Thai Govt Urged To Defer Wage Hike Until 2015

[Rimmer]

Flame and quoted reply removed

[kimamey]

HMMMMMMMMMMM until after the next General Election, hmmmmm, what a jolly good idea! Sure people wont mind, we have not broken a promise just delayed it. Some one said what about the inflation in the country, yes what about it indeed! When you finally get the 300bt a day rise you say "Ghosh that was worth the wait." Or maybe not and you will see you have been had, again.

broken promise ??

Look again at who wants to delay the increase.

The promise is from the government to the people. If they don't fulfill that promise then its a broken promise, regardless of the reason they use for not fulfilling it.

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1) the wage committee makes the decision, the government is 1/3 of that

2) the point here is - and you can read it for yourself - that business is requesting the delay.

3) another poster has talked about a broken promise, which is not the case as the government has not delayed the 2nd phase.

There is no broken promise, only the business lobby who wants it to become broken.

I thought the original promise was something like 300 baht per day nationwide. May have been immediately as well.

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[whybother]

1) the wage committee makes the decision, the government is 1/3 of that

2) the point here is - and you can read it for yourself - that business is requesting the delay.

3) another poster has talked about a broken promise, which is not the case as the government has not delayed the 2nd phase.

There is no broken promise, only the business lobby who wants it to become broken.

I thought the original promise was something like 300 baht per day nationwide. May have been immediately as well.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://aps.thaivisa.com

I think what Tom is trying to say is that they tried to deliver their promise, but the business lobby overruled them, so it's not PTP's fault - so mark that down as delivered.

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[tlansford]

1) the wage committee makes the decision, the government is 1/3 of that

2) the point here is - and you can read it for yourself - that business is requesting the delay.

3) another poster has talked about a broken promise, which is not the case as the government has not delayed the 2nd phase.

There is no broken promise, only the business lobby who wants it to become broken.

I thought the original promise was something like 300 baht per day nationwide. May have been immediately as well.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://aps.thaivisa.com

I think what Tom is trying to say is that they tried to deliver their promise, but the business lobby overruled them, so it's not PTP's fault - so mark that down as delivered.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

What Tom is actually saying is that the government is delivering the 300B minimum wage & to claim that it is a "broken campaign promise", as done by many posters and recently also by the opposition, is not true.

[waza]

1) the wage committee makes the decision, the government is 1/3 of that

2) the point here is - and you can read it for yourself - that business is requesting the delay.

3) another poster has talked about a broken promise, which is not the case as the government has not delayed the 2nd phase.

There is no broken promise, only the business lobby who wants it to become broken.

I thought the original promise was something like 300 baht per day nationwide. May have been immediately as well.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://aps.thaivisa.com

I think what Tom is trying to say is that they tried to deliver their promise, but the business lobby overruled them, so it's not PTP's fault - so mark that down as delivered.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

What Tom is actually saying is that the government is delivering the 300B minimum wage & to claim that it is a "broken campaign promise", as done by many posters and recently also by the opposition, is not true.

Whos Tom?

[whybother]

What Tom is actually saying is that the government is delivering the 300B minimum wage & to claim that it is a "broken campaign promise", as done by many posters and recently also by the opposition, is not true.

So if they delivered the 300 baht in 2015, you'd still consider it a delivered promise? Even though they promised it immediately?

[tlansford]

What Tom is actually saying is that the government is delivering the 300B minimum wage & to claim that it is a "broken campaign promise", as done by many posters and recently also by the opposition, is not true.

So if they delivered the 300 baht in 2015, you'd still consider it a delivered promise? Even though they promised it immediately?

Why do you even bother to pose that question?

Jan 2013 is the date.

The government made a plan. The plan is being executed.

Do you think it is a bad plan?

[whybother]

What Tom is actually saying is that the government is delivering the 300B minimum wage & to claim that it is a "broken campaign promise", as done by many posters and recently also by the opposition, is not true.

So if they delivered the 300 baht in 2015, you'd still consider it a delivered promise? Even though they promised it immediately?

Why do you even bother to pose that question?

Jan 2013 is the date.

The government made a plan. The plan is being executed.

Do you think it is a bad plan?

Jan 2012 was the date that they promised.

[tlansford]

What Tom is actually saying is that the government is delivering the 300B minimum wage & to claim that it is a "broken campaign promise", as done by many posters and recently also by the opposition, is not true.

So if they delivered the 300 baht in 2015, you'd still consider it a delivered promise? Even though they promised it immediately?

