Mushroom Farming

[ray23]

This mushroom farming seems to involve an awful lot of faffing about.

Are the returns THAT good? It seems very involved and time consuming (and, TBH, boring)

More of a hobby/business than anything from what i have seen on the subject

Penkoprod

I suppose it depends on whether you want or need to make money. Yes it's very involved and can be exhausting and dirty work, but the returns ARE good especially when you consider the area that you need to put your mushroom houses. The money isn't as good as having rubber trees, but to make a decent living from rubber trees, you need 50 rai upwards. If you plant new trees you have to wait at least 7 years beofre the first baht comes in. With mushrooms, you only need 120 sq. metres for a decent set-up, and ( we ) get paid cash every day for what we've harvested.. The more work and mushroom houses we have, the more we earn..... Personally, I need to do something to occupy my time rather than become one of the many farangs I know whose whole existance in Thailand revolves around going to the same dingy bar every night and moan endlessly about Thailand and it's people, and the rest of the time sat in front of the pc.

That is priceless, your going to be doing something. Do you do the spores yourself? That seems to be considerable work. But, more profitable

No point doing the spores ourselves Ray, we only use between 90 and 120 bags per batch of mushrooms. They only cost us 12 baht per bag all said and done. Now, if we were growing the same variety of mushrooms as you are, that would be another story. And Ray, I've got to be doing something so I can catch you up and be one baht behind you.....

Maybe I should stop complaining about nine naht, but we are doing things in the Thousands.

[finnomick1]

You must be doing something right Ray -- a newcomer to our area built his mushroom shed, 8 metres by 12 metres then got all the gear in to make his own spores. After 6000 bags, he did a costing exercise and found his bags were working out at 15 baht each. I believe he is now going to buy them in at a similar price to yours.

[ray23]

Ya that is what is scaring me, when I looked through the last thread I posted. It is serious buisness. mess up and you more then likely you won't get any product. The most expensive aspect seem to be in the heat required to sterilize as you go

I will still spend a few days seeing how it's done. Before I throw in the towel.

Right now I have cheap labor available. Jan. 1 that could change rapidly. Right now minimim wage in Udon is 239 baht, on the first of Jan. that goes to 300 baht a day. I can see a lot of man hours involved in the process. So lot's of things to think about.

Cahing Mia you vagt get them from 7 to 8 bhat a bag. But, that is very long ways from Udon

[finnomick1]

Ya that is what is scaring me, when I looked through the last thread I posted. It is serious buisness. mess up and you more then likely you won't get any product. The most expensive aspect seem to be in the heat required to sterilize as you go

I will still spend a few days seeing how it's done. Before I throw in the towel.

Right now I have cheap labor available. Jan. 1 that could change rapidly. Right now minimim wage in Udon is 239 baht, on the first of Jan. that goes to 300 baht a day. I can see a lot of man hours involved in the process. So lot's of things to think about.

Cahing Mia you vagt get them from 7 to 8 bhat a bag. But, that is very long ways from Udon

Alright Ray,

the new gadger admitted one of his biggest mistakes was to build a gas fired steamer ( and I had even thought of doing that for my setup but listened to and took the advice of the local mushroom growers who have ' seen ' it all before). The first 6000 bags went through 6 bottles of gas -- 1800 baht around here. We use wood to fire a ' saddle boiler ' which is a pain because you have to stoke it almost every 30 minutes. To steam our three mushroom houses, it takes approximately 15 hours -- that's on a good day when we get all three done the same day. If we only get two done and have to start again the next day it turns into a long job.

As regards getting your bags from anywhere to anywhere in Thailand, could you use the bus service ? I know CM to Udon is a long way. We sometimes get our fishing shop stock via bus but it only has to travel about 60kms -- cost 35 baht. Another mate of mine had his motorbike sent by EMS post from Chiang Rai to Mukdahan -- another possibility maybe ?

[plopmeister]

Ya that is what is scaring me, when I looked through the last thread I posted. It is serious buisness. mess up and you more then likely you won't get any product. The most expensive aspect seem to be in the heat required to sterilize as you go

I will still spend a few days seeing how it's done. Before I throw in the towel.

