Thai Wife Underpaid In Uk

[wana]

Tell her a fictional story; same as yours but takes place in Thailand. An Englishman comes to Thailand and breaks Thai laws by hiring thais and paying them less than the law allows while increasing their hours.

See what her response is then.

Regardless of her answer; this alien is breaking the laws of UK and screwing the taxpayers and honest working UK citizens. He should be nailed to the wall.

Has the bosses nationality been mentioned ?

no,but that poster does not let facts get in the way of a good rant about anything on any given day .........

[Bangkokhatter]

Unfortunately it does happen all too often in the restaurant trade and 1 of the practices i really hate is when the owners use staff tips to make their salaries match the minimum wage.

Am not sure if this illegal though ? still sucks if it isn't

[David48]

So bigdave1960, one very important question has not been answered from your opening statement.

Does your wife hold an appropriate Visa for working legally in the UK?

We mostly all agree that what her Boss is doing is plainly wrong and should be admonished.

Some believe that the question of her feeling comfortable and acclimatising to her new Culture outweighs the monetary benefit of either the loss of her job and/or higher wages.

I will prempt that I don't know if her Settlement Visa automaticially allows her to work.

[garrya]

Seemingly, this is a typical way how Thais treat their employees abroad. I had a Thai gf in London and she had a surprisingly lot of friends who we went out with a couple of times. They all worked in Thai restaurants and/or Thai groceries, none of them made the minimum wage. I asked why they don't move on, they just shrugged their shoulders and said they were happy with it.

[garrya]

So bigdave1960, one very important question has not been answered from your opening statement.

Does your wife hold an appropriate Visa for working legally in the UK?

We mostly all agree that what her Boss is doing is plainly wrong and should be admonished.

Some believe that the question of her feeling comfortable and acclimatising to her new Culture outweighs the monetary benefit of either the loss of her job and/or higher wages.

I will prempt that I don't know if her Settlement Visa automaticially allows her to work.

It does allow her.

[smokie36]

Unfortunately it does happen all too often in the restaurant trade and 1 of the practices i really hate is when the owners use staff tips to make their salaries match the minimum wage.

Am not sure if this illegal though ? still sucks if it isn't

No, tips cannot be counted towards your minimum wage in the UK.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employment/employees/thenationalminimumwage/index.htm

[necronx99]

Let her do it until she realizes she is being exploited. The penny will drop sooner or later.

In the meantime keep exacting records of hours worked and once she wipes up report and go for back pay and damages.

[Kilgore Trout]

Tell her a fictional story; same as yours but takes place in Thailand. An Englishman comes to Thailand and breaks Thai laws by hiring thais and paying them less than the law allows while increasing their hours.

See what her response is then.

Regardless of her answer; this alien is breaking the laws of UK and screwing the taxpayers and honest working UK citizens. He should be nailed to the wall.

Has the bosses nationality been mentioned ?

After re-reading it, I guess not. If I am wrong then I have made an ass out of u and me

[wana]

Tell her a fictional story; same as yours but takes place in Thailand. An Englishman comes to Thailand and breaks Thai laws by hiring thais and paying them less than the law allows while increasing their hours.

See what her response is then.

Regardless of her answer; this alien is breaking the laws of UK and screwing the taxpayers and honest working UK citizens. He should be nailed to the wall.

Has the bosses nationality been mentioned ?

After re-reading it, I guess not. If I am wrong then I have made an ass out of u and me

same day ,differnt ____!

[DP25]

Unfortunately it does happen all too often in the restaurant trade and 1 of the practices i really hate is when the owners use staff tips to make their salaries match the minimum wage.

Am not sure if this illegal though ? still sucks if it isn't

In the UK no, but in most of the US it is legal and normal. I some states you can pay a waiter as little as $2 an hour even though federal minimum wage for other jobs is $7.25 an hour

Edited May 23, 2012 by DP25

[norrona]

do the 'Thai' thing and grass the boss up to the authorities.....get the UKBA round to the restuarant as well so it really shakes everyone up in there including your wife who if she is being exploited will not be prosecuted...the authorities may question you as to why you let things like this carry on to someone you are married to and have brought over from a foreign country though...

[KNJ]

Get her to insisit on the NI number and record of payments.

Report it, it is this willingness to accept lower than applicable law wages which is contributing to the damage of the social welfare system, loss of jobs high unemployment, ecconomic migrants.

That loss of revenue reflects directly on teh governments ability to fund other benefits, ( Freezing rate of pension for expat pensioners included {NOT ME before you rant} medical services, etc )

If she does not complain then you should

[harrry]

Sadly people who work for illegal wages make it hard for the honest worker. THere used to be a word for them.

