Bargain Phuket

[Chainsaw]

Sorry if beating a dead water buffalo, but Falcon and I have attested to the fact that it is possible to lead a very confortable life on less than 20,000 baht a month in Phuket. See previous posts (or PM me) if interested in details.

I agree, mind you I don't have to pay rent or water bills.

[steelepulse]

Do all of you less than 20K people not have health, car/mortorbike, house/renters insurance? If not what happens when you have an accident? Surely that would be a huge blow to that ultra low budget.

[HongKongPhooey]

Do all of you less than 20K people not have health, car/mortorbike, house/renters insurance? If not what happens when you have an accident? Surely that would be a huge blow to that ultra low budget.

What a lot of people fail to understand is that insurance is just another form of gambling, and as everybody knows when it comes to gambling the house always wins!

If insurance companies paid out more than we paid in, why and how would they stay in business?

I don't think insurances (other than mandatory ones) need to be factored in to a monthly budget as long as you have money in the bank to cover the cost of anything that arises. Only when you spend the money does it then become part of your budget, and there is more chance you won't need to spend it than will.

So I agree having an accident will undoubtedly change your budget, but not for the several years that you probably won't have one.

[Hostile17]

dont you lose the 30% cheaper price on trees with the 800km drive price of gas?

[NamKangMan]

Do all of you less than 20K people not have health, car/mortorbike, house/renters insurance? If not what happens when you have an accident? Surely that would be a huge blow to that ultra low budget.

What a lot of people fail to understand is that insurance is just another form of gambling, and as everybody knows when it comes to gambling the house always wins!

If insurance companies paid out more than we paid in, why and how would they stay in business?

I don't think insurances (other than mandatory ones) need to be factored in to a monthly budget as long as you have money in the bank to cover the cost of anything that arises. Only when you spend the money does it then become part of your budget, and there is more chance you won't need to spend it than will.

So I agree having an accident will undoubtedly change your budget, but not for the several years that you probably won't have one.

Once again, great advice from HKP.

Shall we now discuss the finacial impact of having a heart attack/stroke/cancer etc etc????????

[HongKongPhooey]

Do all of you less than 20K people not have health, car/mortorbike, house/renters insurance? If not what happens when you have an accident? Surely that would be a huge blow to that ultra low budget.

What a lot of people fail to understand is that insurance is just another form of gambling, and as everybody knows when it comes to gambling the house always wins!

If insurance companies paid out more than we paid in, why and how would they stay in business?

I don't think insurances (other than mandatory ones) need to be factored in to a monthly budget as long as you have money in the bank to cover the cost of anything that arises. Only when you spend the money does it then become part of your budget, and there is more chance you won't need to spend it than will.

So I agree having an accident will undoubtedly change your budget, but not for the several years that you probably won't have one.

Once again, great advice from HKP.

Shall we now discuss the finacial impact of having a heart attack/stroke/cancer etc etc????????

Just explain how insurance companies stay in business if they pay out more than people pay in premiums and I'll be happy.

If you want to discuss the financial impact of a heart attack then you also have to discuss the probability of having one during your entire adult life and the cost of paying insurance premiums up until that day.

Insurance companies make billions every year and their profits are continuing to rise despite the global recession. Please explain to simple folk like myself where these profits come from if buying insurance is guaranteed to be economically beneficial for more people than it isn't??

If you don't have any savings and it's the only way you can budget for the unknown future then fair enough. But please don't tell me insurance is financial beneficial to the masses because the numbers show otherwise.

The point is, if you don't buy insurance and don't pay any medical bills for 3 years then why would you need to include insurance in your monthly budget for that 3 year period?

[NamKangMan]

Do all of you less than 20K people not have health, car/mortorbike, house/renters insurance? If not what happens when you have an accident? Surely that would be a huge blow to that ultra low budget.

What a lot of people fail to understand is that insurance is just another form of gambling, and as everybody knows when it comes to gambling the house always wins!

If insurance companies paid out more than we paid in, why and how would they stay in business?

I don't think insurances (other than mandatory ones) need to be factored in to a monthly budget as long as you have money in the bank to cover the cost of anything that arises. Only when you spend the money does it then become part of your budget, and there is more chance you won't need to spend it than will.

So I agree having an accident will undoubtedly change your budget, but not for the several years that you probably won't have one.

Once again, great advice from HKP.

Shall we now discuss the finacial impact of having a heart attack/stroke/cancer etc etc????????

Just explain how insurance companies stay in business if they pay out more than people pay in premiums and I'll be happy.

If you want to discuss the financial impact of a heart attack then you also have to discuss the probability of having one during your entire adult life and the cost of paying insurance premiums up until that day.

