Maitreya - What Do You Think?

[GrahamR]

Greetings

My sister in law is quite interested in this 'Buddha'

To me it seem to be something else to obscure Buddha's teaching.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya

What have other people heard, what are your views please?

With metta Graham

[huli]

I believe I heard on this forum from a major contributor, that it is recorded once in the sutras where Buddha himself predicted the coming of this next future Buddha in 5000 years. The quotation is considered suspect by many, since Buddha repeated important teachings over and over, and he was not a prophet who predicted historical events. The story may have been added by someone in antiquity.

I agree with your take on the significance of Maitreya..

Various people have claimed to be Maitreya, or have been proclaimed by others to be Maitreya. For a good while there, many of the Theosophical folks considered Krishnamurti to be Maitreya. He never claimed such a thing, however.

[camerata]

As far as Theravada Buddhism goes, the coming of Metteya (Maitreya is the Sanskrit spelling), the Buddha-to-be, has been emphasized mostly in non-canonical texts aimed mainly at the common people. The idea is that if you do good and make enough merit you will be reborn in the time of the next Buddha and have the direct benefit of his teachings. However, salvation via Metteya seemed to have lost its appeal in the 20th century, possibly as a result of King Mongkut's reforms.

EDIT// In the last sentence i was referring specifically to Thailand.

[GrahamR]

As far as Theravada Buddhism goes, the coming of Metteya (Maitreya is the Sanskrit spelling), the Buddha-to-be, has been emphasized mostly in non-canonical texts aimed mainly at the common people. The idea is that if you do good and make enough merit you will be reborn in the time of the next Buddha and have the direct benefit of his teachings. However, salvation via Metteya seemed to have lost its appeal in the 20th century, possibly as a result of King Mongkut's reforms.

To me the obsession with merit making is another form of attachment and a problem in itself.

Graham

[huli]

As far as Theravada Buddhism goes, the coming of Metteya (Maitreya is the Sanskrit spelling), the Buddha-to-be, has been emphasized mostly in non-canonical texts aimed mainly at the common people. The idea is that if you do good and make enough merit you will be reborn in the time of the next Buddha and have the direct benefit of his teachings. However, salvation via Metteya seemed to have lost its appeal in the 20th century, possibly as a result of King Mongkut's reforms.

To me the obsession with merit making is another form of attachment and a problem in itself.

Graham

Lay Buddhists are supposed to have boundless friendliness, and to practice generosity, at a minimum. Institutionalizing the practice of merit-making by giving alms or money to the temple etc, is a good way to keep the lay people practicing generosity. They are just obsessed with being generous, which is a good thing.

[NoorE]

If I may add to the conversation:

If you accept the Buddha's prediction of Maitreya's appearance in 5,000 years, you also have to include the rest of the story. I am copying this from maitreya . org / english / PBuddhism . htm (remove spaces) and would encourage you to go there to study further:

“If, Ananda, women had not retired from the household life to the houseless one, under the doctrine and discipline announced by the Tathagata, Dharma Ananda would long endure; a thousand years would the good Dharma abide. But since, Ananda, women have now retired from the household life to the houseless one, under the doctrine and the discipline announced by the Tathagata, not long Ananda, will Dharma endure; but five hundred years Ananda, until the Dharma abide” (Vinya Pitaka II. 253 ff).

Buddha had previously promised that the Dharma would last for 5,000 years, which if broken down is really five periods of one thousand years, each period representing one of the five disappearances. After the fifth period, that is five thousand years, the Dharma would disappear and the true message of Buddha would be lost.

However, Buddha contests that because He has allowed women to participate in the fullness of Buddhist life, He would halve the time until the Dharma's expiration from five periods of one-thousand years (5,000 years), to five periods of five-hundred years (2,500 years).

According to Buddha, and explanation above, the Dharma would disappear 2,500 years after His Dispensation began (1957 A.D.), and shortly after the five disappearances, the Maitreya would come.

