Concept 2 Rower Model D (Exercise For Fat Loss)

[GarryP]

32 minutes ago, tropo said:

(Did you not read my long review of the SkiErg above? I made a big effort for you LOL)

 

I don't find it pleasant to row below 25 for long periods. When I do, it's for relatively short periods. It's good if you want to develop more strength, but that can also put your back at greater risk of injury. It's also good for technique training as you have more time to think.

 

If you want to get the feel at lower stroke rates and finding it difficult, just lower the damper setting.

Read the SkiErg review in full. My back has improved greatly since I started using the rower. No problems with my knees yet. But will keep it in mind as I age more. 

 

I have the damper setting set so the drag factor is 115, which is a damper setting of nearly 5. I would have thought I would need to increase the damper setting, not lower it, to increase the drag and lower the stroke rate. Anyway, from my reading on the subject they recommend a drag factor of 110 to 125 for cardio.  

[tropo]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

Read the SkiErg review in full. My back has improved greatly since I started using the rower. No problems with my knees yet. But will keep it in mind as I age more. 

 

I have the damper setting set so the drag factor is 115, which is a damper setting of nearly 5. I would have thought I would need to increase the damper setting, not lower it, to increase the drag and lower the stroke rate. Anyway, from my reading on the subject they recommend a drag factor of 110 to 125 for cardio.  

I think you misunderstood me. Perhaps from reading my review, you got the impression I'm a cripple LOL.

 

I can row quite well (I've done close to 8000m in 30 minutes in the last year). My back doesn't usually hurt when I row. It's not perfect, but neither is yours. It stays good because I'm always aware of it when I row and look after it by being very conscious of how it feels. I had an injury recently that was caused in the squat and maybe heavy cable rows but it carried over to most activities. Fortunately, I'm almost back to normal on the rower. The thing is that I like HIIT. That involves caning the machine for a short period, followed by a short rest, for a set number of intervals. To do that I need to get the pace down to the 1:30's - 1:40's to get the desired heart rate. That's very intense rowing and puts a lot of stress on the back. 

 

The point is that the back is always vulnerable when you row due to the position of your spine and if you push it very hard, it could well become a problem. It's about preventing a problem, not waiting until there is a problem.

 

When you get fitter you have to row harder to get the same benefit - that's when the problems start. Not right now, but several years ago I was so fit that even when I rowed very hard, the heart rate stayed relatively low. At that stage, I had to put a huge effort into the rowing to get the heart rate to a level that will stress it sufficiently for the desired cardio vascular conditioning.

 

About the damper settings. I think you misunderstand how it works. Low damper settings allow free airflow through the flywheel cage (by closing off the external vent holes), allowing the flywheel to keep spinning freely. When you raise the damper settings you open the vents (holes in the cage), causing the flywheel to slow due to air resistance. The flywheel slows down faster the higher the setting and requires more power to get it spinning again. On each stroke more power is required to get it spinning again.

 

If you want to try low stroke rates, start by lowering the damper settings - then increase it as you get stronger.

 

Personally, I use varying stroke rates and various damper settings, all the way to 10 on some occasions.

 

If I'm doing intervals I'll sometimes change the damper settings for each interval. eg. 1st interval - setting 5... and up one for each successive interval, and then down again, one at a time back to 5.

 

Sometimes I'll row a minute at a stroke rate of 30/32 (for example). That's in time to the beat of the music I play. Then down to say 25 for a minute. I play with both damper settings and stroke rate. It also helps to pass the time on boring longer rows.

 

 

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

I think you misunderstood me. Perhaps from reading my review, you got the impression I'm a cripple LOL.

 

I can row quite well (I've done close to 8000m in 30 minutes in the last year). My back doesn't usually hurt when I row. It's not perfect, but neither is yours. It stays good because I'm always aware of it when I row and look after it by being very conscious of how it feels. I had an injury recently that was caused in the squat and maybe heavy cable rows but it carried over to most activities. Fortunately, I'm almost back to normal on the rower. The thing is that I like HIIT. That involves caning the machine for a short period, followed by a short rest, for a set number of intervals. To do that I need to get the pace down to the 1:30's - 1:40's to get the desired heart rate. That's very intense rowing and puts a lot of stress on the back. 

