Trayvon Martin Shooter Released On $150,000 Bond

[Colin Yai]

Here is what a brilliant black man has to say on the subject:

"Whatever the ultimate outcome of the case against George Zimmerman for his shooting of Trayvon Martin, what has happened already is enough to turn the stomach of anyone who believes in either truth or justice.

An amazing proportion of the media has given us a painful demonstration of the thinking — and lack of thinking — that prevailed back in the days of the old Jim Crow South, where complexion counted more than facts in determining how people were treated."

Trayvon Case Reveals a Racist Media

Thanks for the very informative link in your post #27 UG ,which could well be totally ignored by those who's minds are already made up ,and whatever evidence is brought to bear which contrasts starkly with their line of thought on the tragic case will of course be dismissed out of hand. Edited April 25, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Jingthing]

I'm happy to accept ANY verdict of the jury (or a plea bargain situation). The question is, will right wing Americans accept a guilty verdict. Fair minded Americans including Obama were NOT willing to accept the shooter not facing the justice system at all for this killing.

BTW, this "debate" is just going around in a predictable endless loop. What's the point of it until there is any further news and/or the trial which isn't until some time in 2013?

Edited April 25, 2012 by Jingthing

[kerryk]

I'm happy to accept ANY verdict of the jury (or a plea bargain situation). The question is, will right wing Americans accept a guilty verdict. Fair minded Americans including Obama were NOT willing to accept the shooter not facing the justice system at all for this killing.

BTW, this "debate" is just going around in a predictable endless loop. What's the point of it until there is any further news and/or the trial which isn't until some time in 2013?

Speaking of accepting verdicts was it it right wing Americans that didn't accept the verdict and cause the Los Angles riots (50 dead, 4000 injured 1 billion dollars damage) in 1992?

[chuckd]

I'm happy to accept ANY verdict of the jury (or a plea bargain situation). The question is, will right wing Americans accept a guilty verdict. Fair minded Americans including Obama were NOT willing to accept the shooter not facing the justice system at all for this killing.

BTW, this "debate" is just going around in a predictable endless loop. What's the point of it until there is any further news and/or the trial which isn't until some time in 2013?

I knew what the score was with the "white Hispanic" tag as soon as I saw Sharpton, Jackson, Obama, Spike Lee, the Black Panthers et al yowling about lack of justice within minutes of the original release of Zimmerman.

None of them had a clue about the events of that night other than the fact that a Peruvian American with a white father had shot a black man, and that fact alone could be ratcheted up into a white-on-black crime with the liberal media trailing along in the slimy aftermath.

Guess what? Their plan worked and has further divided the American conscience.

[Jingthing]

I'm happy to accept ANY verdict of the jury (or a plea bargain situation). The question is, will right wing Americans accept a guilty verdict. Fair minded Americans including Obama were NOT willing to accept the shooter not facing the justice system at all for this killing.

BTW, this "debate" is just going around in a predictable endless loop. What's the point of it until there is any further news and/or the trial which isn't until some time in 2013?

Speaking of accepting verdicts was it it right wing Americans that didn't accept the verdict and cause the Los Angles riots (50 dead, 4000 injured 1 billion dollars damage) in 1992?

Why are you asking when you know the answer?

Anyway, these things aren't always black and white. I certainly still think OJ is guilty of murder, verdict or not. That's more a case of the rich being able to buy their way out than racial issues.

The truth is African Americans are prosecuted more and prosecuted more harshly including executions than other groups in the U.S. and that is a perfectly legitimate political issue. Ideally we want a justice system that is widely accepted to be as fair as possible, and the reality is, there is lots of room for improvement. So its not too surprising that some cases get politicized. Personally after one experience on a jury myself, I think there should be full time professional juries.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Jingthing

[kerryk]

I'm happy to accept ANY verdict of the jury (or a plea bargain situation). The question is, will right wing Americans accept a guilty verdict. Fair minded Americans including Obama were NOT willing to accept the shooter not facing the justice system at all for this killing.

BTW, this "debate" is just going around in a predictable endless loop. What's the point of it until there is any further news and/or the trial which isn't until some time in 2013?