This interpretation of Scripture is supported by a number of ancient Chinese's Buddhist commentaries, here is one such example:

"The monks and stream attainers (followers) will be strong in their union with Dharma for 500 years after the Blessed One's Parinirvana. In the second 500 years they will be strong in meditation; in the third period of 500 years they will be strong in erudition. In the fourth 500 years period they will only be occupied with gift giving. The final or fifth period of 500 years will see only fighting and reproving among the monks and followers. The pure Dharma will then become invisible (disappear)" (Abhidharmakosha, 4.12c. III. p. 41).

Even if you do not accept that Buddha predicted the coming of Maitreya, you can consider that another Prophet or teacher must come, as Buddha's teachings have not brought unity to humanity even after 2,500 years, so His could not have been the final. You also have to ask yourself, why so many religions, if there is only one Truth? Are the others all just wrong? And in all the other religions of the world, they are also expecting a Prophet (return of Christ, Kalki Avatar, Mahdi, He Whom God Shall Make Manifest, Blue Kachina/Pahana/True White Brother from the East, etc.) and the prophecies of their coming are also being fulfilled at this time.

So I indeed submit to you that the coming of Maitreya is not meant to obscure or reduce Buddha's teaching, but indeed to glorify it, and bring even greater Truth that even was not revealed to Buddha.

In fact I submit to you that Maitreya is already here. He has fulfilled Prophecies from all world religions and cultures, and brought a teaching that unifies all the religions of the world and for the first time shows clearly how all are from the same, One God, each sent as part of an overall Plan which is now coming to fruition. Maitreya's teaching also unifies the West and the East, science and spirit, and shows how the two are not contradictory but complementary.

You are correct that many have claimed to be Maitreya - that is why it is important to be diligent and study the claims of each to see which are based on falsehood (connect you to themselves, no prophecies fulfilled, illogical teachings, etc.) and which are based on truth. If you reject all claimants, you will not fall for the false prophets, but you may also miss the True One!

Therefore, do not take my word for it - I challenge you to study Maitreya's literature, prophecies fulfilled, etc. and prove it to yourself that he is indeed the True Maitreya, the Prophet of God: maitreya . org (remove spaces)

Edited May 27, 2012 by NoorE

[huli]

You are being disingenuous by not further stating that you are Bahai and your Maitreya is Baha'u'llah.

It is certainly a familiar idea that all religions are one, but Bahai has been around a long time and none of the other religious traditions have given up to join Bahai instead. So, Bahai is really just another religion with their own prophet, even tho they claim include the other religions, to Buddhism in this case.

Doesn't Bahai have their own forum somewhere?

Edited May 29, 2012 by camerata
Unnecessary quote deleted.

[NoorE]

You are being disingenuous by not further stating that you are Bahai and your Maitreya is Baha'u'llah.

It is certainly a familiar idea that all religions are one, but Bahai has been around a long time and none of the other religious traditions have given up to join Bahai instead. So, Bahai is really just another religion with their own prophet, even tho they claim include the other religions, to Buddhism in this case.

Doesn't Bahai have their own forum somewhere?

We are not Baha'i. Baha'i is a part of our teachings, but even they have only 1/7 of the whole truth. What Maitreya brings is even greater than Bab/Baha'u'llah's message. Also, Maitreya's teaching is not that all religions are the same, but that each was sent to emphasize a specific message, one part of the whole truth.

The followers of every religion have claimed that theirs is the last, and refused to accept anything after it (even if their Prophet never said such a thing). But none of the religions so far (including Buddhism and Baha'i) have brought what they aspire to or claim they will bring - peace on earth, unification, a teaching that all can find a place in and reach Salvation through, etc. This can only be understood by seeing that God already prophesied (most clearly in Revelation in the Bible, but it can be found in other places as well) that there would be many teachings sent, and only when the Seventh Angel comes will the mystery of God be finished and the full truth be revealed, which unifies all (everyone can find their place within it, as all are part of it).

So I ask you to study the teachings sincerely, and know what Maitreya teaches, before jumping to conclusions. It is a good practice to follow no matter what you are discussing.

[fabianfred]

We are not Baha'i. Baha'i is a part of our teachings, but even they have only 1/7 of the whole truth. What Maitreya brings is even greater than Bab/Baha'u'llah's message. Also, Maitreya's teaching is not that all religions are the same, but that each was sent to emphasize a specific message, one part of the whole truth.

