Selling Thai Brides

[thaivisitor]

I know this happens a fair bit but I still cant help but think they have stooped to new levels and it will cause problems in the village in the future

One guy married a girl from our village not long ago and just returned with 5 friends to find wives. No big deal

But the 1st guys wife went around the village asking who wants a farang husband and the girls and there families paid money to the wife for being pair off with one of these old guys

Now the problem I have is that these where not bar girls but normal village girls with Thai boy friends and probably being pressured by family to marry to get the dollars. 

I cant help but feel that the young Thai guys are gone to start to cause trouble as there little darlings are sold of  to guys two or three time there age one of the girls is 17 years old

To me it all seams a bit sick 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I may add my 2 baht worth.

It may look barbaric, uncultured, unethical, etc, etc to many but still we got to look from different perspective.

It is an Asian tradition that matchmakers gets an "ang pow" (read packet with money inside) from the parents of the bride or bridegroom depending on who's looking, when a marriage is set. I see it as that when the girl gets some money from the parents of any girl that wants to get married.

I would not be surprise too if the girl or her husband gets something from the guys too. Afterall, online matchmaking services also charges a fee, don't they?

So like I say, its different perspective. For example, I have heard many friends say they would not "pay" for a girl, so they wouldn't be found negotiating with any FL or working ladies for a night. But if they happened to "pick up" a girl (whether she's FL or whatever), they would give her a generous tip for her time spent.

What else is new?

Edited December 25, 2005 by thaivisitor

[thaivisitor]

Bit tragic thats for sure for both partys.

Illiterate farm girl marrys broken down old falang.

Why...for her A better future,a sacrfice to feed the family.

For him live in housemaid and sex slave.

I think that's an unfair way to generalize farangs who are old. Are they all borken down? Are you sure that old man farangs look for brides to be housemaids and sex slaves.

Personally, I'm not incline to believe that.

[thaivisitor]

Take heart at the fact that these girls, if their parents are using them as property to be traded, are most likely getting a far better life married off to some old guy than they would if "sold" locally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have an odd definition of "better life". Being forced to marry some abusive alcoholic twice her age who's going to treat her like a slave and sweep her off to some alien country where she doesn't speak or read the language and she's thousands of miles away from everyone she knows and loves?

That's a better life?

Not saying that every guy is like that, but let's face it, if some guy is willing to "buy" a child-wife who barely speaks his language, he's probably not the cream of the crop in the husband department. More than likely he's just looking for a sex-toy/maid who won't give him any lip like his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ex-wife used to do.

Some girls may go allow with this horrendous practice to "support" their families or because they actually believe they might get a "better life" for themselves, but the sad reality is that many of them end up trapped in abusive, unfulfilling slave-marriages far from everything that is familar and comforting. For every "happy ending" of some girl getting sold into a better life, there's probably a few more that end up in domestic abuse, "silent suffering" and/or divorce.

Being a farang doesn't automatically make someone "better".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that a "fact" or also a generalised opinion? Because, I really like to have a look at some stats which might back up your statement.

Because at the trend the statements against farangs are going, its going to be farangs that look for foreign brides in whichever way, are all "no good"?

I won't be surprise when someone comes with a post to say farangs looking for future wives in bars are this or that, or whatever....

Granted, many of you have experiences seeing such things happen, but even the 100 cases you have witness is not the "majority" as compared to the total numbers of such marriages.

Personally, unless there are hard facts to back up such statements, I'm not incline to believe any of that.

[Stephen Cleary]

Cant write much on these forums without an argument.

So here is the law Mr GBurns:

It is illegal in Thailand for a male to afford any gift to a girl under the age of 18, whether it is in the form of a shirt or cash with the intent of having sex. Pls dont argue, this in itself is called underage prostitution in Thailand.

Promoting this kind of activity is illegal. Regardless to any so-called parents consent.

[Stephen Cleary]

Dragonman is write here Mr Burns, the Thai justice sytem would not believe that a group of Thais had 'set up' a young girl of under the age of 18 with an old Farang just for friendship purposes.

Busted!

[thaivisitor]

Cant write much on these forums without an argument.