Insurance companies make billions every year and their profits are continuing to rise despite the global recession. Please explain to simple folk like myself where these profits come from if buying insurance is guaranteed to be economically beneficial for more people than it isn't??

If you don't have any savings and it's the only way you can budget for the unknown future then fair enough. But please don't tell me insurance is financial beneficial to the masses because the numbers show otherwise.

The point is, if you don't buy insurance and don't pay any medical bills for 3 years then why would you need to include insurance in your monthly budget for that 3 year period?

For example, 100,000 people insure themselves for medical costs involved with having a heart attack - only 5,000 of those people actually have a heart attack - there within lays the profit for the insurance company. Simple math, really. Not sure what you do not understand about it.

Insurance in not an "economical benefit" - it's a liability, like any other bill. Eg. electricity. Insurance, in most cases, is not an "asset."

So, HKP is driving/riding along one day and a drunk farang/bar girl crashes into him - HKP is now a paraplegic - I don't think 3 years of saving insurance premiums is going to cover it, for him, and certainly not his family.

Once again, poor advice from the "if anything bad happens to you on Phuket - it must be your fault" brigade.

[HongKongPhooey]

For example, 100,000 people insure themselves for medical costs involved with having a heart attack - only 5,000 of those people actually have a heart attack - there within lays the profit for the insurance company. Simple math, really. Not sure what you do not understand about it.

Insurance in not an "economical benefit" - it's a liability, like any other bill. Eg. electricity. Insurance, in most cases, is not an "asset."

So, HKP is driving/riding along one day and a drunk farang/bar girl crashes into him - HKP is now a paraplegic - I don't think 3 years of saving insurance premiums is going to cover it, for him, and certainly not his family.

Once again, poor advice from the "if anything bad happens to you on Phuket - it must be your fault" brigade.

What has 'It must be your fault' got to do with anything. Where did I discuss blame? Your posts get less coherent and relevant as the weeks go by!

I wasn't giving any advice so how can it be bad advice? I was stating that the law of averages says you are far more likely to lose money by being insured than you will save it. That is a FACT.

Insurance is perfect for people who don't have a lot of money and need help saving for things that may or may not happen in the future, and they are perfect for people who live in fear, so it doesn't surprise me that you are a huge fan of it!!

Back to the topic: People who live on 20K per month don't need to factor in the cost of insurance for the several years that they don't have any issues. Only when they do have a problem that they have to pay out for will their budget increase for that period of their life. It's pretty much the same which ever way round you do it except one way the odds are against you (buying insurance) and the other they are with you. It simply comes down to whether you want to gamble or not.

Buying insurance is like playing a fruit machine. Some people will win some will lose, but more people will lose than will win that's a FACT. If you are one of the people who get lucky then good for you but it doesn't mean playing the machine in the first place was a clever idea.

Edited May 2, 2012 by HongKongPhooey

[NamKangMan]

For example, 100,000 people insure themselves for medical costs involved with having a heart attack - only 5,000 of those people actually have a heart attack - there within lays the profit for the insurance company. Simple math, really. Not sure what you do not understand about it.

Insurance in not an "economical benefit" - it's a liability, like any other bill. Eg. electricity. Insurance, in most cases, is not an "asset."

So, HKP is driving/riding along one day and a drunk farang/bar girl crashes into him - HKP is now a paraplegic - I don't think 3 years of saving insurance premiums is going to cover it, for him, and certainly not his family.

Once again, poor advice from the "if anything bad happens to you on Phuket - it must be your fault" brigade.

What has 'It must be your fault' got to do with anything. Where did I discuss blame? Your posts get less coherent and relevant as the weeks go by!

I wasn't giving any advice so how can it be bad advice? I was stating that the law of averages says you are far more likely to lose money by being insured than you will save it. That is a FACT.

Insurance is perfect for people who don't have a lot of money and need help saving for things that may or may not happen in the future, and they are perfect for people who live in fear, so it doesn't surprise me that you are a huge fan of it!!

Back to the topic: People who live on 20K per month don't need to factor in the cost of insurance for the several years that they don't have any issues. Only when they do have a problem that they have to pay out for will their budget increase for that period of their life. It's pretty much the same which ever way round you do it except one way the odds are against you (buying insurance) and the other they are with you. It simply comes down to whether you want to gamble or not.

Buying insurance is like playing a fruit machine. Some people will win some will lose, but more people will lose than will win that's a FACT. If you are one of the people who get lucky then good for you but it doesn't mean playing the machine in the first place was a clever idea.