Speaking of accepting verdicts was it it right wing Americans that didn't accept the verdict and cause the Los Angles riots (50 dead, 4000 injured 1 billion dollars damage) in 1992?

Why are you asking when you know the answer?

Anyway, these things aren't always black and white. I certainly still think OJ is guilty of murder, verdict or not. That's more a case of the rich being able to buy their way out than racial issues.

The truth is African Americans are prosecuted more and prosecuted more harshly including executions than other groups in the U.S. and that is a perfectly legitimate political issue. Ideally we want a justice system that is widely accepted to be as fair as possible, and the reality is, there is lots of room for improvement. So its not too surprising that some cases get politicized. Personally after one experience on a jury myself, I think there should be full time professional juries.

My point was you don't have to worry about the right wing Americans accepting a verdict. The trouble has always come from the left wing Americans (LA riots King verdict, 50 dead, 4000 injured, 1 billion in damages). I also would imagine African Americans commit more voilent crimes than their small proportion of the population would dictate in both the UK and US. I would not worry about the 70 year old right wing Americans running amok an South Florida.

[Jingthing]

Let's not act like naive children here, OK?

Race is definitely, 100 percent definitely, a factor in the administration of "justice" in the USA. The only way to fix it is to face the facts.

"We simply cannot say we live in a country that offers equal justice to all Americans when racial disparities plague the system by which our society imposes the ultimate punishment."

--Senator Russ Feingold on Civil Rights as a Priority for the 108th Congress, Senate, January 2003

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-and-race

[koheesti]

I'm happy to accept ANY verdict of the jury (or a plea bargain situation). The question is, will right wing Americans accept a guilty verdict. Fair minded Americans including Obama were NOT willing to accept the shooter not facing the justice system at all for this killing.

I (and I'm sure other "right-wingers" here) have no problem with Zimmerman going to court for this shooting. I don't see why it was even in question in the first place. I also think even if found not guilty he still needs to be punished in some way. Neighborhood Watchers shouldn't carry guns, IMO. If Zim had just shot the kid in the face with some pepper spray everyone would be better off.

What I DO have a problem with is the race baiting by the media and black so-called leaders like Sharpton and Jackson.

I have a problem with the media calling Zim a "white-hispanic" in an obvious baiting tactic to increase ratings and sell more papers. There is a steady stream of black-on-black shootings they ignore on a daily basis. Also remember, this is the same media who more often than not outright REFUSES to mention that some would-be bomber was Muslim or from the Middle East. NOW all of a sudden ethnicity is important.

I have a problem with the media showing photos of a cute, 14 yr old boy and not the 6'3" (1.9m) 17-yr who actually got shot. Great way to rile people up and sell papers.

I have a problem of the same media showing a 5 yr old mug shot of a thuggish-looking Zimmerman when the Zim of today looks as threatening as an anorexic Andre Agassi.

I have a problem with people blaming "right wingers" when the shooter was someone who self-identifies as Hispanic and is a registered DEMOCRAT.

I have a problem with people who say things like "he was shot for carrying Skittles and tea!" as if that had anything at all to do with him getting shot. Like when a kid gets shot for pointing a toy gun at a cop.

I have a problem with the New Black Panthers publicly putting a bounty on Zim (first $10k, then $1 million) and our government does NOTHING about it. Since when is it legal to put bounties on people?

I have a problem with NBC News selectively editing the 9/11 tape to make Zimmerman look like some kind of profiling racist. At least someone at NBC got fired over it.

I have a problem with Spike Lee and others tweeting some innocent family's address and inciting people to go there for "payback".

I have a problem with the rash of attacks of blacks on whites under the premise of "justice of Trayvon".

I have a problem with people who jump all over Geraldo Rivera because he correctly pointed out that we constantly see on TV, security camera video of young black men in hoodies robbing some store and because of that, young black men in hoodies are more likely to raise suspicion.

There's more I'm sure.

Edited April 25, 2012 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

Interesting. An affectionate nickname for Zimmerman -- Zim. It gets curiouser and curiouser.