Why do you even bother to pose that question?

Jan 2013 is the date.

The government made a plan. The plan is being executed.

Do you think it is a bad plan?

Jan 2012 was the date that they promised.

Do you think it is a bad plan?

[whybother]

Do you think it is a bad plan?

The plan they promised originally, or they plan they are promising now?

edit: good or bad doesn't stop it from being a broken promise.

Edited April 25, 2012 by whybother

[tlansford]

Do you think it is a bad plan?

The plan they promised originally, or they plan they are promising now?

edit: good or bad doesn't stop it from being a broken promise.

My post was clear.

Do you think it is a bad plan?

[whybother]

Do you think it is a bad plan?

The plan they promised originally, or they plan they are promising now?

edit: good or bad doesn't stop it from being a broken promise.

My post was clear.

Do you think it is a bad plan?

I think it's a bad plan. Why do you think it's a good plan?

[tlansford]

Do you think it is a bad plan?

The plan they promised originally, or they plan they are promising now?

edit: good or bad doesn't stop it from being a broken promise.

My post was clear.

Do you think it is a bad plan?

I think it's a bad plan. Why do you think it's a good plan?

I think it is a realistic plan.

I think it is realistic because it does what was promised (300B/day) and does it in a way that allows those companies in the business community affected by the policy (which is not every company, nor every industry) to adapt to the wage changes.

I think raising the minimum wage was/is a good idea. I think 300 B/day is not too low for the minimum wage. I think that if you as a company/business owner have a job that needs to be done all day, that you can pay 300 B. I think if the same company or business owner doesn't want to pay 300B for the job, then either 1) the job doesn't need to be done, or 2) the decision is based on the age old concept of exploitation. I don't think that a job that pays 300B is a binary decision, on or off, and not subject to the metric of increased productivity to justify the pay - again, either the job is worth it at 300B/day or not. Period.

I think that inflation due to the min-wage increase is in reality very limited, but that the minimum wage will be blamed as the source of inflation in many areas - This is already the case, and theoretically, the increase has been in effect for 25 days. I think companies throughout the supply chain will take advantage of this to raise their prices whether or not they are impacted by the minimum wage. I do not think that a significant # of companies will relocate or not locate in Thailand due to this change. Wages across Asia are on the increase and Thailand is not doing this in vacuum. I think that even if that were to be the case, the increase in the minimum wage is the right thing to do and that companies who want to exploit other humans for their own profits should be invited to do so elsewhere.

Now, why do you think that it is a bad plan?

[whybother]

I think it is realistic because it does what was promised (300B/day)

Just not WHEN it was promised.

Now, why do you think that it is a bad plan?

I think it's a bad plan because:

1) having the same minimum wage nationwide encourages companies to move closer to Bangkok taking jobs from areas further from Bangkok.

2) having such a large increase in such a short period will mean some companies won't be able to adjust, leading to less jobs either because of companies getting rid of some staff or completely shutting down.

What will happen in the 7 provinces in 2013? Will they get an increase again?

[tlansford]

I think it is realistic because it does what was promised (300B/day)

Just not WHEN it was promised.

Now, why do you think that it is a bad plan?

I think it's a bad plan because:

1) having the same minimum wage nationwide encourages companies to move closer to Bangkok taking jobs from areas further from Bangkok.

2) having such a large increase in such a short period will mean some companies won't be able to adjust, leading to less jobs either because of companies getting rid of some staff or completely shutting down.

What will happen in the 7 provinces in 2013? Will they get an increase again?

Regarding the "when" :

During the campaign, was there a date for "when" it was promised? As with the tablet program, I have seen target dates after the election - ie: goals - but I don't recall, nor do I find dates prior to the election. I could be overlooking / not finding the right references. That's possible, but does it really matter as the min-wage / other programs are moving forward? It would be too easy to compare this to the previous gov't which did not have this kind of a platform and much of nothing was moving forward...

And no one can point to foot-dragging or reneging on the campaign platform, although many other posters just make blanket statements in that regard which are patently untrue.

Regarding your point 1, I have seen the inverse argued, that a higher min-wage in BKK draws people to BKK to look for work and further from their homes. Regarding your point 2, I have already stated the opposite, so we can agree to disagree To be perfectly honest, I go back to 2 points on that, one is the already stated "if the job is worth doing, then pay 300B or just don't do it" point, and companies have known this was coming since July 3rd - 9 months to adjust.