So here is the law Mr GBurns:

It is illegal in Thailand for a male to afford any gift to a girl under the age of 18, whether it is in the form of a shirt or cash with the intent of having sex. Pls dont argue, this in itself is called underage prostitution in Thailand.

Promoting this kind of activity is illegal. Regardless to any so-called parents consent.

Dragonman is write here Mr Burns, the Thai justice sytem would not believe that a group of Thais had 'set up' a young girl of under the age of 18 with an old Farang just for friendship purposes.

Busted!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But isn't Mr GBurns arguement that it is not against the law for a guy to offer gifts or cash (or for that matter to accept) in return for the marriage of a girl under the age of 18?

Or are you assuming that sex precedes marriage? which I didn't see Mr GBurns mentioned that at all.

I'm sure Mr GBurns meant marriage. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Also whether the Thai justice system believes or not, has yet to be seen. You are assuming that the Thai justice systemj is faulty as it does not take true intent into account. (I'm assuming Mr GBurns stand is that old man wants to marry the girl, and no sex before marriage).

Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited December 25, 2005 by thaivisitor

[Buff-horns]

it is seen as a short term affair to raise money for a new house and car ,pay off gambling debts , and then the poor old farang is ditched and the thai bloke & family gets to live in comfort .

[mogoso]

I'm not getting into the underage/ prostitution crap.

But the sale of a daughter for monetary gain was engrained in many cultures. The I trade you two good ponies for your daughter to make her my squaw thing has been happening since right after man ( or woman)invented prostitution.

Wedding brokers also have been collecting money to make matches for monetery gain for a long while. Didn't (that sterling example of hollywood socialism) Barbara Steisand play one in a movie once.

It's not the route I'd travel, but I'd not condemn one side or the other for engaging in it. Chieftans, kings, headman in charge have married sons/ daughters for political advantage. Maybe cash isn't involved in alot of these arranged marriages, but the principal is the same, the worth of the commodity.

[Pudgimelon]

Personally, unless there are hard facts to back up such statements, I'm not incline to believe any of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ask, and thou shalt recieve:

INS Reports and Studies: The "Mail Order Bride Industry" and its impact on US Immigration.

Now granted that's a study on Mail Order Brides from Asia as a whole (both SE Asia and Russia), and not just Thailand, and granted that this thread is talking about guys shopping for wives in villages, not through the internet, but I'm pretty sure that the conclusions in this study would also apply to this thread. Also, that's just from a two-second google seach on the topic. I'm sure if you were interested in learning more FACTS, you could look them up yourself using the internet and a smidgeon of effort.

Some interesting quotes from that study:

Why do foreign women want American husbands? Many sources suggest that these women are searching for a "better life" in terms of socio-economic factors--they do, for the most part, come from places in which jobs and educational opportunities for women are scarce and wages are low. However, when the women themselves are asked this question, the answer generally indicates an attraction to American men (they look like movie stars) and an aversion to native men. Americans, they say, make good husbands while Filipino (Thai/Indonesian/Russian/etc.) men do not. Americans are thought to be faithful to their wives, while the native men are cruel and run around with other women. True or not, this is the perception.

Fifty-seven percent (of the American men using the services) had been married at least once

Why do American men want foreign wives? Most of the personal reports from American men who have married women through these agencies talk about "traditional values." That is, American women are thought not content to be wives and mothers but seek personal satisfaction through their own careers and interests, while the foreign woman is happy to be the homemaker and asks for nothing more than husband, home, and family. Again, true or not, this is the perception.

Although Jedlicka states in his conclusions that his research shows the men who choose the mail-order methods for mate selection appear ". . . above average . . .  ....he cautions that such conclusions are thin at best and such interpretations from these data are not warranted. His experience and the observations of others show that, contrary to responses in questionnaires, those who have used the mail-order bride route to find a mate have control in mind more than a loving, enduring relationship

While no national figures exist on abuse of alien wives, there is every reason to believe that the incidence is higher in this population than for the nation as a whole (which is about 7%). Authorities agree that abuse in these marriages can be expected based on the men's desire for a submissive wife and the women's desire for a better life. At some point, after the alien bride has had time to adjust to the new environment, to make new friends, and to become comfortable with the language, her new independence and his domination are bound to conflict.