Right now I have cheap labor available. Jan. 1 that could change rapidly. Right now minimim wage in Udon is 239 baht, on the first of Jan. that goes to 300 baht a day. I can see a lot of man hours involved in the process. So lot's of things to think about.

Cahing Mia you vagt get them from 7 to 8 bhat a bag. But, that is very long ways from Udon

Alright Ray,

the new gadger admitted one of his biggest mistakes was to build a gas fired steamer ( and I had even thought of doing that for my setup but listened to and took the advice of the local mushroom growers who have ' seen ' it all before). The first 6000 bags went through 6 bottles of gas -- 1800 baht around here. We use wood to fire a ' saddle boiler ' which is a pain because you have to stoke it almost every 30 minutes. To steam our three mushroom houses, it takes approximately 15 hours -- that's on a good day when we get all three done the same day. If we only get two done and have to start again the next day it turns into a long job.

Isn't it a bit hot removing and inserting the bags into and out of the oven in the same day and do they have time to cool before you put the spores in??

I tend to do one a day and it is the one job I quite enjoy and I must admit that I am pretty darned good at it by using a minimal amount of wood..

[mike123ca]

Could someone tell me, after the mushroom has been harvested. The bags that were used to grow the mushrooms do they get returned or

do you just keep them?

[tingtong]

just keep them.

[pigeonjake]

hi guys, ive just been looking at mushroom growing on u tube, very good lots to look at, well good for me maybe not for the experts here, there rooms didnt seem to be to dark? ,

have a look you never know

jake

[ray23]

just keep them.

They make excellent fertilizer or compost. Actually our guy takes them away. We met a young guy this morning who knows how to do this. He says 30K including equipment and the materials for the first batch. Right now like everyone else in Udon these days is busy in contruction. He has agreed to show us what to do Thai style. So I will take a look at that when things slow down for him.

[finnomick1]

just keep them.

They make excellent fertilizer or compost. Actually our guy takes them away. We met a young guy this morning who knows how to do this. He says 30K including equipment and the materials for the first batch. Right now like everyone else in Udon these days is busy in contruction. He has agreed to show us what to do Thai style. So I will take a look at that when things slow down for him.

Now then Ray,

Obviously I don't know the guy you mention or his credentials BUT please be a bit careful. There are many people out there who say they come from a government or Royal scheme. And scheme it is ! The newbie I wrote to you about had two women turn up at his house. They had heard he was going to ' do ' things to some land. They said they could help him and it wouldn't cost him anything. They stayed at his house for a week and ' advised ' him on what to do and what not to do. The bottom line was that everything he needed to buy would be supplied by them. One of the things was liquid fertiliser. They promised him a couple of hundred 250 litre plastic drums -- new ( ! ) for 600 baht a piece. When they arrived they were all second hand and he had to purge them. Both timely and costly. Of course, by this time these two women had moved on but not before he tried to introduce them to my misses. They told us they could do this and that etc etc but my misses beat them at every point and eventually told them to p_** off in no uncertain terms. If he hadn't already learnt his lesson, he got an ' expert ' from southern thailand who was supposed to be a monk who lectured on the whole grwing cenario of mushrooms including the spores. He said he got paid up to 500 baht an hour at some Universities lecturing. Now, we ALL know monks aren't supposed to have any money etc., so how did he get round this ?

Ray, your lad may be genuine, but be careful...

[ray23]

Ya that's absolute here, he is a friend of a friend. That doesn't make him an expert. I got more time then money. So I will be checking other things first. One of the joy's of doing his learning, Sure ainlt going get ricj unless you go big time as some of the guys have here. I simply don't think I have the market for that. But, who knows I beleive Udon is somewhere around the third largest city in Thailand these days

[ray23]

After reviewing all that I can find. once you have the quipment the biggest expense is in getting the heat needed. Will Charcoal work?

[finnomick1]

After reviewing all that I can find. once you have the quipment the biggest expense is in getting the heat needed. Will Charcoal work?

