Sending Money To The Uk, And Not Paying Tax On It.

[Pseudolus]

Over the next couple of months I need to send back some cash to the UK, about 150k USD, to buy some property there. The way I see it right now is if I do it; exchange with a forex broker, send it, fess up to it / get caught I will have to pay a rather large amount of tax which frankly I do not want to do. The buying a property there is something I need to do for various reasons so that part can't change.

My only thought so far is to send back large lumps to various family members, who then pool it into either my savings account there (which I assume will send alarm bells ringing) or perhaps to my Lawyer to hold in bond prior to making the purchase?

Or, I open a business there which can be done online, invoice my business here for the cash, and then either buy the property with the company or take the wedge out as a directors loan / dividend what ever and buy it that way.

Mind boggles and before my UK accountant gets all excited by me calling him again, I thought I would ask the good people here. Please PM me though out of preference if you have a dead cert way of doing it

[seaeagle]

If you should pay tax, then pay it. People like you are just as bad as the work-shy spongers who expect the state to look after them. Next time you want free NHS treatment, free schooling, pensions, and any of the social services that you get in UK, then I trust you'll offer to pay for it, and refuse to accept 'free' services. Hope nobody helps you on this.

[Pseudolus]

If you should pay tax, then pay it. People like you are just as bad as the work-shy spongers who expect the state to look after them. Next time you want free NHS treatment, free schooling, pensions, and any of the social services that you get in UK, then I trust you'll offer to pay for it, and refuse to accept 'free' services. Hope nobody helps you on this.

Thanks for you help.

FYI; I have and nearly always had private pensions, private medical, private schooling for my kids I do not have yet, and myself and family have paid considerably more tax than most UK people, and I have in actuality never taken much at all. So, thanks for your insight, now please proceed and stick your suggestion where your head is obviously lodged.

So back to the helpful people - any useful insights gratefully received.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Pseudolus

[seaeagle]

If you should pay tax, then pay it. People like you are just as bad as the work-shy spongers who expect the state to look after them. Next time you want free NHS treatment, free schooling, pensions, and any of the social services that you get in UK, then I trust you'll offer to pay for it, and refuse to accept 'free' services. Hope nobody helps you on this.

Thanks for you help.

FYI; I have and nearly always had private pensions, private medical, private schooling for my kids I do not have yet, and myself and family have paid considerably more tax than most UK people, and I have in actuality never taken much at all. So, thanks for your insight, now please proceed and stick your suggestion where your head is obviously lodged.

So back to the helpful people - any useful insights gratefully received.

Hope you have private roads, private police force, and private fire engines, as well.

[true blue]

If you should pay tax, then pay it. People like you are just as bad as the work-shy spongers who expect the state to look after them. Next time you want free NHS treatment, free schooling, pensions, and any of the social services that you get in UK, then I trust you'll offer to pay for it, and refuse to accept 'free' services. Hope nobody helps you on this.

hope no one ever helps you,if you are in dier straights,or in need,your either a troll,or a very selfish dolt,

[Pseudolus]

Do we really have to go here?

"Hope you have private roads, private police force, and private fire engines, as well. " Don't need them as I don't live there. Also, I have more than paid my way on these parts in the past, so no need be cocky, You don't know me, so you can not make assumptions without sounding like a bitter nerk.

Can someone not legitimately ask on a forum for some advice on tax savings? Have you two always paid all of your taxes yourself (as in, not a company paying it for you) in every country you have lived? Never tried scrape a little back? Never? If not, then you are daft.

Quite why you feel the need to be insulting and nasty I have no idea. If you have nothing to contribute aside from sitting on life's sidelines grumbling and throwing stones at people, then why bother. Do you Live in Thailand? Are you objecting to the fact that you still live in the UK and hate the fact that someone else doesn't and worse still, is going to buy a house in the UK....and not live in it themselves? Maybe you are wanting to buy a house but cant' get the mortgage in the current climate, and are pissed off I am just sending the cash back? For all you know, I might be doing this to rent it out and have the rent money paying for my grans nursing home fees. Who knows? You don't, but I hope that is you ever ask for advice you are not met with one of life's turds being obnoxious in a thread that clearly has nothing to do with them.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Pseudolus

[seaeagle]

If you should pay tax, then pay it. People like you are just as bad as the work-shy spongers who expect the state to look after them. Next time you want free NHS treatment, free schooling, pensions, and any of the social services that you get in UK, then I trust you'll offer to pay for it, and refuse to accept 'free' services. Hope nobody helps you on this.

hope no one ever helps you,if you are in dier straights,or in need,your either a troll,or a very selfish dolt,

Helping in a 'dire situation' does seem a little different to helping someone who can afford private health, private schooling and private pensions avoid their share on taxes, don't you think?