[Berkshire]

Unfortunately it does happen all too often in the restaurant trade and 1 of the practices i really hate is when the owners use staff tips to make their salaries match the minimum wage.

Am not sure if this illegal though ? still sucks if it isn't

In the UK no, but in most of the US it is legal and normal. I some states you can pay a waiter as little as $2 an hour even though federal minimum wage for other jobs is $7.25 an hour

Was thinking the same thing. In the US, some (if not all/most?) restaurant wait jobs pay less than minimum wage as tips are basically assumed. It generally works out to more than minimum wage if tips are included.

[Bangkokhatter]

Unfortunately it does happen all too often in the restaurant trade and 1 of the practices i really hate is when the owners use staff tips to make their salaries match the minimum wage.

Am not sure if this illegal though ? still sucks if it isn't

In the UK no, but in most of the US it is legal and normal. I some states you can pay a waiter as little as $2 an hour even though federal minimum wage for other jobs is $7.25 an hour

Was thinking the same thing. In the US, some (if not all/most?) restaurant wait jobs pay less than minimum wage as tips are basically assumed. It generally works out to more than minimum wage if tips are included.

Not such a bad practice if like in the U.S they end up with all tips and it means their wages are higher, but in the U.K some restaurants just use the tips to pay their staff up to the minimum wage and keep the rest.

[Bangkokhatter]

So bigdave1960, one very important question has not been answered from your opening statement.

Does your wife hold an appropriate Visa for working legally in the UK?

We mostly all agree that what her Boss is doing is plainly wrong and should be admonished.

Some believe that the question of her feeling comfortable and acclimatising to her new Culture outweighs the monetary benefit of either the loss of her job and/or higher wages.

I will prempt that I don't know if her Settlement Visa automaticially allows her to work.

Settlement visa and National Insurance number which is personally applied for and then they can work where they want, for the length of the visa, without visiting any immigration office

[Berkshire]

Unfortunately it does happen all too often in the restaurant trade and 1 of the practices i really hate is when the owners use staff tips to make their salaries match the minimum wage.

Am not sure if this illegal though ? still sucks if it isn't

In the UK no, but in most of the US it is legal and normal. I some states you can pay a waiter as little as $2 an hour even though federal minimum wage for other jobs is $7.25 an hour

Was thinking the same thing. In the US, some (if not all/most?) restaurant wait jobs pay less than minimum wage as tips are basically assumed. It generally works out to more than minimum wage if tips are included.

Not such a bad practice if like in the U.S they end up with all tips and it means their wages are higher, but in the U.K some restaurants just use the tips to pay their staff up to the minimum wage and keep the rest.

Is that right (in the UK)? Well that's pretty messed up. Some of these waiters/waitresses in the US make some big tips, especially in high-end restaurants. My understanding is that they don't declare it all (for tax purposes), but have to declare some to keep the IRS happy. Not sure if there's some sort of system that they use. But yes, in the states, the wait help gets to keep their tips.

[edwinclapham]

Employees having to rely on tips to make up their salaries is pretty disgusting.

The UK have taken on this tip culture with taxis, hairdressers, restaurants etc. Thankfully in Oz we dont subscribe to this nonsense.

We give a gift at Christmas time to our "services" but even then the people are totally flabbergasted and slightly embarrassed.

[David48]

So bigdave1960, one very important question has not been answered from your opening statement.

Does your wife hold an appropriate Visa for working legally in the UK?

We mostly all agree that what her Boss is doing is plainly wrong and should be admonished.

Some believe that the question of her feeling comfortable and acclimatising to her new Culture outweighs the monetary benefit of either the loss of her job and/or higher wages.

I will prempt that I don't know if her Settlement Visa automaticially allows her to work.

Settlement visa and National Insurance number which is personally applied for and then they can work where they want, for the length of the visa, without visiting any immigration office

So not I am not so sure ...

If she has a Settlement visa, is it automatic condition of that Visa that she can work ... or does she have to apply for it?

[Trembly]

It is a dilemma but one that cost more in the long run.

Yes the restaurant is acting illegally ..

http://www.direct.go...Tax/DG_10010537

What about cash in hand?

It's illegal for your employer to pay you cash in hand without deducting tax and National Insurance contributions from your wages.

If you accept money in this way, you risk losing your employment rights and the right to some benefits, such as:

• maternity or paternity leave
  
• sick pay
  
• Jobseeker's Allowance
  

In addition you could end up having to pay the tax and National Insurance contributions yourself.

Personally I would be very careful because you guys could stand to loose more than your pittance hourly rate.

