Family Life / Childrens Future - Thailand Or Uk

[ArranP]

Hello,

In my family there is my wife (thai), me (british), daughter of 4 years and infant son of 7 months.

We have the fortune to choose where we live, in Thailand or the UK. We have been living in UK for the past 4 years but have come to Thailand (Nakhon Sawan as this is my wifes home town) and are intending staying here and putting our child into the local Thai school.

The question that troubles me is should I let my childs education determine where we live ? living in Thailand (Nakhon Sawan) will change the education my child would have received if we were to have stayed in the UK.

How much does our childrens education determine where we live ? Is there such a difference between the Thai and English education systems that it warrants not bringing our children up in Thailand?

Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

Regards

Arran.

[TommoPhysicist]

The Thai education system suits children that are going to be working and living mainly in Thailand.

The UK education system suits children that are mainly going to be working and living mainly in the UK.

Thai education, obedience and rote learning. UK education problem solving and questioning everything.

So vastly different systems.

If you get it wrong, the child will be disadvantaged and not fit well into the society they live in.

(This doesn't apply to children of the super-rich)

Edited May 21, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[KhaoNiaw]

UK education problem solving and questioning everything.

That doesn't sound much like the UK education system I grew up in. Times have changed I supppose.

[kevjohn]

I can not comment on the UK Education system, but if I was responsible for the education of a child,

then being an Aussie, I would choose the Australian Education.

That way, if the child has a Thai parent, then they could attend after school classes, (weekend) to learn Thai, and practice the speaking, reading and writing with the Thai parent.

Then in latter years, if the child returns to Thailand, they will definitely be well placed to secure a better job than they would with just a Thai education and trying to learn english in Thailand.

These are my thoughts on this and hope they may help.

[brit1984]

A few of the top schools in Bangkok can provide an education comparable with decent private schools in UK (but there is nothing that compares with the very top schools in UK).

State schools in both countries are pretty awful. On average (if the average matters) the UK state schools are slightly better educationally but the chance of getting in with the "wrong crowd" is probably higher in UK.

Have you considered Singapore?

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[ArranP]

Have you considered Singapore?

If we were to have stayed in the UK our children would have attended a local state school in North Wales, for the moment we are considering a local state school in Nakhon Sawan.

[edwinclapham]

If you would consider paying for the education St Josephs has a good reputation.

http://www.sjn.ac.th/2009/

Thai version but there must be more information available.

[richard_smith237]

I think if you are comparing like for like: i.e. local state schools in Nakhon Sawan Vs a Local School in Wales - I would suggest that your child will receive a better education in Wales.

Regarding future jobs and location etc: 'Generally'... A UK University education permits a young person to work globally, a Thai University education perhaps limits employment opportunities to Thailand (and international companies within Thailand).

I suspect that ensuring your child develops with a sufficient critical thought process which is so often found lacking in many education systems is the primary decider.

[ArranP]

If you would consider paying for the education St Josephs has a good reputation.

http://www.sjn.ac.th/2009/

Thai version but there must be more information available.

Thank you, we live just behind St.Josephs, it looks an impressive school when looking in from the outside. This is one of my choices...

[seaeagle]

I believe that a good parent will plan so as to give their children the best opportunites and options in life.

Staying here, in the Thai education system, means that you only give them the option of Thailand - absolutely nothing else. Thais, and their culture and knowledge, really fail to cut-it anywhere else.

In the UK, the child will have those options - whether to stay in UK, come here, or work anywhere else in the world.

You also need to look (even at this early age) beyond education. Just what will a child do in Nakhon Sawan when they grow up???

You've had the choices, via your own education and career, to choose where to live. If you bring your child up here, then they will not have those choices.

My recommendation is to stay in North Wales. I'm heading back to Cheshire this summer becasue of this very reason.

[geriatrickid]

Sure, the primary and secondary education system in Thailand isn't the best. However, this can be compensated for by the parents if they are willing to provide a few hours every week helping their kids or doing some extra work.

One of the best attributes of the Thai primary educational system is that it teaches kids to get along and to function in society. . We've all heard the stories of the out of control Thai students, but their behaviour is still tame compared to many kids in western systems. I am still impressed by the overall politeness of the typical Thai primary school students compared to my own experience. True, I am not a grade school teacher, but I did spend almost a decade in an elite "private" school as a student. All that book learning, the exam prep, the formality, the discipline was an absolute waste. The expensive education was of no use to me in university. Role models and having a positive home environment were more important and of more use. The ability to practice skills with my family or to learn to apply skills came from my home environment.

People complain that Thai kids cannot think or engage in critical thought. Well, sorry, that skill comes from the parents. having discussions and taking the time to be a good parent accomplishes that. Giving a kid a book and then discussing it will deliver more benefit than the child sitting in a classroom. There are so many tools available today to help parents supplement the child's education that the issue of a "school" is not as important as it once was.

