Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard.

[buhi]

Chalermchai Boonyaleepun of Srinakharinwirot University is concerned that children might know more than their teachers.

"Teachers were found to have some difficulties handling classes where students were using tablets.In some cases, students taught teachers how to use certain applications, which might have the negative psychological impact on the students losing respect for their teachers, Mr Chalermchai said".

As a teacher I have learnt from my students many things .In Western Education it is normal for the teacher to ask the children what they know and to share our collective knowledge. There is always a pupil who knows something I do not and for the young learner what a motivation that is, how proud s/he can be in their knowledge.

Children are encouraged to solve problems by using their own ideas and very often make surprising discoveries. In Math for instance there are many ways to solve a problem, my way(s) may not be the best way for every child. The discussion of the methods employed is the true learning experience.

True if a pupil has no starting point, then my role as a teacher is to provide one; for those who need it. Teaching something they already know is a boring waste of time.

As for ICT, the children I teach are way ahead of me; not surprisingly since they have been taught since Kindergarten how to use a computer.

I use a Smart Board in class and admit to being a learner with it, for ever asking how to get this function to work. No loss of face, an acknowledgement of their superior skill.

I cannot play soccer like a young child can,I can hone their skills though.

Until this attitude of loss of face and the teacher having to know everything changes, then Thai education will remain in the dark ages of rote learning.

Some time ago I was working with Thai teachers in a Thai school, trying to wean them away from rote learning to a child centred approach. I thought I was making some progress and the head of the English Language department was very enthusiastic, so I thought. She decided to devise a quiz for the class to allow them to demonstrate their knowledge.

Question:

What animal lives in the desert?

Pupil's answer; a snake.

Wrong she replied, correct I countered.

Oh dear loss of face!

No the answer is camel, she quickly countered back.

I could see where this was leading, she was about to face the "negative psychological impact on the students losing respect for their teachers, as Mr Chalermchai puts it".

I am all for tablets/laptops in the classroom, use them in class every day, but Thailand's educational problems will not be miraculously solved by one lap top per child.The teachers will be terrified, just imagine a Thai teacher telling the class an erroneous fact and the lap top whizz kid doing a quick search and informing the teacher she is incorrect!

Those laptops will quickly be placed away from inquisitive minds and locked away to gather chalk dust in the cupboard.

[astral]

As a teacher you have to be prepared for the unexpected.

It is called "thinking outside the box"

Yes snakes do live in the desert, so do Oryx and many other surprising creatures

It will be a great shame if the computer age passes Thailand schools by, because the teachers are not ready

My son's school had two computers, at least 18 years ago, but they sat in the principal's office and no one used them.

[473geo]

Give the children the tools, if the teachers remain inadequate the children will learn from their peers, the older children who will guide them in IT solutions the teacher is unable to provide. The teachers will have to upgrade their knowledge or indeed lose face big time........their choice

[Geekfreaklover]

I once observed a foreign teacher teaching a mattayom class at an elite highschool in Bangkok. The teacher spelled a word incorrectly on the whiteboard. One student opened her English dictionary and 'corrected' the word. A line of tipex. She wrote the word in ink so that it ws the same as the teachers mistake.

Scary.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I see my role as a teacher primarily as giving them the tools they need to learn, facilitator, coach and mentor.

It usually takes several tens of hours before even some of the Thai students figure out how to take responsibility for their own learning, and some never do.

I would also never trust a doctor that couldn't feel free to answer "I don't know, I'll have to look that up" or even "looks like I was wrong".

[Slip]

I see my role as a teacher primarily as giving them the tools they need to learn, facilitator, coach and mentor.

It usually takes several tens of hours before even some of the Thai students figure out how to take responsibility for their own learning, and some never do.

I would also never trust a doctor that couldn't feel free to answer "I don't know, I'll have to look that up" or even "looks like I was wrong".

(Sorry to bold your post), but I'm not sure Thailand is ready for someone of your calibre/ ability.

Speaking as a foreign teacher, it doesn't ever worry me to have to check a fact or spelling, or even have them pointed out by students on the odd occasion: (As I say to them- everyone makes mistakes and they help us to learn. Luckily not being teachers they don't know the difference between a mistake and an error) I think it is definitely detrimental to Thai education that this attitude isn't more common amongst my Thai colleagues.

