Looking For Dual Citizenship Information

[thenoilif]

Hello again,

I been told conflicting information on Thai regulations regarding dual citizenship and I was hoping someone may be able to clarify a few things for me.

I was born and raised in the US so I have a United States citizenship and passport.

My mother is American but my father is a Thai citizen and was born in Thailand and currently resides here.

I would obviously love to have dual citizenship but I have been told I am unable to get Thai citizenship as they require people to choose a single nationality upon turning 18. I also know a couple of people with similar backgrounds and they have both American and Thai citizenship but I assume they may be grandfathered in.

I am now 30 living and working in Bangkok and don't plan on leaving anytime soon but I am not interested in renouncing my US citizenship.

What options if any do I have for obtaining dual citizenship or is it a dead end cause?

[Mario2008]

You are already a Thai national, because of your father being a Thai national. if one of the parents is Thai upon birth, the child is automatically Thai too.

There is no need to chose when you turn 18. The Thai law states that you CAN choose when you turn 21, not that you must choose. many of our members have dual nationality, both the US and Thaiand allow for this.

Since you where born in the US, you must obtain a birth certificate from the US embassy in the US. With the birth certificate application the Thai government will know that a Thai citizen was born and you can apply for a Thai ID-card, passport etc.

You will need the help from both your parent. Best is to contact the Thai Mististry of Foreign Affairs, consular department. They can explain which docuemnts you need to provide and will apply for your Thai birth certificate with the Thai embassy in Washington for you.

http://www.consular.go.th/

You need to contact the Thai nationality section.

(I presume your parents were/are officially married when you were born)

[wayned]

Minor correction to Mario's post above. You have to get the birth certificate from the "Thai" embassy in the US.

Edited May 29, 2012 by wayned

[lopburi3]

Actually there will be an American birth certificate issued by the state born in and that can be used to obtain a Thai report either from Embassy or using MFA facilities in Thailand from reports I have read. It is easier to do in the US but as here that may not be such an easy option. If using MFA the birth certificate likely will have to be certified and registered with Department of State first but MFA should be able to provide the process steps.

[thenoilif]

Yes, my BC is issued from the state I was born in the US. I actually have a certified original. What do you mean by "Thai report"?

FYI - my parents were never married but my father is listed on the certificate as such. Will this be a problem?

[Mario2008]

Probably not as he is listed on the birth certificate and he is alive and probably willing to confirm that he is your father. Otherwise a DNA test would stop all questioning.

My understanding is that the MFA collects the documents and send everything to the Thai embassy in question, who will issue the Thai birth certificate and send it back to the MFA. There is only a small fee for this service.

[lopburi3]

It will likely require DNA tests. A Thai report of birth is first step in process and normally this is done at Thai Embassy of the country born by parents. Is your mother here or in US? This may also be an issue. You need to talk with MFA officials on Chiang Watanna Road I believe (in/above passport office as I understand it).

[Mario2008]

Yes, Chang wattana road, nationality section.

I know a person who went this way to get a bith certificate for his daughter. (But in the end didn't continue with it, as he was going to the country in concern anyway. So don't have much details).

There is a little bit more information on the consular department website, but in Thai.

[Arkady]

If you are living in Thailand and have access to the requisite documentation and DNA tests, you should apply for your Thai ID card and passport right away because the legal landscape is totally clear.

As Mario says the Nationality Act effectively provides an option for children with one Thai parent to renounce their Thai nationality between the ages of 20 and 21. Thus, regardless of what some government officials may try to tell you, there is actually no Thai legal impediment to your dual nationality. See Section 14 below.

“Section 14 A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of the father or mother according to the law on nationality of the father or mother, or a person who acquired Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12 bis (2) and (3) is required, if he desires to retain his other nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of 20 years, according to such forms and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

If, after consideration of the said intention, the Minister is of opinion that there is reasonable ground to believe that such person may acquire the nationality of his father, mother, or a foreign nationality, he shall grant permission, except in cases where Thailand is engaged in armed conflict or is in state of war, he may order the dispensation of any renunciation of Thai nationality.”

The wording of the above paragraph is somewhat stilted (in the Thai also) and gives rise, no doubt deliberately, to the impression that the person is expected to renounce Thai nationality, if he desires to retain the other nationality. However, it is very different from the previous version of 9^th February 1992 that it replaced only three weeks later.

“Section 14 A person of Thai nationality who was born of an alien father

and may acquire the nationality of his father according to the law on nationality of his

father, or a peson who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two, is

required to make a declaration of his intention to opt for only one nationality and to notifv his intention to the competent official within one year after his attaining the age of twenty

years. according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial

Regulations. If no notification is made within the said period or time. that person is

deemed to renounce Thai nationality. unless the Minister shall give an order otherwise

for each particular case.”

The short lived earlier version of this section was absolutely unequivocable in prohibiting dual nationality for look krung after the age of 21 and providing for automatic revocation, if they failed to declare that they were retaining only Thai nationality and renouncing their other nationality. It’s a fair guess that the hardliners behind the earlier version stepped on some rather influential toes and were forced to amend the law double quick. Thus Section 14 ended up being so gutted as to be effectively redundant, since those wishing to renounce their Thai nationality may do so anyway after the age of 21.

As far as I know, there is a US Supreme Court ruling from the 80s that explicitly permits dual nationality for US citizens. Nevertheless the US State Department’s official line is for some reason that they advise against dual nationality because of unspecified “complications” it might cause. The fact is that the State Department today actively recruits native speakers of languages other than English and there are consequently now a large number of US diplomats around the world who openly sport dual nationality without being asked to dump the other one.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Arkady

[lopburi3]

Believe what the US courts have ruled is that the naturalization oath does not require loss of foreign citizenship (as that was not clear). Citizenship by birth has not been an issue AFAIK and is set in law.

[Arkady]

Believe what the US courts have ruled is that the naturalization oath does not require loss of foreign citizenship (as that was not clear). Citizenship by birth has not been an issue AFAIK and is set in law.

Thanks for the correction. I believe that is correct. The oath of allegiance on naturalization created what was earlier regarded as a grey area of conflicting allegiances, if those getting naturalized retained allegiance to a foreign power.

Someone I know well reported that when he went for his naturalization ceremony at a US court house about 15 years ago they were all asked to show their passports and curiously the court officials confiscated the passports of countries like Somalia and Iran that were regarded as hostile to the US and returned the passports of friendly nations. Perhaps the court officials were exercising their own judgment and concluding that it would be easier for the newly minted Somalian or Iranian Americans to focus on their new allegiances without the encumbrances of their old passports, even though could probably just report them as stolen and get new ones right away. Apparently Spanish authorities still "steal" passports in this odd way, even those of fellow EU states but perhaps they are anticipating that Spain will not be able to stay in the EU much longer!

Edited May 31, 2012 by Arkady

[Phimeow]

I won't go into the legal aspects of dual nationality, suffice to say that it is possible. The process can be a bit of a rigmarole but obstacles can be overcome with patience.

Note my own personal experience in getting Thai ID card here (I'm not the original poster) - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/546081-visa-for-aussie-daughter-of-a-thai-citizen/

My circumstance is a little different to yours as I was born in Thailand and you were not. If your father registered your birth at Thai Embassy in the USA, it should be a very easy process.

Good luck!