Selling Thai Brides

[Joey Boy]

can you get flights from Bangkok to Nongbaulamphu, its sounds like a nice weekend retreat

[Dustoff]

Don't let the comments on these threads shake you too much. You must remember, the majority of these men are married in THAILAND; a corpse with a brain tumor and every reject the world over can come to Thailand and find a wife.

Ah, yes.. Now THERE is the very reason that I have found so much happiness here in LOS!

That most Thais would never think to be so incredibly rude and degrading of women of another culture!

How fortunate am I.. Finally a free, loving, cooperative relationship with an intelligent, gentle Thai woman who has no interest in competition - a woman who delights in a man who offers her the freedom to explore her own education and dreams and does not even have a brain tumor and is something way more than a corpse!

I let her read your post;

"Poor soul", says she...

Indeed...

Edited January 6, 2006 by Dustoff

[kat]

Post your picture and then we can decide who is the poor soul.

By the way, I have said nothing degrading about Thai women here.* Are either of you in doubt that it is comparatively very easy for almost every man that steps off the plane to find a mate here? If that's the case, your problem is not with me.

And this comment warms my very "poor" soul: "That most Thais would never think to be so incredibly rude and degrading of women of another culture!"

Oh dear, oh my

*you misused my quote

Edited January 6, 2006 by kat

[BKK Traveler]

Post your picture and then we can decide who is the poor soul.

By the way, I have said nothing degrading about Thai women here.* Are either of you in doubt that it is comparatively very easy for almost every man that steps off the plane to find a mate here? If that's the case, your problem is not with me.

And this comment warms my very "poor" soul: "That most Thais would never think to be so incredibly rude and degrading of women of another culture!"

Oh dear, oh my

*you misused my quote

I think Dustoff and his wife found your comments degrading of Thai women because you came off sounding like Thai women somehow have no tastes in men when compared to western women.

I think your comments are a bit of an overstatement. There are certainly some men in this world who would find it difficult to find a wife anywhere, whether Thailand, their own country, or the poorest country on earth. If the man is an obvious jerk, abusive, a slob, no brain, drug addict, alcholic, and has no money, no woman is going to want him, unless perhaps she mistakenly thinks she can use him to immigrate to his country.

Now if the man has money, then he can certainly find a gold digger in Thailand who would marry him regardless of his other qualities. But that is true of any country in the world. Thailand does not have a monopoly on gold diggers. It's only a matter of how much money is considered adequate for a Thai gold digger vs. another countries gold digger.

Very old western men have absolutely no problem finding a young model in their own country, provided one thing - they have money. Look at Hugh Hefner. I saw him recently in an interview on TV and I think he's 70 or something now and looks absolutely horrible. If it wasn't for his money, he might be a man you would classify as a loser. Yet he has all the young 20ish models he wants. The only difference in Thailand is that you don't need to have Hugh Hefner's fortune to find such a model. You need money but not as much.

If you eliminate the gold diggers who are only after a man's money, then if a man is a complete loser (not financially but otherwise), then he is going to be rejected just as easily in Thailand as he is in his own country.

Now if by loser you mean a man who just has an average income, or is middle age or more, then yes, it's probably easier for him to find a wife in Thailand compared to his own country. Probably not impossible in his home country to find a wife, but she would not be of the same caliber or age as a wife in Thailand.

So please define a little more what you mean by a loser. What combination of lack of money, age, looks, or other factors constitutes a loser in your mind? But based on your comment to Dustoff, "Post your picture and then we can decide who is the poor soul." I think I already know what your answer will be. It sounds like you can judge a loser just based on their picture, so it must be age and/or looks that defines a loser in your book. If a man is much older than you, or isn't some handsome fit model type, then I guess you'd consider him a loser. If so, then you may be right. Thai women probably do look a little more carefully at the heart than western women, such as yourself, do and are more likely to accept a man older than them or not so handsome.

