Thinking About A New Pickup

[chiang mai]

I've already agreed that a crash between virtually any pickup truck and a Honda Jazz leaves the Jazz in the worse state, a crash between those two vehicle types is not the point however!

[chiang mai]

Anyone who thinks they are safe or safer in a pickup truck is simply deluding themselves. Have a look in your local Police station compound at all the smashed up ones. I looked at a black Vigo 4 x4 double cab recently in our town, it was doing a good impression of an empty LEO can that had been stamped on.

Crumple zones, allegedly.

[stevenl]

Anyone who thinks they are safe or safer in a pickup truck is simply deluding themselves. Have a look in your local Police station compound at all the smashed up ones. I looked at a black Vigo 4 x4 double cab recently in our town, it was doing a good impression of an empty LEO can that had been stamped on.

So? Compare it to another car in the same impact and you know something, a statement like yours is meaningless.

[chiang mai]

You guys that are making these comparions between Jazz and P/U or P/U and and any other vehicle in the same crash are missing the point. You cannot choose the circumstances nor other players in your next accident, P/U drivers just better hope for their sakes that it is indeed a Jazz or similar, that's why the crash test/safety data is important because your next accident might be with a semi,. a Mack truck or a concrete post and not a Jazz.

[guzzi850m2]

You guys that are making these comparions between Jazz and P/U or P/U and and any other vehicle in the same crash are missing the point. You cannot choose the circumstances nor other players in your next accident, P/U drivers just better hope for their sakes that it is indeed a Jazz or similar, that's why the crash test/safety data is important because your next accident might be with a semi,. a Mack truck or a concrete post and not a Jazz.

Correct you can't choose the accident but then again I fell I got better odds in a pick-up or suv compared to a sedan (I am talking new models here for all 3 types of vehicle). I got my family in the car to think of as well and my wife drives herself when I am overseas working, so I repeat; I want the best possible odds for her and our son if the shit hits the fan.

When we drive up to Isaan I fell very "small" in our City among all those pick-ups, many of them hardly/not road worthy.

[chiang mai]

You guys that are making these comparions between Jazz and P/U or P/U and and any other vehicle in the same crash are missing the point. You cannot choose the circumstances nor other players in your next accident, P/U drivers just better hope for their sakes that it is indeed a Jazz or similar, that's why the crash test/safety data is important because your next accident might be with a semi,. a Mack truck or a concrete post and not a Jazz.

Correct you can't choose the accident but then again I fell I got better odds in a pick-up or suv compared to a sedan (I am talking new models here for all 3 types of vehicle). I got my family in the car to think of as well and my wife drives herself when I am overseas working, so I repeat; I want the best possible odds for her and our son if the shit hits the fan.

When we drive up to Isaan I fell very "small" in our City among all those pick-ups, many of them hardly/not road worthy.

I can agree about the odds and the comfort factor, having said that I haven't had an accident in nine years here or indeed ever in 45 years of driving so I must be doing something right, regardless of what vehicle I drive.

[Backwoods]

Crash tests seem to favor who is paying for the treat also, and reading many, not all give you the straight up answer! Anyways the OP was asking about buying not crash test results. Most choices on a PU is preference, price and delivery time! I oredered a new Ford and after waiting 4 months and no answer when I would get it, bought a Toyota. Do your homework and check all and then chck several of same dealer for brand you choose. I would trust all as much as I would one here. I went with a proven truck and am happy with my choice, but you will catch flack here no matter whaich way you go! My advice is get what you want, look around and you will find it!

[stevenl]

Might be important: take into account delivery time of parts.

I was involved in an accident, nothing outrageous but car could not drive anymore, and have to wait 6 weeks!! for the parts to be delivered from Nissan Japan.

[Jitar]

Pick ups have a lot of advantages in Thailand. Thai tax and marketing make pick ups very good value compared to cars. The extra clearance of pick ups helps a lot when Thai roads are badly maintained or flooded.