"Life" - is not a "fruit machine." We are all getting older, with every day that passes. Death is a certainy, for all of us. With age, comes increased exposure to illness. Eg: stroke. FACT To use your term - we will all lose on the "fruit machine" of life - the only question is, when.

You may not care for yourself, but you should be thinking of your children. Should you suffer, from whatever means, like a stroke, or a motorbike accident, a catasrophic injury or illness, your earning capacity could be gone, overnight.

Your argument is "I am wealthy, therefore I can self-insure and cover myself against any unforeseen incidents." Let's talk about "liability" then. Say you are at fault one day, in a motor vehicle accident, whether here, or back in the UK, and you cause serious injury to several people. With no insurance, you are up for the bill - you could lose your whole life savings.

It amazes me how many insure their cars against theft and accident damage, but not themselves for illness, injury and liability.

Recently, the whole world was shocked when two superfit and young footballers had heartattacks on the field, with the eyes of the world on them. One in Premier League, who survived, and one in Serie A, who died instantly. Life changing, and life taking, incidents can happen without warning. Many times, it's not the insured person who benefits from an insurance payout, it's the family they leave behind, and if they do not die, but are totally incapacitated, their family who can at least carry on in the lifestyle to which they were acustom to, prior to the incident.

This this post "coherent" for you?

[stevenl]

Say you are at fault one day, in a motor vehicle accident, whether here, or back in the UK, and you cause serious injury to several people. With no insurance, you are up for the bill - you could lose your whole life savings.

It amazes me how many insure their cars against theft and accident damage, but not themselves for illness, injury and liability.

Yes, that would amaze me as well, because nearly everywhere, including UK and Thailand, there is a compulsory liability insurance.

Insurance is IMO very easy: one needs it for major catastrophes that one can't afford/doesn't want to pay for. And of course there should be a reasonable premium/risk relation ship, which IMO is lacking in e.g. disability insurances.

So to translate: I have no disability insurance, do have health insurance covering me for major expenses but not for out patient treatments.

You were on the right track, and then your scaring tactics start again. Even insurance companies have stopped using that tactic because there are more effective sales methods.

This this post "coherent" for you?

LOL Edited May 3, 2012 by stevenl

[hansgruber]

Normally I tend to like hongkongphooey's posts and he brings intelligent debate but he got it wrong here. Insurance is a neccesity and especially here in Thailand. We haven't got access to social security system to come to our aid like back home.

If you're not insured and residing here full time, you're insane.

Its only 800 baht a month for good coverage.

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[KarenBravo]

I'm by nature not a gambler.

The missus gets full medical insurance, it's cheap as she's still in her 30's.

House gets insured just because I have many full-size trees close by that if they came down in a storm, could cause a lot of damage.

Car insurance is compulsory, so, if I have to pay, then I might as well get the best.

The only insurance I don't buy is medical insurance for myself. This is because as soon as I step out the door to go to work, until I step back through it, I am covered by corporate insurance which is the best.

I don't see the point of paying a full year's health insurance when I only need it for five or, six months.

When I finally retire, I'll then take out health insurance for myself.

The irony is that those people that can't afford to take a big hit are the ones that need insurance. The well off can choose.

What value peace of mind?

[Peterocket]

Insurance is a neccesity and especially here in Thailand. We haven't got access to social security system

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

I have Thai Social Security and Health Insurance. Just got my dental treatment paid for by my Thai Social Security that my health insurance doesn't cover...

[KarenBravo]

In a way, HKP is correct when he compares Insurance to gambling, but, he draws the wrong conclusion.

Insurance companies play the law of averages which work very well with large numbers. As the insurance company is dealing with large quantities of customers, they know roughly how many claimants there will be for any particular cause. They price the policies accordingly and that is how they can make a profit (though occasionally they come unstuck with natural disasters).

For the individual, who has to deal with the lowest number (one) these laws don't work.

i.e. If the chances of an event happening is calculated accurately by the insurance company at one in a ten per year, then for ten people, this event will happen to them all over a ten year period. You could be the unlucky one that needs insurance in the first year. For the insurance company, the odds are still one in ten. For the individual its one in one.

This is why insurance makes sense for the individual.

[steelepulse]

From what I've seen over the years, those getting by on 20-30K can't afford insurance so if there's an accident, they end up ringing their friends/family to help. I've seen it a bunch on the forums and also in real life. They generally don't have 1 million baht tucked away for that bad roll of the fruit machine.

