Additional Fuel Storage Of Scooters & Stepthroughs

[jamesbrock]

One of the common complaints from riders of scooters and stepthroughs is the lack of range, and necessity to refuel every 150 - 200 km or so. A few of us over in the New Yamaha Nouvo Injected thread, have been discussing the possibly silly idea of additional fuel storage (for example something like this).

Ideally, this bladder would be permanently connected to the fuel system and/or existing fuel tank (thus would be filled and emptied with the existing tank). Possible fitting locations include under the seat for scooters (Mio, Fino, Click, Scoopy, etc.), or, for stepthroughs (Airblade, PCX, Hayate, Nouvo, etc.) - space permitting - in the void below the frame between the feet.

If the procurement, design, and compliance with any applicable regulations could be handled, imagine getting 500-600 km between fills!

It's not a completely silly idea, and presumably others have tried this and failed due to one of the bazillion potential issues, but a poll was suggested, so here it is...

Edited May 2, 2012 by Crossy

[JeffreyMcCollum]

I am all for longer range. On some of my rides where I go fuel can be few and far apart.

All the new Hondas, IE PCX, Click, Wave, Spacy have a 5.5 lt tank or larger. Giveing up nothing in underseat storage and at no additional cost.

Though I would like a system, The costs you suggest are out of line for what you get.

My wave with it;s small 3.7 Lt tank gets me about 200 km. When I know I will need longer I carry my 200 Baht gas can in my basket or on my rack. Does the same thing doubles my range as well as allows me to help others if needed

[Sophon]

Your poll is flawed. If you answer no to question 1 and 2 then the options for question 3 makes no sense.

Sophon

[jamesbrock]

Your poll is flawed. If you answer no to question 1 and 2 then the options for question 3 makes no sense.

Sophon

Yes, I saw that all too late! I can not edit it now.

If any mods or admins are looking, could you possible add a 'Not Applicable' choice to the third question?

[wana]

i am all for the 500-600km range scooter but if its a modification that costs 10-20% of the cost of the actual bike then i would not be so keen

there should be an option in the price category for

(i would like larger tank optional included with purchase price of vehicle )

[PeaceBlondie]

SYM 300 12 Fuel Capacity (liter), Large storage: luggage box is able to put two helmets.

[jamesbrock]

i am all for the 500-600km range scooter but if its a modification that costs 10-20% of the cost of the actual bike then i would not be so keen

there should be an option in the price category for

(i would like larger tank optional included with purchase price of vehicle )

Yep, I agree that over 10% of the cost of the bike the costs begin to outweigh the benefits, but everyone is different and values their money accordingly. Just trying to get all the brackets.

[manarak]

i am all for the 500-600km range scooter but if its a modification that costs 10-20% of the cost of the actual bike then i would not be so keen

there should be an option in the price category for

(i would like larger tank optional included with purchase price of vehicle )

Yep, I agree that over 10% of the cost of the bike the costs begin to outweigh the benefits, but everyone is different and values their money accordingly. Just trying to get all the brackets.

If I could triple the tank capacity of the Nouvo, I would be happy to spend 10k on it. It's not only a question of fuel savings, the station next to me is 3 Km away and not on my usual route, so it is in practice a waste of 6 Km of fuel, a waste of time as well as an increased accident risk, albeit a small one.

Currently I refuel every 2 or 3 days (more 2 than 3), so this means a minimum of about 800 Km per year, or 4 tank fillings, i.e. 600 baht per year, plus 15 minutes lost (waiting time, it's the only station around), i.e. about 2400 minutes, or 40 hours !

In five years, 3000 baht and 200 hours.... brrrr...

Edited April 29, 2012 by manarak

[VocalNeal]

My "real" bike has a 14l tank and I still have to fill up about every 200kms. Whats the big deal?

Manark.

When i lived in Indonesia I used to take a 20 litre container to the gas station also at least 3kms away. Then I would fill up at home until I had to repeat the process. I did it because, simply, it was easier.