I think that allowing for an education in Thailand, while supplementing it with additional opportunities will give your child a great foundation. Having a strong grasp of two languages and two cultures doubles your child's chances of success. It is a great opportunity. Take advantage of it.

[misterfloppy]

My daughter has attended the Lanna International School (http://www.lannaist.ac.th/) in Chiang Mai for the past two years.

She loves it though she was initially disappointed at the low level of equipment available in the classrooms compared with what she had been used to in the UK. It took here a little while to settle in and meet the demanding homework requirements but now she has made lots of friends who she will miss when she leaves at the end of this term, though the plan is to return in a few years. We have talked about all this.

It is unfortunate that we have to bring her back to the village school here in Scotland, which, though by all accounts above average for the UK, appears to me to have a poor work ethic in comparison and may not create the driven individual that I feel would be the result of staying at LIST in Chiang Mai. This may be the result of differences in teaching policy and style between the two countries and my interpretation, but this is eventually manifest in a country's culture and people - something I worry about for the long-term future of the UK. The teenage years can be much more of a problem in the UK.

We will be taking her away from LIST even if the building may not be the best. But the not unreasonable fees are spent mostly on high quality teachers - and to my eyes, it shows - with admissions to Oxbridge every year, and a great atmosphere, with none of the bullying that is still resisting attempts to eradicate it in the UK. Perhaps a fee-paying school in the UK would be better, but I'm not in a position to afford that.

A degree at a good UK or international university will allow a career in either or both countries. It will take a good school to achieve this, and from my previous research, St Josephs was at the top of my list if we'd been living in Bankok and I'd been satisfied regarding its Roman Catholic status. Perhaps they'll allow entry if Buddhism (or Evangelical Atheism!) is your religion? Perhaps not.

Even without a degree, an education should prepare the child for adulthood. Other posts on TVF suggest to me that the average Thai school, with its emphasis on doing as you're told and avoiding questioning the teacher, should be avoided at all costs!

[ArranP]

We have found a school in Nakhon Sawan called Yuwapat. It is not a state school but is privately funded with their own syllabus. The children are encouraged to question what is being taught and spend half the time learning in Thai and half the time in English.

Apparently if you want your children to maintain an English dialect then there are only 2 options in Nakhon Sawan 1 is Yuwapat a privately funded school with their own syllabus and a teaching approach that encourages the children to question what is being taught and the other is a Thai state school with an English programme called La Salle.

[Grendel]

The Thai education system suits children that are going to be working and living mainly in Thailand.

The UK education system suits children that are mainly going to be working and living mainly in the UK.

Thai education, obedience and rote learning. UK education problem solving and questioning everything.

So vastly different systems.

I agree with your first sentence.

Working as a teacher in an international school in Thailand now and having worked in state schools in Britain before. The values you describe about the British education system are dying. In the 1970s sure these were the values but Britain long ago moved back to a discouraging thinking and school is increasingly memorising facts by rote. Many schools still reject this approach but their numbers are dwindling, Ofsted inspectors give them lousy ratings and the by rote schools top grades. Last year there was a major controvesy when the Times revealed a large number of school teachers themselves removed their children from Ofsted Outstanding rated schools and put them in average rated ones, because the education standards are higher. As exam results go up thanks to the rote learning, it's worth noting all Britains universities are sending reports to the government complaining of the poor standards of new students who have no critical thinking capacity.

A few of the top schools in Bangkok can provide an education comparable with decent private schools in UK (but there is nothing that compares with the very top schools in UK).

State schools in both countries are pretty awful. On average (if the average matters) the UK state schools are slightly better educationally but the chance of getting in with the "wrong crowd" is probably higher in UK.

Many International schools in Thailand are quite excellent, not just Bangkok, and offer a better education than most British schools. However the International School market in Thailand has just gone (explode) now there are hundreds and many are of dubious quality, recruit untrained teachers on low salaries and are run by completely by people who have never worked in the education sector let alone a school before.

Also it is worth noting the GCSE pass rate of children who go to the top international schools in Thailand, from kindergaten to secondary, speaking English in all subjects studying the old British Curriculum, based on thinking skills, critical thought and no rote learning have a pass rate of around 20%.

I've worked on school adventure camps in the UK with kids from the absolute top public schools to the worst inner city ones, what surprised me was how little practical ability these public school kids have, they had the knowledge but in an outdoors adventure situation no ability to apply it and continually waited for leadership to give them instructions. On the other hand we had a lot of kids from middle income family country schools and they surpass any other demiograph of children we worked with. The inner city kids (aaargh)

Regarding future jobs and location etc: 'Generally'... A UK University education permits a young person to work globally, a Thai University education perhaps limits employment opportunities to Thailand (and international companies within Thailand).

good point,

Sure, the primary and secondary education system in Thailand isn't the best. However, this can be compensated for by the parents if they are willing to provide a few hours every week helping their kids or doing some extra work.