Now then Ray, charcoal will work, but charcoal is the residue from burning wood under certain conditions, so why pay for charcoal when you can get wood more easily ? You can still achieve your heat from wood too. I don't want to sound patronising, but you also have to know how to control your fire. I'm from the UK and every winter I would supplement my central heating system with an open wood fire in the living room. Your main heat comes from the red-glowing embers at the bottom of the fire, not the flames at the top of the fire. Believe me, I had a lot of trouble convincing the misses about this. She would go to the boiler and poker the wood and scrape the embers aside. I told her she was removing all the heat from the fire every time she did this. She wouldn't have it. So I simply took her hand and went to the mushroom house thermometer which had already plunged below the 60 degrees we needed to show her the effect of her actions. She didn't say anything, but she has never fiddled about with the fire again. She now does exactly what I do and we don't have any more problems..... You can use bamboo but this burns very quickly but it does get the fire going nicely. Small branches are a waste of time because you are continually feeding them into the fire and all they do is produce a mountain of ash. Eucalyptus is good. It burns well and there is very little ash from it. Palm trees don't burn too well either even when they're dry. We put all sorts in the boiler but I check it every 15 minutes to see how the fire is burning.

Our mushrooms have started to show, so we'll probably start picking in the next couple of days. Hopefully a bumper harvest but with this rain every day we are having to be very careful to keep the temperatures up. Straw mushrooms don't like it cold unlike oyster mushrooms. Strange eh ?

Tingtong, if you still want to visit, I'd say sometime in the next 4 to 6 days should show you a good crop.

[GilleThai]

Bit of topic, but since the mushroom houses needs to be steamed, It might be worth looking into.

If wood it the preferred fuel source, a "oversized" rocket stove would probably be the best choice for steam production. I have build 2 simple rocket stoves for boiling 25 litre pots of water (for boiling crab), and the fuel efficiency is very good (complete combustion). The downside is that the simpler models require attendance about every 10 minutes to push in the wood-sticks. Have seen larger non-movable version that are to some extend self feeding with the wood inlet tilted at a 45 degree angle.

[ray23]

Just looking at alternatives.

Thought Charcoal might require less upkeep adn less then LPG.

Steaming the house?

You got a photo of the rocket stove. Cold is not a problem here in Thailand

[ray23]

Found the rocket stove design, does look like a better heat source.

[pigeonjake]

• hello ray,if you go onto u tube there is loads on there showing you how to make rocket stoves,
  
• jake
  

[finnomick1]

Just looking at alternatives.

Thought Charcoal might require less upkeep adn less then LPG.

Steaming the house?

You got a photo of the rocket stove. Cold is not a problem here in Thailand

Hello Ray,

yes, steam the house. Unlike you and your set-up where you only have to steam the spore bags, we have to steam our growing medium BEFORE we put the spores onto it. The growing medium has already been put on the shelves and smoothed out. In other words, we have to steam a 96 cubic metre mushroom house to a minimum of 60 degrees C for a minimum of 4 hours -- and that's per house. We have 3 houses so this is why it takes from 5am to maybe 9pm to do this job. If it's cold, we sometimes can only get two houses done in the one day and the third on the next day.

[ray23]

Ok found the video simple enough.

Steaming the house must mean you have a different style then I have. That being said I have thoght about a different stule just a standard room with good ventilation. I was thinking on terms of keeping the building cooler.

Sounds Like you might have just saved me a lot heart ache.

I will stick to what I have and steam the spores.

[ray23]

Guys you are using a much different style of building then I have. How is your production.

I have 2,000 plants bad day is 1 kilo good day 6 kilo's.

It seem to be very much about the weather rain helps but, I don't beleive because of the rain. But, cooler temps.

At nine baht per packet if I make a profit it won't be much.

I liked the rocket stove. I'm wondering if you could use that in a enclosure of some type to steam the spores in mass?

I could add 2,000 more right now with the room I have

If you can produce them at 4 baht instead of paying 9, that would represent a savings of 10K baht.

Since this has to be done twice a year, that alone could cut cost by 40K That gets my attention.