The problem... ...is largely due to the men's unrealistic expectations. While many state a desire for a submissive wife, they find that such dependence becomes a burden. To provide some relief, the husband seeks ways (friends, activities) that will get the wife "out of the house" on occasion. The resulting independence then angers the husband who manifests the anger on the wife, who may have only been guilty of trying to please her husband.

I think this backs up my statements sufficiently.

[lingyai]

The problem... ...is largely due to the men's unrealistic expectations. While many state a desire for a submissive wife' date=' they find that such dependence becomes a burden. To provide some relief, the husband seeks ways (friends, activities) that will get the wife "out of the house" on occasion. The resulting independence then angers the husband who manifests the anger on the wife, who may have only been guilty of trying to please her husband.[/quote']

I think this backs up my statements sufficiently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

or to put it another way she (a young wife) starts getting checked out by guys that are in there 20s like she is! She also sees that most women in the country have more freedom and are dating guys that are not 30+ years older. Also the tables are turned a bit as in western countries Thais (and asians) are a minority and so she is viewed as "exotic" and again gets a fair amount of attentions from guys more in her age range.

[thaivisitor]

Personally, unless there are hard facts to back up such statements, I'm not incline to believe any of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ask, and thou shalt recieve:

INS Reports and Studies: The "Mail Order Bride Industry" and its impact on US Immigration.

Now granted that's a study on Mail Order Brides from Asia as a whole (both SE Asia and Russia), and not just Thailand, and granted that this thread is talking about guys shopping for wives in villages, not through the internet, but I'm pretty sure that the conclusions in this study would also apply to this thread. Also, that's just from a two-second google seach on the topic. I'm sure if you were interested in learning more FACTS, you could look them up yourself using the internet and a smidgeon of effort.

I think this backs up my statements sufficiently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for the link. Allow me some time to digest the article. From the surface of your quotes, it does look like you have a point as the intents of the mail order brides and searching brides from villages are generally the same.

[Morden]

It seems to me that there are many, many assumptions and generalisations in this thread, including the original post. All of the usual buttons have been pressed haven't they? For example:

1. Money

2. Old farang (presumably meaning older than the poster)

3. Age difference (greater than that of the poster and his wife?)

4. Families wanting a shot at farang money

5. Abusive farang husbands

6. Prostitution

7. Farang is a divorcee (and, presumably, the poster is not).

There's barely a shred of evidence about the detail of what was going on in that village and, perhaps, all of the guys went home empty handed. But the thread, like so many others, has become a sounding board for the judgemental and prejudiced. 'If it ain't what I did it's disgusting, immoral, illegal' and so on. Can't people just be allowed to get on with their lives without being condemned? It's like listening to old ladies who watched Theroux in Thailand.

However, if we're allowing ourselves to generalise and judge, how about guessing at why those chaps went all the way to the village where their pal's wife came from? Perhaps they saw how happy the couple was. Perhaps they were fed up with going to a singles club or searching the dating websites only to find either a slapper or a bitter divorcee who wants to punish a new guy for what her ex did whilst looking forward to a pension she didn't earn. Sweeping statements can support any theory, can't they?

Condemning others who are different from us or have different cultural backgrounds from us is what causes wars. Don't we understand just from having Thai wives what it's like to be judged by the ignorant?

[mraitchison]

What was the 'real' age of the girls? Several friends have talked before about 15 year old girls being offered for marriage in their village (not just to farangs either).

Strange society that we have chosen to live in.

[gburns57au]

Cant write much on these forums without an argument.

So here is the law Mr GBurns:

It is illegal in Thailand for a male to afford any gift to a girl under the age of 18, whether it is in the form of a shirt or cash with the intent of having sex. Pls dont argue, this in itself is called underage prostitution in Thailand.

Promoting this kind of activity is illegal. Regardless to any so-called parents consent.

I have highlighted the important bit for you, so you can read it again.

There is no mention of sex in the OP and again if the intent is to have a relationship then this law is not being broken. Or are you saying that every Farang who forms a relationship with a girl of any age is making her a prostitute. Because sir, to me that is exactly what you are inferring.

