Most Women In Isaan Drink: Poll

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

I am going to start drinking more because I keep reading useless, nonsensical, non news items like this...Why is this supposed to be news...?

[ginjag]

TFD Because it is fact--and if you start drinking MORE you could be a topic.

What do you want to talk about ??? Drink, condo's, Yingluck, Tablets, There are many more topics to choose, dont use this one for an excuse to have more alcohol. Ha Ha.

[kerryk]

So far in several years here,

I have never met a woman from Issan that doesn't drink.

Some just don't regularly, some rarely because they are with a teetotal mate,

most drink when they feel like it, and drunk or sober state their feelings quite forcefully.

400 respondents to this poll... hardly viable results.

How smart are you Animatic? I bet not smart enough to do the math.

I could, I won't, I don't care.

I do do equations for some work I do, but not for this stuff.

No reason to.

Simply put:

The sample is too small for the size of the population to be viable, end of story.

What, did you go to school in Thailand? For a confidence level of 95% with a female population of 21 million you need a survey of 400 people. I gave you everything needed. Oh well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[visionchaser45]

"The foundation's director said the drinking habit among women in the region stems from their family practice that bars them from having an independent role in the society or expressing their viewpoints."

The foundation's director is making a pretty big inferential leap here. American women are very independent and have no problem expressing their viewpoints. A great number of American women also drink alcohol. I see no causal connection between independence and freedom to express viewpoints and alcohol consumption.

My other point is...so, what? I like to have a few beers and so does my Isaan wife. Whose business is it besides our own? Why don't they survey Bangkok women and women in Surat Thani. Why focus the study solely on Isaan women? This "study" appears to me to be more of a manifestation of Thai bigotry aimed at Isaan people.

[Scott]

I really don't like surveys like this, in part because it feels like they are singling out Isan. How does the drinking compare with other regions? The North? The Central? Is there a difference between rural and urban areas?

Someone already questioned the frequency and the amount drank by the women. I wonder about the age of women who drink. Is drinking more prevalent in younger women or older? Is there a difference between married and single women?

And what is the environment where they drink? With their husbands? With others? Alone?

[kimamey]

Of course to be of any real use you need to define "drinking". An occasional drink is one thing heavy drinking is another. Also what are they drinking. I've seen a lot of home produced whiskey. In my area of Mahasarakham and in the north in Phayao. No knowing what this does to you.

[Thai at Heart]

I really don't like surveys like this, in part because it feels like they are singling out Isan. How does the drinking compare with other regions? The North? The Central? Is there a difference between rural and urban areas?

Someone already questioned the frequency and the amount drank by the women. I wonder about the age of women who drink. Is drinking more prevalent in younger women or older? Is there a difference between married and single women?

And what is the environment where they drink? With their husbands? With others? Alone?

Well go ask 400 women. Apparently that represents an entire cultural block of 10mn, village, farming, city dwelling, lo, middle and hiso.

[brit1984]

So far in several years here,

I have never met a woman from Issan that doesn't drink.

Some just don't regularly, some rarely because they are with a teetotal mate,

most drink when they feel like it, and drunk or sober state their feelings quite forcefully.

400 respondents to this poll... hardly viable results.

How smart are you Animatic? I bet not smart enough to do the math.

I could, I won't, I don't care.

I do do equations for some work I do, but not for this stuff.

No reason to.

Simply put:

The sample is too small for the size of the population to be viable, end of story.

What, did you go to school in Thailand? For a confidence level of 95% with a female population of 21 million you need a survey of 400 people. I gave you everything needed. Oh well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Actually that equation also requires confidence interval as an input; you only stated confidence level.

More importantly, it assumes the sample is chosen completely at random (like a lottery where each member of the population has an equal chance of being selected); it is clear such conditions do not apply here

However, I must say (and I don't mean to be rude) that I am impressed you can remember your high-school stats class

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[arthurwait]

People ?

and they drink alcohol ?

[brit1984]

I always assumed Thailand was a sober country due to the popularity of Buddhism

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[hellodolly]

i think" the nation" is a national disgrace ,when this type of garbage can get into print its time to sack the editor and the reporters ... what a joke

Does Thai Visa have to pay for these articles?

[gand]

W. C. Fields

I never drink water. I'm afraid it will become habit-forming.

I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it.

Now don't say you can't swear off drinking; it's easy. I've done it a thousand times.

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her for it.

Frank Sinatra

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.