The case wouldn't be in the news if the good old boy police department didn't believe Zimmerman's story verbatim. Now it is fixed, he is facing the justice system.

About some of your excited issues:

1) The shooter was carrying a gun legally. The trouble there is the law. So Floridians would have to change the law to fix that.

2. Race baiting by black leaders? Rather balanced out by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, I would say.

3. The shooter classified himself as Hispanic. Because his father is white and his mother a Latina, White Hispanic was a reasonable shorthand. I agree it would be better to actually spell out the situation, as above. My understanding is Hispanic is rather a dated word anyway.

BTW, if there can be "Blatinos" why can't there be White Hispanics?

The "media" routinely DOES report when terrorists are Muslim and/or Middle Eastern. It's an absurd distortion to assert that they don't when those are indeed ... the FACTS.

4. Yes in the early days of the story they should have shown more recent pictures, if they had them available. However, just because he was tall doesn't mean he was a potentially violent criminal. It is Zimmerman with the established record of temper and anger management incidents, NOT the dead victim.

5. What relevance is the shooter's party affiliation? He's a murder suspect.

6. What was he shot for? He was unarmed you know. Hopefully a trial will shed some light on the truth, but no guarantee of that sadly as already it is clear there are radically different accounts from different eye witnesses.

7. Nobody is defending the New Black Panthers ... so don't even bother getting excited about that.

8. Yes, the tape editing was misleading.

9. Spike Lee made a big mistake. But I still like Spike Lee. Sorry.

10. The hoodie story is what it is. If white boys can wear hoodies and not get shot, why can't black boys?

There's more I'm sure.

I'm sure. But don't you think that was enough?

An interesting item about the Florida stand your ground law and the racial aspect of its application:

Despite attempts to recast the Trayvon Martin tragedy as a legal squabble over Florida’s Stand Your Ground statute, many of us still file it under “racism in America.” We sense (though we could be wrong) that the self-defense law entered the picture not as an actual ingredient in Zimmerman’s thinking at the time of the murder, but as a retroactive justification. That what made the older man pursue a course capped in gunfire was his wariness at the sight of a hooded black kid, rather than his divination of a real threat.

http://www.slate.com...y_applied_.html Edited April 25, 2012 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

2. Race baiting by black leaders? Rather balanced out by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, I would say.

Can you give us a link to one example of "race baiting" by Rush Limbaugh concerning the Zimmerman case? I have not seen any reported.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[koheesti]

Interesting. An affectionate nickname for Zimmerman -- Zim. It gets curiouser and curiouser.

The case wouldn't be in the news if the good old boy police department didn't believe Zimmerman's story verbatim. Now it is fixed, he is facing the justice system.

About some of your excited issues:

1) The shooter was carrying a gun legally. The trouble there is the law. So Floridians would have to change the law to fix that.

2. Race baiting by black leaders? Rather balanced out by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, I would say.

3. The shooter classified himself as Hispanic. Because his father is white and his mother a Latina, White Hispanic was a reasonable shorthand. I agree it would be better to actually spell out the situation, as above. My understanding is Hispanic is rather a dated word anyway.

BTW, if there can be "Blatinos" why can't there be White Hispanics?

The "media" routinely DOES report when terrorists are Muslim and/or Middle Eastern. It's an absurd distortion to assert that they don't when those are indeed ... the FACTS.

4. Yes in the early days of the story they should have shown more recent pictures, if they had them available. However, just because he was tall doesn't mean he was a potentially violent criminal. It is Zimmerman with the established record of temper and anger management incidents, NOT the dead victim.

5. What relevance is the shooter's party affiliation? He's a murder suspect.

6. What was he shot for? He was unarmed you know. Hopefully a trial will shed some light on the truth, but no guarantee of that sadly as already it is clear there are radically different accounts from different eye witnesses.

7. Nobody is defending the New Black Panthers ... so don't even bother getting excited about that.

8. Yes, the tape editing was misleading.

9. Spike Lee made a big mistake. But I still like Spike Lee. Sorry.

10. The hoodie story is what it is. If white boys can wear hoodies and not get shot, why can't black boys?

Your points are weak - except where you agree I'm right.