[gburns57au]

Dragonman is write here Mr Burns, the Thai justice sytem would not believe that a group of Thais had 'set up' a young girl of under the age of 18 with an old Farang just for friendship purposes.

Busted!

Ok.... you seem to be very knowledgeable about Thai Justice....you tell me exactly what they would believe....I am sure that many would like to hear your answer....oh and be prepared to be flamed a lot.

[gburns57au]

Cant write much on these forums without an argument.

So here is the law Mr GBurns:

It is illegal in Thailand for a male to afford any gift to a girl under the age of 18, whether it is in the form of a shirt or cash with the intent of having sex. Pls dont argue, this in itself is called underage prostitution in Thailand.

Promoting this kind of activity is illegal. Regardless to any so-called parents consent.

Dragonman is write here Mr Burns, the Thai justice sytem would not believe that a group of Thais had 'set up' a young girl of under the age of 18 with an old Farang just for friendship purposes.

Busted!

But isn't Mr GBurns arguement that it is not against the law for a guy to offer gifts or cash (or for that matter to accept) in return for the marriage of a girl under the age of 18?

Or are you assuming that sex precedes marriage? which I didn't see Mr GBurns mentioned that at all.

I'm sure Mr GBurns meant marriage. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Also whether the Thai justice system believes or not, has yet to be seen. You are assuming that the Thai justice systemj is faulty as it does not take true intent into account. (I'm assuming Mr GBurns stand is that old man wants to marry the girl, and no sex before marriage).

Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

More or less what I was saying except that I was referring to relationships moreso than marriage, It is legal for a guy to enter a relationship with the girl and even have sex with her if it is the context of a relationship, if it is in the context of sex on its own then the law would be broken.

So to make it clearer.....If a guy starts a relationship with a girl and has sex with her and supports her throughout the relationship then he is not breaking the law....IF he gives her a gift or money for the SOLE purpose of having sex with her, then he is breaking the law.

[chanchao]

> It is illegal in Thailand for a male to afford any gift

> to a girl under the age of 18

Oops.. I'll have to go into hiding then. I just did this yesterday, I'll surely be deported if anyone finds out!!

(--oh wait.. I missed that bit about 'with the intent to have sex' too..

> Cant write much on these forums without an argument.

Maybe it's you?

> What was the 'real' age of the girls? Several friends have

> talked before about 15 year old girls being offered for marriage

> in their village (not just to farangs either).

15 or 17 is pretty much the same age-group, legally. (Morally though (not to mention from a common-sense perspective) I'd say you'd have to be pretty fecked up to marry even a 17 year old let alone 15)

Heck, anything under 25 is iffy. Better to wait until they get desperate, say 25-30.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[sierra01]

So to make it clearer.....If a guy starts a relationship with a girl and has sex with her and supports her throughout the relationship then he is not breaking the law....IF he gives her a gift or money for the SOLE purpose of having sex with her, then he is breaking the law.

Does he need to support her before he can have sex with her? I hope not cos I'm in trouble otherwise! BTW my misses is 34.

[gburns57au]

So to make it clearer.....If a guy starts a relationship with a girl and has sex with her and supports her throughout the relationship then he is not breaking the law....IF he gives her a gift or money for the SOLE purpose of having sex with her, then he is breaking the law.

Does he need to support her before he can have sex with her?  I hope not cos I'm in trouble otherwise!  BTW my misses is 34.

I think you'll be right there mate.....by about 16 years......

Was referring to under 18 yo..

[Dragonman]

Dragonman is write here Mr Burns, the Thai justice sytem would not believe that a group of Thais had 'set up' a young girl of under the age of 18 with an old Farang just for friendship purposes.

