Bangkok: Huge Turnout Expected At Red-Shirt Rally Today

[tlansford]

Good for them

Get them off their farms and out of their red villages.

Also, the 500 - 1000 baht they are surely being paid

to attend will help them put food on the table tomorrow.

Not sure how the will pay to feed themselves the day

after though.

Memorial is good, just too bad they still do not realize

their leaders led them in a slaughter, IMO

You are claiming they are being paid. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I believe you still don't get it. There is a core demographic that supports the UDD, the same way there is a core group that supports Newin or Abhisit.

My dear, the consensus might be that you are indeed excellent however ... one cannot help thinking it might just be a tad possible you don't see the reality. Who would afford to come from, say, Surat, on their own money? There's a reason they are in Surat ...

Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

Reality is that the UDD has a minuscule following among TVF nationals.

We can also be going down the grammar-police route as well since undoubtedly some will claim that a free bus-ride to BKK is the equivalent of being paid to attend.

And nothing will stop posters from making the claim without a stitch of proof - so please carry on. It is just the standard MO

[Buchholz]

During the protests millions of baht were donated every day by individuals, families, companies, organisations. After almost each speaker/performer they read out the pledges and they were substantial. Pledges of hundreds of thousands of baht were common. There was plenty of money to provide food and pay expenses for those people attending who were obviously sacrificing their regular income.

But I have to read the constant frothing about how it was all funded by the evil fugitive, ruthlessly using the ignorant farmers as cannon fodder to satisfy his megalomania.

It's certainly not all funded by the evil fugitive, there's any number of wealthy elite Reds who made tons of money as a crony of his during his heyday and welcome him back with wallet emptying payments.

Just look at topic threads like 2/3 of the cabinet ministers are millionaires... Science Minister buffoon Plodprasop is worth nearly a billion himself.

It's the Red elite who are the big contributors.... they are the ones who, as you say "pledges of hundreds of thousands of baht"...

The so-called movement couldn't sustain itself for a week if it ran solely dependent upon rank and file Somchai's 100 baht contribution.

.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Buchholz

[OzMick]

We have been over this topic a hundred times. Get over it. The Thais have no clue what this symbol really means.

They still haven't learned about the meaning of the swastika symbol over all this time?

To them it just means power.

This is a more appropriate symbol for "power":

Isn't that the Reset button a.k.a Coup so beloved of some people on here.............

No. Reset is normally an incomplete circle with an arrow head. Pol Pot seemed to think that completely shutting everything down and starting again was a good idea, but he was a red moron.

[OzMick]

Good for them

Get them off their farms and out of their red villages.

Also, the 500 - 1000 baht they are surely being paid

to attend will help them put food on the table tomorrow.

Not sure how the will pay to feed themselves the day

after though.

Memorial is good, just too bad they still do not realize

their leaders led them in a slaughter, IMO

You are claiming they are being paid. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I believe you still don't get it. There is a core demographic that supports the UDD, the same way there is a core group that supports Newin or Abhisit.

My dear, the consensus might be that you are indeed excellent however ... one cannot help thinking it might just be a tad possible you don't see the reality. Who would afford to come from, say, Surat, on their own money? There's a reason they are in Surat ...

Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

Reality is that the UDD has a minuscule following among TVF nationals.

We can also be going down the grammar-police route as well since undoubtedly some will claim that a free bus-ride to BKK is the equivalent of being paid to attend.

And nothing will stop posters from making the claim without a stitch of proof - so please carry on. It is just the standard MO

There is no such thing as a free bus ride - somebody paid for it. The questions are whom and why? The answers may vary.

How we going with that strategy?

[tlansford]

The Reds are currently by far the most important political movement in Thailand and many are bitter about that reality.

They're also being by far the most violent political movement in Thailand when mixed with that increasing bitterness may soon bring about.... as Thida says... the use of force necessary to crack down on her Red protesters may occur again.

.

You appear to have missed the recent explosions down south........a rather narrow minded statement to suit your agenda.....unless of course you accept the southern violence carries no agenda to influence politicians

The UDD is not the most violent political movement in Thailand. Your point being a most obvious one, but others also ignore the fact that a political environment is made of a mix of many elements and those in Thailand have violent/militant as well as peaceful elements in each faction.

The UDD is, however, clearly the most hated political movement on TVF.

[tlansford]

-- deleted due to quote limits --

You are claiming they are being paid. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I believe you still don't get it. There is a core demographic that supports the UDD, the same way there is a core group that supports Newin or Abhisit.