[buhi]

I see my role as a teacher primarily as giving them the tools they need to learn, facilitator, coach and mentor.

It usually takes several tens of hours before even some of the Thai students figure out how to take responsibility for their own learning, and some never do.

I would also never trust a doctor that couldn't feel free to answer "I don't know, I'll have to look that up" or even "looks like I was wrong".

My experience with doctors in Thailand has been more than satisfactory; Many have trained in the West or by those that were been trained in the west. All doctors that I have encountered have been ready to say that they would like the opinion of a specialist and do not have a "face" problem.

Thai teachers have not been trained by anyone other than those who have very fixed and rigid ideas about knowledge. I use the word knowledge and not learning. The capabilities of computers will wholly undermine Thai teachers because knowledge is easy to access using one. How to learn using the knowledge is how children should be developing their abilities.

Children need at an early age to question "knowledge" to find ways to verify the validity of their research ; they can do this. It is then that teaching becomes fun for all. It is usual practise in good schools in England ,to break a class into groups to research different areas of a part of a topic, then to share the findings to build the bigger picture.

I am not discussing English as a second language here, but class teaching in all subjects. Teaching in state Thai schools is a nightmare, it is like a journey back to Victorian times.

There are some great schools in Thailand, but they are for the pivileged few who can afford the extremely expensive international schools. Thus the future gap between the rich and poor is being cemented now.

I feel that is the way the elite want to keep things and why so little has changed in mainstrean Thai schools during the fifteen years I have been teaching here.

Edited May 12, 2012 by buhi

[zzaa09]

Give the children the tools, if the teachers remain inadequate the children will learn from their peers, the older children who will guide them in IT solutions the teacher is unable to provide. The teachers will have to upgrade their knowledge or indeed lose face big time........their choice

Indeed. As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

Best that they come up to speed, before they find themselves in the minority.

Edited May 12, 2012 by zzaa09

[thaibeachlovers]

Hmmmmm Misleading title. Thought it was about nasty brats that should be gagged.

However <Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard>

Absolutely.

[zzaa09]

Hmmmmm Misleading title. Thought it was about nasty brats that should be gagged.

However <Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard>

Absolutely.

Actually, this should be applied to adults.

The real brats.

[cardholder]

Hmmmmm Misleading title. Thought it was about nasty brats that should be gagged.

However <Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard>

Absolutely.

Actually, this should be applied to adults.

The real brats.

I think you are mixing with wrong crowd of adults.

I find most of my acquaintances to be reasonably house-trained (most Thais excepted).

[cardholder]

Give the children the tools, if the teachers remain inadequate the children will learn from their peers, the older children who will guide them in IT solutions the teacher is unable to provide. The teachers will have to upgrade their knowledge or indeed lose face big time........their choice

Indeed. As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

Best that they come up to speed, before they find themselves in the minority.

The concern is that the current generations cannot step up to the plate either.

A friend holds the view that Darwin by-passed Thailand and, with him, evolution went straight from Burma to Cambodia.

[buhi]

Give the children the tools, if the teachers remain inadequate the children will learn from their peers, the older children who will guide them in IT solutions the teacher is unable to provide. The teachers will have to upgrade their knowledge or indeed lose face big time........their choice

Indeed. As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

Best that they come up to speed, before they find themselves in the minority.

As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

I am not sure what you mean.

No it is the reverse, as I thought I had made clear.

The elite pay hundreds of thousands of Baht to have their children educated in critical thought and questioning., it is the state schools who are not progressing. Questioning is disrespectful!

How can they if they are not funded to do so. I mean not funded to train their teachers and implement change. They cannot, they have to follow the Thai curriculum.

If you believe that change will come and education will improve for the average and poor, then visit your nearest state school.

Fifty plus children in a filthy class with perhaps a working fan or two, absolutely no creativity; here is the answer, now copy it into your book!

Believe me I know.

Now I have returned to teaching at an international school. Head banging was never my forte!

At best I can teach the elite to consider how privileged they are.

Edited May 12, 2012 by buhi

[kerryk]

Give the children the tools, if the teachers remain inadequate the children will learn from their peers, the older children who will guide them in IT solutions the teacher is unable to provide. The teachers will have to upgrade their knowledge or indeed lose face big time........their choice

Indeed. As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

Best that they come up to speed, before they find themselves in the minority.