EDIT: Rotopax are available in Thailand from 4x4 offroad stores.

Edited April 30, 2012 by VocalNeal

[commande]

Sounds like an interesting idea but I would recommend as another person here did to just take you a big gas can to the filling station. Fill it up and take it home. Gas up at the house, keep a 1 liter bottle in the bike for emergencies. Would probably be the cheapest, easiest and fastest way to solve the problem.

If your on tour plenty of gas stations to stop at along the way between cities. Will be interested to see what you come up with if this ever goes full circle.

Edited April 30, 2012 by commande

[Spoonman]

An extra few litres of fuel under the seat..... would want to be in a well secured tank otherwise I have no desire to be sitting on a molotov cocktail. I'll pass as there is always somewhere to throw some fuel in when the scoot is getting low.

[BigBikeBKK]

Most of my bikes have a range of about 200km.

I don't believe there's anywhere in Thailand that you can go 200km without coming across a gas station.

I keep extra gas at home for times when I don't feel like going to the gas station.

Modifying a scooter to carry extra gas seems like much ado about nothing imho...

[BigBikeBKK]

An extra few litres of fuel under the seat..... would want to be in a well secured tank otherwise I have no desire to be sitting on a molotov cocktail. I'll pass as there is always somewhere to throw some fuel in when the scoot is getting low.

As long as it's in a proper container it's no more dangerous than the fuel in the tank. For example-

[commande]

An extra few litres of fuel under the seat..... would want to be in a well secured tank otherwise I have no desire to be sitting on a molotov cocktail. I'll pass as there is always somewhere to throw some fuel in when the scoot is getting low.

To have an explosion there are 2 basic things that are required, at least in regards to Gas/Benzine. 1 is Heat and 2 is Pressure. A plastic bottle will not be able to store up enough energy pressure to explode like a bomb nor is there enough heat to start the gas on fire. Don't believe me, take a bottle of gas and pour it into a skillet, heat it, the fuel will boil and smoke before ever getting to the point of catching on fire (just be very careful of the fumes as they are toxic and dangerious)- need oxygen to burn right, sealed bottle has very little oxygen in it, not enough to cause the liquid to burn.

No need to go into the pressure needed after adding heat to make it explode - but it's more than you would ever be able to induce yourself unless you are swinging at it with a 50 pound hammer and everything else, heat and oxygen content are correct which they wouldn't be.

It really is safer than you think... Guys in Africa drive around with gas cans strapped to the back of their trucks all the time in 50-60c temperatures bouncing around on the roads, they don't explode even when involved in an accident and rolling the vehicle. Don't believe everything you see on television ...

Did I forget to mention you are already sitting on the gas tank when riding a scooter

Edited April 30, 2012 by commande

[TommoPhysicist]

I had to make a silly last vote as you had no box for 'no cost'.

I find a few empty fanta bottles under the seat or in a bag work very well.

Edited April 30, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Spoonman]

An extra few litres of fuel under the seat..... would want to be in a well secured tank otherwise I have no desire to be sitting on a molotov cocktail. I'll pass as there is always somewhere to throw some fuel in when the scoot is getting low.

As long as it's in a proper container it's no more dangerous than the fuel in the tank. For example-

An extra few litres of fuel under the seat..... would want to be in a well secured tank otherwise I have no desire to be sitting on a molotov cocktail. I'll pass as there is always somewhere to throw some fuel in when the scoot is getting low.

To have an explosion there are 2 things you must have, at least in regards to Gas/Benzine. 1 is Heat and 2 is Pressure. A plastic bottle will not be able to store up enough energy pressure to explode like a bomb nor is there enough heat to start the gas on fire. Don't believe me, take a bottle of gas and pour it into a skillet, heat it, the fuel with boil and smoke before ever getting to the point of catching on fire - need oxygen to burn right, sealed bottle has very little oxygen in it, not enough to cause the liquid to burn.

No need to go into the pressure needed after adding heat to make it explode - but it's more than you would ever be able to induce yourself unless you are swinging at it with a 50 pound hammer and everything else, heat and oxygen content are correct which they wouldn't be.