[bigbamboo]

I think it is realistic because it does what was promised (300B/day)

Just not WHEN it was promised.

Now, why do you think that it is a bad plan?

I think it's a bad plan because:

1) having the same minimum wage nationwide encourages companies to move closer to Bangkok taking jobs from areas further from Bangkok.

2) having such a large increase in such a short period will mean some companies won't be able to adjust, leading to less jobs either because of companies getting rid of some staff or completely shutting down.

What will happen in the 7 provinces in 2013? Will they get an increase again?

Given that BKK is the nation's 'mother city' and is more expensive to live in than the rest of the country perhaps the government should have incorporated a weighting allowance within the minimum wage to offset the difference. For example the min wage could be 100 baht higher in BKK than elsewhere. Not a perfect solution I admit and no doubt touristy areas would say the cost of living is just as high there but it might help to maintain a balance.

[whybother]

Given that BKK is the nation's 'mother city' and is more expensive to live in than the rest of the country perhaps the government should have incorporated a weighting allowance within the minimum wage to offset the difference. For example the min wage could be 100 baht higher in BKK than elsewhere. Not a perfect solution I admit and no doubt touristy areas would say the cost of living is just as high there but it might help to maintain a balance.

It's a balancing act between keeping the workers in the provinces and keeping the businesses in the provinces.

If the difference between the wages in Bangkok and the provinces is too high, then the workers will flock to Bangkok. If the difference is too low, then the businesses will flock to Bangkok (or at least closer, to avoid transport costs).

[waza]

Given that BKK is the nation's 'mother city' and is more expensive to live in than the rest of the country perhaps the government should have incorporated a weighting allowance within the minimum wage to offset the difference. For example the min wage could be 100 baht higher in BKK than elsewhere. Not a perfect solution I admit and no doubt touristy areas would say the cost of living is just as high there but it might help to maintain a balance.

It's a balancing act between keeping the workers in the provinces and keeping the businesses in the provinces.

If the difference between the wages in Bangkok and the provinces is too high, then the workers will flock to Bangkok. If the difference is too low, then the businesses will flock to Bangkok (or at least closer, to avoid transport costs).

Wages play a part in a businesses decision to locate, however way above that cosideration is the size of the labour pool and infrastructure. If wages are national, workers will move to Issan where they have social and family support and the cost of living is cheaper and manufacturing will move to regional centers in Issan with railroad, airports and hiway infrastructure to take advantage of the large stable labour pool low rents and lower setup costs.

Edited April 26, 2012 by waza

[OzMick]

I think it is a realistic plan.

I think it is realistic because it does what was promised (300B/day) and does it in a way that allows those companies in the business community affected by the policy (which is not every company, nor every industry) to adapt to the wage changes.

I think raising the minimum wage was/is a good idea. I think 300 B/day is not too low for the minimum wage. I think that if you as a company/business owner have a job that needs to be done all day, that you can pay 300 B. I think if the same company or business owner doesn't want to pay 300B for the job, then either 1) the job doesn't need to be done, or 2) the decision is based on the age old concept of exploitation. I don't think that a job that pays 300B is a binary decision, on or off, and not subject to the metric of increased productivity to justify the pay - again, either the job is worth it at 300B/day or not. Period.

I think that inflation due to the min-wage increase is in reality very limited, but that the minimum wage will be blamed as the source of inflation in many areas - This is already the case, and theoretically, the increase has been in effect for 25 days. I think companies throughout the supply chain will take advantage of this to raise their prices whether or not they are impacted by the minimum wage. I do not think that a significant # of companies will relocate or not locate in Thailand due to this change. Wages across Asia are on the increase and Thailand is not doing this in vacuum. I think that even if that were to be the case, the increase in the minimum wage is the right thing to do and that companies who want to exploit other humans for their own profits should be invited to do so elsewhere.

Now, why do you think that it is a bad plan?

There will be very few companies and NO industries that don't have minimum wage employees. The floor has to be swept, the toilet cleaned, and you don't need a uni degree to do it. These jobs are basic and essential so that when the cost of a basic goes up, it does affect the business.

What is a variable is how often the job gets done, and how diligent the worker. If you have 3 floor sweepers, one gets the sack and the other 2 are told to cover his workload (as much as possible) or change places with the newly unemployed. Welcome to the real world.

There are going to be a lot of Thais seeking new employment over this. I see it already in the small businesses around my home where staff numbers have noticeably dropped.