One of the best attributes of the Thai primary educational system is that it teaches kids to get along and to function in society. . We've all heard the stories of the out of control Thai students, but their behaviour is still tame compared to many kids in western systems. I am still impressed by the overall politeness of the typical Thai primary school students compared to my own experience. True, I am not a grade school teacher, but I did spend almost a decade in an elite "private" school as a student. All that book learning, the exam prep, the formality, the discipline was an absolute waste. The expensive education was of no use to me in university. Role models and having a positive home environment were more important and of more use. The ability to practice skills with my family or to learn to apply skills came from my home environment.

People complain that Thai kids cannot think or engage in critical thought. Well, sorry, that skill comes from the parents. having discussions and taking the time to be a good parent accomplishes that. Giving a kid a book and then discussing it will deliver more benefit than the child sitting in a classroom. There are so many tools available today to help parents supplement the child's education that the issue of a "school" is not as important as it once was.

I think that allowing for an education in Thailand, while supplementing it with additional opportunities will give your child a great foundation. Having a strong grasp of two languages and two cultures doubles your child's chances of success. It is a great opportunity. Take advantage of it.

Only a small percentage of a child's learning is done from classes at school.Some comes from socialising at school, most from home and the parents and also a lot from going out with friends. Take away any of these factors and it becomes noticeable. Rich Thai kids who are never allowed out the house alone, unlike the poor ones who travel miles playing with their mates, homeschooled kids, kids with bad parents and so on all grow up lacking an important aspect of education.

An inner city UK school provides a social Darwinist nightmare for the kids of becoming predator or prey. A Thai school is a warm friendly environment where cooperation, group harmony, group thinking, respect for elders, the Budhist religion, unquestioning patriotism and non conflict are encouraged, education takes second place to this.. Children seem to remember their school days fondly. On the other hand there is the poor quality of teaching, 50+ classes, little or no education of value and school are set up for teachers perks not educational quality. Then there is of course extra classes, where children have to go to actually learn something and spend their evenings and weekends which should be spent learning practical life skills, pursuing interests and hobbies, to get the basic education they are not getting at school.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Grendel

[aussiebebe]

You know, some Thais do get access to UK higher education so the choice between UK/Thai school education is somewhat blurred. Of course many wealthy Thais can afford this option for their children as a matter of course but the brother of a secretary at the company I work for here in Bangkok recently won a scholarship for a place on a PhD course at Sheffield University. Her family is far from wealthy and she and her brother went to a local Thai school. He's arguable more employable than the average Welsh school-kid who gained a BA in Media Studies on the basis of their A-level Media studies grades.

[bkk_mike]

I know Thais working in NY (one in an investment bank).

They got their Bachelors degree in Thailand (Thammasat if I remember correctly for one), but then got a Masters in the US, and got the jobs after getting their Masters.

Yes, of course, they speak fluent English, but it is possible to get a decent job in the West after being brought up in the Thai system. (Don't get me wrong, it's definitely hard as they had to work part-time at the University to get their fees reduced to something affordable while doing their Masters, but it can be done.)

I also have a niece currently studying at the University of London after graduating high school in Thailand. (It's expensive though, and there's an extra year of study, with a lot of additional English before the normal first year of the Bachelor's degree course because they need to confirm that the student is capable enough as they won't have done IB or A Levels or SATs or anything else recognisable internationally.)

And remember - If the intention is for the child to go to University in the UK, Student Loans have an EU residency requirement... The child has to be resident in the EU for 3 years prior to attending University in order to get the non-International fees, and Loans to pay for them, etc.

Edited June 6, 2012 by bkk_mike

[brit1984]

You know, some Thais do get access to UK higher education so the choice between UK/Thai school education is somewhat blurred. Of course many wealthy Thais can afford this option for their children as a matter of course but the brother of a secretary at the company I work for here in Bangkok recently won a scholarship for a place on a PhD course at Sheffield University. Her family is far from wealthy and she and her brother went to a local Thai school. He's arguable more employable than the average Welsh school-kid who gained a BA in Media Studies on the basis of their A-level Media studies grades.

Having some obscure connection to a Thai person who is a post-graduate student at a random university in the UK doesn't really go far to demonstrate the quality of the Thai education system. Actually, the fact that you considered such a story worthy of note suggests quite the opposite.

[Forethat]

To answer your question:

Get out of Thailand.