Wife Is Owner Of The House, Area Is Owned By Aunt -> Blackmail

[steelepulse]

Can you not just buy some land close by that has a chanote and build a small house for the Mrs and her mum? Then walk away from this headache and let the Aunt pay for any upkeep, maintenance etc. Make the Mrs. look good by offering the house as a "gift" on the understanding that there will not be a single baht more coming, not even the 1000 a month she now gets.

[Mario2008]

The wife is not the owner of the land, that might mean she leases the land. But any lease longer then 30 years must be registered at the land office. I don't think your wife did that, thus there is no lease and the house was build illegally on the property of the aunt.

Get a lawyer to look at the case and then decide what to do.

[vongduern2011]

The process of land distribution takes years, the allocation is done by the village headman.

Wife and mum weren't there for quite a while, not just one day as you seem to think.

Almost everyone living in Bangkok came from a small village, how long before they lose local residency?

I don't know, but mum and wife appear to have been gone for that long.

That's interesting. But right, as I stated before. Mom, Dad and my wife have been gone for some years to Chonburi area since dad had a small business there before he died. That is also where the money came from for university. Then papa died, mom had no idea of business, business went down and the family went back to the land of their ancestors (sound a little bit over the top but that is practically the way it went). So the area we have been talking about has been the land where they used to live for most time of their life but this break of some years. And of course where their ancestors lived. Nevertheless it seems pretty normal for me that a family sometimes has to relocate for a while - without losing their origin.

Another fairly common alternative is that aunt, mum and wife are all the best of friends and have got concocted this story to scam some money out of you.

Unlikely since I have not been asked for money at all.

How accurate is this scenario

Village girl goes to Bk to 'get degree', comes back to village with no degree but much older foreigner husband.

I am 3 years older. Seems to be a normal age difference for every country in the world.

Edited May 25, 2012 by vongduern2011

[vongduern2011]

Pay a little and go to see a local lawyer, and take all of the paperwork with you as well as another farang who understands Thai. Surely that's the only way that this is going to be sorted out satisfactorily, despite the excellent help of the posters above, especially TommoPhysicist who seems to be most knowledgeable on the subject.

Good idea but I am in Europe. No way I can go to Thailand at the moment and take care of this matter on location. Besides I think a farang being "visibly" involved makes prices rise etc. And as a farang I am not the owner of the house or area anyway. The lawyer might be a good idea though.

Can you not just buy some land close by that has a chanote and build a small house for the Mrs and her mum? Then walk away from this headache and let the Aunt pay for any upkeep, maintenance etc. Make the Mrs. look good by offering the house as a "gift" on the understanding that there will not be a single baht more coming, not even the 1000 a month she now gets.

Thanks Steelepulse. I wish I could. But at the moment I don't have the means to buy land and build a house. As I said before I am not poor and not rich. Just a normal guy. This is - and I guess we all have experienced that - something that cannot be understood by Thai people.

The wife is not the owner of the land, that might mean she leases the land. But any lease longer then 30 years must be registered at the land office. I don't think your wife did that, thus there is no lease and the house was build illegally on the property of the aunt.

Get a lawyer to look at the case and then decide what to do.

Possible. I can neither confirm nor deny that. But I wonder why it is possible to build a house without the proper permission from the government. I mean when building a house everybody can see that. It is a big thing with "local politicians ;-)" coming, the pujai baan coming of course and so on. When verifying a case doesn't the land office (or whatever office in charge) check the chanot and the name of the person to be stated in the house book in order to be owner? I know that by giving money to the right persons you can get everything in Thailand. Though I doubt that this happened, in either way there must be some kind of official government permission to build that house under that facts.

But the idea of a lease is interesting. This is the kind of information I was looking for. As I understand the land cannot be sold by anyone. But a lease would not contradict that. Maybe this can be done from now on. How high can a lease be for 70 square metres of area in a rural area of Isaan?

Looks like in the end it is all about this:

Getting a lawyer and trying to sort this out.

Or what I like better: talking with the pujai baan and let him see that an aunt making this trouble harms her own kin only to get some quick money and having the pujai baan relax the situation.

And then hoping that in 8 years there will be fair talks about buying the land from the aunt in order to get some security in this matter.

[Khun Jean]

Forget about lawyers, because most of them actually don't know anything anyway, and only charge money for what is more a case of keeping emotions calm.

The village headman is the place to go, he is the 'lawyer, judge' in one person. That is the way it works in villages.