 

The point is that the back is always vulnerable when you row due to the position of your spine and if you push it very hard, it could well become a problem. It's about preventing a problem, not waiting until there is a problem.

 

When you get fitter you have to row harder to get the same benefit - that's when the problems start. Not right now, but several years ago I was so fit that even when I rowed very hard, the heart rate stayed relatively low. At that stage, I had to put a huge effort into the rowing to get the heart rate to a level that will stress it sufficiently for the desired cardio vascular conditioning.

 

About the damper settings. I think you misunderstand how it works. Low damper settings allow free airflow through the flywheel cage (by closing off the external vent holes), allowing the flywheel to keep spinning freely. When you raise the damper settings you open the vents (holes in the cage), causing the flywheel to slow due to air resistance. The flywheel slows down faster the higher the setting and requires more power to get it spinning again. On each stroke more power is required to get it spinning again.

 

If you want to try low stroke rates, start by lowering the damper settings - then increase it as you get stronger.

 

Personally, I use varying stroke rates and various damper settings, all the way to 10 on some occasions.

 

If I'm doing intervals I'll sometimes change the damper settings for each interval. eg. 1st interval - setting 5... and up one for each successive interval, and then down again, one at a time back to 5.

 

Sometimes I'll row a minute at a stroke rate of 30/32 (for example). That's in time to the beat of the music I play. Then down to say 25 for a minute. I play with both damper settings and stroke rate. It also helps to pass the time on boring longer rows.

 

 

Apologies, I did not mean to infer anything about your health. I understand you are far from a cripple and are very conscientious about your fitness. Much fitter than me for certain.  I am 55 in 3 months, 79 to 80 kgs depending on when I weigh myself, 181cms tall and now reasonably fit. But I want to continue bringing my weight down another couple of kgs. I would be happy with a high 77 low 78kg as long as it is constant.  

 

I used to use an exercise bike 5 days a week for 30 minutes a day but stopped for a couple of years and just cycled at weekends. Two years ago, I stopped drinking alcohol (gave up ciggies about 8 years ago) and started going to the gym at the weekend and cycling.  Finally, bought the rower after seeing Roblok's machine,  reading up about it and seeing what you folks were doing on this  thread.  Bought it in February this year and up to about 3 weeks ago was using it on average 5 days a week (no visits to the gym).  I will get back into fully using it again in the next few days.  I stopped exercising in the evenings after work and started getting up at 6 am three days a week to exercise before going to work. On Saturdays and Sundays I usually row about 9 am. 

 

I even bought a Concept2 for my son last month as he had tried mine and thought it so much better than his exercise bike, which had just given up the ghost, and much more convenient than going to the gym for cardio. 

 

Anyway, back to your post, I understand the damper settings and the higher the damper setting the greater the resistance. Thus, the higher the damper number, the more power needed but the slower the stroke rate. I am also mainly using it for cardio and from what I have read the ideal drag factor for this is between  10 to 125. Perhaps, to get Taveewat's figures I would need to raise my damper setting, increasing the drag factor to about 130 to 140.  

 

Taveewat, what drag factor do you use?

 

I use bluetooth headphones patched into my phone when using the rower. I have found it much less boring listening to music while rowing. Also the beat does seem to help with my rhythm. 

 

 

[TaveewatLim]

5 hours ago, tropo said:

(Did you not read my long review of the SkiErg above? I made a big effort for you LOL)

 

I don't find it pleasant to row below 25 for long periods. When I do, it's for relatively short periods. It's good if you want to develop more strength, but that can also put your back at greater risk of injury. It's also good for technique training as you have more time to think.

 

If you want to get the feel at lower stroke rates and finding it difficult, just lower the damper setting.

Yes, it's use more strength and muscle.

I'll lower my damper setting and try to row at 26 spm and check my average heart rate again.

[TaveewatLim]

14 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I even bought a Concept2 for my son last month as he had tried mine and thought it so much better than his exercise bike, which had just given up the ghost, and much more convenient than going to the gym for cardio. 

Maybe you and your son should try row pro software?.

I really want to try rowing online, but nobody row online in my time zone?.

[TaveewatLim]

18 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Taveewat, what drag factor do you use?