[mca]

The posters that say that Issan women do not drink much, either do not get about much, do not live in a village, or fly by in their cars, or my misses doesn't drink. Because living in rural Thailand most women drink beer-a quarter will drink lao khao. WINES who on earth can relate wines to Issan women, They are nearly all non winers. In rural karaoke bars, young and older women also drink Sang Som, Blend 285, Pipers, Hong Tong. THIS IS GENERAL-normal the thread is correct, but there are a few sheltered exceptions.

Although a lot do not everybody in Isaan lives in shitkicker central. Not everyone lives in a village wandering from house to house of day playing hi-lo and knocking back noi ting in an alcoholic haze.

Maybe the ones who've got f-all to do all day can squat outside their neighbours house and share a Leo or 3. But i was once associated with an Isaan business with close to 500 staff and never once had a termination of a woman through booze. The blokes yes. They might as well have installed a revolving door.

To bastardize your phrase if you don't get about much and live in a village somewhere in the boonies you might be under the impression that the women drink as if they had hollow legs. I went to a wedding in the Roi Et sticks and the bride's sister was unconscious by 8 am on the lao kao as were most of her buddies. Compare that with rush hour in a major Isaan city. Do you think all those bank girls etc going to work have knocked back a gak or 2 to allow themselves to function?

I would imagine that not everybody from Alabama to be a redneck racist cracker. That would be obtuse. Same as Isaan is not one giant booze as a square meal, maybe get a days work putting up a fence for 100 baht a day, my daughter's employed as an ceiling inspector in Pattaya, Thaksin luvin' baanok village.

[mca]

The posters that say that Issan women do not drink much, either do not get about much, do not live in a village, or fly by in their cars, or my misses doesn't drink. Because living in rural Thailand most women drink beer-a quarter will drink lao khao. WINES who on earth can relate wines to Issan women, They are nearly all non winers. In rural karaoke bars, young and older women also drink Sang Som, Blend 285, Pipers, Hong Tong. THIS IS GENERAL-normal the thread is correct, but there are a few sheltered exceptions.

Although a lot do not everybody in Isaan lives in shitkicker central. Not everyone lives in a village wandering from house to house of day playing hi-lo and knocking back noi ting in an alcoholic haze.

Maybe the ones who've got f-all to do all day can squat outside their neighbours house and share a Leo or 3. But i was once associated with an Isaan business with close to 500 staff and never once had a termination of a woman through booze. The blokes yes. They might as well have installed a revolving door.

To bastardize your phrase if you don't get about much and live in a village somewhere in the boonies you might be under the impression that the women drink as if they had hollow legs. I went to a wedding in the Roi Et sticks and the bride's sister was unconscious by 8 am on the lao kao as were most of her buddies. Compare that with rush hour in a major Isaan city. Do you think the multitude of bank girls etc going to work have knocked back a gak or 2 to allow themselves to function?

I would imagine that not everybody from Alabama to be a redneck racist cracker. That would be obtuse. Same as Isaan is not one giant booze as a square meal, maybe get a days work putting up a fence for 100 baht a day, my daughter's employed as an ceiling inspector in Pattaya, I left school at 12, I've got nothing because I blew it on the lottery and cards stereotype village.

Edited May 10, 2012 by mca

[visionchaser45]

Basically in my experience of Isaan I'd extremely roughly break it down into

70% teetotal or a very limited social drinker like my wife who'll occasionally have a glass of wine when we're out for a meal

25% social drinker like a bunch of girls knocking back some whisky or spy coolers down the club/pub

5% lao kao for breakfast etc

But why stop at Isaan? Apart from the Islamic areas ( a number of whom aren't adverse to a bit of a booze anyhow ) I would imagine the statistics for women who drink would roughly be the same countrywide.

Exactly! This "study" does nothing to show that Isaan women are somehow unique in their drinking habits. The assumption is that they represent a distinct population on the variable being investigated (alcohol consumption), but there is no evidence presented to demonstrate that uniqueness (i.e., statistical test between multiple theoretical populations). The study is nothing more than junk science. Nothing to see here...move along...move along 555

[kerryk]

Actually that equation also requires confidence interval as an input; you only stated confidence level.

More importantly, it assumes the sample is chosen completely at random (like a lottery where each member of the population has an equal chance of being selected); it is clear such conditions do not apply here

However, I must say (and I don't mean to be rude) that I am impressed you can remember your high-school stats class

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Actually I was only commenting on sample size. The other poster Animatic said that a sample size of 400 was not enough. This of course demonstrated his ignorance of statistics and probability. 95% is the usual norm of reliability and with the population of Issan that comes out to 400 in the sample other things being equal.

And I never took statistics in high school. On a college level three times but never in high school.

[maidu]

My other point is...so, what? I like to have a few beers and so does my Isaan wife. Whose business is it besides our own?