If the house is in your wifes/mothers name then there is nothing to fear about.

The aunt has a financial problem and that is why the sudden demands.

Nobody has to do anything and it will go away slowly. Let the aunt make a fuss, she will be the 'yai dum' person for wanting to kick out her own kin. The daughter building a house for her mother, that is THE thing daughters want to do, old or young the obligation to take care of parents is the most important, very 'jai dee'!

A village headman will understand that very good and will 'decide' in favor of your wife and mom.

In short, nothing to worry about, just nudging the wife in that direction will be sufficient.

The absolute worst thing that can happen is that rent has to be paid to the aunt. Offer 5000 baht a year.

[PattayaParent]

The wife is not the owner of the land, that might mean she leases the land. But any lease longer then 30 years must be registered at the land office. I don't think your wife did that, thus there is no lease and the house was build illegally on the property of the aunt.

Get a lawyer to look at the case and then decide what to do.

But the aunt has not objected to the building of the house, she was aware that it was being built and has since lived in it without objection to it being on her land.

By doing so so she has given approval for the house to be built on her land, lease or no lease.

[meatboy]

by god you guys in the know got some patience the op seems he has been led up the garden path and into next door as well,it has been spelled out to him walk away and kiss goodby to his investment,i am sure this is what he thought he was getting.if he hasnt got the funds for another project[for the wife]he definatly wont be able to afford a lawyer this is just another mild case of tit learning the hard way.

[vongduern2011]

@meatboy:

I am not sure if I understand your idioms correctly since I am not a native English speaker.

But again ... as I said before my personal financial investment in this house is very small. So would by my financial loss.

Mistakes have been made here and of course everybody should learn from them.

But here in this forum I am not looking for people telling me that mistakes have been made. This is not news.

I am looking for practical proposals on how to solve this problem.

So thank you for your post, Khun Jean.

[soi41]

What a mess! No doubt, pujai baan is the solution for a minor matter like this. As the chanote is frozen for another 8 years, you cannot not make a long lease, but only 3 years at a time, renewable for another 3+2 years. Make the pujai baan call a meeting with the involved parties, mom,aunt,wife (you stay as far away as possible). Mom suggests the above solution with a 3 year rent of 10.000 (less than 300/month) and make sure she has all the money in her pocket/purse. Auntie, being strapped for cash, will sign anything to get her hands on all the money in front of her. As auntie is family, mom is going to be jaidee and offer full rent even if the last period is only 2 years. Make sure that all the papersigning & payment takes place at the pujai baans place in front of the witnesses, that are needed for the paperwork anyway. That way everyone in the village will know, what has taken place, and auntie can not tell tales about you cheating her. That should buy you peace for the next 8 years . After that post again!

[meatboy]

@meatboy:

I am not sure if I understand your idioms correctly since I am not a native English speaker.

But again ... as I said before my personal financial investment in this house is very small. So would by my financial loss.

Mistakes have been made here and of course everybody should learn from them.

But here in this forum I am not looking for people telling me that mistakes have been made. This is not news.

I am looking for practical proposals on how to solve this problem.

So thank you for your post, Khun Jean.

sorry that you dont understand what i am telling you,30years i have heard stories like yours which is not worth bothering about and loosing sleep over.once you enter into the world of farang itus with a thai you become a milking bank for[some]not all of your exstending family,most of us have gone through it sometime,so like i said it is part of the learning thai way you have entered into,we have to tell you the mistakes that have been made so listen to what advice you are given you seem to be looking for a happy ending i dont think there is one unless you have the funds money talks in los how long have you been coming to los? good luck

[TommoPhysicist]

Off Topic

How did a university student in BK earn enough money to build a house?

It must have cost between 200k and 500k.

[meatboy]

no 1 rule in thailand any money you,invest,lend,part with,if you cant afford to kiss goodby to it dont do it.i am trying to be helpfull for future exploits.

[Stjohnm]

by god you guys in the know got some patience the op seems he has been led up the garden path and into next door as well,it has been spelled out to him walk away and kiss goodby to his investment,i am sure this is what he thought he was getting.if he hasnt got the funds for another project[for the wife]he definatly wont be able to afford a lawyer this is just another mild case of tit learning the hard way.