My dear, the consensus might be that you are indeed excellent however ... one cannot help thinking it might just be a tad possible you don't see the reality. Who would afford to come from, say, Surat, on their own money? There's a reason they are in Surat ...

Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

Reality is that the UDD has a minuscule following among TVF nationals.

We can also be going down the grammar-police route as well since undoubtedly some will claim that a free bus-ride to BKK is the equivalent of being paid to attend.

And nothing will stop posters from making the claim without a stitch of proof - so please carry on. It is just the standard MO

There is no such thing as a free bus ride - somebody paid for it. The questions are whom and why? The answers may vary.

How we going with that strategy?

troll away ozmick - I'm not your brain. Take it out for a spin ... the exercise will do it some good.

[OzMick]

The Reds are currently by far the most important political movement in Thailand and many are bitter about that reality.

They're also being by far the most violent political movement in Thailand when mixed with that increasing bitterness may soon bring about.... as Thida says... the use of force necessary to crack down on her Red protesters may occur again.

.

You appear to have missed the recent explosions down south........a rather narrow minded statement to suit your agenda.....unless of course you accept the southern violence carries no agenda to influence politicians

The UDD is not the most violent political movement in Thailand. Your point being a most obvious one, but others also ignore the fact that a political environment is made of a mix of many elements and those in Thailand have violent/militant as well as peaceful elements in each faction.

The UDD is, however, clearly the most hated political movement on TVF.

Also

"Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

Reality is that the UDD has a minuscule following among TVF nationals."

Which group do you think would have the higher level of education on average?

Which group would have the more experience of democracy?

Which group would be better informed of current and historical events?

Which group has the freedom to criticise without physical or financial intimidation?

You seem to have the ability to remain calm while everybody else posts madly. Is it because you can't see what's happening from your ivory tower in the US?

[OzMick]

There is no such thing as a free bus ride - somebody paid for it. The questions are whom and why? The answers may vary.

How we going with that strategy?

troll away ozmick - I'm not your brain. Take it out for a spin ... the exercise will do it some good.

You have repeatedly claimed that the democrats and RTA used a flawed strategy. I will fairly ask you for your better one, until you admit you don't have it.

And

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." --The Dalai Lama

Explain again how that is out of context from your moral high ground

[yeeowww]

You wrote, " It's been 10 months now and I can tell you that this has been the absolute WORST 10 months of my previous 7 years here." Why? That amazes me that a political party can do anything in 10 months good or bad. So what happened to you that the party in power is responsible for?

As I recall the Red Tshirt Gang cried the worst when "nothing happened" in the first year under the previous administration. The point is that there were claims made by Thaksin that specifically gave time tables and which were promised in less than 10 months. Please re-read my post and reply specifically to the questions posed before skirting the issues and asking me what makes me sad about this pathetic government.

" It's been 10 months now and I can tell you that this has been the absolute WORST 10 months of my previous 7 years here."

Judging from the above you arrived in Thailand in July 2005, correct? Now tell me who was PM in the period July 2005 up until the coup in September 2006. Thaksin Shiniwatra is the correct answer.

Now this period, so we're told by the coup supporters, is where Thaksin finally lost it, was acting like an autocrat and the only saviour of democracy was (ironically) a coup to oust him. The subsequent years saw a disastrous military junta government who were politically inept, the Asian Financial Crisis, 2 more governments brought down, a military backed democrat party coalition with corrupt coalition partners installed, street demonstrations put down with Thais killing Thais,

And yet, the previous 10 months have been your worst here?

Absolutely. The downward spiral continues. I was actually hoping for good things after the "clone" was seated... but I was mistaken. My business has posted it's worst numbers in 6 years and no relief in sight. But I suppose you retirees who sit around and do little to nothing each day don't really resonate with the severity of the situation. So where is the Thaksin redemption promised? No where. It's all empty drivel and I am suffering tremendously because of all this Shinawatra stupidity and lunacy. He can deliver nothing to the masses and the sooner he evaporates the better off this country will be.

[birdpooguava]

During the protests millions of baht were donated every day by individuals, families, companies, organisations. After almost each speaker/performer they read out the pledges and they were substantial. Pledges of hundreds of thousands of baht were common. There was plenty of money to provide food and pay expenses for those people attending who were obviously sacrificing their regular income.

But I have to read the constant frothing about how it was all funded by the evil fugitive, ruthlessly using the ignorant farmers as cannon fodder to satisfy his megalomania.