It really is safer than you think... Guys in Africa drive around with gas cans strapped to the back of their trucks all the time in 50-60c temperatures bouncing around on the roads, they don't explode even when involved in an accident and rolling the vehicle. Don't believe everything you see on television ...

Did I forget to mention you are already sitting on the gas tank when riding a scooter

If the extra capacity container is not going to be plumbed in I might as well just fill my camel back with fuel and carry a funnel under the seat.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Spoonman

[commande]

It would definitely work - just don't take a drink by accident, that would suck!!!

[Spoonman]

It would definitely work - just don't take a drink by accident, that would suck!!!

Be fine till I stopped for a ciggie break !!!

[manarak]

The 10l jerrycan at home is probably the best option.

Must say I rarely drive more than 200 Km without coming home, and indeed there are enough stations along the road when I drive more than that.

[wana]

I had to make a silly last vote as you had no box for 'no cost'.

I find a few empty fanta bottles under the seat or in a bag work very well.

does gasohol not eat through your fanta bottles ?

[BlackArtemis]

I just got a new Honda Chaly to tinker with, since I plan on doing a Honda nice 110cc and eventually a bore up kit to somewhere around 150-180cc I would love the extra fuel capacity. I might have to make it custom though since the Chaly market is quite small.

[Fishenough]

i am all for the 500-600km range scooter but if its a modification that costs 10-20% of the cost of the actual bike then i would not be so keen

there should be an option in the price category for

(i would like larger tank optional included with purchase price of vehicle )

Curious about the reason you would want to extended fuel range; do you want 500-600 km range for around town driving without having to stop for fuel, or do you want to have the option to ride continuously for 500-600 km?

In my 20's I would drive 400 + km's at times with out stopping, heck for years in the town I was born in there was 380 km's between gas stations on the only road into town. But in Thailand?

[VocalNeal]

I have been pondering. In the late 60's early 70's 225 and 250 Lambrettas would forgo the glove/tool box and have an extra tank fitted in its place. But this was for touring.

So if the idea is to make an additional fuel tank I think the market would be quite small. From my observation most people buy fuel in monetary units and don't fill up so they are not concerned with range. Most people with step-thrus don't travel very far they are used primarily for local transport. Any more than village to village and they take the bus.

If traveling out of town stopping every 200kms is not a big deal. BUT there is always the uncertainty. Certainly a small 1l container molded to fit under the seat would be nice but requires a different mold for each bike.

Its so called technology! Now they fit fuel gauges instead of a reserve fuel cock. Us older guys used to ride until the engine coughed, switch to reserve and look for a gas station.

Buy a 600ml aluminium water bottle (as shown) and use that for emergency supply. Paint it orange if you have to!

[Crossy]

I've added a Not Applicable to question 3

[jamesbrock]

I've added a Not Applicable to question 3

Great! Thanks!

[wana]

i am all for the 500-600km range scooter but if its a modification that costs 10-20% of the cost of the actual bike then i would not be so keen

there should be an option in the price category for

(i would like larger tank optional included with purchase price of vehicle )

Curious about the reason you would want to extended fuel range; do you want 500-600 km range for around town driving without having to stop for fuel, or do you want to have the option to ride continuously for 500-600 km?

In my 20's I would drive 400 + km's at times with out stopping, heck for years in the town I was born in there was 380 km's between gas stations on the only road into town. But in Thailand?

i would just prefer to fill it once a week ,rather than every 2 days

theres plenty of gas stations in bangkok but an elegance with a 12 litre tank would appeal to me

for the sake of convenience

similar to buying 4 x 24 packs of beer when i go to the supermarket ,instead of stopping at the 7-11

every day and buying another 6 or 12 bottles as i drink them

[Fishenough]

Curious about the reason you would want to extended fuel range; do you want 500-600 km range for around town driving without having to stop for fuel, or do you want to have the option to ride continuously for 500-600 km?