[stevehaigh]

i got rid of my BUPA this year because i rarely get sick and when i did have to go to an outpatient thing, like something in my eye once, BUPA didn't cover anyhow.

i do have Bangkok Bank accident insurance which is about 3500b/year and covers 60k per accident or 30k per motorbike accident, which probably is the most likely reason i will even end up in hospital

[NamKangMan]

Say you are at fault one day, in a motor vehicle accident, whether here, or back in the UK, and you cause serious injury to several people. With no insurance, you are up for the bill - you could lose your whole life savings.

It amazes me how many insure their cars against theft and accident damage, but not themselves for illness, injury and liability.

Yes, that would amaze me as well, because nearly everywhere, including UK and Thailand, there is a compulsory liability insurance.

Insurance is IMO very easy: one needs it for major catastrophes that one can't afford/doesn't want to pay for. And of course there should be a reasonable premium/risk relation ship, which IMO is lacking in e.g. disability insurances.

So to translate: I have no disability insurance, do have health insurance covering me for major expenses but not for out patient treatments.

You were on the right track, and then your scaring tactics start again. Even insurance companies have stopped using that tactic because there are more effective sales methods.

This this post "coherent" for you?

LOL

"Yes, that would amaze me as well, because nearly everywhere, including UK and Thailand, there is a compulsory liability insurance." - So, if someone doesn't pay their yearly registration/insurance, their car will not start, is that right? There are unregistered and uninsured cars on the road, sure, they run the risk of being fined by police, but if they haven't paid the bill, they are uninsured.

Yes, I made a typo. The word "This" should have been "Is." But I am curious as to what a "relation ship" is. Is it a ship that your relations sail on? Ahh, that saying about glass houses and stones comes to mind.

I have a question for you. If, God forbid, you were to become permanantly disabled or killed, what would become of you and your family, after death or injury/illness?

There were no scare tactics in my post. There is no "risk" of getting older and dying, that is a FACT that can not be disputed. You will age, and die. The only question is when, and how it will happen.

Injury/illness does have the risk versus premium consideration. It's up to the individual.

Edited May 3, 2012 by NamKangMan

[stevenl]

Say you are at fault one day, in a motor vehicle accident, whether here, or back in the UK, and you cause serious injury to several people. With no insurance, you are up for the bill - you could lose your whole life savings.

It amazes me how many insure their cars against theft and accident damage, but not themselves for illness, injury and liability.

Yes, that would amaze me as well, because nearly everywhere, including UK and Thailand, there is a compulsory liability insurance.

Insurance is IMO very easy: one needs it for major catastrophes that one can't afford/doesn't want to pay for. And of course there should be a reasonable premium/risk relation ship, which IMO is lacking in e.g. disability insurances.

So to translate: I have no disability insurance, do have health insurance covering me for major expenses but not for out patient treatments.

You were on the right track, and then your scaring tactics start again. Even insurance companies have stopped using that tactic because there are more effective sales methods.

This this post "coherent" for you?

LOL

"Yes, that would amaze me as well, because nearly everywhere, including UK and Thailand, there is a compulsory liability insurance." - So, if someone doesn't pay their yearly registration/insure, their car will not start, is that right? There are unregistered and uninsured cars on the road, sure, they run the risk of being fined by police, but if they haven't paid the bill, they are uninsured.

Yes, I made a typo. The word "This" should have been "Is." But I am curious as to what a "relation ship" is. Is it a ship that your relations sail on? Ahh, that saying about glass houses and stones comes to mind.

I have a question for you. If, God forbid, you were to become permanantly disabled or killed, what would become of you and your family, after death or injury/illness?

There were no scare tactics in my post. There is no "risk" of getting older and dying, that is a FACT that can not be disputed. You will age, and die. The only question is when, and how it will happen.

Injury/illness does have the risk versus premium consideration. It's up to the individual.

Ok, I won't go into a discussion with you, as mentioned earlier, there really is no point.

But a few points to clarify:

Of course there are uninsured cars, but that won't be 'many' as claimed in your earlier post, and probably none or nearly none who do have accident/theft insurance.

Trying to divert attention? Yes, you made an error in a correction to somebody else. If correcting others, at least make sure there are no errors in the correction, makes you like a bit silly.

No scare tactics? You're really losing touch with even yourself.

Of course, it all is up to the individual, and all insurances have the risk versus premium consideration. That were real pointless remarks you made there.

Your question I can only answer partially. But if I die for whatever reason my family will be well taken care of, my son is the benificiary of some life insurances and my wife of some other things.If disabled the course of action would depend on the kind of disability.

Edited May 3, 2012 by stevenl

[Hostile17]

From what I've seen over the years, those getting by on 20-30K can't afford insurance so if there's an accident, they end up ringing their friends/family to help. I've seen it a bunch on the forums and also in real life. They generally don't have 1 million baht tucked away for that bad roll of the fruit machine.