Although I disagree with your wife's exploitation, I was reading with some degree of indifference until I got to this post.

If your wife intends to stay in the UK and get UK citizenship she should always stay on the right side of the Inland Revenue. Once those buggers get onto you for any reason they will be impossible to shake off and your wife's tax avoidance could cost her the opportunity to gain British Citizenship, never mind back tax.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Trembly

[7by7]

So bigdave1960, one very important question has not been answered from your opening statement.

Does your wife hold an appropriate Visa for working legally in the UK?

We mostly all agree that what her Boss is doing is plainly wrong and should be admonished.

Some believe that the question of her feeling comfortable and acclimatising to her new Culture outweighs the monetary benefit of either the loss of her job and/or higher wages.

I will prempt that I don't know if her Settlement Visa automaticially allows her to work.

Settlement visa and National Insurance number which is personally applied for and then they can work where they want, for the length of the visa, without visiting any immigration office

So not I am not so sure ...

If she has a Settlement visa, is it automatic condition of that Visa that she can work ... or does she have to apply for it?

David, with respect you have commented before on UK immigration matters when, as an Australian, you have shown that you do not know enough about UK immigration law to do so. I know nothing about Australian immigration law, which is why I don't comment on it!

Yes, a UK settlement visa allows the holder to work; no other applications for work permits or whatever are necessary.

[Trembly]

So bigdave1960, one very important question has not been answered from your opening statement.

Does your wife hold an appropriate Visa for working legally in the UK?

We mostly all agree that what her Boss is doing is plainly wrong and should be admonished.

Some believe that the question of her feeling comfortable and acclimatising to her new Culture outweighs the monetary benefit of either the loss of her job and/or higher wages.

I will prempt that I don't know if her Settlement Visa automaticially allows her to work.

Yes it does. Holding a Settlement Visa makes her a resident of the UK with full right of abode and full liability for tax.

[7by7]

If your wife intends to stay in the UK and get UK citizenship she should always stay on the right side of the Inland Revenue. Once those buggers get onto you for any reason they will be impossible to shake and it could cost your wife the opportunity to gain British Citizenship.

Indeed. It could even effect her ILR application.

If she is being paid below the minimum wage then she is probably being paid cash in hand as well.

Does she get a proper pay slip showing how much tax and NIC has been deducted?

If not and she is being paid gross then she is liable for any tax and NIC due. Even if her earnings are too low for her to pay any she still has to complete a SA return to tell HMRC this and is breaking the law if she doesn't.

If you don't want to get involved, it may be worth an anonymous tip to the UKBA. If the restaurant is paying below minimum wage they are likely to be employing people whose visas do not allow them to work, or students working more than the 20 hours a week they are allowed. Even if they are not a visit from a UKBA enforcement team may shake them up a bit.

On a different note; when my wife arrived she did not want to work in a Thai restaurant, even though she was offered a job in one. Her reasoning being that working only with Thais meant she would be speaking Thai most of the time and her English wouldn't improve. It took a few months, but then she did get a job working with Anglophones and her English improved rapidly.

[maxme]

If the owner of the restaurant is reported, he will be in a lot of trouble with the authorities. What he is doing is illegal. As for your wife, if she feels comfortable then leave her be for now until she gains confidence to move onto bigger and better things. You must realise how daunting it must be for her and she's still earning more than she was in Thailand so she doesn't see it as much of an issue.

Try to softly encourage her to do a different job which pays better but don't force her!

I can't believe the suggestions I'm hearing here. Letting her carry on like everything is status quo is misleading her into believing that this is normal. The fact that Thais and Farangs have a different set of thinking regarding these social aspects of life shows each any everone have to adapt to the situation they are in. While in Thailand this sort of what you have to take in the daily life, in the west we built up a society where we don't have to put up with this kind of nonsens, so why should we then?

Farang000999 was quite blunt and harsh but according me... spot on. She has to rely on her husband that he knows better about how it works in his country. She has to adapt and learn that these kind of exploitations exist everywhere and thus should learn avoiding getting into this kind of situation again. Isn't the problem with intregation that the foreigners rather stick with their countrymen rather than mix with the locals?

It's better she adapts to the English society as soon as possible than taking poor advice and getting scammed by people who don't even realize what it is like to live in a western society.

Edited May 23, 2012 by maxme

[StreetCowboy]

I suppose that is why so many of us choose to live in Thailand, and why those of us who try to make a living in the UK struggle internationally. I'm delighted that she and her employer are doing their bit to make the UK competitive and roll back the nanny state bureaucracy that has apparently driven so many of us out of the country.