In my 20's I would drive 400 + km's at times with out stopping, heck for years in the town I was born in there was 380 km's between gas stations on the only road into town. But in Thailand?

i would just prefer to fill it once a week ,rather than every 2 days

theres plenty of gas stations in bangkok but an elegance with a 12 litre tank would appeal to me

for the sake of convenience

similar to buying 4 x 24 packs of beer when i go to the supermarket ,instead of stopping at the 7-11

every day and buying another 6 or 12 bottles as i drink them

Makes sense, but when I have a couple of 24 packs of beer Laos in the house I drink far too much. That analogy doesn't work with me, even more so with scotch and wine. But with 12 liters of fuel onboard I bet you'd be driving the same amount, maybe even less because you don't have to make separate runs to the fuel pumps.

[manarak]

Curious about the reason you would want to extended fuel range; do you want 500-600 km range for around town driving without having to stop for fuel, or do you want to have the option to ride continuously for 500-600 km?

In my 20's I would drive 400 + km's at times with out stopping, heck for years in the town I was born in there was 380 km's between gas stations on the only road into town. But in Thailand?

i would just prefer to fill it once a week ,rather than every 2 days

theres plenty of gas stations in bangkok but an elegance with a 12 litre tank would appeal to me

for the sake of convenience

similar to buying 4 x 24 packs of beer when i go to the supermarket ,instead of stopping at the 7-11

every day and buying another 6 or 12 bottles as i drink them

Makes sense, but when I have a couple of 24 packs of beer Laos in the house I drink far too much. That analogy doesn't work with me, even more so with scotch and wine. But with 12 liters of fuel onboard I bet you'd be driving the same amount, maybe even less because you don't have to make separate runs to the fuel pumps.

That were my initial thoughts too. But a 10 Liter reserve at home works too, how ever I would appreciate the convenience to put it all in my tank at once and rather not have a jerrycan to drag to and back from the station (which forces to do a special trip just for that, because there is no way to lock the jerrycan in the bike).

A Nouvo with a 12 liter tank would indeed work best for me, and there is plenty of space on either side of the upper portion of the back wheel for a U shaped kevlar-coated tank.

Edited May 3, 2012 by manarak

[ttakata]

Not for me but its a cool project.

I have the old carb version of the NE135, but can assume like most gastanks that the fuel line runs into the bottom of the gas tank.

I'm not sure if the FI version has a fuel pump or not but that would be critical to know regarding where extra fuel can go because the extra gas has to be gravity fed or the fuel pump has to be powerful enough to pump the fuel.

The easiest sure bet would be to get a rear rack, and mount a fuel tank to it and then let gravity feed the extra fuel to the top of the stock gas tank.

For faster filling, I'd also add an extra hose from the stock tank through the extra tank to allow the air to vent out of the stock tank.

This would allow for faster filling of gas.

Other wise it would faster to fill the stock tank first, and then fill the extra tank after the stock tank is sealed up.

Edited May 5, 2012 by ttakata

[Totster]

i am all for the 500-600km range scooter but if its a modification that costs 10-20% of the cost of the actual bike then i would not be so keen

there should be an option in the price category for

(i would like larger tank optional included with purchase price of vehicle )

Yep, I agree that over 10% of the cost of the bike the costs begin to outweigh the benefits, but everyone is different and values their money accordingly. Just trying to get all the brackets.

If I could triple the tank capacity of the Nouvo, I would be happy to spend 10k on it. It's not only a question of fuel savings, the station next to me is 3 Km away and not on my usual route, so it is in practice a waste of 6 Km of fuel, a waste of time as well as an increased accident risk, albeit a small one.

Currently I refuel every 2 or 3 days (more 2 than 3), so this means a minimum of about 800 Km per year, or 4 tank fillings, i.e. 600 baht per year, plus 15 minutes lost (waiting time, it's the only station around), i.e. about 2400 minutes, or 40 hours !

In five years, 3000 baht and 200 hours.... brrrr...

Really, is your life that busy ??

totster