[kat]

BKK Travel:

I think you first used the term loser on this thread. But at any rate, you are right, I do think there are certain types who define the term. For me, the loser types are men who obviously cannot handle modern relationships with modern women, or do not fare very well in the romantic/dating stakes, because women are no longer economically dependent. Then they come to Thailand and other economically disadvantaged countries, and berate Western women because they can suddenly find "dates". There is a reason for this, and it is largely economic. I don't disagree with much of what you stated. I also don't fault some of the men who come here for those reasons, when they are honest. I have male friends in Thailand who are in similar relationships, but they do not berate or villify Western women. However, I think a lot of the "traditional" and "rescue" explanations where women don't "compete" with men are simply about finding a woman that does not threaten their fragile male egos. Obviously, some are more fragile than others, because most of the men that stay in Western countries are attracted to that independence. But here in Thailand, all the men love to say that this is a lie, or a disadvantage of not being able to travel, and that all women look for a father figure. That is a fantasy that most older, transplanted men in Asia like to believe.

I agree with some of the things you say, to an extent. However, there is no doubt that financial and economic security as a factor in selectiong a mate is a much more widespread and prominent requirement here than in the West. This is not a controversial statment; this is a cultural and undeniable fact. So, in my view, the term gold digger may not be the same cultural translation.

The examples that you gave about other older men in the West may be true to an extent, but it is not the norm as it is here. It is not a norm in the West for girls to regularly marry men 15-30 years their senior. And there is a reason for this, and it is not the cult of the youth.

*edit - and no, I don't judge a man by looks alone. But as soon as a woman challenges a condescending remark here, she is suddenly a "spinster, ugly, damaged" etc. So, it is only natural - his wife allegedly calls me a "poor soul" - and I say, show me what you have to sleep with every night to be a " woman who delights in a man who offers her the freedom to explore her own education and dreams" blah, blah, blah, and then we can properly compare our gains and losses, lol. Because, I don't need a man to offer me freedom, I need a man who can offer me sexual, emotional, and spiritual fulfillment.

Edited January 6, 2006 by kat

[kat]

And I want to add one more point. You use Hugh Hefner as an example. BKK's QUOTE:

"Very old western men have absolutely no problem finding a young model in their own country, provided one thing - they have money. Look at Hugh Hefner. I saw him recently in an interview on TV and I think he's 70 or something now and looks absolutely horrible. If it wasn't for his money, he might be a man you would classify as a loser. Yet he has all the young 20ish models he wants. " END QUOTE

Look at the women that Hugh Hefner "has". Do you really think he can get "any" woman in her 20s? The women who swarm around him are on his bankroll, and they are largely women that have wholly defined themselves according to a porn mogul's standards. This is definitely not an example for most self-respecting, intelligent women, and for the most part, not even beautiful women. They are plastic, absurd, barbie doll clones.

Edited January 6, 2006 by kat

[BKK Traveler]

That was a very good reply. Nice to see a Western woman's point of view on these topics. I agree with a lot of what you say, but also disagree on some.

I think you first used the term loser on this thread. But at any rate, you are right, I do think there are certain types who define the term.

Sorry, I misquoted you. You used the term "reject", and I for some reason inadvertently changed it to "loser" in my reply. But I think the meaning is almost the same and you seem to agree with the term "loser" as well.

Your definition of a loser is very interesting, "the loser types are men who obviously cannot handle modern relationships with modern women." I'm sure some men cannot handle such a relationship, but many others just don't want to, myself included. I'm sure that if I had no options I would have a good chance at making a "modern relationship" work, but I have no desire to as I have plenty of options for what to me is a more preferable relationship - the traditional relationship. And just because a man has experienced a failed relationship in the past doesn't mean he couldn't handle the relationship. The breakup of a relationship is very rarely just one person's fault, but rather the fault of both parties. So trying to identify men who can't handle these relationships is difficult at best, unless the man openly states that he is incapable of having such a relationship. So I wonder how you can identify these losers?