It's certainly not all funded by the evil fugitive, there's any number of wealthy elite Reds who made tons of money as a crony of his during his heyday and welcome him back with wallet emptying payments.

Just look at topic threads like 2/3 of the cabinet ministers are millionaires... Science Minister buffoon Plodprasop is worth nearly a billion himself.

It's the Red elite who are the big contributors.... they are the ones who, as you say "pledges of hundreds of thousands of baht"...

The so-called movement couldn't sustain itself for a week if it ran solely dependent upon rank and file Somchai's 100 baht contribution.

.

This is against your party line. You must insist that it was all funded by the evil fugitive megalomaniac!!!

[Buchholz]

Yeah I remember you and your yellow brothers posting this constantly before the election. 'Rats jumping the sinking ship' was a common one

Yeah, I remember your star trek time travel machine from earlier...

I seem to remember certain regular posters being adamant that before the last election PT were in disarray and the people would never vote for a party that supported & funded terrorists.

If you say so.

Before the last election equals before July 3, 2011

whereas...

birdpooguava

Member Since 2012-01-20

[lovetotravel]

My g/f's family had a blunt request to make a "donation" with a promised 5 to 1 return when Thaksin came back. B2000 from people of modest means living in a house with a dirt floor - they felt they had no option.

And yes, the younger people are definitely more aware of Thaksin's criminality. One was invited/paid to attend a "democracy" school, didn't last a day.

It's a common statement among the Issan folk that as soon as Thaksin returns, they'll all be rich. Seriously! If I am not mistaken, he has promised each village 1MM Baht. Just to have fun with.

[hyperdimension]

Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

You forgot to use the word "elderly".

a free bus-ride to BKK is the equivalent of being paid to attend.

It's not equivalent, but it sure helps to increase the numbers, as does the free food and entertainment, when in reality a lot of them probably wouldn't otherwise be bothered to attend.

Edited May 19, 2012 by hyperdimension

[Macmundi]

Bring in the snipers!!! Red means trouble!!!

[Buchholz]

Until then, the tides of power have shifted in favour of PTP.

I would have thought it shifting away with the more frequent and more vocal displeasure, including Thida's veiled threat to the PTP, from their crucial Red Shirts. Add in the dozen Red Shirt Leaders who are Pheu Thai MP's and are being pressured to pull from the main PTP platform of amnesty for all and no change in Art. 112 and populist promises failure, etc. coupled with three successive losses in recent by-elections.

There's no shortage of PTP disunity and the "tides of power" is going out, not coming in.

The Red Shirts and rights groups have called on the new government, led by Thaksin's sister Yingluck, to prosecute soldiers and officials responsible for causing the deaths and injuries, many to unarmed demonstrators.

"We have to seek justice otherwise the use of force to crackdown on protesters may happen again," Red Shirt leader Thida Thavorseth said Friday.

Ah the wonder of after thought.......and when this concept was first proffered on this forum, that Thaksin did not control the red shirts and they were more than capable of pulling away if necessary........your response at the time would be....... it is all about Thaksin, Thaksin controls the red shirts.....no?

It's no after thought. What we are seeing now is a new phenomena.

Absolutely Thaksin was and still is controlling the Reds, but it's being challenged for the first time ever in the many years it has been going on.

When it was first proffered, it certainly wasn't applicable at the time that they are independent and there was certainly no dissent as we are just beginning to see.

Whether it goes further than a few rumblings is yet to be seen, or will quiet down and return to what it was before... we'll see.

To be distinct and separate.... they got a looooong way to go.

.

.

.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Buchholz

[metisdead]

Removed a post that insinuated others were paid to post. If you have any actual evidence please forward it to support. If it's just a lame debating tactic, further references like that may find you without posting rights. Posting of this nature is off topic as well.

Other off topic or inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[kerryk]

You wrote, " It's been 10 months now and I can tell you that this has been the absolute WORST 10 months of my previous 7 years here." Why? That amazes me that a political party can do anything in 10 months good or bad. So what happened to you that the party in power is responsible for?

As I recall the Red Tshirt Gang cried the worst when "nothing happened" in the first year under the previous administration. The point is that there were claims made by Thaksin that specifically gave time tables and which were promised in less than 10 months. Please re-read my post and reply specifically to the questions posed before skirting the issues and asking me what makes me sad about this pathetic government.

" It's been 10 months now and I can tell you that this has been the absolute WORST 10 months of my previous 7 years here."

Judging from the above you arrived in Thailand in July 2005, correct? Now tell me who was PM in the period July 2005 up until the coup in September 2006. Thaksin Shiniwatra is the correct answer.