As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

I am not sure what you mean.

No it is the reverse, as I thought I had made clear.

The elite pay hundreds of thousands of Baht to have their children educated in critical thought and questioning., it is the state schools who are not progressing. Questioning is disrespectful!

How can they if they are not funded to do so. I mean not funded to train their teachers and implement change. They cannot, they have to follow the Thai curriculum.

If you believe that change will come and education will improve for the average and poor, then visit your nearest state school.

Fifty plus children in a filthy class with perhaps a working fan or two, absolutely no creativity; here is the answer, now copy it into your book!

Believe me I know.

Now I have returned to teaching at an international school. Head banging was never my forte!

At best I can teach the elite to consider how privileged they are.

Kind of like putting a subject on teaching in the general forum instead of the Teaching forum where you could get opinions of experts.

[StreetCowboy]

Hmmmmm Misleading title. Thought it was about nasty brats that should be gagged.

However <Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard>

Absolutely.

Actually, this should be applied to adults.

The real brats.

You didn't set a very good example there

SC

[StreetCowboy]

Give the children the tools, if the teachers remain inadequate the children will learn from their peers, the older children who will guide them in IT solutions the teacher is unable to provide. The teachers will have to upgrade their knowledge or indeed lose face big time........their choice

Indeed. As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

Best that they come up to speed, before they find themselves in the minority.

As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

I am not sure what you mean.

No it is the reverse, as I thought I had made clear.

The elite pay hundreds of thousands of Baht to have their children educated in critical thought and questioning., it is the state schools who are not progressing. Questioning is disrespectful!

How can they if they are not funded to do so. I mean not funded to train their teachers and implement change. They cannot, they have to follow the Thai curriculum.

If you believe that change will come and education will improve for the average and poor, then visit your nearest state school.

Fifty plus children in a filthy class with perhaps a working fan or two, absolutely no creativity; here is the answer, now copy it into your book!

Believe me I know.

Now I have returned to teaching at an international school. Head banging was never my forte!

At best I can teach the elite to consider how privileged they are.

Kind of like putting a subject on teaching in the general forum instead of the Teaching forum where you could get opinions of experts.

We're all experts because we went to school once

[StreetCowboy]

Give the children the tools, if the teachers remain inadequate the children will learn from their peers, the older children who will guide them in IT solutions the teacher is unable to provide. The teachers will have to upgrade their knowledge or indeed lose face big time........their choice

Indeed. As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

Best that they come up to speed, before they find themselves in the minority.

As the curriculum of critical thought, questioning, and challenging are seemingly passing the old establishment by the wayside.

I am not sure what you mean.

No it is the reverse, as I thought I had made clear.

The elite pay hundreds of thousands of Baht to have their children educated in critical thought and questioning., it is the state schools who are not progressing. Questioning is disrespectful!

How can they if they are not funded to do so. I mean not funded to train their teachers and implement change. They cannot, they have to follow the Thai curriculum.

If you believe that change will come and education will improve for the average and poor, then visit your nearest state school.

Fifty plus children in a filthy class with perhaps a working fan or two, absolutely no creativity; here is the answer, now copy it into your book!

Believe me I know.

Now I have returned to teaching at an international school. Head banging was never my forte!

At best I can teach the elite to consider how privileged they are.

Otr at least understand how they are held back by the unsatisfactory education of their serfs

SC

[theblether]

Hmmmmm Misleading title. Thought it was about nasty brats that should be gagged.

However <Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard>

Absolutely.

I solved this irritating problem by starting a chimney sweeping service. Not only were my children not heard, they were hardly seen.

It was annoying when my teenage son got stuck in a chimney in Glasgow, the customer refused to pay so I just left him there, went home and told the wife that we would need to make a new son.

The little bandit managed to free himself and make his way home, so I sold him to a gypsy. I'm not having kids hanging around my house looking for love and affection, if they are not making a profit for me what's the point of having them?

[smokie36]

Hmmmmm Misleading title. Thought it was about nasty brats that should be gagged.

However <Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard>

Absolutely.