But they'll gladly tell you that you're a capitalist pig who doesn't understand life

[simple1]

Insurance is a neccesity and especially here in Thailand. We haven't got access to social security system

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

I have Thai Social Security and Health Insurance. Just got my dental treatment paid for by my Thai Social Security that my health insurance doesn't cover...

Can you please provide the circumstance / info on how you obtained Thai Social Security and Health Insurance.

[F1fanatic]

i got rid of my BUPA this year because i rarely get sick and when i did have to go to an outpatient thing, like something in my eye once, BUPA didn't cover anyhow.

i do have Bangkok Bank accident insurance which is about 3500b/year and covers 60k per accident or 30k per motorbike accident, which probably is the most likely reason i will even end up in hospital

Surely you knew whether your insurance covered outpatient treatment or not?

Having said this, I've been with BUPA since I was around 20 and paid a fortune in premiums, with only 2 small claims. Unfortunately, I am now old enough to realise that getting rid of it at my age would be stupid. My ex-husband made this mistake and it didn't end well .

Those who easily live on 20k bht p.m. (including rent) - I'm in awe and truly impressed.

[mikebike]

Can you please provide the circumstance / info on how you obtained Thai Social Security and Health Insurance.

Work permit and a job should do it - I had my yellow and purple card when I was workin'...

[HongKongPhooey]

UK banks have recently had to pay back billions of pounds to customers who were wrongly sold PPI. (Payment protection insurance) The reason being they hood winked gullible, easily scared people in to buying insurance they didn't need and their tactics and lack of transparency were deemed to be illegal.

I'm not for one minute criticising all insurance, obviously every bodies need to be insured will differ as will their financial situations and their level of fear of the unknown. I said in my first post that insurance is obviously helpful for things that you can't afford to pay for when they happen, so if you have a family then life insurance is probably a must, but many other insurances like medical, dental, household appliances etc are far from a necessity IMO. and the odds are undoubtedly stacked against you.

I didn't mean to take this thread off topic and I wasn't trying to be anti insurance, each to their own and all that. My point was that people should not be criticised for living on a budget that doesn't involve being insured up to the eye balls. IMO insurance isn't something that should be discussed in the same breath as food, rent, utility bills etc, I don't see it as a basic living cost.

If the worst happens while you are uninsured then you may be in for a rough time but that doesn't mean to say that all the people that live without it and who the worst isn't happening to, are being misleading about their budget because they haven't included insurance, because the law of averages says they are highly likely to live a long time without ever needing it.

[LivinginKata]

<snip> I didn't mean to take this thread off topic and I wasn't trying to be anti insurance, each to their own and all that.

You could have fooled me. Let's get back on the original topic.

[HongKongPhooey]

<snip> I didn't mean to take this thread off topic and I wasn't trying to be anti insurance, each to their own and all that.

You could have fooled me. Let's get back on the original topic.

Totally unjustified comment. In every single post I have made, I have discussed insurance in the context of it being part of a budget and in response to the point someone made that people can't say they live on 20k per month because it didn't include insurances.

[LivinginKata]

<snip> I didn't mean to take this thread off topic and I wasn't trying to be anti insurance, each to their own and all that.

You could have fooled me. Let's get back on the original topic.

Totally unjustified comment. In every single post I have made, I have discussed insurance in the context of it being part of a budget and in response to the point someone made that people can't say they live on 20k per month because it didn't include insurances.

But do we need to know "UK banks have recently had to pay back billions of pounds to customers who were wrongly sold PPI ....... etc"

I'll say again. The topic was "Bargain Phuket" and the intent was about "here's my list of ways to save money in Phuket". We have strayed a long way from that starting point.

[Peterocket]

Insurance is a neccesity and especially here in Thailand. We haven't got access to social security system

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

I have Thai Social Security and Health Insurance. Just got my dental treatment paid for by my Thai Social Security that my health insurance doesn't cover...

Can you please provide the circumstance / info on how you obtained Thai Social Security and Health Insurance.

I got a job

[falkan]

all drinks 40bath at seduction monday-thursday

[goober]

all drinks 40bath at seduction monday-thursday

Full of drunk bogan Aussies. Couldn't give me free beer to go.

[digitalchromakey]

- broken tools or blunt saw blades or router bits? there a great repair shop on Jao Faa West about 100m south of the PTT petrol station

It's more like 200m south before the PTT, on the same side of the road at the start of a row of shop houses - you will see several technicians sitting working on stuff out at the front and most importantly they will also fix Power Tools and can rewind electric motors.