Now this period, so we're told by the coup supporters, is where Thaksin finally lost it, was acting like an autocrat and the only saviour of democracy was (ironically) a coup to oust him. The subsequent years saw a disastrous military junta government who were politically inept, the Asian Financial Crisis, 2 more governments brought down, a military backed democrat party coalition with corrupt coalition partners installed, street demonstrations put down with Thais killing Thais,

And yet, the previous 10 months have been your worst here?

Absolutely. The downward spiral continues. I was actually hoping for good things after the "clone" was seated... but I was mistaken. My business has posted it's worst numbers in 6 years and no relief in sight. But I suppose you retirees who sit around and do little to nothing each day don't really resonate with the severity of the situation. So where is the Thaksin redemption promised? No where. It's all empty drivel and I am suffering tremendously because of all this Shinawatra stupidity and lunacy. He can deliver nothing to the masses and the sooner he evaporates the better off this country will be.

I was just watching the news on Al Jazeera with a story on the Thai economy with a live interview of the PM in English. She struggled to respond to the interviewers questions but didn't get flustered. Al Jazeera commented on her landslide victory and economic achievements so far and the projections for next year.

Quoting Al Jazeera.

“And there are numbers to back up these signs of recovery. The IMF is forecasting growth of 5.5 per cent for Thailand's economy in 2012 and 7.5 per cent in 2013.

All that is good news for Yingluck Shinawatra, the country's prime minister, who has been in power for a little over nine months.”

[Buchholz]

The Reds are currently by far the most important political movement in Thailand and many are bitter about that reality.

They're also being by far the most violent political movement in Thailand when mixed with that increasing bitterness may soon bring about.... as Thida says... the use of force necessary to crack down on her Red protesters may occur again.

.

You appear to have missed the recent explosions down south.......

....unless of course you accept the southern violence carries no agenda to influence politicians

I assumed birdpoo was speaking on a national scale when he said the most important, which I would agree with (but probably for different reasons). As I posted, on that same national scale they are also the most violent.

If defining to a restricted geographical areas, the Red Shirts are not the most important group in the Deep South, for example.

.

.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Buchholz

[anterian]

The total lack of any common political ground in the TV community is surprising, not for its existence, but the sheer anger with which it is expressed. Perhaps with these current proposals of TV get togethers it would be advisable to have separate events for the two factions, just to prevent bloodshed.

[KireB]

Judging from the above you arrived in Thailand in July 2005, correct? Now tell me who was PM in the period July 2005 up until the coup in September 2006. Thaksin Shiniwatra is the correct answer.

Wrong as usual!

Thaksin was a self appointed care taker Prime Minister at the time!

He was not Royally endorsed, and while he even admitted this and promised to step down, he hung onto it!

And then came September the 6th!

Get your facts right PhiPhiDon!

[Buchholz]

The UDD is not the most violent political movement in Thailand.

On a national scale, which political movement is more violent?

.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Buchholz

[hyperdimension]

Robert Amsterdam, the Canadian lawyer for fugitive ousted ex-premier Thaksin and the UDD, was to deliver a brief on the development of the lawsuit asking the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague to investigate alleged crimes against humanity during 2010's April-May clashes between Red Shirt protesters and government's security forces last year.

Will he have anything to say about his own pending charges in Thailand?

.

I wonder whether he will write another addendum after the release of the DSI's report that states that UDD protesters were responsible for at least 12 deaths. He had already written an addendum in September 2011 after the release in May 2011 of Human Rights Watch's Descent Into Chaos: Thailand’s 2010 Red Shirt Protests and the Government Crackdown.

Here is the Amsterdam's original application: APPLICATION TO INVESTIGATE THE SITUATION OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND WITH REGARD TO THE COMMISSION OF CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY

Here is his addendum: ADDENDUM TO THE APPLICATION TO INVESTIGATETHE SITUATION OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND WITH REGARD TO THE COMMISSION OF CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY

Now we wait patiently for another addendum based on the new findings of the DSI.

Edited May 19, 2012 by hyperdimension

[Buchholz]

During the protests millions of baht were donated every day by individuals, families, companies, organisations. After almost each speaker/performer they read out the pledges and they were substantial. Pledges of hundreds of thousands of baht were common. There was plenty of money to provide food and pay expenses for those people attending who were obviously sacrificing their regular income.

But I have to read the constant frothing about how it was all funded by the evil fugitive, ruthlessly using the ignorant farmers as cannon fodder to satisfy his megalomania.