The followers of every religion have claimed that theirs is the last, and refused to accept anything after it (even if their Prophet never said such a thing). But none of the religions so far (including Buddhism and Baha'i) have brought what they aspire to or claim they will bring - peace on earth, unification, a teaching that all can find a place in and reach Salvation through, etc. This can only be understood by seeing that God already prophesied (most clearly in Revelation in the Bible, but it can be found in other places as well) that there would be many teachings sent, and only when the Seventh Angel comes will the mystery of God be finished and the full truth be revealed, which unifies all (everyone can find their place within it, as all are part of it).

If we are going to talk about Buddhism and the coming of Meitreya...then forget about messengers of God or any such thing. The Buddha taught nothing about God because his existence is illogical, and even if he were to exist he would be irrelevant in our task to reach the ultimate goal in life.....Nibbana and the escape from suffering. Anyone who talks about god and the bible is not Buddhist and therefore not qualified to say that the Buddhas did this or that or said this or that since they have their own agenda.

Buddhas do not come to reveal all truths but just the ones necessary for practice to escape suffering. They reaveal the whole of such necessary knowledge, not only a part. Anyone saying that there were later revealings of secret teachings, or further turnings of the wheel of dhamma are deluded and go against the Buddhas own teachings.

The Buddhas do not try or expect to bring peace on earth, there are too many ignorant beings for that to happen, so they just try to help as many beings as are prepared to listen, knowing that this is only a small percentage.

Meitreya is the name of the next Buddha to come. He will be the fifth Buddha in this present Aeon and the last, until future aeons.

The present Buddha, Gotama, predicted that his dhamma would last for about five thousdand years. Now we are just over half-way at 2,600 years and we can already see the deteriation in following by both lay and clergy.

The Buddha said that his dhamma would last as long as there was no false dhamma. The false dhamma finds favour by the lazy lay followers and monks who cannot be bothered with the real practice.

There was never any prediction that the next Buddha, Meitreya would arrive in 5,000 years. This is a misunderstanding. Meitrya is presently waiting in the Tushita heaven, as all Boddhisattas do, before the time is right to come and take their final rebirth.

It is impossible for two Buddhas to come at the same time, and since the Buddha Gotama's time is not yet over, another cannot come yet.

Before deciding if the time is correct to come down and take rebirth they have to consider two things. One: they can only take rebirth when the human lifespan is decreasing...as it is presently. Remember that in nature all things go in cycles and the lifespan of humans is one such cycle, from a very short lifespan of ten years to a very long lifespan of more than 100,000 years. Two: Buddhas only appear when the lifespan is betwee the limits of 100,000 years and 100 years. SO we are now outside those limits. We must wait for the cycle to fall to the lowest point of ten years and then reach the highest point and start to fall again.

It is predicted that the Buddha Meitreya will come when the human lifespan has fallen to 80,000 years.

His dhamma will last for only 270,000 years which is just three lifetimes, compared to the present 5,000 years of 100 year lifespans so therefore 50 lifetimes. Buddha Gotasma came when the human lifespan was just a tad over 100 years.

Remeber that a lidespan is taken on average throughout the world, and means dying of old age, not from sickness or other unatural cause.

We can therefore see that it will be many millions of years before the time will be right for Meitreya to arrive.

Of the three earlier Buddhas in this aeon, one came when the human lifespan was 60,000 years, another when it was 40,000 years, and another at 20,000 years.

Edited May 28, 2012 by fabianfred

[orchis]

We are not Baha'i. Baha'i is a part of our teachings, but even they have only 1/7 of the whole truth. What Maitreya brings is even greater than Bab/Baha'u'llah's message. Also, Maitreya's teaching is not that all religions are the same, but that each was sent to emphasize a specific message, one part of the whole truth.

When you speak of 'we' , who do you mean?

[camerata]

From what I've read, the Buddha said in the Vinaya, "this holy life will not last long, the true Dhamma will last only 500 years." Nowhere in the Vinaya or the suttas did he say it would last 5,000 years, or for a number of discrete periods. As far as Theravada and Pali texts are concerned, the 5,000-years prediction was a later revision by Buddhghosa that appears in a number of non-canonical texts such as the Anagatavamsa Desana.