The safety compromises with pick ups have reduced but some are still there. A modern pick up with good crash test results and airbags, driven appropriately will have crash safety comparable to that of a similar size car. However the high centre of mass and pick up brakes and tyres are not going to give you the same response as a good performance car. The key is to drive within the limits of the vehicle (and driver) to keep the probability of a crash as low. as possible.

Safety is a complex combination of crash probability and crash perfomance. One thing is certian when any vehicle hits something hard, it smashes up regardless of whether it is a car or pick up. Both small cars and old pickups have some disadvantages in a collisions but people are killed in S class Mercedes too. Over reliance on percieved safety benefits like pick up toughness, ABS, Airbags, stability controls etc can also be a hazard. Some research has suggested ABS has not reduced collisions as expected because of an insideous effect on some driver behaviour leading to higher likelyhood of speed or tailgating etc.

On Thai roads you can usually rely on surprises. Best thing you can do what ever you are in is drive accordingly.

[Darrel]

The safety compromises with pick ups have reduced but some are still there. A modern pick up with good crash test results and airbags, driven appropriately will have crash safety comparable to that of a similar size car. However the high centre of mass and pick up brakes and tyres are not going to give you the same response as a good performance car. The key is to drive within the limits of the vehicle (and driver) to keep the probability of a crash as low. as possible.

Interesting comments. Thanks.

[transam]

The safety compromises with pick ups have reduced but some are still there. A modern pick up with good crash test results and airbags, driven appropriately will have crash safety comparable to that of a similar size car. However the high centre of mass and pick up brakes and tyres are not going to give you the same response as a good performance car. The key is to drive within the limits of the vehicle (and driver) to keep the probability of a crash as low. as possible.

Interesting comments. Thanks.

The Vigo 4x4 Handbook actually states the above facts, mines in English.

[caphant]

Id get the isuzu over the chev if resale is a concern but if chev has more incentives then id consider them. The ford ranger 2.2 auto 4dr xlt was great and within your price range but id inquire when delivery is or if you are fine with the looks check out the mazda bt50, these are more substantial trucks than the chev/isuzu offering. I think the toyota is too long in the tooth, the nissan navara is dangerous in a collision, the triton is a decent truck which has less road presense but is a great drive and marginally easier to drive the back sois.

edit: just read about crash safety comments above.

Of course a sedan will have better active safety if driven with equal care in same conditions as the heavier large pickup is less gainly in evasive manuevers (though i do well enough with mine). Its the passive safety of the truck which matters, trucks ride higher and are heavier this leads to a much better outcome for the truck in a collision with a sedan. Nissan navara, old dmax/colorado and ranger/bt50 had dangerous offset results, but the new trucks especially the ranger appear to test very well. With side airbags on the 3.2wild track id rather be in that ranger than my e65 7 series in a collision. Number 1 safety measure is not airbags or a cars structural integrity its the drivers ability and judgement.

Edited May 30, 2012 by caphant

[ignis]

2012 Isuzu D-Max

Pickup 2dr Ext. Cab Hi-Lander Z-Prestige Auto 5sp RWD 2.5DCT (VGS, Navi) 778,000 baht.

2012 Chevrolet Colorado

Pickup 2dr Ext. Cab LT Z71 Auto 5sp RWD 2.8DCT 775,000 baht

2012 Nissan Frontier Navara

Pickup 2dr Ext. Cab GT Calibre LE Auto 5sp RWD 2.5DCT 726,000 baht

[Darrel]

2012 Isuzu D-Max

Pickup 2dr Ext. Cab Hi-Lander Z-Prestige Auto 5sp RWD 2.5DCT (VGS, Navi) 778,000 baht.

2012 Chevrolet Colorado

Pickup 2dr Ext. Cab LT Z71 Auto 5sp RWD 2.8DCT 775,000 baht

2012 Nissan Frontier Navara

Pickup 2dr Ext. Cab GT Calibre LE Auto 5sp RWD 2.5DCT 726,000 baht

There are a few others also, but the NIssan seems to give the best value for money.