I totally agree with you that the economics play a big, if not the biggest reason in men coming to Thailand is search of a mate. Everyone wants to get the best possible partner they can. They probably have at least made some sort of a mental list of qualities they would like, but most people are smart enough to realize they can never find a perfect mate that matches all the qualities they are searching for. So everyone finding a mate is in need of making some tradeoffs. You need to accept someone who isn't up to par on some points, but hopefully is a good match for most of the list and ranks as high as possible on the most important points. This process of trying to find the best possible mate goes on with both the male and female. And for the female in Thailand looking for a mate, having a sense of security in her life is probably a big factor, and most farang males can easily supply her with that (financial) security. For many, but certainly not all Thai females, she probably is not likely to find a Thai man who can offer her the amount of security she would like. So if she thinks she can find a farang who is decent and at least a fair match to what she's looking for, then the fact that he can supply her with the financial security she needs immediately puts him up at the top of the list of potential marriage partners. For a financially independent Thai woman, I doubt that there would be so much of an attraction to a foreigner, though still maybe some if she didn't want to marry down economically and finding a Thai man of equal or higher economic standing might not be so easy due to a lot of competition. And farang men know that non-financially independent Thai women are on the lookout for them, so they are naturally attracted to looking for Thai women because they know they'll be much more likely to find a mate that's a good match for their list compared with looking for a Western woman to match their list. The Western man gets what he wants - be it beauty, youth, attractive body, traditional, or whatever, and the Thai lady gets what she wants - financial security, and whatever else. So it's an apparent win-win situation for both parties involved - win-win meaning each side thinks they are getting a much more desireable mate than they could likely get from a mate from own country. Of course the actual outcome of the relationship isn't guaranteed to be successful.

I think anyone who tries to deny that economics isn't a major factor in mate selection between Thai women and farang men is just not able to see the simple reality of the situation. And I agree with you that there is no need to berate Western women. Probably a lot of men searching for a Thai woman have already had a bad experience with a Western woman and have a lot of resentment and generalize too much in assuming that all Western women are the same as his ex. Out of bitterness towards their ex, they berate all Western women. I think this is unfair and illogical, though I understand why they do it. I do not think this problem is unique to Western women though. If a man had a bad experience with a Thai woman, he may berate them and swear he'll never again get involved with another one because they are all gold diggers, liars, or whatever negative quality he sees in his ex-Thai wife/gf. And some women do the same thing about their bad experiences with men. So don't take it personally when men do that. You are likely to come across Western men berating Western women more often, but rest assured there are men and women all over the world berating certain classifications of the opposite sex due to their negative experiences and consequential over generalization.

However, I think a lot of the "traditional" and "rescue" explanations where women don't "compete" with men are simply about finding a woman that does not threaten their fragile male egos.

Certainly there are some men with fragile egos that are in Thailand looking for a woman that doesn't threaten them, but I think maybe you overestimate how many there are. For many men, it's likely that they don't feel threatened by a Western woman, but rather just find it too much work to make a relationship work with such women and think it is easier to be in a relationship with a Thai lady. Of course no relationship is easy, but many men at least feel that a relationship with a Thai lady will be easier and more comfortable.

Obviously, some are more fragile than others, because most of the men that stay in Western countries are attracted to that independence. But here in Thailand, all the men love to say that this is a lie, or a disadvantage of not being able to travel, and that all women look for a father figure. That is a fantasy that most older, transplanted men in Asia like to believe.

Again, I think maybe you overestimate the number of men like that. The men you see in the Western world accept independence in women, but that doesn't necessary translate into men who are attracted to it. I was all set to be one of those accepting men until I got derailed moving to Asia and found a whole new world that was more to my liking. I think there are a huge number of men who would be attracted to a dependent woman, many more than you likely would imagine. But for one reason or another they have no opportunity or cannot accept a woman from another country. The reasons may be lack of travel, but also could be not wanting someone from another race, culture, religion, etc. It could be that such a woman wouldn't be accepted by his family and/or friends. It could be that it's just too difficult and takes too much time for him to bring a wife back to his home country. It could be that he needs to spend a lot of time with a woman before deciding if she's the one but can't get enough time off of work to go to another country to visit her. So don't to quickly jump to the conclusion that most men living in Western countries are attracted to independent women. Even if they say they are, they may only be telling you what you want to hear. As to men thinking "that all women look for a father figure", I haven't come across that much myself, and would totally disagree with anyone suggesting that is the case.