Our custonmers are complaining about the supply of product we have. That being said I don't think anyone l esle is supplying right now either.

This is our first year so I beleive a lot more surprises befoer we are finished. I would rather risk 8.000, then 18,000 since we are new.

[finnomick1]

Ok found the video simple enough.

Steaming the house must mean you have a different style then I have. That being said I have thoght about a different stule just a standard room with good ventilation. I was thinking on terms of keeping the building cooler.

Sounds Like you might have just saved me a lot heart ache.

I will stick to what I have and steam the spores.

Ray, yes, we have completely different setups. Our mushroom houses are like huge tents. When we steam them, we must seal them up completely ( or the steam would get out and the temperature would never reach the magic 60 degrees C ). During the growing phase, the misses keeps a check on the temperature and the amount of moisture in the growing medium. For instance today, she's gone round with a back-pack sprayer twice but she never sprays after about 4pm. We do ventilate the houses, but very slightly because as I've mentioned, our mushrooms grow better with heat. Today was the first showing of mushrooms and we harvested about 4kg. Tomorrow should be very different and I'll update this post with how many kg we get. Incidentally 1kg of our mushrooms is only 13 or 14 mushrooms.

[ray23]

Thanks I appreciate that. I finally put my foot down yeterday and made them run the fans with water misters all afternoon. It was hot and no rain yesterday. We went from one kilo to three over night. So I lesten annd try waht the Thai's do. That being said mnaybe the best option will be a blend of approaches,

I'm going to pursue the rocket stove and try to figure out how to steam the spores in mass. I was thinking os some sort of tent building to get the max use out of the heat. How much smoke do you get out of the stive and is it a problem?

[ozzydom]

A simple steam generator I built years ago to steam sticks and make them pliable for making lobster traps consisted only of a coil of 5/8 inch annealed copper tubing and 1/2 of a metal 40 gallon (200l) drum.

A water hose on one end, the other end into the steaming area and the remaining coils in the 1/2 drum on a good charcoal fire and presto ,enough steam to drive "Puffing Billy".

[ray23]

Ok found the video simple enough.

Steaming the house must mean you have a different style then I have. That being said I have thoght about a different stule just a standard room with good ventilation. I was thinking on terms of keeping the building cooler.

Sounds Like you might have just saved me a lot heart ache.

I will stick to what I have and steam the spores.

Ray, yes, we have completely different setups. Our mushroom houses are like huge tents. When we steam them, we must seal them up completely ( or the steam would get out and the temperature would never reach the magic 60 degrees C ). During the growing phase, the misses keeps a check on the temperature and the amount of moisture in the growing medium. For instance today, she's gone round with a back-pack sprayer twice but she never sprays after about 4pm. We do ventilate the houses, but very slightly because as I've mentioned, our mushrooms grow better with heat. Today was the first showing of mushrooms and we harvested about 4kg. Tomorrow should be very different and I'll update this post with how many kg we get. Incidentally 1kg of our mushrooms is only 13 or 14 mushrooms.

Photo: These are the ones that grow in the heat right?

Will these grow in our type of house?

My wife for some reason thinks they are hard to grow, are they?

She says there is a market for them here in Udon.

[finnomick1]

Ok found the video simple enough.

Steaming the house must mean you have a different style then I have. That being said I have thoght about a different stule just a standard room with good ventilation. I was thinking on terms of keeping the building cooler.

Sounds Like you might have just saved me a lot heart ache.

I will stick to what I have and steam the spores.

Ray, yes, we have completely different setups. Our mushroom houses are like huge tents. When we steam them, we must seal them up completely ( or the steam would get out and the temperature would never reach the magic 60 degrees C ). During the growing phase, the misses keeps a check on the temperature and the amount of moisture in the growing medium. For instance today, she's gone round with a back-pack sprayer twice but she never sprays after about 4pm. We do ventilate the houses, but very slightly because as I've mentioned, our mushrooms grow better with heat. Today was the first showing of mushrooms and we harvested about 4kg. Tomorrow should be very different and I'll update this post with how many kg we get. Incidentally 1kg of our mushrooms is only 13 or 14 mushrooms.