I'm curious as to where you got that price though as everywhere I have been has quoted 735K for that Navara?

[steelepulse]

Looks like it's from the Thailand red book http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/th/home.php?lang=en

[ignis]

Thai friend has a 4 door Calibre LE Auto, it is nice but for the thirst, he get combined just 8 km per lt,!!! long runs and around BKK worked out every 10,000 km, another Thai friend has the D-Max Auto, he is happy with just under 11 km per lt....... Both have steel canopies, both are self employed Business owners, most times truck is fully loaded.

​Yes price from the Thai Red Book just easier than going to each website

[Darrel]

Thai friend has a 4 door Calibre LE Auto, it is nice but for the thirst, he get combined just 8 km per lt,!!! long runs and around BKK worked out every 10,000 km, another Thai friend has the D-Max Auto, he is happy with just under 11 km per lt......

That's a big difference.

Mine would never be loaded and would probably never have more than one person in it, but even so.

[poanoi]

We are going in the opposite direction, you and i.

I'm thinking of selling the bikes because i'm so fed up with traffic jam i can't stand it no longer,

a car will multiply the hassle with a factor of 50, or more.

And then you will also have a whole lot of more trouble of finding a parking space

that will not result in a fine, and that is less than 500 meters away from where you wanted to park.

My friend has a car and comes over here to Pattaya once a week or so.

He swear over the unbearable traffic jam and now park that car ASAP.

and then use a bike.

Edited May 30, 2012 by poanoi

[ignis]

Thai friend has a 4 door Calibre LE Auto, it is nice but for the thirst, he get combined just 8 km per lt,!!! long runs and around BKK worked out every 10,000 km, another Thai friend has the D-Max Auto, he is happy with just under 11 km per lt......

That's a big difference.

Mine would never be loaded and would probably never have more than one person in it, but even so.

Yes..... Have owned 3 x D-Max over the years the last was a 2008 which I sold last year, now have a BT 50 Hi-Racer+ all are/were 2 door. manual, with canopy, and mostly near full in the back most of the time [car/truck parts some can be very heavy] still get around 14 km per lt...

truck is used for business 120,000+ km per year so a Auto Calibre would cost far to much to run.

Edit: another Thai friend has a new 2012 Chevrolet Colorado 4 door Auto, he says gets over 11 km per lt,

Edited May 30, 2012 by ignis

[Jitar]

Idividual drivers fuel consumption is difficult to compare fairly with varying vehicle use and driving style. Most of the current pickups have similar versions sold in Australia (the current Holden = Chev and the previous model = Previous Isuzu). The Australian Standard fuel consumption figures are published in various places, e.g. http://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au. These figures are not 100% real world but the combined and city figures are good for comparison and close to the range I get with Mitsubishi and Toyotas on highway / secondary roads in Thailand. The results for the Diesel 4x4 auto 4 door utes / pick ups are:

km/L Comb City Highway Colorado (Isuzu) 11.1 9.2 12.7 Colorado (Chev) 11.0 8.6 13.2 Hilux 4X4 10.8 8.5 12.7 Triton 10.4 8.4 12.0 Navara 9.5 7.9 10.9 Ranger 10.4 8.2 12.3 BT-50 10.9 8.5 12.8

I wonder how Mazda get a better result than Ford? The rest seems consistent with Thai folklore about Isuzu economy and Nissan thirst. The order is a little different for manual transmissions.

[Jitar]

Ops, that chart format did not paste accross. Try the attached jpg

[stevenl]

Thai friend has a 4 door Calibre LE Auto, it is nice but for the thirst, he get combined just 8 km per lt,!!! long runs and around BKK worked out every 10,000 km, another Thai friend has the D-Max Auto, he is happy with just under 11 km per lt....... Both have steel canopies, both are self employed Business owners, most times truck is fully loaded.