I agree with some of the things you say, to an extent. However, there is no doubt that financial and economic security as a factor in selectiong a mate is a much more widespread and prominent requirement here than in the West. This is not a controversial statment; this is a cultural and undeniable fact. So, in my view, the term gold digger may not be the same cultural translation.

The examples that you gave about other older men in the West may be true to an extent, but it is not the norm as it is here. It is not a norm in the West for girls to regularly marry men 15-30 years their senior. And there is a reason for this, and it is not the cult of the youth.

I agree with you on these points. There are women in all countries that enter into a relationship only for money with very little or no concern for anything else and have no real love for the man they are with, but simply want to get his money. This is what I would call a gold digger. They may look and act quite differently in different cultures, and due to differing economic conditions there may be more of them in Thailand than there are in the West, but this type of woman certainly exists in every country.

Your point about it not being the norm for Western youth to marry someone much older certainly is very valid and would tend to put a lot of peer pressure on a young girl to dissuade her from marrying a man much older for fear of being branded with some derogatory label. Whereas in Thailand there isn't so much of a negative image involved for a young woman to marry an older man, and may in fact be pressure put on her from her family to do so.

Look at the women that Hugh Hefner "has". Do you really think he can get "any" woman in her 20s? The women who swarm around him are on his bankroll, and they are largely women that have wholly defined themselves according to a porn mogul's standards. This is definitely not an example for most self-respecting, intelligent women, and for the most part, not even beautiful women. They are plastic, absurd, barbie doll clones.

I totally agree with you. My point was that a "loser" (my definition of a loser, not yours) can find a woman even in the West as long as he has money. For sure he cannot find "any woman in her 20's", but he can certainly find "a" or "some" women in her 20's. And likewise in Thailand there are some women who would gladly join up with such a man, but there are many self-respecting, intelligent Thai women who would not. So to say "every reject the world over can come to Thailand and find a wife" is not a fair statement because that same reject could also find a wife back home. Maybe it wouldn't be as easy, but he could still find one if he looked enough.

*edit - and no, I don't judge a man by looks alone. But as soon as a woman challenges a condescending remark here, she is suddenly a "spinster, ugly, damaged" etc. So, it is only natural - his wife allegedly calls me a "poor soul" - and I say, show me what you have to sleep with every night to be a " woman who delights in a man who offers her the freedom to explore her own education and dreams" blah, blah, blah, and then we can properly compare our gains and losses, lol. Because, I don't need a man to offer me freedom, I need a man who can offer me sexual, emotional, and spiritual fulfillment.

In summary, you don't like it when Western men berate Western women, but I think some people would interpret your words ("a corpse with a brain tumor and every reject the world over can come to Thailand and find a wife.") as berating Thai women, so perhaps a more careful choice of words or a more detailed explanation in the future might be avoid such negative reactions. If she took those words to mean the same as what I did, then I think she was well within her right to come back with the remark she did.

[Glauka]

QUOTE(Dustoff @ 2005-12-10 23:43:13)

QUOTE(seonai @ 2005-12-10 22:51:23)

so is it true then that a lot of men from Europe or the US prefer to come to Asia and choose a bride rather than go through the 'normal' process of finding a girlfriend in their homeland???? Just curious.

That "normal process" faded away with the invention of the airplane;

not to mention that this entire planet is our "homeland".

I can only speak for myself of course but I did not come here to "choose a bride" but to spend the rest of my life in a country that soothes my soul. And here, quite unexpectedly, I found my soulmate.

Your response would seem to indicate that you are a Western woman? Just curious about what it is about Asian women that wins the hearts of so many "men from Europe or the US"?

Gentleness, grace, politeness, lack of beligerence while still able to express themselves, a willingness to give at least as much as they receive...

For instance, most Asian women would never be rude enough to propose your obviously biased questions...Ouch.. I did not mean that to be as unkind as it sounds, but..

Those of us who came to Thailand and fell in love are something less than "normal"?

Thanks but, I don't think so...

this was my reply to your kind post

A gentleman will not be so rude as suggest that a western woman lack those things mention above...

you may did not mean to be unkind...but you were...