"Zim" is shorthand, nothing affectionate about it. "Zimmy" would be affectionate, IMO.

1) The problem is not that there is a concealed weapon law. The problem is he was carrying it at an inappropriate time, while serving as Neighborhood Watch.

2) See Ulysses's reply above.

3) BS. One recent example, there was a report here in World News about a "German Citizen" who was arrested for a bombing plot. I was curious so I researched the story to find out that this particular citizen was Pakistani. The left-dominated media worldwide routinely ignores ethnicity & religion UNLESS the prep is white and/or Christian. Talk about racists and bigots.

4) Even today, 2 months later, the press is still showing a young Trayvon when there are plenty of more recent pics available on his Twitter and other accounts. Sadly, the pics that Trayvon chose for himself did not fit the racist narrative that the media was trying to push. As for his height not meaning he is violent, that's true, but there is a "logical fallacy" for what you are trying to do, I'll let you google it. Height and age are both important in context of a shooting based on "self defense". I guarantee there would have been much fewer protests if instead of photos of a smiling, young approx 14 yr old Trayvon, they showed his own Twitter profile pic of him snarling with his golden "grille" and mention anytime in the first month that he was 6'2" or 6'3" (I've heard both).

5) Party affiliation? Very relevant in an election year. Of course you don't find it relevant though.

6) Why was he shot? Because on a dark, rainy night, he confronted (and allegedly attacked) a smaller, armed neighborhood watch volunteer who had been following him because he aroused suspicion to the point he called 9/11.

6a) What "radically different accounts from eye-witnesses"? When I was in the US I saw a local reporter talking to a young black guy who reported seeing the guy in the red shirt (Zim) on the ground with the other guy (Trayvon) on top of him. I wonder if that little gem is online anywhere?

7) No one is defending the New Black Panthers, directly. But Obama's Eric Holder-led Dept of Justice sees no problem with them and THAT is a problem. This is the second time the Obama admin has turned a blind eye to the NBP. AND, because they were allowed to place bounties on people, and BECAUSE the media has pushed Zim as being white, the freakin' NAZI party skinhead racist pricks went to Florida, armed to the teeth to "protect" white people who feel threatened.

10) When we can turn on TV and see endless security camera videos of white boys in hoodies robbing convenience stores, they'll get shot too. In the meantime, certain people like to look tough, real gangsta', then cry when some bad sh*t happens to them. When I was younger and loved heavy metal music, I still had short hair and never wore black concert t-shirts. I was pretty clean-cut for the times. Why? Because as much as I loved the music (still do) I also liked being able to walk into a store without being watched or followed by store security because of how I looked. Yep, white people get profiled too. Sure, it was my RIGHT!! to wear what I wanted but having the right to wear something does not guarantee that others will look at you and think what you want them to think.

Edited April 26, 2012 by koheesti

[chuckd]

Now it seems Zimmerman should have been labeled a "White-Afro-Peruvian-American".

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

From the Article:

" He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him."

This article presents another slant on who Zimmerman really seems to be.

[Jingthing]

What difference does that make? The truth is on the night of the murder Mr. Zimmerman indulged in racist stereotyping type thoughts. Black man with hoodie. Must be on drugs and up to no good. The evidence is there and so was the dead body. Typical racist type thought and usually benign enough, but dangerous in the mind of an armed man with his particular psychological history (policeman wannabe, overzealous neighborhood watch activist, ridiculous number of calls to police).

[Steely Dan]

What difference does that make? The truth is on the night of the murder Mr. Zimmerman indulged in racist stereotyping type thoughts. Black man with hoodie. Must be on drugs and up to no good. The evidence is there and so was the dead body. Typical racist type thought and usually benign enough, but dangerous in the mind of an armed man with his particular psychological history (policeman wannabe, overzealous neighborhood watch activist, ridiculous number of calls to police).

Jing, Are you a mind reader so you know Zimmerman's thoughts to the degree you conclude he indulged in 'racist type stereotyping'?