Photo: These are the ones that grow in the heat right?

Will these grow in our type of house?

My wife for some reason thinks they are hard to grow, are they?

She says there is a market for them here in Udon.

Yes Ray, these mushrooms like it hot ! They will grow not grow easily in your type of house because you cannot seal your house when you have to do the steaming. They're not too hard to grow but take a lot more watching and work than yours do. You'll always find a market for this kind of mushroom -- and a good price too. I've seen the supermarket shelf price vary from 139 baht per kilo to 197 baht per kilo !

[finnomick1]

Ray, some pics to help you see what our setup is like... The long shot is taken from the farthest corner of our land. In the foreground is the sugarcane. In the middle ground are the fishponds. At the back the large building to the right is wherewe live. Next left is our prep and storage area. Next 3 roofs are the mushroom houses. Second and third pics show the growing shelves. Four shelves high, each shelf is about 6 metres long and there are two sets of these shelves per house. Fourth pic is off the shelves packed with the growing medium and spores with mushrooms starting to grow. Because we have to water the spores and growing medium heavily when we first put them on the growing medium, the spores get everywhere and we often have as many mushrooms growing under the shelves as on them. Just imagine what it's like trying to pick the mushrooms from underneath the bottom shelf. Luckily these Thai lasses and very flexible !

[ray23]

Man that is a nice sit up. Thanks for the pic's.

Well we hit 6 kilos today. Had trwo good reainstorms u yesterday so the fans were not used. Twp changes Thai;s added lime to the dirt floor to kill in bacteria. The bags were reopened at the end again, to make it easier to grow out.

Today the fans and misters are going as it is hot. I also hand sprayed with the mister this morning and may repeat it this afternoon. The misters on the fan only provide cool air.

Showed our Thai guy the rocket heater. He is beginning to work on it now. No real hurry still don't know where to buy anything yet.

[ray23]

Mick, are those straw mushrroms?

If I can get me wife to understand if we are the only ones providing muchroom's in the heat, we wouid a have winner business here. As I would happily sit up to grow a second variety.

Our production yesterday 1/2 kilo today 1 kilo. I think I'm pretty much stuck till the rainy season really startes. You know carrying that sprayer on my bback wa killing me. So I took the entire end of it off attached to a garden hose. Now I can spray three times a day, with no strian. I'll try to get photo maybe io it would be easier. Since we pump from our fish pond it gets clogges up, but easy to clear it.

We have a had a few of our packets turn black. Thai's say they are no good when that happens is that accurate?

If that is the case would they make good compost now?

[ray23]

You get the same spraying done without the back pack, the nozzle portion fits perfectly in a 7/8's garden hose

[finnomick1]

Mick, are those straw mushrroms?

If I can get me wife to understand if we are the only ones providing muchroom's in the heat, we wouid a have winner business here. As I would happily sit up to grow a second variety.

Our production yesterday 1/2 kilo today 1 kilo. I think I'm pretty much stuck till the rainy season really startes. You know carrying that sprayer on my bback wa killing me. So I took the entire end of it off attached to a garden hose. Now I can spray three times a day, with no strian. I'll try to get photo maybe io it would be easier. Since we pump from our fish pond it gets clogges up, but easy to clear it.

We have a had a few of our packets turn black. Thai's say they are no good when that happens is that accurate?

If that is the case would they make good compost now?

Now then Ray,

yes, we only grow straw mushrooms. They're growing but not as fast as we would want this time. Today is day 6 in this cycle and we harvested 18.5kg which equates to just over 1000 baht. Today's price is 58 baht per kilo.

Not sure what to advise you about the bag going black because we open our bags and spread it all out. I've heard that with your type of mushrooms, once the bag stops producing you can re-cycle the contents and mix it with your next lot of spores. Once our mushrooms stop growing, we sell our redundant growing medium because it's ace fertiliser. Sometimes we use it ourselves on the sugarcane, sometimes we sell. This time round, we have 3 people all wanting it !