Glauka--a western woman who thinks that she is a gentle, polite woman, who is willing to give as much as she recieve and who will not lack belligerence against certain attitude or matters

talking about degrading women from other cultures...

bash me dustoff if you want but I think you should not take this line of arguments

Edited January 6, 2006 by Glauka

[Glauka]

that´s why generalization are not so good...

I had bad experience with men, women from different places...but i try not to make a generalization so that i don´t include everybody...

dustoff berate western women in some other thread...so i think his post here is very cheeky...also you did not choose the right words in some other post that´s why i started a new topic...

Those generalization just show how unfair you are...and as a western woman sometimes i feel insulted...i should not and should not care...but i find it too unfair that you talk like that about us...

what happen if you have bad experience in Thailand? are you gonna go to africa and the berate about thai and western woman?

people is people...we are 6 billion right now and you are so cheeky as to berate a whole woman population...well i can understand why you do it...but that do not excuse your comments whatsoever...

you want a more traditional relationship...fair enough...

but to thank god for have places like thailand were you can find such a relationship because you have money and say that is make you sick to hear a western woman said" i don´t want a man to support me" is both unfair and mean...

and what is worse you are givind and image about us that is untrue and unfair...so please sit down and think before posting things like this.

Don't let the comments on these threads shake you too much. You must remember, the majority of these men are married in THAILAND; a corpse with a brain tumor and every reject the world over can come to Thailand and find a wife.

Ah, yes.. Now THERE is the very reason that I have found so much happiness here in LOS!

That most Thais would never think to be so incredibly rude and degrading of women of another culture!

How fortunate am I.. Finally a free, loving, cooperative relationship with an intelligent, gentle Thai woman who has no interest in competition - a woman who delights in a man who offers her the freedom to explore her own education and dreams and does not even have a brain tumor and is something way more than a corpse!

I let her read your post;

"Poor soul", says she...

Indeed...

some thai woman will not be so incredible rude and will not degrade woman of other culture because some husband will do it for them...

[Jersey_UK]

You are a thai girl who has been around the block once or twice..where do you stand the chance of getting a favorable marriage deal???????

.........and then she met me although not yet married and perhaps not "favourable"

I actually like women with a bit of "history" - I have no idea <deleted> I would do with an virgin, and an 18 yo would BORE me rigid after 5 minutes in Farangland, let alone the average Thai Gal, 25 going on 7.

Having said all that I am in the camp of whatever "floats yer boat" really. Bloke of 60 wants to get hitched to an 18yo then fair enough, it might surprise some folk that these "drunken old farts" are usually quite aware of the basis of the relationship and it's limitations, but have accepted the compromise.

As has been pointed out to me a few times:-

"at least I know what I am getting"

"I know she will probably b#gger off at some point, but I will enjoy it whilst it lasts"

"the last wife b#ggered off with a lot of my money and she wasn't half as good looking and for the last 10 years did not even pretend to like me"

"I am not going to be sh#gging an older woman now, so if I am going for a younger one it might as well be near the extreme"

"just look at her t#ts"

I decided to go for the quiet life................and then met the Missus

Edited January 6, 2006 by Jersey_UK

[RamdomChances]

I don't need a man to offer me freedom, I need a man who can offer me sexual, emotional, and spiritual fulfillment.

I don't suppose 1 out of 3 would be anygood for you would it ?

[BKK Traveler]

that´s why generalization are not so good...

I had bad experience with men, women from different places...but i try not to make a generalization so that i don´t include everybody...

dustoff berate western women in some other thread...so i think his post here is very cheeky...also you did not choose the right words in some other post that´s why i started a new topic...

Those generalization just show how unfair you are...and as a western woman sometimes i feel insulted...i should not and should not care...but i find it too unfair that you talk like that about us...

what happen if you have bad experience in Thailand? are you gonna go to africa and the berate about thai and western woman?

people is people...we are 6 billion right now and you are so cheeky as to berate a whole woman population...well i can understand why you do it...but that do not excuse your comments whatsoever...

you want a more traditional relationship...fair enough...

but to thank god for have places like thailand were you can find such a relationship because you have money and say that is make you sick to hear a western woman said" i don´t want a man to support me" is both unfair and mean...

and what is worse you are givind and image about us that is untrue and unfair...so please sit down and think before posting things like this.