There's no way I would make a fuss to my employer about getting the mimnimum wage, and I am glad that I am free to negotiate whatever he and I both feel is appropriate for my services. If she feels she is worth more, then perhaps she should take her services elsewhere, rather than creating work for lawyers and bureaucrats

SC

Edited May 23, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary quote of preceding post removed.

[7by7]

The point being that she isn't getting the minimum wage, she is getting less than that. She is also probably not paying tax and NIC; which will effect her rights to benefits and a pension in the future.

She is being exploited and her employer is probably fully aware of that. Are the prices in this restaurant lower than others locally to reflect the low wages paid? I doubt it.

She obviously isn't aware of the exploitation and should be made so. She should also be made aware of any consequences which may effect her later on. Then if she chooses to carry on, that is up to her

NB.

As it has been queried by a member, I make this post as a member; obviously I would have thought. It is not a moderating action, but a members comment. Feel free to comment on it if you wish (but not this bit!).

Edited May 23, 2012 by 7by7

[7by7]

An off topic post has been removed.

Stick to the topic, please.

[wana]

I suppose that is why so many of us choose to live in Thailand, and why those of us who try to make a living in the UK struggle internationally. I'm delighted that she and her employer are doing their bit to make the UK competitive and roll back the nanny state bureaucracy that has apparently driven so many of us out of the country.

There's no way I would make a fuss to my employer about getting the mimnimum wage, and I am glad that I am free to negotiate whatever he and I both feel is appropriate for my services. If she feels she is worth more, then perhaps she should take her services elsewhere, rather than creating work for lawyers and bureaucrats

SC

youre overlooking a pretty major point

these laws in the so called nanny state are in place to ensure

the rich and the greedy dont take advantage of the stupid and the uneducated

just because someone will wash dishes for 2 pound 50 pence an hour because its more money then they get on a rice farm in

isarn doesnt make the employer any less of a cheating scumbag

hes riping off the staff and the revenue ,by declaring lower staff wages for tax or maybe none at all

there is many things wrong with nanny states ,but making sure everyone gets a fair salary is not what id consider one of them

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/migrantworkers/nmw.htm#1

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Yes I'll continue to advocate letting her do what seems best to her, obviously being careful not to jeopardize her own legitimate status herself.

If that's threatened then she'll most likely want to give it up no matter how much she's enjoying it, but just present the facts and let her make up her own mind.

Definitely don't IMO get involved in making trouble for the employer, not your business and could well cause problems for your family and not solve the evil "exploitation" issue anyway, may well be officials/police taking backhanders there not as if that's unheard of eh?

[StreetCowboy]

I suppose that is why so many of us choose to live in Thailand, and why those of us who try to make a living in the UK struggle internationally. I'm delighted that she and her employer are doing their bit to make the UK competitive and roll back the nanny state bureaucracy that has apparently driven so many of us out of the country.

There's no way I would make a fuss to my employer about getting the mimnimum wage, and I am glad that I am free to negotiate whatever he and I both feel is appropriate for my services. If she feels she is worth more, then perhaps she should take her services elsewhere, rather than creating work for lawyers and bureaucrats

SC

youre overlooking a pretty major point

these laws in the so called nanny state are in place to ensure

the rich and the greedy dont take advantage of the stupid and the uneducated

just because someone will wash dishes for 2 pound 50 pence an hour because its more money then they get on a rice farm in

isarn doesnt make the employer any less of a cheating scumbag

hes riping off the staff and the revenue ,by declaring lower staff wages for tax or maybe none at all

there is many things wrong with nanny states ,but making sure everyone gets a fair salary is not what id consider one of them

http://www.hmrc.gov....rkers/nmw.htm#1

A fair salary is what you can negotiate. The minimum wage legislation passes the burden of the under-employed to small businesses who must pay over the odds for second rate staff, or employ illegal workers (even if only illegal because they are working for less than the minimum wage... but safer to employ illegal immigrants who are less likely to complain or whinge about their conditions). Anyway, it passes the burden of the underemployed onto small businesses, and thus hides it from the public accounts. Furthermore, it contributes to unemployment, since employers cannot afford to take on as many staff as they might like.

Its all part of the bureaucratic nightmare that is making me regret ever investing in Glasgow slums. I should have put my money into new concrete in HK or Thailand or Malaysia or somewhere, and let the East End of Glasgow slide into ruin and anarchy. Instead, I am forced t deal with Multiple Occupancy Permits, and landlord registration, and Councll Tax, all administered by parochial petty-fogging bureaucrats with more time than sense.

And don't get me started on VAT - turning a nation of shop-keepers into a nation of unpaid tax collectors... and tax dodgers...

SC