its kept right and moved quick you can probably get away with it, depending on exactly what the product is and here the keeping is open to interpretation, mae pen rai,

Not allowed by whom?

[regine]

Tesco, a UK company are not allowed to sell goods where the sell by date has passed, they would be fined a fixed amount muliplied by the number of items found. Here it seems its an opportunity to cut the loss and for others to make a quick profit. So long as its kept right and moved quick you can probably get away with it, depending on exactly what the product is and here the keeping is open to interpretation, mae pen rai,

From Defra (Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)

A product with a ‘use by’ date cannot be sold after that date and should not be used after midnight of that day.

‘Best before’ dates relate to food quality, including taste, texture, aroma and appearance, whilst ‘use by’ dates relate to food safety. The ‘best before’ date is a quality indication used by the manufacturer to indicate that the food will be, assuming correct storage has been maintained, at its best before a certain date. A food which is past its ‘best before’ date should be safe to eat, but may not be at its best quality after this date.

Historically both ‘display until’ and ‘sell by’ dates have been used by food businesses for stock control, although the latter is now used less frequently... These have no legal basis and are not aimed at consumers to indicate when to eat the food; they are to be used for commercial purposes only.

So your "sell by" comment must be company policy, it's not UK law. "Use By" dates are the only dates in the UK where store aren't allowed to sell product past. This in not the case, as I mentioned, in the USA or in Ireland. And again, this is Thailand so UK food laws obviously don't apply.

[catmac]

No the expiration date does not mean much

Are you suggesting that all those different countries governamental health and safety organizations, just don't know what they are talking about when they claim that expired food should not be eaten?

yes.

beside it is big money

I believe that the UK is seriously re-examining the "best before" deal, as it is now accepted that millions of pounds worth of perfectly edible food is being trashed for no good reason at all. "Health and Safety" as a concept may be fine, but as always the H&S fanatics just never know when to stop. Forcing companies in the UK to put warning signs on the hot water tap - "Warning - Hot Water" - was just one example of their over-zealous crusading.

[notmyself]

Here they were talking about chickens, but in many western countries, when you buy ham and bacon, it is normally about 20% added water. Easy to tell, when you put it in the pan, their the ones that shrink very fast. Easy to see when you can compare them.

20 %

I would call 120 % still OK

Somewhere in the middle I would say. The food manufacturing company I mentioned earlier in the thread also produced hams. When the leg had been deboned it would be put on a slow moving belt and passed through an injection machine. They would go in around the size of a rugby or volly ball and come out the size of a medicine ball.

[farang000999]

expiration dates for dried products and other stuff like honey is there so you can throw it away and buy more.

[surayu]

So, if all this is completely legal in the USA and parts of Europe, it is really so wrong that Thai shops are doing it. Why the double standard?

I luckily belong to one of those countries where selling expired food is illegal, at least someone got this right there, and even the USA neighbouring country Canada got it right.

If there is the slightest doubt that what you sell it's going to do some damage, then it should be forbidden or at the very least, people buying them MUST be informed of the situation, not just pretending everything is good and exactly on the same condition of the more healty stuff, give us an option to decide by ourself

[regine]

So, if all this is completely legal in the USA and parts of Europe, it is really so wrong that Thai shops are doing it. Why the double standard?

I luckily belong to one of those countries where selling expired food is illegal, at least someone got this right there, and even the USA neighbouring country Canada got it right.

If there is the slightest doubt that what you sell it's going to do some damage, then it should be forbidden or at the very least, people buying them MUST be informed of the situation, not just pretending everything is good and exactly on the same condition of the more healty stuff, give us an option to decide by ourself

And what country is that?And it's not illegal in Canada either.

You're assuming things that are clearly not true.

If it's not illegal to sell expired foods in the USA, Canada, or in parts of Europe, what country are you in that has superior food laws to these countries? Australia? 5555

(I believe Australia does have different rules, by to say their food safety system is superior to that of the USA, Canada, and Europe is what I think is funny.)

Edited April 21, 2012 by regine

[regine]

I luckily belong to one of those countries where selling expired food is illegal, at least someone got this right there, and even the USA neighbouring country Canada got it right.

Canadian Food Agency:

You can buy and eat foods after the "best before" date has passed. However, when this date has passed, the food may lose some of its freshness and flavour, or its texture may have changed. Some of its nutritional value, such as vitamin C content, may also be lost. Remember that "best before" dates are not indicators of food safety, neither before nor after the date. They apply to unopened products only. Once opened, the shelf life of a food may change.