I was thinking the same

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[remobb]

I have a suggestion for you. Not sure if it's good or not. You should involve the village head / leader in this as he has a lot of local power. Make an agreement with the aunt to pay her 1,000baht a month or whatever you feel happy with, on the condition that your wife's mother and anyone else living in the house can stay there as long as she owns or has the right to the land. Make sure this is discussed in front of and with the village head, invite the village elders along too. Get her to sign or make an agreement in front of these people. She will not be able to retract that later for sure. Also if possible include the local chief monk too. If she refuses then tell her she is getting nothing and you are going to demolish the home and your wife's mother will go to live with you. It's a threat only and in my experience is normally enough to stop any more of this.

Hope it works. Fight fire with fire.

[Khun Jean]

I have a suggestion for you. Not sure if it's good or not. You should involve the village head / leader in this as he has a lot of local power. Make an agreement with the aunt to pay her 1,000baht a month or whatever you feel happy with, on the condition that your wife's mother and anyone else living in the house can stay there as long as she owns or has the right to the land. Make sure this is discussed in front of and with the village head, invite the village elders along too. Get her to sign or make an agreement in front of these people. She will not be able to retract that later for sure. Also if possible include the local chief monk too. If she refuses then tell her she is getting nothing and you are going to demolish the home and your wife's mother will go to live with you. It's a threat only and in my experience is normally enough to stop any more of this.

Hope it works. Fight fire with fire.

Fight fire with fire is not the right way to do it. The fire will only get bigger.

Let it sizzle out is the better strategy.

If someone wants money and the other has it, who will win in the end?

The house is built, permission was given, house book is registered, in short, only blue skies.

The one with a problem is the aunt, let the problem not be anyone elses by fueling it.

[Pops]

quote: (My wife told me that she and her mother have been in Bangkok. But the chanot / contract had to be signed immediately if they wanted to secure the area. The only person of the family in the village (who they trusted at that time) was the aunt. So she signed but she never paid. My wife paid. Dumb move. But my wife told me they had to do it immediately or somebody else would have taken the land. Of course I cannot verify this story.)

This story your wife is telling sounds bogus.

1. Government issued land is mostly granted to the people either living on the land or farming on specific piece of land, so if your wife's mother thought she was entitled to the land, means she was either living on that piece of land, or was farming on it.

2. Government issued land does not have to be paid for, so what did your wife pay for then ??

Sounds like a family scam to me !

[khunPer]

The wife is not the owner of the land, that might mean she leases the land. But any lease longer then 30 years must be registered at the land office. I don't think your wife did that, thus there is no lease and the house was build illegally on the property of the aunt.

Get a lawyer to look at the case and then decide what to do.

Any lease longer than 3 (three) years must be registered at the land office (to be binding and legal). Maximum lease period registered at land office cannot exceed 30 years.

(typo)

Edited May 27, 2012 by khunPer

[Derifo]

If the money means little to you, why not buy mother a house on unrestricted land. Then yoi won't be stealing from the locals and forcing them out of the ater.

Now this aunt suddenly wants to have some money and demands this from my wife or .. otherwise threatens to call the police, take away the house or whatever.

You can clearly see that she ( they ) need money from you.

[pgangell]

Looks like you need a bit of support here. Our experience is not identical but has the same root cause - envy and greed.

My wife's grandfather, for one reason or another, 'bequeathed' the family land to my wife's auntie to look after, even though she was not the oldest but was the most favoured by him. This land had several houses on it each being occupied by daughters of the grandfather, one of which was my mother-in-law who in fact was the oldest. My mother and father-in-law, unlike your situation, had built and lived in the house since their marriage - about 40 years. The house was a typical village house and, when I came along, we made some improvements to make it more comfortable.

While my in-laws had a family book, which of course included my wife, they had no sha noot for the land on which their house stood. So the Auntie decided that she wanted a bit of the action and told my mother-in-law to give her some money (bt30,000 from memory) or leave the property. She really had no grounds for either demand and my wife wanted to take it to the Amphur. She would have won the case hands down but it would have caused untold animosity. I ended up suggesting that, for the sake of maintaining peace, it would be best to pay the money but get the land subdivided and put into her name. This happened and, while the auntie still plays no speaking games with our family, at least she has no further claim to the land or house.

I guess what I'm suggesting is the same as a previous post. Look for a compromise that will guarantee the security of your wife's family even though it may cost you some money because, ultimately, that's what they are after.

[vongduern2011]

Thank you guys for your constructive feedback.

So, this is the way it will be done.

No lawyers but using the old village social structures and dynamic instead.

My wife said that she will gather a couple of witnesses that are known and respected in the village.

Maybe I should propose to her that not all witnesses should be age 70 or up. You never know. ;-)

Let's see.