I solved this irritating problem by starting a chimney sweeping service. Not only were my children not heard, they were hardly seen.

It was annoying when my teenage son got stuck in a chimney in Glasgow, the customer refused to pay so I just left him there, went home and told the wife that we would need to make a new son.

The little bandit managed to free himself and make his way home, so I sold him to a gypsy. I'm not having kids hanging around my house looking for love and affection, if they are not making a profit for me what's the point of having them?

I remember that. <sniff>

[Kilgore Trout]

Such a shame, I always use the situation as a learning opportunity or a "teachable moment" when a student displays knowledge or understanding not normally expected. I praise the student and show the class how creative thinking or questioning is a positive thing and no one knows everything, including the teacher. But if we work together and share our collective knowledge, it will benefit all of us. In addition to peaking the students interest, it actually gives them more respect for the teacher as they see the teacher is human and the student can express themselves freely with regard to learning.

Unfortunately, I have yet to see a Thai teacher who can do this or even understand the concept.

It is the difference between being a facilitator/guide and being a dictator in the classroom.

[thaibeachlovers]

Hmmmmm Misleading title. Thought it was about nasty brats that should be gagged.

However <Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard>

Absolutely.

I solved this irritating problem by starting a chimney sweeping service. Not only were my children not heard, they were hardly seen.

It was annoying when my teenage son got stuck in a chimney in Glasgow, the customer refused to pay so I just left him there, went home and told the wife that we would need to make a new son.

The little bandit managed to free himself and make his way home, so I sold him to a gypsy. I'm not having kids hanging around my house looking for love and affection, if they are not making a profit for me what's the point of having them?

Sounds like something out of Monty Python, is that correct?

[thaibeachlovers]

Such a shame, I always use the situation as a learning opportunity or a "teachable moment" when a student displays knowledge or understanding not normally expected. I praise the student and show the class how creative thinking or questioning is a positive thing and no one knows everything, including the teacher. But if we work together and share our collective knowledge, it will benefit all of us. In addition to peaking the students interest, it actually gives them more respect for the teacher as they see the teacher is human and the student can express themselves freely with regard to learning.

Unfortunately, I have yet to see a Thai teacher who can do this or even understand the concept.

It is the difference between being a facilitator/guide and being a dictator in the classroom.

When I was a lad, most of my teachers were "dictators" ( with a cane ). They taught me sweet FA- all my real education came after I left school.

The exceptions were regarded as soft and they couldn't keep control of the class, so they too, taught nothing.

However, it goes to show that rote learning isn't the end of the world. People do survive school and go on to better things.

[buhi]

Such a shame, I always use the situation as a learning opportunity or a "teachable moment" when a student displays knowledge or understanding not normally expected. I praise the student and show the class how creative thinking or questioning is a positive thing and no one knows everything, including the teacher. But if we work together and share our collective knowledge, it will benefit all of us. In addition to peaking the students interest, it actually gives them more respect for the teacher as they see the teacher is human and the student can express themselves freely with regard to learning.

Unfortunately, I have yet to see a Thai teacher who can do this or even understand the concept.

It is the difference between being a facilitator/guide and being a dictator in the classroom.

When I was a lad, most of my teachers were "dictators" ( with a cane ). They taught me sweet FA- all my real education came after I left school.

The exceptions were regarded as soft and they couldn't keep control of the class, so they too, taught nothing.

However, it goes to show that rote learning isn't the end of the world. People do survive school and go on to better things.

This is the Thai problem summed up by an oldie.

" I got through it, what's the problem?"

Too many oldies are teacher haters, their memories of school are of dictators and corporal punishment.The, "We don't need no education,'" brigade.

I was lucky to have had fond memories of the then progressive schools I attended.I can assure you that a teacher today has no excuse to be of that mould.

As I have already stated, the best of all available education is to be found in Thailand, check the fees of the best international schools though.

They are still caning them daily in Thai secondary schools and a stick is never far from a Thai primary school teacher in the state schools.

"Never did me any harm!" I hear the oldies proclaim.

Whackho, good old days of Jimmy Edwards! Check that out , I am not young.

Good prastise is well established and implemented in western state schools. There are exceptions, but what I know to take place daily in most Thai schools would see those teachers banned for life and prosecuted if they were teaching in England today.!