The coming of Metteyya is predicted in the Cakkavatti Sutta, which also says nothing about 5,000 years. In fact the coming of the dark age is depicted as a result of a king in the future not giving alms to the needy. The world falls into chaos and then gradually everyone regains their senses and becomes righteous again. A righteous king - sounding suspiciously like King Ashoka - appears, and at the same time the next Buddha:

"And in the time of the people with eighty thousand-year life-span,

there will arise in the world a Blessed Lord,

an Arahant fully-enlightened Buddha named Metteyya,

endowed with wisdom and conduct,

a Well-Farer, Knower of the worlds,

an incomparable Trainer of men to be tamed,

Teacher of gods and humans,

enlightened and blessed,

just as I am now."

There is no mention anywhere in the Pali Canon of Metteyya having additional rebirths and appearing in the human realm to help people.

[camerata]

I'd like to remind everyone of one of the guidelines for the Buddhism Forum: "Proselytising is likewise unwelcome. This includes repeatedly posting dogma about any subject matter..."

Let's keep the discussion relevant to Maitreya as depicted in Buddhist texts.

Thanks.

[NoorE]

When you speak of 'we' , who do you mean?

"We" being those who follow the teachings of the Maitreya I spoke of above (the Mission of Maitreya, Eternal Divine Path).

The Buddha said that his dhamma would last as long as there was no false dhamma...

"Search for Buddhism in the Internet. How many different ideas are there? How many different explanations are given? Some of them say, “There is no Soul.” In one class of Buddhism they say, “There is no Soul,” and in another class of Buddhism they say, “There is a Soul.”

In one branch of Buddhism they say, “There is no God.” In another branch they say, “There is a God.” So which one is really Buddhism? Did Buddha really say that? Is this what Buddha taught? Which one is his?

We can again see that we have to go back to the prophecies fulfilled. Buddhism is no longer what Buddha taught. Therefore, the coming of the Maitreya is eminent and should be now, because Buddha’s teaching is no longer what Buddha brought to humanity.

It is just like Christianity, which one is Christianity? Is it the Baptists, or the Protestants, or how many branches? There are 3,000 branches of Christianity. Which one is what Christ taught?

It is like this in all religions. Which one is Islam? Is it Shi’ah? Is it Sunni? Is it the Seven Immamies? Again, you can see that it has been split to pieces, and each of them has their own idea of what God’s Truth is." - Maitreya

I'd like to remind everyone of one of the guidelines for the Buddhism Forum: "Proselytising is likewise unwelcome. This includes repeatedly posting dogma about any subject matter..."

I apologize if it seems like I am proselytizing. The OP asked for others' views on Maitreya, so I give what I believe to be the correct view. What you apparently consider to be 'dogma' I consider to be truth. It seems the Buddhist texts are fairly unclear and conflicting as to the exact nature, time of appearance, etc. of Maitreya. There is at least one interpretation that leads to now being the correct time to expect Him. Regardless of prophecies, I ask you to study Maitreya's teachings for yourself and see if what He teaches is not complementary and One with Buddha's teachings, and indeed expands even further to also understand the truth behind all other religions and teachings.

I have said what needs to be said, so this is my last post. The Message is given and you are Called to come see what has been planned from the beginning, and how indeed there is only One God, all religions are from Him, and each was given only a part of the truth. Only now is the full truth understood by understanding all of them, as is revealed through Maitreya. If you would like to know more, search "Mission of Maitreya" and study the website. May God Guide you as He Wills.

Edited May 28, 2012 by NoorE

[fabianfred]

Regardless of prophecies, I ask you to study Maitreya's teachings for yourself and see if what He teaches is not complementary and One with Buddha's teachings,

and how indeed there is only One God, all religions are from Him, and each was given only a part of the truth. Only now is the full truth understood by understanding all of them, as is revealed through Maitreya.