​Yes price from the Thai Red Book just easier than going to each website

I used to have/am in posession at the moment of:

Isuzu 2.5 SLX, about 1 liter to 13k, M/T 5 gears;

Isuzu 3.0 LS, about 1 liter to 10k, A/T 4 gears;

Nissan 2.5 LE, about 1 liter to 10k, M/T 6 gears.

All numbers for the same kind of driving, so comparable.

Edited May 31, 2012 by stevenl

[Jitar]

Stevenl, Your figures suggest the Nissan is thirsty compared to Isuzu as well. Are your trucks 2WD or 4WD? Does the Nissan have more power?

[stevenl]

Stevenl, Your figures suggest the Nissan is thirsty compared to Isuzu as well. Are your trucks 2WD or 4WD? Does the Nissan have more power?

Isuzu LS is 4WD, nearly always driven 2WD though, the others 2WD. And yes, the Nissan is more thirsty than Isuzu.

[Darrel]

Presumably there isnt much of a difference in consumption between a 2WD vehicle and the 4WD version of the same vehicle with the same engine but being used in 2WD mode? I'm supposing that the difference would be a lot less than that between a manual box and an automatic one (which is generally assumed to be somewhere between 5-10%)?

Over the life of the vehicle, even allowing for lower diesel prices, the difference in consumption between the Nissan and its rivals could add up to a lot of Baht. This is making me have second thoughts about my choice.

Such a shame that the choice of A/T 2WD 2-door diesel models is so limited.

[transam]

Presumably there isnt much of a difference in consumption between a 2WD vehicle and the 4WD version of the same vehicle with the same engine but being used in 2WD mode? I'm supposing that the difference would be a lot less than that between a manual box and an automatic one (which is generally assumed to be somewhere between 5-10%)?

Over the life of the vehicle, even allowing for lower diesel prices, the difference in consumption between the Nissan and its rivals could add up to a lot of Baht. This is making me have second thoughts about my choice.

Such a shame that the choice of A/T 2WD 2-door diesel models is so limited.

Only difference between 2 and 4 WD in 2 WD is the carried weight of the extra components of the 4WD. As l said before the Toyota diesel has max torque at a very low 1400 RPM, and thats where you want the grunt.

[Jitar]

My experience is not too different to Stevenl. My Pajero Sport does around 10km/L in 2WD or 4WD. Super select just disconnects drive in 2WD and does not stop the drag as Mitsu do not have true free wheeling hubs. I'd guess a 2WD version of the same vehicle would probably be less than 0.5km/L better off. 4WD system adds a bit of weight, higher clearance and sometimes slightly bigger tyres and engine / more HP (like Nissan) which all reduces fuel consumption a little.

Our Ford Ranger 2.5L 2WD does about 12km/L in similar driving to my PJS. 20% more but it is lighter, less power, lower with smaller tyres and a manual trans. The upmarket pickups and PPVs with all the nice gear are a lot more fuel hungry than the cheap basic manual 2WD versions.

Most of the manufacturers bundle the auto with the higher price models making it a pretty significant add on to the purchase cost. Many of the upmarket models do not even have a manual trans option. Its bad luck if you are a buyer wanting a combination of equipment not popular in Thailand.

[edgarfriendly]

Its bad luck if you are a buyer human wanting a combination of equipment level of satisfaction not popular in Thailand.

[jeffcool]

Presumably there isnt much of a difference in consumption between a 2WD vehicle and the 4WD version of the same vehicle with the same engine but being used in 2WD mode? I'm supposing that the difference would be a lot less than that between a manual box and an automatic one (which is generally assumed to be somewhere between 5-10%)?

Over the life of the vehicle, even allowing for lower diesel prices, the difference in consumption between the Nissan and its rivals could add up to a lot of Baht. This is making me have second thoughts about my choice.

Such a shame that the choice of A/T 2WD 2-door diesel models is so limited.

Hi Darel,

Just wanted to know if you finalize your choice on a pick up model>

I am myself looking and have the same spec as you do......

I tend to go for a Triton Smart Cab.....

Can you share your experience?