I'm sure your and your wife's casual drinking is no big deal. However, when looked at in the perspective of Chalerm's War on Drugs, it takes another significance. Chalerm says drug users and drug dealers should be killed. Alcohol is a drug. Not only is it a drug, it is Thailand's most dangerous drug. Fortunately for you, your wife and Chalerm, alcoholic drinks are your favorite drug, so it's outside the radar for Chalerm's death to druggies campaign.

[sirchai]

Guess I'm blind that I never see my mother in law, Jai and others drinking. They sometimes make some Satho, which isn't allowed because poor Thai farmers don't pay tax then.

What a weird research that is. A non-governmental research made by nobody.......

Edited May 11, 2012 by sirchai

[Semper]

i think" the nation" is a national disgrace ,when this type of garbage can get into print its time to sack the editor and the reporters ... what a joke

Does Thai Visa have to pay for these articles?

Maybe they are getting paid ?

[animatic]

Actually that equation also requires confidence interval as an input; you only stated confidence level.

More importantly, it assumes the sample is chosen completely at random (like a lottery where each member of the population has an equal chance of being selected); it is clear such conditions do not apply here

However, I must say (and I don't mean to be rude) that I am impressed you can remember your high-school stats class

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Actually I was only commenting on sample size. The other poster Animatic said that a sample size of 400 was not enough. This of course demonstrated his ignorance of statistics and probability. 95% is the usual norm of reliability and with the population of Issan that comes out to 400 in the sample other things being equal.

And I never took statistics in high school. On a college level three times but never in high school.

Regardless of your possible probability, the sample size leaves too much margin of error.

Other things are NOT equal, including the necessary randomness.

There are far too many other factors not accounted for for this sample to remain valid, certainly in this culture. Acknowledging this is not ignorance, regardless of your views.

As to the number 400. I have met well over 400 women from a cross section of Issan towns, cities and villages, and they all drink, but 1 who does, but only when her teetotal husband is out of country.

But don't imagine this is a statistically accurate observation for all of Issan.

And I do not spend my time meeting said Issan ladies in bars, so this doesn't skew the observation.

Anecdotally it does throw the survey above into dispute.

If statistics were not massagable like butter here, then there would be less totally B.S. pollings used to manipulate all and sundry here for political benefit. Equations that do not take into account sociological and politicizing factors and the like, are just idealized numbers, not confidence in reality.

Edited May 11, 2012 by animatic

[kerryk]

Actually that equation also requires confidence interval as an input; you only stated confidence level.

More importantly, it assumes the sample is chosen completely at random (like a lottery where each member of the population has an equal chance of being selected); it is clear such conditions do not apply here

However, I must say (and I don't mean to be rude) that I am impressed you can remember your high-school stats class

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Actually I was only commenting on sample size. The other poster Animatic said that a sample size of 400 was not enough. This of course demonstrated his ignorance of statistics and probability. 95% is the usual norm of reliability and with the population of Issan that comes out to 400 in the sample other things being equal.

And I never took statistics in high school. On a college level three times but never in high school.

Regardless of your possible probability, the sample size leaves too much margin of error.

Other things are NOT equal, including the necessary randomness.

There are far too many other factors not accounted for for this sample to remain valid, certainly in this culture. Acknowledging this is not ignorance, regardless of your views.

As to the number 400. I have met well over 400 women from a cross section of Issan towns, cities and villages, and they all drink, but 1 who does, but only when her teetotal husband is out of country.

But don't imagine this is a statistically accurate observation for all of Issan.

And I do not spend my time meeting said Issan ladies in bars, so this doesn't skew the observation.

Anecdotally it does throw the survey above into dispute.

Anecdotally I would agree with you.

[Baerboxer]

They should've broken down the stats by ages in 10y increments. From what I've seen drinking is mostly the younger women in karaoke "cafes", older ladies rarely drinking any.

kerryk, was that formula related to a Gaussian distribution ? I remember seeing that in a former life. Not that I'm a big believer in any social stats, as they tend to vary by locality and as such have little use for one individual residing within a large research area (Isaan is a big place), not counting usage as a hammer on internet forums, for NGO's and government, sure they need the stuff to show they're actually doing something.

Good point Doc. A statistics professor once told me that you should use statistics like a drunk uses a lampost - for support not illumination. Seems to fit here.

[ginjag]

Dr.Tuner-out of reality. Do you live in RURAL Thailand--I think NO or you wouldn't have said older people rarely drink. Near ALL drink. Before coming out with that please get amongst the country people, and city. 31 years here and I have lived near all areas town and country, the ladies are the same all areas. Near every house on occasions will have the white whisky and water at the ready. sat on a mat in a circle taking it in turns to swig. Normally head of family is the one who serves. if you had a top ten on what they do with their lives, this does vary according to age---EAT-mobile-drink-music-motor bike -sleep gamble-argue (re enacting -TV soap )

[Ferangled]

I thought this was a poll.

