Provisional Teaching License

[connda]

It's my understanding that prior to teaching at a government school, the school will need to apply for a provisional teaching license for the foreign teacher.

If the school fails to apply for the provisional teaching license, or the license is not issued prior to my start date, what are my risks. Is it against the law? If so, what are the penalties?

[connda]

From what I can tell, a "provisional teaching license" allows the school to hire.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

IMO such issues are considered the school's responsibility (assuming your CV is accurate), and in practice there is little risk to the individual teacher of serious consequences for "breaking the law".

Strict letter-of-the-law enforcement here is rare, and in this context works against the national interest.

[nietzche]

I have met many retirees who teach at government schools. Apparently they are not supposed to, but no-one bats an eyelid.

[ShodomonRules]

I have met many retirees who teach at government schools. Apparently they are not supposed to, but no-one bats an eyelid.

Are you saying they are on retirement visas, teach without work permits and get paid, and have no problems?

I live in a remote town. They want me to teach (15 hours per week) but I don't want to mess with my retirement visa, nor do I want to get busted. I don't think immigration has ever been to this town, but it only takes one pissed off person to make a call.

Even the "mayor" has repeatedly asked me to teach. I'm the only English speaker withing miles.

Experiences, anybody?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Are you saying they are on retirement visas, teach without work permits and get paid, and have no problems?

I live in a remote town. They want me to teach (15 hours per week) but I don't want to mess with my retirement visa, nor do I want to get busted. I don't think immigration has ever been to this town, but it only takes one pissed off person to make a call.

Even the "mayor" has repeatedly asked me to teach. I'm the only English speaker withing miles.

Experiences, anybody?

If you have full support of the local community - including the headman, then in practice I don't think you'll have a problem, just put it out there that they need to try to front up for you if it comes up.

I think worst case they'll just be asked to sponsor your work permit, fix up the situation, you might have to do a visa run, but don't worry about any actual punishment for trying to help your community.

Of course it should be presented as volunteering, maybe they chip in to your landlord and local publican or something rather than running a salary through their accounts. . .

[connda]

Are you saying they are on retirement visas, teach without work permits and get paid, and have no problems?

I live in a remote town. They want me to teach (15 hours per week) but I don't want to mess with my retirement visa, nor do I want to get busted. I don't think immigration has ever been to this town, but it only takes one pissed off person to make a call.

Even the "mayor" has repeatedly asked me to teach. I'm the only English speaker withing miles.

Experiences, anybody?

If you have full support of the local community - including the headman, then in practice I don't think you'll have a problem, just put it out there that they need to try to front up for you if it comes up.

I think worst case they'll just be asked to sponsor your work permit, fix up the situation, you might have to do a visa run, but don't worry about any actual punishment for trying to help your community.

Of course it should be presented as volunteering, maybe they chip in to your landlord and local publican or something rather than running a salary through their accounts. . .

Here are the penalties for working without a work permit in Thailand -- a criminal offense:

5 years in prison

100,000 baht fine

Deportation (say goodbye to your friends and family)

All that because you want to me a nice person an help out. People do get busted. It does happen. It only take one person who for whatever reason decides to dislike you -- and you have major problems.

What is really unfortunate is that volunteering is, from a cultural perspective, something that Western's do, especially during retirement. Thai society could benefit in so many ways by loosening the rules for retirees and allowing work permits to be issued for volunteering in the local community. I'll never understand why the average Thai bureaucrat can't fathom that -- well really I can. Greed runs this country and volunteering is a total outlier in their cultural reality. If someone can't make money by capitalizing on your good intentions, then why bother promoting it as law.

Sad, but proceed at your own peril.

And at BigJohnneyBKK -- you just told this poster it's OK to break Thai criminal law. How wise is that?

Edited April 25, 2012 by connda

[BigJohnnyBKK]

And at BigJohnneyBKK -- you just told this poster it's OK to break Thai criminal law. How wise is that?

Because I deal with practical realities not theoretical possibilities. Point me to one current inmate in for anything like what we're talking about here and I'll bring him a six-pack of healthy home-cooked meals ten weeks in a row.

Obviously BiB could use any pretense to stitch someone up who's gotten involved in serious stuff, but I can't magine them even deporting in the above scenario just get them to fix up the paperwork or cut it out. The church I'm involved with gets volunteer work permits all the time anyway, just not worth doing for a local school up in woop-woop.

[Ijustwannateach]

There are a number of recent threads, including one lengthy pinned thread, about the 'official' teacher's license, waivers, the TCT, and other matters in the teacher's subforum (to which this thread will shortly be moved). Check 'em out.

As others have said: working illegally is not recommended, though it is true that many try to make things work that way.

[connda]

And at BigJohnneyBKK -- you just told this poster it's OK to break Thai criminal law. How wise is that?

Because I deal with practical realities not theoretical possibilities. Point me to one current inmate in for anything like what we're talking about here and I'll bring him a six-pack of healthy home-cooked meals ten weeks in a row.

Obviously BiB could use any pretense to stitch someone up who's gotten involved in serious stuff, but I can't magine them even deporting in the above scenario just get them to fix up the paperwork or cut it out. The church I'm involved with gets volunteer work permits all the time anyway, just not worth doing for a local school up in woop-woop.

Just saying...... <shrug>

[connda]

If you asked me to point out one individual in Thailand doing time for being in possession of and smoking marijuana, I wouldn't be able to. Just dealing with practical realities not theoretical possibilities, how would I have access to that information. And I've met a few young folk who think it's no problem to smoke pot here in LOS. And I must admit, I've never personally known anyone to get busted, so if you play the probability game maybe there is nothing to worry about. But I caution those people that they are violating a criminal law and there are serious consequences if caught. And people do get busted, but drug related busts here in LOS are something to parade in the news -- work permit violations are not. With that being said, it was my own attorney that originally cautioned me against working without a permit and he has been involved in cases dealing with violations. They do happen. And like anything else in LOS, maybe you can smooth it over with amply tea money or political connection, or maybe not.

So, I'm sorry for being a total asshat, jackass, stick-in-the-mud, party-pooper for pointing out that working without a WP is a criminal offense in Thailand and comes with some pretty stiff penalties. I know I am totally in the wrong: many apologies to all I have offended -- I'll never say anything in this forum again regarding WP because I'm just obviously stupid, paranoid, and perhaps too anal-retentive for attempting to follow and promote Thai law.

And why does your church bother to get WPs for it's volunteers -- sounds like a waste of time and energy. Your visiting parishioners should just be able to volunteer on their tourist visa without the hassle and expense of doing all that nonsensical paperwork for the MOL. Dealing strictly with practical realities, nobody in your church needs one.

@ShodomonRules: Sorry man. I'm obviously stupid and totally wrong. Hundreds of farangs work without a work permit. The laws are ignored by Thais and farang both. I'm just an idiot. Have fun and good luck.

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[DerekAbroad]

I live in a remote town. They want me to teach (15 hours per week)

Where is this? I have a summer to kill

So, I'm sorry for being a total asshat, jackass, stick-in-the-mud, party-pooper for pointing out that working without a WP is a criminal offense in Thailand and comes with some pretty stiff penalties. I know I am totally in the wrong: many apologies to all I have offended -- I'll never say anything in this forum again regarding WP because I'm just obviously stupid, paranoid, and perhaps too anal-retentive for attempting to follow and promote Thai law.

As long as you know what you did wrong...

I think it's always best to walk the straight and narrow, keep your nose clean, etc.