Maitreya's teachings...???..... what teachings? Maitreya does not yet exist, so how can he have any teachings. Maitreya is the name of the FUTURE Buddha. Right now this being is resting in Tushita heaven. He will come and take final rebirth, as a Prince, like all Buddhas, and then eventually become the Buddha Meitreya.

Upon his deathbed before attaining to Parinibbana the Buddha Gotama said that he had held nothing back, there was no need for a replacement as head of his religion since he had taught everthing necessary for reaching Nibbana in his Dhamma. No secret teachings, no special revealings, we had it all right then. If we choose to think we are better than him and look for hidden meanings and better (our own ego driven) interpretations, we are deluded.

I am afraid that you are a member of a cult. One with Christian leanings, trying to find some relevance to Buddhism, and twisting any scriptures you find from any religion to suit your own agenda.

Edited May 28, 2012 by fabianfred

[camerata]

So which one is really Buddhism? Did Buddha really say that? Is this what Buddha taught? Which one is his?

We can again see that we have to go back to the prophecies fulfilled. Buddhism is no longer what Buddha taught.

What you fail to acknowledge is that despite the many additional texts and treatises that people have added to Buddhism over the centuries, we still have the Buddha's basic teachings (the Vinaya and suttas) in Pali, Chinese and Tibetan.

You say that because of the confusion of views we have to go back to the prophecies fulfilled, yet the prediction made by the Buddha in the suttas that Maitreya will come "in the time of the people with eighty thousand-year life-span" is clearly not yet fulfilled.

[GrahamR]

Dear all,

The problem I have personally is: why do merit to be reborn in 2500 years, why not practice and escape from the cycle?

Secondly I find the concept of merit giving is a form of attachment itself. Merit giving is done, not to do good, but to again merit points to come back when Dharma is forgotten..

Why wait for Dharma to be forgotten and come back, why not just practice and move towards enlightenment?

Graham

[weary]

The way I see it: Giving with a good and pure intention, using whatever amount of wisdom one has at one's disposal, is never wrong. Merit giving or otherwise. If the intention is wrong, then that is another matter. It can still create some positive results, but you probably miss out on the personal development aspect that is important to what the Buddha (seems to have) taught.

It goes hand in hand with the meditation and mindfulness practice and other moral actions. When you give without expecting something in return... there is a chance others see it, are impressed and want to emulate, which causes a positive 'pay it forward'-effect. So it may result in less clinging for you and others. And provided the monastic centre at which you do your merit making is a sound one, you help its monastics in their practice, so that they may help yet others with theirs.

As for Maitreya or not, I am not really interested. My current belief - subject to revision - is indeed that there is one truth behind all the smoke and mirrors of the mind, and that we can learn something useful from any situation or person (even if it is 'reverse learning' i.e. "Whoa, this guy is deluded/angry/etc. - I better make sure I don't follow his example, thanks to him for teaching me this lesson, now I know I need to watch out for the same tendency in myself). I see no need to start or join a new religion. There are already so many.

I stick to my practice here and now, as it has been good for me so far.

[rockyysdt]

Dear all,

The problem I have personally is: why do merit to be reborn in 2500 years, why not practice and escape from the cycle?

Secondly I find the concept of merit giving is a form of attachment itself. Merit giving is done, not to do good, but to again merit points to come back when Dharma is forgotten..

Why wait for Dharma to be forgotten and come back, why not just practice and move towards enlightenment?

Graham

Not as I understand it Graham.

Some may interpret and execute giving in this way, but my understanding is otherwise.

Part of the process towards enlightenment is to diminish/extinguish the "l", "me".

In the honeyball sutta the Buddha teaches that metta is a direct path to awakening.

The interpretations are that when one gives to diminish anothers suffering"", when one "feels anothers suffering as if it was theirs", then one turns outward to another, thus diminishing their ego or "l".

[camerata]

The problem I have personally is: why do merit to be reborn in 2500 years, why not practice and escape from the cycle?

Although since the 14th century various texts have encouraged Thais to seek rebirth in the time of Maitreya, these days no one seems to be interested. For most Thais the immediate objective is to make enough merit for a fortunate rebirth, and that usually just means a good rebirth in the human realm. This is seen as the easy alternative compared to becoming a monk and seeking nibbana.