I would remind you of Jessie Jackson's quote that Uly posted - do you think this was also racist stereotyping. Aside from this all even supposing Zimmerman did 'think' Martin looked suspicious because of his colour and attire there are not as yet any thought crimes on the U.S statute books.

[Ulysses G.]

If Zimmerman killed Trayvon for the heck of it, I would be quite indifferent if he got the death penalty, but, so far, there is no evidence that he did not shoot him in self-defence

Edited April 26, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

A troll post which obviously was intended to derail the topic has been deleted along with replies.

Stereotyping of people is not appreciated and stereotyping of posters is not allowed.

[Jingthing]

Regarding the comment before about the problem with eyewitness accounts of this killing:

http://www.examiner.com/article/trayvon-martin-case-showcases-eyewitness-unreliability?cid=db_articles

Regardless of where you come down on George Zimmerman's criminal culpability in his death, whether murder or self-defense, the multiple eyewitness accounts of the incident have an incredible amount of discrepancies among them. Reading them, it's tough to believe they are all describing the same event.

[Jingthing]

What difference does that make? The truth is on the night of the murder Mr. Zimmerman indulged in racist stereotyping type thoughts. Black man with hoodie. Must be on drugs and up to no good. The evidence is there and so was the dead body. Typical racist type thought and usually benign enough, but dangerous in the mind of an armed man with his particular psychological history (policeman wannabe, overzealous neighborhood watch activist, ridiculous number of calls to police).

Jing, Are you a mind reader so you know Zimmerman's thoughts to the degree you conclude he indulged in 'racist type stereotyping'?

I would remind you of Jessie Jackson's quote that Uly posted - do you think this was also racist stereotyping. Aside from this all even supposing Zimmerman did 'think' Martin looked suspicious because of his colour and attire there are not as yet any thought crimes on the U.S statute books.

I don't care what Jackson said. Did he shoot anyone dead lately? No, I can't read Zimmerman's mind but being American I am aware of the massive racism in America and that its effects on people are real. It doesn't usually result in the tragic murder of innocent young man taking an evening stroll, but it is real nonetheless. About Zimmerman we know certain facts. A long standing pattern of overly paranoid police calls, mostly about ... you guessed it ... black men. And the call about Zimmerman states he was up to no good and on drugs. Why did he think that? Based on what? Again, look at the pattern of Zimmerman's past behavior. Edited April 26, 2012 by Jingthing

[koheesti]

Regarding the comment before about the problem with eyewitness accounts of this killing:

http://www.examiner....cid=db_articles

Regardless of where you come down on George Zimmerman's criminal culpability in his death, whether murder or self-defense, the multiple eyewitness accounts of the incident have an incredible amount of discrepancies among them. Reading them, it's tough to believe they are all describing the same event.

I didn't realize so many people were watching the events unfold on a dark, rainy night. It will be interesting what they each say in court under oath.

[koheesti]

What difference does that make? The truth is on the night of the murder Mr. Zimmerman indulged in racist stereotyping type thoughts. Black man with hoodie. Must be on drugs and up to no good. The evidence is there and so was the dead body. Typical racist type thought and usually benign enough, but dangerous in the mind of an armed man with his particular psychological history (policeman wannabe, overzealous neighborhood watch activist, ridiculous number of calls to police).

Jing, Are you a mind reader so you know Zimmerman's thoughts to the degree you conclude he indulged in 'racist type stereotyping'?

I would remind you of Jessie Jackson's quote that Uly posted - do you think this was also racist stereotyping. Aside from this all even supposing Zimmerman did 'think' Martin looked suspicious because of his colour and attire there are not as yet any thought crimes on the U.S statute books.

I don't care what Jackson said. Did he shoot anyone dead lately? No, I can't read Zimmerman's mind but being American I am aware of the massive racism in America and that its effects on people are real. It doesn't usually result in the tragic murder of innocent young man taking an evening stroll, but it is real nonetheless. About Zimmerman we know certain facts. A long standing pattern of overly paranoid police calls, mostly about ... you guessed it ... black men. And the call about Zimmerman states he was up to no good and on drugs. Why did he think that? Based on what? Again, look at the pattern of Zimmerman's past behavior.