Busted!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok.... you seem to be very knowledgeable about Thai Justice....you tell me exactly what they would believe....I am sure that many would like to hear your answer....oh and be prepared to be flamed a lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not worried about being flamed, after all I am Dragonman

If I was back in UK( and under similar laws), defending a client, I would of course put up the same arguments as you. There are of course, depending on the circumstances and the amount of money you have, times when the "relationship" defence may work in Thailand. The Courts have to be seen however to be following up on the Government's agreement to the "Convention on the rights of a child", where the child is defined as anyone under 18 years. If not, the United States would use "extraterritorial" laws to prosecute, whilst of course Australia and UK would not use such legislation unless the girl was under 16. Australia has however other State laws which are quite legal in Thailand

Ahh isn't the law interesting, and in fact only the judges are always right

[mraitchison]

Not to long ago I met a guy (teacher) who was really proud of the fact that the had just married an ex student who was 18 years old.

He being 50 thought that it was a great idea that in 10 years time he would be able to trade her in for an upgrade. Initially I thought he was joking but then I realised the guy was serious.

Now I don't want to stand in the way of love and all the chemical releases that you have in your brain but that just seems a bit wrong to me.

Sad thing is it is not the first time I have heard it in seriousness and I am sure it won't be the last.

[Dustoff]

What was the 'real' age of the girls? Several friends have talked before about 15 year old girls being offered for marriage in their village (not just to farangs either).

Strange society that we have chosen to live in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More like strange world if you choose to see things that way. In virtually every country, girls are pumping out babies right from the age of puberty. When the hormones become active, so do people. The US complains a lot about age but the AOC in Hawaii is fourteen and I have heard that several of the southern states also still have very low ages of consent. Since there are so many Asians in Hawaii, if they seriously enforced the fourteen rule, they would have to build lots more prisons.

Since older men/younger women unions happen SO much throughout the world, why is it seen as strange or unnatural? Laws do not create human nature, just legislate against it and I, for one, am against most morality legislation.

If someone very young is being manipulated, used or abused, hopefully there are people who will step in to assist. But there are as many differences in relationship situations as there are relationships and generalizations work only when they do not affect the innocent or those who are truly/mutually interested in a loving coupling.

I have been through my share of villages in my many years of visiting and living in Thailand and know that even very young girls have the dream of 'handsome kind falang take me away'. Even here in Chiang Mai, there is a 15 in a local mini-mart who almost pees herself whenever I come in and follows me around like a puppy, blushing every moment. I don't know the Thai word for married but surely she has seen me in there with my lady - not to mention that it is probably obvious that I am 65 years of age.

Want a really young girl? Indian women in many places will hand you a daughter for free right after birth! They regularly drop them off like unwanted kittens by the thousands at local temples. Sad, and certainly strange to we outsiders but it is 'natural' human behavior and there are reasons that this happens whether we agree with them or not...

[mraitchison]

Fair point.

This can follow onto the argument that as a society we have imposed the age of concent due to our developing moral ideas not to the fact that nature has allowed us to procreate from around the age of 10.

In our mind it is wrong to have a sexual relationship with a young girl or boy. However nature had other ideas but then nature didn't take into account the improvment in health care and life expectancy increasing.

[Dragonman]

What was the 'real' age of the girls? Several friends have talked before about 15 year old girls being offered for marriage in their village (not just to farangs either).

Strange society that we have chosen to live in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More like strange world if you choose to see things that way. In virtually every country, girls are pumping out babies right from the age of puberty. When the hormones become active, so do people. The US complains a lot about age but the AOC in Hawaii is fourteen and I have heard that several of the southern states also still have very low ages of consent. Since there are so many Asians in Hawaii, if they seriously enforced the fourteen rule, they would have to build lots more prisons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting point. State laws have the age of consent at 14 in some States, such as Hawaii ( if the guy is less than 5 years older). Yet Federal law allows guys to receive up to 20 years for offences in Thailand under extraterritorial powers.

It's what makes International Laws so easy to understand.

[gburns57au]

Dragonman is write here Mr Burns, the Thai justice sytem would not believe that a group of Thais had 'set up' a young girl of under the age of 18 with an old Farang just for friendship purposes.

Busted!

Ok.... you seem to be very knowledgeable about Thai Justice....you tell me exactly what they would believe....I am sure that many would like to hear your answer....oh and be prepared to be flamed a lot.

