Idiom: "snake Snake Fish Fish"

[toptuan]

When Thai people just know very little about something, they joke about it by the self-deprecating remark "snake snake fish fish" (ngu ngu, plaa plaa).

I say this when someone asks me if I speak Thai. Since my comprehension is about 5%, it's an appropriate response, and always gets a good laugh.

I'm intrigued: Does anyone know the cognitive connection between "little knowledge" and "snake snake / fish fish"?

[withnail]

I was under the impression that it was something to do with the fact that the consonant sounds in those two words would be difficult to pronounce if you couldn't speak Thai. Could be way off though.

[Abandon]

I thought that it is something to do with both creatures being slippery.

[Johpa]

I was under the impression that it was something to do with the fact that the consonant sounds in those two words would be difficult to pronounce if you couldn't speak Thai. Could be way off though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not sure of the origin, but the phrase has been around longer than the tourists. The phrase works well if you can correctly pronounce the /ng/ consonant ngaa nguu correctly. Although my Thai is not fluent (and dropping downward by the year as I no longer live in-country) I often use the phrase to break the ice and downplay that my Thai is usually better than their English.

[Boon Mee]

I've used it in situations where someone has told me that my Thai is very good when I know the opposite.

[steveromagnino]

I've used it in situations where someone has told me that my Thai is very good when I know the opposite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Refers to someone who cannot speak a language properly, like a kid who is just learning and points at a snake and says snake! then points at a fish and says fish!

And cannot say anything else.

Now commonplace for Thai people to translate this into english, thinking that this can encapsulate their proficiency for english, and that english speakers will understand. Of course, if a person can speak Thai, then it makes sense, otherwise it may seem confusing.

Exactly like listening to someone who tries to explain some english concept in Thai, but uses the intonation of english to ask a question, rather than the tones of the Thai language...equally confusing for the Thai listener, unless they speak english in which case they can understand what the speaker is trying to say.

That's my take on it.

It is a phrase long used, and often used by Thai people descibing their own foreign language skills to eachother, rather than specifically in addressing tourists.

[Johpa]

I've used it in situations where someone has told me that my Thai is very good when I know the opposite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Refers to someone who cannot speak a language properly, like a kid who is just learning and points at a snake and says snake! then points at a fish and says fish!

And cannot say anything else.

Now commonplace for Thai people to translate this into english, thinking that this can encapsulate their proficiency for english, and that english speakers will understand. Of course, if a person can speak Thai, then it makes sense, otherwise it may seem confusing.

Exactly like listening to someone who tries to explain some english concept in Thai, but uses the intonation of english to ask a question, rather than the tones of the Thai language...equally confusing for the Thai listener, unless they speak english in which case they can understand what the speaker is trying to say.

That's my take on it.

It is a phrase long used, and often used by Thai people descibing their own foreign language skills to eachother, rather than specifically in addressing tourists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The phrase is not restricted to language use and until recently there were far too few Thais able to speak English to warrant a phrase of any sorts. The phrase translates into English as "a little bit" and can be used in just about any scenario where that English phrase would be used. It works very well with language proficiency as it is a cute phrase long taught to learners of Thai language, and perhaps over time has become more specifically connected to language skills. If so then it is a fairly recent result of the phrase being favored by teachers of languages and favored by language learners as well as the dramatic increase of Farangs leaning Thai and Thais learning Western languages.

[jdinasia]

Talked to my best friend about this recently. He referred only to language skills when he responded.

Found a shirt with it written in Thai that actually fit me! wheeee!

The billboards (cannot remember for whom) in Thai that say hmuu hmuu are cute too! (pig pig) meaning very easy!

[Stephen Cleary]

I've used it in situations where someone has told me that my Thai is very good when I know the opposite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Refers to someone who cannot speak a language properly, like a kid who is just learning and points at a snake and says snake! then points at a fish and says fish!

And cannot say anything else.

Now commonplace for Thai people to translate this into english, thinking that this can encapsulate their proficiency for english, and that english speakers will understand. Of course, if a person can speak Thai, then it makes sense, otherwise it may seem confusing.

Exactly like listening to someone who tries to explain some english concept in Thai, but uses the intonation of english to ask a question, rather than the tones of the Thai language...equally confusing for the Thai listener, unless they speak english in which case they can understand what the speaker is trying to say.

That's my take on it.

It is a phrase long used, and often used by Thai people descibing their own foreign language skills to eachother, rather than specifically in addressing tourists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The phrase is not restricted to language use and until recently there were far too few Thais able to speak English to warrant a phrase of any sorts. The phrase translates into English as "a little bit" and can be used in just about any scenario where that English phrase would be used. It works very well with language proficiency as it is a cute phrase long taught to learners of Thai language, and perhaps over time has become more specifically connected to language skills. If so then it is a fairly recent result of the phrase being favored by teachers of languages and favored by language learners as well as the dramatic increase of Farangs leaning Thai and Thais learning Western languages.

Would just care to go a little further and translate 'ngoo ngoo plah plah' as the equivalent 'to speak pidgen'.

This phrase can be used with Thais or foreigners who have learnt their spoken foreign language skills 'on the street' without actually having any background studies or knowledge of grammar etc....

This term can also be coined to demonstrate illiteracy in a speaker even though his spoken skills can sound pretty impressive to an unknown outside listener.

A good example of someone who speaks 'ngoo ngoo plah plah' in Thailand is a bargirl or a street vendor etc..

[Kathe]

Snake snake , fish ..fish......ngoo ngoo ...plaa ..plaa.....

meaning for lack of language skill. Just can speak little bit and sometimes without knowing the meaning what he/she is talking about. They might built their own language style to make (sense) understand.

......Phud dai ngoo ngoo ...plaa...plaa......

[spear]

งูๆปลาๆ หมายถึงมั่วๆ ไม่รู้จริง เพราะคนบางคนก็แยกสัตว์สองประเภทนี้ไม่ค่อยออกน่ะค่ะ โดยเฉพาะปลาไหลกับงูน้ำ

[bannork]

Thanks for that excellent answer Spear, so the inability to differentiate between snakes and fish, especially eels and water snakes, is a sign of guesswork, uncertainty, lack of knowledge in that field, ie language. I like the theory about them both being slippery, hard to grasp too, it suggests a certain fumbling around, something we certainly do at first when learning a new language.