Troll - no. Selfish - no. Fair - absolutely.

[CharlieH]

Surely the first course of action would be to determine if you actually would be liable to pay Tax in the UK on a property sale made in Thailand. ? and at what rate etc and then balance that cost against the cost routing through other means.

I dont think passing through friends and family is a good idea as it could cause them problems with the Tax man in the future when they have to explain it. (possibly).

Edited April 26, 2012 by CharlieH

[Pseudolus]

If you should pay tax, then pay it. People like you are just as bad as the work-shy spongers who expect the state to look after them. Next time you want free NHS treatment, free schooling, pensions, and any of the social services that you get in UK, then I trust you'll offer to pay for it, and refuse to accept 'free' services. Hope nobody helps you on this.

hope no one ever helps you,if you are in dier straights,or in need,your either a troll,or a very selfish dolt,

Helping in a 'dire situation' does seem a little different to helping someone who can afford private health, private schooling and private pensions avoid their share on taxes, don't you think?

Troll - no. Selfish - no. Fair - absolutely.

Oh really.

How about your thread..."Difference In Selling Costs" where at the end you say " So, for the latter, they cream off a bit more. But, how much more? "

Trying to save yourself some expense from a financial transaction are you? Bloody hypacrite. On your way sunshine.

[Pseudolus]

Surely the first course of action would be to determine if you actually would be liable to pay Tax in the UK on a property sale made in Thailand. ? and at what rate etc and then balance that cost against the cost routing through other means.

I dont think passing through friends and family is a good idea as it could cause them problems with the Tax man in the future when they have to explain it. (possibly).

Thanks - I am not selling a property here though. It's cash money I have saved up that needs to be put to a better use in the UK. I get the opinion it would be a straight capital gains tax or something like that.

[CharlieH]

Surely the first course of action would be to determine if you actually would be liable to pay Tax in the UK on a property sale made in Thailand. ? and at what rate etc and then balance that cost against the cost routing through other means.

I dont think passing through friends and family is a good idea as it could cause them problems with the Tax man in the future when they have to explain it. (possibly).

Thanks - I am not selling a property here though. It's cash money I have saved up that needs to be put to a better use in the UK. I get the opinion it would be a straight capital gains tax or something like that.

No offence intended but its not a good idea to "think" or "something like that", get some firm answers from an accountant or research online on what if anything is liable and how much and plan to go from there. Are you classed as a UK resident/tax payer ?

[Pseudolus]

Surely the first course of action would be to determine if you actually would be liable to pay Tax in the UK on a property sale made in Thailand. ? and at what rate etc and then balance that cost against the cost routing through other means.

I dont think passing through friends and family is a good idea as it could cause them problems with the Tax man in the future when they have to explain it. (possibly).

Thanks - I am not selling a property here though. It's cash money I have saved up that needs to be put to a better use in the UK. I get the opinion it would be a straight capital gains tax or something like that.

No offence intended but its not a good idea to "think" or "something like that", get some firm answers from an accountant or research online on what if anything is liable and how much and plan to go from there. Are you classed as a UK resident/tax payer ?

None taken - I left the UK and never looked back; someone told me once I should have filled in some forms when I left but I never got around to it. Not paid tax there since I left, I don't believe Iwould have to anyway. I think you are right; I will need to get proper advice on this but as always its helpful to direct your accountant towards the right loophole; mine in the UK is a by the books kind of guy which is useful except for things like this.

[seaeagle]

If you should pay tax, then pay it. People like you are just as bad as the work-shy spongers who expect the state to look after them. Next time you want free NHS treatment, free schooling, pensions, and any of the social services that you get in UK, then I trust you'll offer to pay for it, and refuse to accept 'free' services. Hope nobody helps you on this.

hope no one ever helps you,if you are in dier straights,or in need,your either a troll,or a very selfish dolt,

Helping in a 'dire situation' does seem a little different to helping someone who can afford private health, private schooling and private pensions avoid their share on taxes, don't you think?

Troll - no. Selfish - no. Fair - absolutely.

Oh really.

How about your thread..."Difference In Selling Costs" where at the end you say " So, for the latter, they cream off a bit more. But, how much more? "

Trying to save yourself some expense from a financial transaction are you? Bloody hypacrite. On your way sunshine.

Totally different and in-comparable. That's 'tax avoidance', not your 'tax evasion'.