Edited May 15, 2012 by buhi

[travelmann]

Hmmmmm Misleading title. Thought it was about nasty brats that should be gagged.

However <Children Should Be Seen And Not Heard>

Absolutely.

I solved this irritating problem by starting a chimney sweeping service. Not only were my children not heard, they were hardly seen.

It was annoying when my teenage son got stuck in a chimney in Glasgow, the customer refused to pay so I just left him there, went home and told the wife that we would need to make a new son.

The little bandit managed to free himself and make his way home, so I sold him to a gypsy. I'm not having kids hanging around my house looking for love and affection, if they are not making a profit for me what's the point of having them?

Your'e nuts I would have farmed him/her for spare parts later in life and if not needed sold them on the open market, sheesh you missed a big moNEY earner there SUCKER

[thaibeachlovers]

Such a shame, I always use the situation as a learning opportunity or a "teachable moment" when a student displays knowledge or understanding not normally expected. I praise the student and show the class how creative thinking or questioning is a positive thing and no one knows everything, including the teacher. But if we work together and share our collective knowledge, it will benefit all of us. In addition to peaking the students interest, it actually gives them more respect for the teacher as they see the teacher is human and the student can express themselves freely with regard to learning.

Unfortunately, I have yet to see a Thai teacher who can do this or even understand the concept.

It is the difference between being a facilitator/guide and being a dictator in the classroom.

When I was a lad, most of my teachers were "dictators" ( with a cane ). They taught me sweet FA- all my real education came after I left school.

The exceptions were regarded as soft and they couldn't keep control of the class, so they too, taught nothing.

However, it goes to show that rote learning isn't the end of the world. People do survive school and go on to better things.

This is the Thai problem summed up by an oldie.

" I got through it, what's the problem?"

Too many oldies are teacher haters, their memories of school are of dictators and corporal punishment.The, "We don't need no education,'" brigade.

I was lucky to have had fond memories of the then progressive schools I attended.I can assure you that a teacher today has no excuse to be of that mould.

As I have already stated, the best of all available education is to be found in Thailand, check the fees of the best international schools though.

They are still caning them daily in Thai secondary schools and a stick is never far from a Thai primary school teacher in the state schools.

"Never did me any harm!" I hear the oldies proclaim.

Whackho, good old days of Jimmy Edwards! Check that out , I am not young.

Good prastise is well established and implemented in western state schools. There are exceptions, but what I know to take place daily in most Thai schools would see those teachers banned for life and prosecuted if they were teaching in England today.!

I never claimed that I was not "harmed" by my school days. I sat in class in fear of being caned for getting something wrong, which is indeed why I hated teachers, for the most part. One teacher actually hit me on the head with his hand, and I've never forgotten, or forgiven that.

However, far worse than the teachers were my fellow students, a sadistic gang of thugs, no less.

The point I was making, is that no matter how bad the school, or the teachers, etc, it does not mean that one has no future.

Life success or faliure is down to the individual, not those around him. Given a fair chance, any "normal" person can succeed.

[DavidSL]

I have limited experience of teaching here, and I've never taught above Primary level 3, so can't really comment too much on students sharing their knowledge as what experience I do have has been teaching basic level English for students to have fun with. However, one thing that has shocked me is the attitude of those in charge. I have experienced a Headteacher come into a school and after serving for a year ask every teacher to change the results of the tests throughout the whole school because they weren't good enough. Not re-test the students, or even impliment some sort of new programme, just change the results. Why? To make her look good. When several teachers asked to have a meeting with her to discuss this, she flat out refused, and told them to just do it. So yes, the losing face thing is taken several steps too far in schools, and unfortunately, it's always going to be the students who suffer. But what does that matter when an older person looks good to the parents?

It's not the only time I've experienced or heard such a tale. A colleague of mine marked a young students paper and the results were not great. So the student got a low grade. The mother of said student demanded to our boss that my colleague be fired for giving her daughter such a low grade, using the (probably now classic) threat, 'Don't you know who my husband is?'

There's a huge problem with education here. Deluded parents who want to buy their kids grades (and this seems to be common), and teachers who don't want to look bad to parents. I've several times been told not to give kids grades that are 'too low' and just average them out because of parents complaints. Changing grades seems to be part of the job.