[fabianfred]

This is seen as the easy alternative compared to becoming a monk and seeking nibbana.

Another Thai misconception, that only monks can reach Nibbana...............BS.

[GrahamR]

Dear all

I believe Ajahn Chah said that if you want to be with Mateyya Buddha just don't practice and you'll be around long enough to see him.

"Once you look into the true nature of determinations and conditions, pride cannot prevail. Other people's fathers are just like our father, their mothers are just like ours, their children are just like ours. We see the happiness and suffering of other beings as just like ours.

If we see in this way we can come face to face with the future Buddha, it's not so difficult. Everyone is in the same boat. Then the world will be as smooth as a drumskin. If you want to wait around to meet Phra Sri Ariya Metteyya, the future Buddha, then just don't practice... you'll probably be around long enough to see him. But He's not crazy that he'd take people like that for disciples! Most people just doubt. If you no longer doubt about the self, then no matter what people may say about you, you aren't concerned, because your mind has let go, it is at peace. Conditions become subdued. Grasping after the forms of practice... that teacher is bad, that place is no good, this is right, that's wrong... No. There's none of these things. All this kind of thinking is all smoothed over. You come face to face with the future Buddha. Those who only hold up their hands and pray will never get there.

So here is the practice."

http://www.amaravati...article/480/P7/

Graham

Edited May 30, 2012 by GrahamR

[khaowong1]

I think I go along with what Ajahn Chah said. " If we don't at least follow the Buddha's teachings, we are going to be around to get to meet Maitreya." As always happens in this Buddhism forum, someone will bring up God, and then someone else will say that the Buddha said there was no God. Now in our present time, when God is mentioned, we are talking about the "Christian" God. Buddha never met a Christian, they came waaayy after his time. I doubt he ever met any Jews also. I believe he was talking about the Hindu "God", Brahma, and he definitely said that Brahma was not the creator. I may be mistaken but I believe he said that talking about God was counter productive as "God" could not be defined. AND he, the Buddha, wasn't here to talk about God, but to help people rid themselves of their suffering. So, I believe that saying the Buddha didn't believe in "God" is not entirely correct. That's my belief.

[rockyysdt]

As far as Theravada and Pali texts are concerned, the 5,000-years prediction was a later revision by Buddhghosa that appears in a number of non-canonical texts such as the Anagatavamsa Desan

Interestingly Theravada, as we know it today was based on the works, interpretation, and translation by Buddhaghosa.

The reason given for his work was to a achieve re birth into the house of Brahman and then live long enough to be around for Maitreyas coming.

It suggests he already possessed a preconception of what the Buddha taught (re birth from life to life instead of moment to moment). Not a good thing for works which called for an impartial author.

Edited June 11, 2012 by rockyysdt

[camerata]

You need to ask yourself why, if Buddhaghosa did all that you claim, do the Chinese and Tibetan versions of the Canon say pretty much the same thing as the Pali Canon and do not promote a moment-to-moment concept. They are derived from Sanskrit texts, AFAIK. If you have any evidence that he compiled, translated or changed the Pali Canon, let's see it. You can find his biography at http://archive.org/s...age/70/mode/2up

[rockyysdt]

You need to ask yourself why, if Buddhaghosa did all that you claim, do the Chinese and Tibetan versions of the Canon say pretty much the same thing as the Pali Canon and do not promote a moment-to-moment concept. They are derived from Sanskrit texts, AFAIK. If you have any evidence that he compiled, translated or changed the Pali Canon, let's see it. You can find his biography at http://archive.org/s...age/70/mode/2up

It's all theoretical Camerata.

The Tibetans and Chinese had the same problem as everyone else.

That is, the Buddhas teachings weren't written in his time, but passed from generation to generation verbally.

It must have been years years before anyone decided to document them.

A Monk possessing first hand knowledge, was reported to object to a councils decision on agreed written works after arriving late to a meeting.

I understand also, the Mahayanans even lost their Canon and had to rewrite it from scratch.

This explains some unusual material.

It was also reported that Buddhagosa Buddhaghosa collected and burnt the original manuscripts once his work was completed.

Edited June 11, 2012 by rockyysdt