I remember that about 165.

[GarryP]

15 minutes ago, TaveewatLim said:

I remember that about 165.

Wow. No wonder you are rowing at only 20 s/m.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

Wow. No wonder you are rowing at only 20 s/m.

When the honeymoon period wears off you may want to experiment with different stroke rates and damper settings just to alleviate the inevitable boredom of long straight rows. It better to start off with the same damper setting while experimenting with different stroke rates than changing them both at the same time. I have my sweet spot, which is 5 (I'll have to check the drag factor, but it's the same as a new machine as I keep the flywheel very clean). At that damper setting, I spend time at different stroke rates. When I'm doing HIIT the stroke rate will be all over the place.

 

Dark Horse has a very interesting video about damper settings. He suggests that strong muscular guys are better off with lower settings, which forces them to develop more speed/power, whereas lean, aerobic running types should use the high damper settings to develop more strength.

 

BTW, I think you're doing very well. You mentioned you maintain 7000 - 7200m on 30 minutes rows. That's a very decent pace and you're only been at it a short time.

[TaveewatLim]

Today Facebook show my picture of past rowing data 3 year ago.I used to row at 30 spm and got the same distance as my present rowing.

I try to row at 26 spm at this morning but I feel uncomfortable at this stroke, maybe I have to take time for adaptation.

[GarryP]

22 minutes ago, TaveewatLim said:

Today Facebook show my picture of past rowing data 3 year ago.I used to row at 30 spm and got the same distance as my present rowing.

I try to row at 26 spm at this morning but I feel uncomfortable at this stroke, maybe I have to take time for adaptation.

That is nearly the same as my current rows. I think I average about 2:07 per 500 m. Like you, my first and last 500s are usually, but not always, the fastest. This morning only managed 7,070  with a stroke rate of 29 but I haven't been on the rower since last Thursday. Went to Macau for a long weekend. 

 

I never got around to buying a heart rate monitor. Are they particularly important? I don't compete in anything. Just to keep fit.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

That is nearly the same as my current rows. I think I average about 2:07 per 500 m. Like you, my first and last 500s are usually, but not always, the fastest. This morning only managed 7,070  with a stroke rate of 29 but I haven't been on the rower since last Thursday. Went to Macau for a long weekend. 

 

I never got around to buying a heart rate monitor. Are they particularly important? I don't compete in anything. Just to keep fit.

Are they important? They are more than important - they are essential. How do you know how hard you're pushing your heart without one. The older you are, the more important they are.

 

If I'd known you're training without one I would have mentioned this long ago. The Concept2 rower is made for the Garmin HR chest strap as your HR shows up on your PM5 monitor. You can buy them on eBay or get one sent directly from Concept2. You don't need the wrist receiver. The Concept2 distributor in Penang may stock them, which could be sent quickly and economically. I bought mine with the Concept2 as an extra.

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

Are they important? They are more than important - they are essential. How do you know how hard you're pushing your heart without one. The older you are, the more important they are.

 

If I'd known you're training without one I would have mentioned this long ago. The Concept2 rower is made for the Garmin HR chest strap as your HR shows up on your PM5 monitor. You can buy them on eBay or get one sent directly from Concept2. You don't need the wrist receiver. The Concept2 distributor in Penang may stock them, which could be sent quickly and economically. I bought mine with the Concept2 as an extra.

Is it the HRM1G model? There seem to be a lot of this model on eBay for about 650 Baht but coming from China I would be concerned that they are counterfeit. 

[tropo]

33 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Is it the HRM1G model? There seem to be a lot of this model on eBay for about 650 Baht but coming from China I would be concerned that they are counterfeit. 

Yeah, those are the ones - and free shipping too. They have ANT+ technology, which the Concept2 uses.

 

Probably all the Garmin stuff is made in China. I wouldn't be concerned.... and it's only 650 baht worth of concern. You can use it with your SkiErg too, when you're old enough LOL.

Edited August 31, 2017 by tropo

[tropo]

6 hours ago, GarryP said:

That is nearly the same as my current rows. I think I average about 2:07 per 500 m. Like you, my first and last 500s are usually, but not always, the fastest. This morning only managed 7,070  with a stroke rate of 29 but I haven't been on the rower since last Thursday. Went to Macau for a long weekend. 