How can I even think of cheating Thai Tax, when it's crystal clear as to how long the property has been owned? All I'm wanting to ascertain in that thread is what the difference in selling costs is, ie whether it's worth hanging on a few months, or whether it's worth cashing in right now. In either sale scenario, I will pay the correct amount of tax that is due as at that point in time.

[CharlieH]

Just for info, I dont think based on what you have said "savings" etc that Capital Gains even applies and here's why,

"Capital Gains Tax is a tax on the profit or gain you make when you sell or ‘dispose of’ an asset."

That's taken from the UK HMRC website.

You might want to have a browse through this :http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/intro/basics.htm

[Pseudolus]

Totally different and in-comparable. That's 'tax avoidance', not your 'tax evasion'.

How can I even think of cheating Thai Tax, when it's crystal clear as to how long the property has been owned? All I'm wanting to ascertain in that thread is what the difference in selling costs is, ie whether it's worth hanging on a few months, or whether it's worth cashing in right now. In either sale scenario, I will pay the correct amount of tax that is due as at that point in time.

I want to avoid tax as well. So what is your point? That it's ok for you to do it, but not for anyone else?

[topt]

Surely the first course of action would be to determine if you actually would be liable to pay Tax in the UK on a property sale made in Thailand. ? and at what rate etc and then balance that cost against the cost routing through other means.

I dont think passing through friends and family is a good idea as it could cause them problems with the Tax man in the future when they have to explain it. (possibly).

Thanks - I am not selling a property here though. It's cash money I have saved up that needs to be put to a better use in the UK. I get the opinion it would be a straight capital gains tax or something like that.

No offence intended but its not a good idea to "think" or "something like that", get some firm answers from an accountant or research online on what if anything is liable and how much and plan to go from there. Are you classed as a UK resident/tax payer ?

None taken - I left the UK and never looked back; someone told me once I should have filled in some forms when I left but I never got around to it. Not paid tax there since I left, I don't believe Iwould have to anyway. I think you are right; I will need to get proper advice on this but as always its helpful to direct your accountant towards the right loophole; mine in the UK is a by the books kind of guy which is useful except for things like this.

If you have not paid tax there since you left I am curious why you have an accountant? - or does he save you the tax?

If you get yourself registered as non resident for tax purposes and are able to transfer the money (out from Thailand?) then my understanding wouyld be that there is no tax to pay at all. As long as you can prove provenance on the funds then there should be no issues with any UK financial institution either.

As CharlieH says I think (but I stress I am no expert!) that CGT would only come into it if these were profits from a transaction and you were liable to pay UK taxes on it. If you don't want to pay your accounbtant why not ring the HMRC Non resident helpline and talk to them. I did that after I left the UK and found them very helpful and straightforward - did not even want my personal details before answering some questions.

[CharlieH]

As per Topt : "ring the HMRC Non resident helpline and talk to them" ,

this is sound advice and worth the few quid phonecall to get it right from the horses mouth so to speak.

Perfect, especially if you dont have to give personal details.

[Pseudolus]

TOPT- This is making sense now. So I register as "non resident", prove where the money came from, and bang it back in one lump sum. the fact that I have paid tax on it here already will need to be shown? Or is it irrelevant?

As for the accountant, he is a family friend that I used when I was living in the UK for various things. .

[Naam]

Thanks - I am not selling a property here though. It's cash money I have saved up that needs to be put to a better use in the UK. I get the opinion it would be a straight capital gains tax or something like that.

since when are savings taxed? why do i get the feeling that this is one of your "pond-pipe-airconditioning" ideas?

[Pseudolus]

Thanks - I am not selling a property here though. It's cash money I have saved up that needs to be put to a better use in the UK. I get the opinion it would be a straight capital gains tax or something like that.

since when are savings taxed? why do i get the feeling that this is one of your "pond-pipe-airconditioning" ideas?

dude, when I earn't the money i paid tax on it. Don't you pay income tax? The money did not end up in my savings account from a money tree, or from a kind fairy katoey waving his magic dong.

As for the aircon idea, it is sound, Pond pipe? A combustion engine. Also investigated an Aga to run aircon as well but could not be bothered to mention that as people on TV sit tend to troll anything that is not done the Thai way.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Pseudolus

[seaeagle]

Totally different and in-comparable. That's 'tax avoidance', not your 'tax evasion'.

How can I even think of cheating Thai Tax, when it's crystal clear as to how long the property has been owned? All I'm wanting to ascertain in that thread is what the difference in selling costs is, ie whether it's worth hanging on a few months, or whether it's worth cashing in right now. In either sale scenario, I will pay the correct amount of tax that is due as at that point in time.

I want to avoid tax as well. So what is your point? That it's ok for you to do it, but not for anyone else?