Based on the context, I'm guessing that you were talking to me, even though you didn't specifically mention me. I think you completely misunderstood my words, let me explain better.

I did not and do not berate any group of women. I only said that some men do have bad experiences and then they do over generalize about the entire group of women and then they do berate that group of women. Some men do it, and I said they do it unfairly, but not me. I only understand why they are doing it, but I don't agree that they should be doing it or that it is logical to generalize so much about an entire group of people.

Back in the other thread that got closed, the thing that "made me sick" was the suggestion that it is wrong that we should give financial support to our families, including our families back home in western countries. My mother depended on what I and my siblings did to support her when my father left and refused to support her. The suggestion that someone should just ignore their own families financial need is what made me sick, not Western women saying they don't want a man to support them. Western women are free to say and do whatever they want with regard to financial independence. I quoted comments from different posters in that original thread, but didn't specifically say which comment was the one that made me sick because I thought it was clear to what it was referring to. Sorry for not making it clearer to begin with as maybe then you would have taken my comments much differently from the start.

[Kupal]

Impressive all those long msgs..... Get back to reality..... we're talking business here..... both parties are happy and if passersby are discussed..... they should just keep-on walking..... drunk or not

[kat]

That was a very good reply. Nice to see a Western woman's point of view on these topics. I agree with a lot of what you say, but also disagree on some.

In summary, you don't like it when Western men berate Western women, but I think some people would interpret your words ("a corpse with a brain tumor and every reject the world over can come to Thailand and find a wife.") as berating Thai women, so perhaps a more careful choice of words or a more detailed explanation in the future might be avoid such negative reactions. If she took those words to mean the same as what I did, then I think she was well within her right to come back with the remark she did.

Hi. I've only read up to this last post above (*post 97), because I am suffering from post fatigue. I will read it more in full and respond again.

In the meantime, BKK Traveler, I have the sense that you are a very nice man. I don't think I would really have a problem with you. As you said, there are things that we may disagree on, but it is more a matter of experience than denial. I think that I could sit down and talk with you, despite our differences. I feel that way about my male friends in Thailand who also have Thai wives. It's because I don't have a problem with men who say they want a traditional relationship. Everyone has their preferences. I have a problem with denial and deflection (berating, etc.), because it is not honest.

As for my comment above, which you aruge could be construed as berating Thai women, I disagree. I think it was a comment against smug men who like to rationalize that women who do not marry are rejects. I stand by my comment, because it is not a thoughtless or offhand one. It is a comment that has stemmed from much observation, antedotal evidence, and research. It is in fact, true - men who come to Thailand meet women, girlfriends, and spouses very, very easily. I'm sorry if this pains people, but I will never back off from making a factual statement. If this is a comment that is unpleasant for some people to face, then perhaps they need to look at the source and not the messenger; I certainly have, and I know it's a lot more complicated than simply berating Thai women.

*edit

Edited January 7, 2006 by kat

[Dustoff]

...I have a problem with denial and deflection (berating, etc.), because it is not honest.

Actually it is very honest much of the time and I respect that you actually believe what you say when you deny, deflect and berate.

The problem is that most people (if I may use a generalization) are only comfortable with generalizations if they are not applied to them. My post was an intentional, and successful, test of this fact. You hurl generalizaion after generalization about men and Thai women (thoroughly researched facts ONLY of course) then complain about anyone who may generate a generalization about you and your attitudes.

Granted, I do occasionally use generalizations even tho, like you, I am not particularly fond of them. In a past thread that you mentioned (you caught me), I made a comment about American/Western women in relation to divorces. I would however tend to stand by that comment after my ten years of working in American divorce courts where the viciousness and vindictiveness of women are pure legend - ask almost any American male who has been through it.. And this was Hawaii where the population is very varied so I was talking about 'westernized' women, not necessarily born and bred 'Western Woman'.

There is a popular joke that goes something like, "The basic Barbie Doll costs $9.95 while Divorced Barbie costs $99.95. That is because Divorced Barbie comes with Ken's car, Ken's house, Ken's retirement, Ken's children, Ken's stocks/bonds/bank accounts, a huge percentage of Ken's future earnings, and one alcohol-pickled testicle for her mantle..."