 

I never got around to buying a heart rate monitor. Are they particularly important? I don't compete in anything. Just to keep fit.

I only spotted this on the 2nd read. That's a huge mistake to go out so strong. Your first 5 minutes should be your slowest, and your first 10 minutes your slowest 10-minute split too.... UNLESS you do a 5-minute warmup before your 30-minute row. If I was going for a record, I would do a separate warm up. DON'T forget the importance of warming up. If you don't go out so hard, you'll also end up with a better time because you'll be using your energy systems (fat and glycogen) more efficiently.

[Brad Johnson]

On 8/29/2017 at 9:21 AM, GarryP said:

Have you received your Concept2 SkiErg yet? How are you finding it?

 

Not been particularly active on the rower the past three weeks because I have either not been feeling too well or tied up with other things, namely travel. However, now that all my trips are over I hope to start hitting the rower with the regularity I used to.     

Did you developed any back pain from the use of rowing machines? I have seen people complaining about back issues after regular use of rowers. Just want to know your feedback, since I am also interested in getting one for my home.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Brad Johnson
I had filled my text in the quoted box.

[GarryP]

5 minutes ago, Brad Johnson said:

Did you developed any back pain from the use of rowing machines? I have seen people complaining about back issues after regular use of rowers. Just want to know your feedback, since I am also interested in getting one for my home.

I was suffering with severe back pain which was not continuous but spasmodic in nature. It stopped me in my tracks as I walked and nearly felled me several times. But I still bought the rower in February of this year and haven't had any back problems since. Touched wood O am healed. Hallelujah. 

 

Seriously, it has done wonders for me. But I haven't set the damper setting higher than 5 which is a drag factor of about 125 or 130.

[tropo]

16 minutes ago, GarryP said:

26 minutes ago, Brad Johnson said:

Did you developed any back pain from the use of rowing machines? I have seen people complaining about back issues after regular use of rowers. Just want to know your feedback, since I am also interested in getting one for my home.

I was suffering with severe back pain which was not continuous but spasmodic in nature. It stopped me in my tracks as I walked and nearly felled me several times. But I still bought the rower in February of this year and haven't had any back problems since. Touched wood O am healed. Hallelujah. 

 

Seriously, it has done wonders for me. But I haven't set the damper setting higher than 5 which is a drag factor of about 125 or 130.

You've been quite fortunate because it's undeniable that the rowing machine can cause back trouble. I would not recommend it to anyone with a back problem unless they try it out first. There are many different types of back problems that are affected differently by different movements.

 

Rowing has you pulling with force with the spine 90 degrees to the load. It's working mainly in a supportive role, with a slight flexion and extension going on when you row. Rowing technique can of course influence greatly the way the back works throughout the movement and could quite easily make a back problem worse. In your case, it has strengthened your back, which is great. I'm in the same boat as you.

[GarryP]

I should also add that my shoulder impingement problems also seem to be a thing of the past. I am not absolutely sure that rowing was the cure as it was slowly improving with a couple of stretches I did, but it certainly seemed to get better much quicker than I expected once I started rowing.

[TaveewatLim]

Just try online rowing with rowpro.I try old version (3.016) because this is the last version that can run on windows XP. My laptop is very old (1st gen of Samsung netbook) but it work fine.

Problem is nobody join my schedual race.I row at 6:00 in local time but GMT time is 23:00.

[tropo]

On 9/12/2017 at 10:36 AM, GarryP said:

I should also add that my shoulder impingement problems also seem to be a thing of the past. I am not absolutely sure that rowing was the cure as it was slowly improving with a couple of stretches I did, but it certainly seemed to get better much quicker than I expected once I started rowing.

Injuries can heal more quickly if you keep blood circulating in the area while it's healing. Perhaps rowing doesn't hurt your shoulder, but it certainly gets the blood flowing. I don't agree with stretching an injury though - I'd never do that.

[GarryP]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

Injuries can heal more quickly if you keep blood circulating in the area while it's healing. Perhaps rowing doesn't hurt your shoulder, but it certainly gets the blood flowing. I don't agree with stretching an injury though - I'd never do that.

The stretches were recommended by a number of physiotherapists. Specially for shoulder impingement.