I'm not worried about being flamed, after all I am Dragonman

If I was back in UK( and under similar laws), defending a client, I would of course put up the same arguments as you. There are of course, depending on the circumstances and the amount of money you have, times when the "relationship" defence may work in Thailand. The Courts have to be seen however to be following up on the Government's agreement to the "Convention on the rights of a child", where the child is defined as anyone under 18 years. If not, the United States would use "extraterritorial" laws to prosecute, whilst of course Australia and UK would not use such legislation unless the girl was under 16. Australia has however other State laws which are quite legal in Thailand

Ahh isn't the law interesting, and in fact only the judges are always right

The question was aimed at Stevesuphan....

Most of what you write in you last post is correct, the Overseas underage sex law in Oz is set at 16yo at a Federal level....it applies to all states. There maybe some laws that are variable from state to state but they are not relevent to this topic.

The thing here is you wouldnt have a client to defend because under the law he has not committed a crime. The whole point of this law is to prevent child prostitution, not to prevent people from having relationships.

Ok lets put this in a clearer picture.....

A Thai guy of say 25yo dates a 17yo Thai girl for say 3 weeks, he promises to look after her, gives her parents some gifts, buys her a gold chain to please her, hoping to have sex with her, she agrees to have sex with him. Under yours and Stevesuphans perception of the law he is guilty of procuring a child under 18yo for the purposes of having sex.

Now a 34yo farang spends a month in the village and starts seeing a 17yo girl while he is there, he gives her family some money and buys her a gift, he promises to send her money every month and consent is given by her to begin a sexual relationship.

Where is the difference except for the ages and the nationality and probably the value of the gifts ???

[Dragonman]

Dragonman is write here Mr Burns, the Thai justice sytem would not believe that a group of Thais had 'set up' a young girl of under the age of 18 with an old Farang just for friendship purposes.

Busted!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok.... you seem to be very knowledgeable about Thai Justice....you tell me exactly what they would believe....I am sure that many would like to hear your answer....oh and be prepared to be flamed a lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not worried about being flamed, after all I am Dragonman

If I was back in UK( and under similar laws), defending a client, I would of course put up the same arguments as you. There are of course, depending on the circumstances and the amount of money you have, times when the "relationship" defence may work in Thailand. The Courts have to be seen however to be following up on the Government's agreement to the "Convention on the rights of a child", where the child is defined as anyone under 18 years. If not, the United States would use "extraterritorial" laws to prosecute, whilst of course Australia and UK would not use such legislation unless the girl was under 16. Australia has however other State laws which are quite legal in Thailand

Ahh isn't the law interesting, and in fact only the judges are always right

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question was aimed at Stevesuphan....

Most of what you write in you last post is correct, the Overseas underage sex law in Oz is set at 16yo at a Federal level....it applies to all states. There maybe some laws that are variable from state to state but they are not relevent to this topic.

The thing here is you wouldnt have a client to defend because under the law he has not committed a crime. The whole point of this law is to prevent child prostitution, not to prevent people from having relationships.

Ok lets put this in a clearer picture.....

A Thai guy of say 25yo dates a 17yo Thai girl for say 3 weeks, he promises to look after her, gives her parents some gifts, buys her a gold chain to please her, hoping to have sex with her, she agrees to have sex with him. Under yours and Stevesuphans perception of the law he is guilty of procuring a child under 18yo for the purposes of having sex.

Now a 34yo farang spends a month in the village and starts seeing a 17yo girl while he is there, he gives her family some money and buys her a gift, he promises to send her money every month and consent is given by her to begin a sexual relationship.

Where is the difference except for the ages and the nationality and probably the value of the gifts ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are spot on, there is no difference even under the Thai Constitution. However there are many differences in perception, especially from the media, but also with police and judges that farangs are here for only one thing. Without a jury system, and with pressure from "Organisations" to clean up their act, I would not really want to be in a position to be charged under the Act, even if I believed I was within the law. I find it more difficult to defend the case as the guy was introduced with financial elements in this case, than if it was a guy meeting a girl who he happened to fancy when visiting a friend. Financial transactions, although innocent, are linked too readily to human traffic nowadays.

Although I was not a criminal lawyer, lots of my colleagues wouldn't have made much money if interpretation of the law had not taken their client to Court. Why would the police believe the guy automatically. There are bad people out there,they have previously liked Thailand,and they lie.