I apologize if I offended you. And PLEASE know that my wife did NOT make the remark, "Poor soul" in a deragatory manner in spite of how you choose to interpret it. Her impression was that you are suffering from some past pains, however real or imagined on her part, and she felt very real compassion and pity.

Need a pic of me? Yeah, right! I have never seen it when I look in the mirror but have always been told that I am handsome and even at 65 years of age, "Silver Fox" seems to be my nickname among my women friends. And I really DO like women! I grew up with my mom who was a single parent and she endowed me with true values and taught me to respect not only women but my own female side. It is not women that I challenge so much as arrogance and belligerence.

Got some?

It has been my experience over 40 years of constantly visiting and living in Thailand (among many other countries) that Thai women have it far more together than Thai men. My prejudice or a generalization? Possibly, even likely but ya know, some generalizations work otherwise they wouldn't be used so often.

Above all, I wish you happiness and will in the future try not to test your beliefs...

Edited January 8, 2006 by Dustoff

[Misplaced]

And I want to add one more point. You use Hugh Hefner as an example. BKK's QUOTE:

This is definitely not an example for most self-respecting, intelligent women, and for the most part, not even beautiful women. They are plastic, absurd, barbie doll clones.

I will have to step in and disagree, Mrs February 2005 was a college graduate and natural and she was definitely beautiful

[kat]

And I want to add one more point. You use Hugh Hefner as an example. BKK's QUOTE:

This is definitely not an example for most self-respecting, intelligent women, and for the most part, not even beautiful women. They are plastic, absurd, barbie doll clones.

I will have to step in and disagree, Mrs February 2005 was a college graduate and natural and she was definitely beautiful

Yeah, I'm sure she probably was. There are a lot of different women that have posed for playboy. But I was referring to the women that Hugh Hefner supposedly has for "personal use", like those blond, vacant, post-surgery chicks that he usually has swarming around him.

[kat]

...I have a problem with denial and deflection (berating, etc.), because it is not honest.

Actually it is very honest much of the time and I respect that you actually believe what you say when you deny, deflect and berate.

The problem is that most people (if I may use a generalization) are only comfortable with generalizations if they are not applied to them. My post was an intentional, and successful, test of this fact. You hurl generalizaion after generalization about men and Thai women (thoroughly researched facts ONLY of course) then complain about anyone who may generate a generalization about you and your attitudes.

Granted, I do occasionally use generalizations even tho, like you, I am not particularly fond of them. In a past thread that you mentioned (you caught me), I made a comment about American/Western women in relation to divorces. I would however tend to stand by that comment after my ten years of working in American divorce courts where the viciousness and vindictiveness of women are pure legend - ask almost any American male who has been through it.. And this was Hawaii where the population is very varied so I was talking about 'westernized' women, not necessarily born and bred 'Western Woman'.

There is a popular joke that goes something like, "The basic Barbie Doll costs $9.95 while Divorced Barbie costs $99.95. That is because Divorced Barbie comes with Ken's car, Ken's house, Ken's retirement, Ken's children, Ken's stocks/bonds/bank accounts, a huge percentage of Ken's future earnings, and one alcohol-pickled testicle for her mantle..."

I apologize if I offended you. And PLEASE know that my wife did NOT make the remark, "Poor soul" in a deragatory manner in spite of how you choose to interpret it. Her impression was that you are suffering from some past pains, however real or imagined on her part, and she felt very real compassion and pity.

Need a pic of me? Yeah, right! I have never seen it when I look in the mirror but have always been told that I am handsome and even at 65 years of age, "Silver Fox" seems to be my nickname among my women friends. And I really DO like women! I grew up with my mom who was a single parent and she endowed me with true values and taught me to respect not only women but my own female side. It is not women that I challenge so much as arrogance and belligerence.

Got some?

It has been my experience over 40 years of constantly visiting and living in Thailand (among many other countries) that Thai women have it far more together than Thai men. My prejudice or a generalization? Possibly, even likely but ya know, some generalizations work otherwise they wouldn't be used so often.