It's certainly not all funded by the evil fugitive, there's any number of wealthy elite Reds who made tons of money as a crony of his during his heyday and welcome him back with wallet emptying payments.

Just look at topic threads like 2/3 of the cabinet ministers are millionaires... Science Minister buffoon Plodprasop is worth nearly a billion himself.

It's the Red elite who are the big contributors.... they are the ones who, as you say "pledges of hundreds of thousands of baht"...

The so-called movement couldn't sustain itself for a week if it ran solely dependent upon rank and file Somchai's 100 baht contribution.

This is against your party line. You must insist that it was all funded by the evil fugitive megalomaniac!!!

It's just reflective of your own distortions/exaggerations of others' viewpoints.

.

[473geo]

The UDD is not the most violent political movement in Thailand.

On a national scale, which political movement is more violent?

.

The military

[tlansford]

A picture is worth a thousand words we are told. This particular image left me speechless,.

Do we now see the true face of the Red Shirt movement appearing led by a despotic character who resides outside of the Kingdom.

Graphic image courtesy of http://www.facebook....35060922&type=1

"Do we now see the true face of the Red Shirt movement appearing led by a despotic character who resides outside of the Kingdom."

no.

[tlansford]

The UDD is not the most violent political movement in Thailand.

On a national scale, which political movement is more violent?

.

The military

and gee, why does it now have to be "on a national scale"? Ooops - gave the weaseling away...

In the next breadth, or the one before, there are claims that the UDD is not a national movement...

[Buchholz]

The UDD is not the most violent political movement in Thailand.

On a national scale, which political movement is more violent?

The military

[Buchholz]

The UDD is not the most violent political movement in Thailand.

On a national scale, which political movement is more violent?

.

The military

and gee, why does it now have to be "on a national scale"?

because that is what birdpoo implied when he said they are the most important. They certainly are not the most important political movement in the region of the Deep South.

If we apply 473geo's clownish response of the military to most violent, then it extends to the military as also being the most important on a national scale.

So which of your buddies is wrong? birdpoo or 473geo?

.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Buchholz

[tlansford]

-- deleted due to quote limits --

They're also being by far the most violent political movement in Thailand when mixed with that increasing bitterness may soon bring about.... as Thida says... the use of force necessary to crack down on her Red protesters may occur again.

.

You appear to have missed the recent explosions down south........a rather narrow minded statement to suit your agenda.....unless of course you accept the southern violence carries no agenda to influence politicians

The UDD is not the most violent political movement in Thailand. Your point being a most obvious one, but others also ignore the fact that a political environment is made of a mix of many elements and those in Thailand have violent/militant as well as peaceful elements in each faction.

The UDD is, however, clearly the most hated political movement on TVF.

Also

"Reality is that the UDD has a large following among Thai nationals.

Reality is that the UDD has a minuscule following among TVF nationals."

Which group do you think would have the higher level of education on average?

Which group would have the more experience of democracy?

Which group would be better informed of current and historical events?

Which group has the freedom to criticise without physical or financial intimidation?

You seem to have the ability to remain calm while everybody else posts madly. Is it because you can't see what's happening from your ivory tower in the US?

You are a hoot today... Not that your questions have anything directly to do with my post, but certainly, ...

Which group do you think would have the higher level of education on average?

-- this one is questionable... but in spite of the general misconceptions about the make up of the UDD, I do not equate education with intelligence and in the later case, the Thai people / UDD win hands down.

Which group would have the more experience of democracy?

-- based on observations of the number of coup proponents on TVF, the UDD.

Which group would be better informed of current and historical events?

-- you must be joking - have you read what passes as fact here?

Which group has the freedom to criticise without physical or financial intimidation?

-- The UDD is actively criticizing - every day. Do that too much here and you are banned. So again, at least in the relative sense of society vs internet forums, UDD wins hands down.

Any more off-topic questions? No, I take that back.

[tlansford]

There is no such thing as a free bus ride - somebody paid for it. The questions are whom and why? The answers may vary.

How we going with that strategy?

troll away ozmick - I'm not your brain. Take it out for a spin ... the exercise will do it some good.

You have repeatedly claimed that the democrats and RTA used a flawed strategy. I will fairly ask you for your better one, until you admit you don't have it.

And

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." --The Dalai Lama

Explain again how that is out of context from your moral high ground

Do you even know or understand the context of that quote, or do you just like to throw it around as if it supports your violent attitudes?