There can be other reasons Zim's previous phone calls were mostly about black men.What percentage of the crimes are black men responsible for in his area? And from Zim's 9/11 call, it doesn't sound like Trayvon was simply taking a stroll along the sidewalk. He must have been doing something out of the ordinary. It was raining. I heard that Trayvon had been walking off the sidewalk and close to the buildings. This could have been to stay out of the rain. This could be that he was looking for someplace to rob. I like to think it was to stay out of the rain. Perhaps if he had an umbrella he wouldn't have looked so suspicious? It's a tragic turn of events - BUT that doesn't make Zim a racist. There is plenty of testimony from people who know him that dispute these charges of racism that some people like to throw about without proof.

[Jingthing]

I'm not saying he is in the KKK. I'm saying he was indulging in typical racial stereotyping, seeing this boy as a threat, when he wasn't a threat. You're obsessing over nothing. The issue is he murdered an unarmed boy. Having racial stereotype thought processes is perfectly legal and as common as apples. He will be tried for second degree murder. That's what matters here.

... He said, “This guy looks like he is up to no good — he is on drugs or something,” showing us he saw a Rorschach of a tall black boy walking in the distance and assumed he was a criminal and a drug user and to be feared. None of these things were true—in fact, the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse has repeatedly found that blacks use illegal drugs at about the same rates as other races. Zimmerman is also said to have mentored two black children in his neighborhood. Does that prove he’s not a racist? No.

http://ideas.time.com/2012/04/19/inside-the-racist-mind/#ixzz1sywHTtJ2

Edited April 26, 2012 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

There is plenty of testimony from people who know him that dispute these charges of racism that some people like to throw about without proof.

Exactly. It is easy to throw around charges of racism, but, from all the evidence, Zimmerman does not seem to fit the politically correct stereotype.

[Scott]

The yahoo site that pops up when I turn on my browser had this report on Zimmerman. I scanned it and have no strong opinion one way or the other on the shooting as it will be up to the Court to decide guilt or innocence. It might be of interest to some of our posters:

http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-prelude-shooting-194235114.html

[Ulysses G.]

That is a really good link. It shows why Zimmerman was suspicious of a young black man - lots of robberies committed by black men in his area - and makes the charges of racism look completely ridiculous.

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

Edited April 27, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[chuckd]

The yahoo site that pops up when I turn on my browser had this report on Zimmerman. I scanned it and have no strong opinion one way or the other on the shooting as it will be up to the Court to decide guilt or innocence. It might be of interest to some of our posters:

http://news.yahoo.co...-194235114.html

Have you ever done anything that makes you feel like Rodney Dangerfield???

I posted this same article in post #43.

Doesn't ANYBODY read my posts?

[Scott]

Chuckd: I've been sprung and I do apologize to you! I don't always read all the links posted (time permitting, I do try to open and check them). When I saw that one this morning on yahoo, I thought...hmm....should I post it or not.....hmmm, I wonder if someone else has posted it....

Now you've caught me!

One more thing you should know....I didn't read the entire article. I read part of it and scanned the rest to see if there was anything that would contravene thaivisa forum rules!

[Jingthing]

You are considering race bias too narrowly. All black boys walking his neighborhood aren't criminals. Crime wave or no crime wave, treating them all as guilty still is race bias.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

You are considering race bias too narrowly. All black boys walking his neighborhood aren't criminals. Crime wave or no crime wave, treating them all as guilty still is race bias.

But we can afford to be generous in our assessment of the situation that night.

We don't live in that particular crime ridden neighborhood and weren't there that particular dark, rainy night.

[chuckd]

Chuckd: I've been sprung and I do apologize to you! I don't always read all the links posted (time permitting, I do try to open and check them). When I saw that one this morning on yahoo, I thought...hmm....should I post it or not.....hmmm, I wonder if someone else has posted it....

Now you've caught me!

One more thing you should know....I didn't read the entire article. I read part of it and scanned the rest to see if there was anything that would contravene thaivisa forum rules!

Not a problem...but I enjoyed catching you in it.