I was mindlessly looking for a box to tick even though I have no interest in the subject.

Which adds fuel to the fire that these sorts of figures are just total nonsense! How can anyone make any accurate assumptions about such a large group of people based on a poll of 400???!!!

Not to mention that there's no evidence to suggest that the 400 surveyed were A. truthful or B. indicative of the rest of Isaan...

For example if you surveyed a group of women in the beer garden of a pub, I'm sure a fair few would be drinkers compared to a group of 400 surveyed outside a wat...

[DrTuner]

Dr.Tuner-out of reality. Do you live in RURAL Thailand--I think NO or you wouldn't have said older people rarely drink. Near ALL drink. Before coming out with that please get amongst the country people, and city. 31 years here and I have lived near all areas town and country, the ladies are the same all areas. Near every house on occasions will have the white whisky and water at the ready. sat on a mat in a circle taking it in turns to swig. Normally head of family is the one who serves. if you had a top ten on what they do with their lives, this does vary according to age---EAT-mobile-drink-music-motor bike -sleep gamble-argue (re enacting -TV soap )

No, I don't live in the sticks but do visit a few times a year, mainly in the area around Khon Kaen where my wife's family hails from. Perhaps not banook enough then, but that's how it is, older women don't drink that much there. Men have their usual evening lau khao from tin cups, sure. One also has to remember that Isaan holds a few cities within, the reality there will be different from rural villages.

That's what I meant with my comment on stats and locality, for an individual the circles where one spends his time are far more important than overall stats. I'm sure one can find quite a few villages in Isaan where no one drinks, or ones where everybody is drunk out of their minds 24/7 and it would average out as these stats say.

Does anyone know what the NGO mentioned in the OP actually does ?

[MikeOxtinks]

"A survey by the Kwan Chumchon Foundation showed 59.3 percent of 400 female respondents from 25 to 60 years of age in five provinces in the Northeast drink alcohol, 14.6 percent have already quitted and 26.1 percent have never touched alcohol."

59.3% of 400 is 237.2 How can 237.2 women drink alcohol? Who makes these ridiculous figures up?

Maybe one of them was 20% sure of becoming a man, or maybe 80% of one of them was thinking of becoming a ladyboy?

[FOODLOVER]

I look better when their drunk.

[maidu]

monkeys chew on millipedes to get stoned from their yellow juice

birds eat over-ripe berries to get drunk

People drink all sorts of fermented sugars to get drunk

Difference is , monkeys and birds don't then go and beat their mates to a pulp, or drive cars in to other cars.

[ginjag]

Dr.Tuner-out of reality. Do you live in RURAL Thailand--I think NO or you wouldn't have said older people rarely drink. Near ALL drink. Before coming out with that please get amongst the country people, and city. 31 years here and I have lived near all areas town and country, the ladies are the same all areas. Near every house on occasions will have the white whisky and water at the ready. sat on a mat in a circle taking it in turns to swig. Normally head of family is the one who serves. if you had a top ten on what they do with their lives, this does vary according to age---EAT-mobile-drink-music-motor bike -sleep gamble-argue (re enacting -TV soap )

No, I don't live in the sticks but do visit a few times a year, mainly in the area around Khon Kaen where my wife's family hails from. Perhaps not banook enough then, but that's how it is, older women don't drink that much there. Men have their usual evening lau khao from tin cups, sure. One also has to remember that Isaan holds a few cities within, the reality there will be different from rural villages.

That's what I meant with my comment on stats and locality, for an individual the circles where one spends his time are far more important than overall stats. I'm sure one can find quite a few villages in Isaan where no one drinks, or ones where everybody is drunk out of their minds 24/7 and it would average out as these stats say.

Does anyone know what the NGO mentioned in the OP actually does ?

Your experience in that particular area, But the whole picture is very different, I did live in Korat-Udon- Near Chiang Rai Chonburi, apart from rural villages. I can assure you EVERY village has it's drinkers, It is a big part of their social life, and a percent of them are drunks.A thread some time ago spoke about 70% of Thai are alcoholics. and I can see this every day. Together with 80% of deaths =motorcycles, mostly through drink.May I say rural and vilages run pretty much the same alcohol is there for sale...and they love it. I am not trying to say you were wrong-NO only it was in that area you frequented little was consumed.

[Skywalker69]

I look better when their drunk.

Me too.