[tropo]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

The stretches were recommended by a number of physiotherapists. Specially for shoulder impingement.

 I know the whole world loves to stretch, so I'm not surprised some physiotherapists recommended it. I'm generally against stretching, but a firm believer in very thorough warms ups. All I've ever achieved from stretching shoulders in the past was making the injury worse. Finding the exercises that work best for you is the trick, and discard exercises that don't feel safe.

 

I noticed on some row data you presented before that you go out really hard when you row. I would recommend you pay less attention to your final score and more attention to warming up by rowing slowly for at least 5 minutes before you hit it hard. If you want to try to record a fast score, you could do a 5-10 minute easy row, rest for 5 minutes, then hit it hard for the performance row.

[GarryP]

We after using my new Garmin heart rate monitor for about four times, it is no longer working. Bought off ebay for about 650 Baht from China. So now I need a replacement. Any suggestions, especially whether I can get one in Thailand.  The Polar H7 Heart Rate Sensor looks interesting but no idea whether available in Thailand. 

 

Taveewat, what do you use?

Edited September 25, 2017 by GarryP

[tropo]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

We after using my new Garmin heart rate monitor for about four times, it is no longer working. Bought off ebay for about 650 Baht from China. So now I need a replacement. Any suggestions, especially whether I can get one in Thailand.  The Polar H7 Heart Rate Sensor looks interesting but no idea whether available in Thailand. 

 

Taveewat, what do you use?

I have 2 and they have never played up. Did you check the battery and contacts?

[TaveewatLim]

4 hours ago, tropo said:

I have 2 and they have never played up. Did you check the battery and contacts?

My rower use PM3 and it can use only old school style 5Khz polar HR mornitor.

I used to buy cheap chinese HR  from ebay but it not work well, at last I end up with authentic polar H1 and I've never found any problem.

 

[GarryP]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

I have 2 and they have never played up. Did you check the battery and contacts?

I'll mess around with it a bit more. I did notice that  the o-ring/seal was missing when I received it. I am worried sweat will get in and cause trouble. Haven't been able to find a replacement seal yet.  

[tropo]

4 hours ago, GarryP said:

I'll mess around with it a bit more. I did notice that  the o-ring/seal was missing when I received it. I am worried sweat will get in and cause trouble. Haven't been able to find a replacement seal yet.  

That probably explains why it worked only 4 times. They are designed to be used in water for swimming. Is it too late to send it back and get your money back?

[GarryP]

52 minutes ago, tropo said:

That probably explains why it worked only 4 times. They are designed to be used in water for swimming. Is it too late to send it back and get your money back?

The seller specifically mentioned that they don't accept returns. Any way it was really cheap so not worth worrying about. I will get another. but from a different supplier. Hopefully, locally sourced. 

[Beck1976]

Loving my rower, and am considering getting a Skierg as well. I will need to use the free-stand foot plate, but is that fixed-in-place, or can it be somehow folded up when in storage?

[tropo]

15 minutes ago, Beck1976 said:

Loving my rower, and am considering getting a Skierg as well. I will need to use the free-stand foot plate, but is that fixed-in-place, or can it be somehow folded up when in storage?

The Skierg is the best investment I've ever made. It's easier on my body (back & knees) which allows me to push much harder without any risk of injury. Whereas I don't like pushing the rower over about 80%, I can Skierg at 100% if I wish. It's also great to have them side-by-side and work both for a more complete cardio session. It's easier to do longer sessions if you have 2 machines to use as you don't get so bored as you do on just one. For example, today I rowed for 30 minutes and then Skierg'd for 15 minutes. Other times I might alternate 10 minutes on each for 40 minutes... in which case I work at a higher intensity.

 

The footplate is attached - it doesn't fold up. If you're bolting it to a wall, you'll have 4 bolts at the top and 2 at the bottom. You can save yourself quite a bit if you don't buy the footplate. It is very stable with the footplate though. I notice no movement whatsoever.

 

I sometimes wonder how many Skiergs there are in Thailand. Skiing is not something people who live in tropical climates normally do. To be honest, I didn't take any notice of Skiergs until Dark Horse Rowing made a Skierg technique video, but they've been around for about 5 years already.