[gburns57au]

The question was aimed at Stevesuphan....

Most of what you write in you last post is correct, the Overseas underage sex law in Oz is set at 16yo at a Federal level....it applies to all states. There maybe some laws that are variable from state to state but they are not relevent to this topic.

The thing here is you wouldnt have a client to defend because under the law he has not committed a crime. The whole point of this law is to prevent child prostitution, not to prevent people from having relationships.

Ok lets put this in a clearer picture.....

A Thai guy of say 25yo dates a 17yo Thai girl for say 3 weeks, he promises to look after her, gives her parents some gifts, buys her a gold chain to please her, hoping to have sex with her, she agrees to have sex with him. Under yours and Stevesuphans perception of the law he is guilty of procuring a child under 18yo for the purposes of having sex.

Now a 34yo farang spends a month in the village and starts seeing a 17yo girl while he is there, he gives her family some money and buys her a gift, he promises to send her money every month and consent is given by her to begin a sexual relationship.

Where is the difference except for the ages and the nationality and probably the value of the gifts ???

You are spot on, there is no difference even under the Thai Constitution. However there are many differences in perception, especially from the media, but also with police and judges that farangs are here for only one thing. Without a jury system, and with pressure from "Organisations" to clean up their act, I would not really want to be in a position to be charged under the Act, even if I believed I was within the law. I find it more difficult to defend the case as the guy was introduced with financial elements in this case, than if it was a guy meeting a girl who he happened to fancy when visiting a friend. Financial transactions, although innocent, are linked too readily to human traffic nowadays.

Although I was not a criminal lawyer, lots of my colleagues wouldn't have made much money if interpretation of the law had not taken their client to Court. Why would the police believe the guy automatically. There are bad people out there,they have previously liked Thailand,and they lie.

So, what you are saying is this, If a complaint is made then the police may charge you under their own interpretation of the law. This I would agree with

But I dont believe that it would happen, It would be unlikely that a complaint would be made. The family wouldnt complain, unless some serious mistreatment of the girl took place, why kill the golden goose before it lays the golden eggs. They would lose big face if they did that. Say the guy never kept his promises and didnt pursue the relationship after leaving, it is more than likely to be downplayed and the original guy who took his mates there may cop some grief but the family know that there is always a risk of this happening.

The Thai legal system while it has its problems is really quite efficient, as are the police. Unless the guy made some bad enemies in a short time, it would be unlikely to proceed beyond investigation.

I know one can never say never, but in this situation the chances of being charged let alone prosecuted would be par to being hit by a boomerang in Iceland.

Are we done now ???

[Stephen Cleary]

Good points being made here.

It may suck but in practice in Thailand, once you are arrested, you are guilty before proven innocent.

You can even be arrested in Thailand just for 'intent' even though there is no substantial proof.

An example of this is being arrested and fined for 'gambling' (in the form of playing cards). If the police bust you playing cards they can take you down the station and fine you even though no evidence of money was found. Tell the pol. captain on duty that you were just playing for fun and he can turn around and say 'I dont believe you'. Not needing to get cheeky with the guy you end up just paying the fine.

This can happen in the situation of an older man befriending a young girl. As gburns mentioned 'it probably wouldn't happen' but if a family member, or an enemy 'grassed upon you' you could be in serious trouble. It would be your job to prove that there was no 'intent'. Difficult.

And finally, play safe - don't risk it. Make sure your potential darling is above the age of 18.

[rishi]

... in Thailand, once you are arrested, you are guilty before proven innocent. You can even be arrested in Thailand just for 'intent' even though there is no substantial proof...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes! ... And I believe that, a group of 5 elderly foreigners - having no previous Thailand related record - heading straight for some remote village, seeking relationship with very young girls, to whom they are incapable of communicating --- will have a very, very hard time proving to any police officer, in any country, that they were just looking for a soulmate and didn't have anything related to sex on their minds.

[opothai]

why on earth take five friend to meet thai brides,

asking for head aches if you ask me.

i would recommend thai women as good wives and lots of fun but would definately not attemt to make any sort of business out of it. and coming from the same village = problems all round