<deleted> - no you don't! You don't want to 'avoid', you want to 'evade'.

Look at the words / phrases you've used:

'fess up to it / get caught'

'pay a rather large amount of tax which frankly I do not want to do'

'will send alarm bells ringing'

'by the books kind of guy which is useful except for things like this'

That's it, I've said enough on your honesty here. Now, taking into account the further information given in your subsequent posts, I also believe that, providing proof of source is provided, then it will be accepted as 'legit' in the UK, and won't fall into a taxation class I'm aware of.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that your biggest problem is clearing the 'money laundering' hurdle with your UK financial instituion. Thailand was recently put on a watch-list for financial transactions, so expect above average scrutiny in anything you send back. Check the current status of this watch-list, as it sent a few shivers around the government here, and they promised swift action.

[necronx99]

Thanks - I am not selling a property here though. It's cash money I have saved up that needs to be put to a better use in the UK. I get the opinion it would be a straight capital gains tax or something like that.

since when are savings taxed? why do i get the feeling that this is one of your "pond-pipe-airconditioning" ideas?

That was my hair brained scheme. Please properly attribute such schemes at all times.

Danke.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[necronx99]

Thanks - I am not selling a property here though. It's cash money I have saved up that needs to be put to a better use in the UK. I get the opinion it would be a straight capital gains tax or something like that.

since when are savings taxed? why do i get the feeling that this is one of your "pond-pipe-airconditioning" ideas?

dude, when I earn't the money i paid tax on it. Don't you pay income tax? The money did not end up in my savings account from a money tree, or from a kind fairy katoey waving his magic dong.

As for the aircon idea, it is sound, Pond pipe? A combustion engine. Also investigated an Aga to run aircon as well but could not be bothered to mention that as people on TV sit tend to troll anything that is not done the Thai way.

What does the tax treaty between the uk and Thailand say? Is your accountant skilled in such matters?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Pseudolus]

Seaegle - I want to avoid as much as I can. Where's the issue? ...about my honesty; where do you get off with that remark. If it was not the fact that you made your very first no doubt sensible remark in that post I would again be telling you to relax and take a break as you don't need to be an arsehol_e troll all the time.

Anyway, I will call up the pay per second help line and ask them if its confidential. My accountant is a nice old duffer, but would not have a clue on tax treaties between Thailand and the UK. I just thought that with the <deleted> exchange rate there would be a lot of people returning and going through this hurdle.

[PattayaParent]

What makes you think you'd have to pay UK tax?

Was the money earned in UK?

Are you UK resident?

If not then there's no tax to pay.

FWIW I'm intending to do the same thing and will just send the moeny to my solicitor to arrange the purchase with POA.

[Darrel]

None taken - I left the UK and never looked back; someone told me once I should have filled in some forms when I left but I never got around to it. Not paid tax there since I left, I don't believe Iwould have to anyway.

You leave out all the important information.

When did you leave?

Did you retain any accommodation for your exclusive use in the UK? (Flat, room at parents' house, etc.)

Have you had any income arising in the UK since you left?

If the answers are "many years ago", "no" and "no" then you are not resident and will have no liability to UK income tax or CGT on any sums sent back to the UK. You dont have to have told HMRC you were leaving when you left in order to be non-resident, but it helps.

As for sending money to various relatives to transfer to your UK bank account, this will probably get the anti money laundering alarm bells ringing fast (not least because it really is money laundering ). Transferring money from an account here in your name to an account there in your name will probably have no such effect at all, though your UK bank may want some indication as to how you got the money in the first place. A deed of sale for a Thai condo etc. would do nicely, of course.

There may also be some question about how you will export a large sum like that anyway, and whether the Thai revenue department might be interested as to how you got it.

[bendix]

Im struggling to see why the OP would think he has to pay tax on savings built up over a period of time from income already taxed.

[true blue]

i could be wrong?? but what tax would you pay on a normal cash transaction,of your own money,from one account of your own,to another account of your own,even if it was different countries,mind boggles at times,think ive been on tv to long,lol.

[Soutpeel]

Im struggling to see why the OP would think he has to pay tax on savings built up over a period of time from income already taxed.

Exactly the stupidity of some of these posts is mind boggling.

If the money wasnt earned in the UK, and the OP doesnt live in the UK then the OP wouldnt be liable for tax in the UK, if however he deposited the money in a bank in the UK, he would be liable for tax on any interest earned on the money

[Darrel]

... if however he deposited the money in a bank in the UK, he would be liable for tax on any interest earned on the money

Only if he is resident there.

When it comes to UK tax "residency" is everything. "Where you live" is meaningless.