Above all, I wish you happiness and will in the future try not to test your beliefs...

Dustoff, or uhm, Silverfox

Monsoon season in Thailand is from mid-May to mid-December; Traffic is very bad in Bangkok, and there are high fatality rates throughout Thailand, some areas more severe than others; There are abandonded dogs throughout Thailand; Many dogs are docile, but some attack when in a pack; some people are dog lovers, and some catlovers, but a proportion of these people love both dogs and cats ......

[wiki256]

education will help...

[kat]

Indeed, it does.

[Glauka]

The problem is that most people (if I may use a generalization) are only comfortable with generalizations if they are not applied to them. My post was an intentional, and successful, test of this fact. You hurl generalizaion after generalization about men and Thai women (thoroughly researched facts ONLY of course) then complain about anyone who may generate a generalization about you and your attitudes.

I don´t know if you refer to my post or Kat because it seems that you mixed them up.

Of course! but getting annoyed by a generalization and tell it so, shows to others how wrong they´ve been doing such generalization...(i include myself-i have learnt that generalizations are not good by making them)

this is the way you learn...

for instance, the other day olc croc post that he was fed up with the fact that being an old farang was too much associated with being a pervert in Thailand( or something like that). Because I am not old i didn´t notice it ...but after old croc mentioned I though over and actually he was right...and IMHO is not fair.

When you say "you hurl generalization after generalization about men and thai women" i don´t know if you refer to me or kat. But I think I don´t do that too often, maybe sometimes.

Granted, I do occasionally use generalizations even tho, like you, I am not particularly fond of them. In a past thread that you mentioned (you caught me), I made a comment about American/Western women in relation to divorces. I would however tend to stand by that comment after my ten years of working in American divorce courts where the viciousness and vindictiveness of women are pure legend - ask almost any American male who has been through it.. And this was Hawaii where the population is very varied so I was talking about 'westernized' women, not necessarily born and bred 'Western Woman'.

IMHO The most dishonest generalizations comes from oneself experience and resentement...I have sometimes done that (particularly with men and egyptians) and i think I am not fair...

There is a popular joke that goes something like, "The basic Barbie Doll costs $9.95 while Divorced Barbie costs $99.95. That is because Divorced Barbie comes with Ken's car, Ken's house, Ken's retirement, Ken's children, Ken's stocks/bonds/bank accounts, a huge percentage of Ken's future earnings, and one alcohol-pickled testicle for her mantle..."

Need a pic of me? Yeah, right! I have never seen it when I look in the mirror but have always been told that I am handsome and even at 65 years of age, "Silver Fox" seems to be my nickname among my women friends. And I really DO like women! I grew up with my mom who was a single parent and she endowed me with true values and taught me to respect not only women but my own female side. It is not women that I challenge so much as arrogance and belligerence.

you see that´s a good generalization...which i cannot disagree until i see you picture...

Got some?

belligerence yes I may have some if i think something is not fair...I am not sure the if I understand very well the meaning of the word...but i like to disscuss matters because that is the way I learn many nice things (like now!)

arrogance...i hope I don´t have but i think someone else will notice better if I have some...

it has been my experience over 40 years of constantly visiting and living in Thailand (among many other countries) that Thai women have it far more together than Thai men. My prejudice or a generalization? Possibly, even likely but ya know, some generalizations work otherwise they wouldn't be used so often.

if some generalization are used often...is because they are used among certain individual in the population who have some similar characteristics and experience...that´s why people that not belong to that bunch will disagree with you...again too broad generalization...

Above all, I wish you happiness and will in the future try not to test your beliefs...

Again I don´t know if such sentence is for me or kat...but I am going to be cheeky and assume that is for us both so.... I wish you also happiness....

Edited January 8, 2006 by Glauka

[Dustoff]

Again I don´t know if such sentence is for me or kat...but I am going to be cheeky and assume that is for us both so.... I wish you also happiness....

Yup, I did, I mixed two posters..

Ah well, it must have been past my naptime.

Indeed, the wishes apply to you both and everyone else on here witnessing my embarrassment.