Music License Sharks At It Again

[dazk]

The wife went to city hall yesterday to sort some business, while she was there she asked about music licence and problem with police scam.

The staff there, although not there department knew all about the police scam, they advised my wife that the police need to have a papers to enter the property to investigate playing music without licence if they do not have such refuse them entry and call the local police as the scamers are usually police from out of the area not on shift trying to make extra money. it was explained it is not a police matter but private matter.

[Sydebolle]

Got creamed by these <deleted> despite holding licenses; the BiB are involved. The CCTV in my place is being uploaded and I'll be in Bangkok to shake the guys. My wife is on a bail bond and the shit goes to court because it is time to stop these wanke_rs. You should have seen their faces on the way out being produced with a print-out of the CCTV pictures and the details of their ID card. The BiB even offered "free protection" in exchange for not grilling his arse. I am one of the few Farangs with a Thai passport; I'll ground this rubbish to a definite end.

My experience is that, despite paying Swica, the only authorized agency on this planet for copyrights, you are getting screwed. Take pictures, give em hell and go all the way. This scam has screwed Pattaya for years - You should have seen these silly faces once I produced print-outs of the CCTV with cristal clear ID card copies.

I am Thai and I will follow through; they will never try to piss into my soup again!

[dazk]

Got creamed by these <deleted> despite holding licenses; the BiB are involved. The CCTV in my place is being uploaded and I'll be in Bangkok to shake the guys. My wife is on a bail bond and the shit goes to court because it is time to stop these wanke_rs. You should have seen their faces on the way out being produced with a print-out of the CCTV pictures and the details of their ID card. The BiB even offered "free protection" in exchange for not grilling his arse. I am one of the few Farangs with a Thai passport; I'll ground this rubbish to a definite end.

My experience is that, despite paying Swica, the only authorized agency on this planet for copyrights, you are getting screwed. Take pictures, give em hell and go all the way. This scam has screwed Pattaya for years - You should have seen these silly faces once I produced print-outs of the CCTV with cristal clear ID card copies.

I am Thai and I will follow through; they will never try to piss into my soup again!

please keep us informed of developments in this case

[BugJackBaron]

Latest victim : Aussie Bar in Rumpoh Complex in Jomtien.

I happened to be there last night and the owner almost went ballistic as the unidentified officers(they woul;d not give their identities)

came, arrested his wife and confiscated his desktop.

According to the owner of another popular place in Jomtien, the way around all this

is to just use the radio.

[Sydebolle]

Got creamed by these <deleted> despite holding licenses; the BiB are involved. The CCTV in my place is being uploaded and I'll be in Bangkok to shake the guys. My wife is on a bail bond and the shit goes to court because it is time to stop these wanke_rs. You should have seen their faces on the way out being produced with a print-out of the CCTV pictures and the details of their ID card. The BiB even offered "free protection" in exchange for not grilling his arse. I am one of the few Farangs with a Thai passport; I'll ground this rubbish to a definite end.

My experience is that, despite paying Swica, the only authorized agency on this planet for copyrights, you are getting screwed. Take pictures, give em hell and go all the way. This scam has screwed Pattaya for years - You should have seen these silly faces once I produced print-outs of the CCTV with cristal clear ID card copies.

I am Thai and I will follow through; they will never try to piss into my soup again!

please keep us informed of developments in this case

Ok, boys, I got the official answer now from the Department of Intelectual Property.

A) the KT Publishing Co. Ltd. is entitled to collect royalties for SIXTY FIVE songs only

the MPC Music Company in Bangkok is the only authorized body by Suica - the world's roof organization on this issue

They can be reached as follows:

Silikorn Santaveesook (Soi)

Executive Assistant

MPC Music Co.Ltd

Tel: 662 641-5211-3 ext 110

Fax: 662 203-1009

Mobile: 086-784-5002

www.mpcmusic.co.th

I, for one, will file an official complaint with the BiB in Bangkok against extortion. Likewise I am getting little Somsak really creamed at the local police station around the corner by my lawyers in Bangkok. I've earmarked a six-digit amount to get rid of this slime and we will see.

Anyone who wants the complete list of music NOT under license of MPC (i.e. those sixtyfive songs) can send an email to [email protected]. The official warning letter by DIP in Thai can be provided as well, the official English translation is attached hereafter. So, get your MPC license in order, note the 65 songs not on the list and then print-out the official DIP-warning and send those corrupt slime bags in brown uniforms to hell.

DIP News

The Department of Intellectual Property received many complaints from the entrepreneurs about the doings of a group of people that claimed a right to take legal action against unlicensed usage of international repertoire in many famous travelling spot, such as, Pattaya, Phuket etc. These people always came in a team not less than 5 persons and claimed that they were authorized from the international music copyright owners and tried to investigate the premises, which were pub / bar that use international music. Their intention was to ask for music copyright royalty fee and in case that the entrepreneur refused to pay, they would take the entrepreneur to the police station and petition for high compromise fee, in which this activity caused so much trouble to entrepreneurs.

The DIP would like to declare to the entrepreneurs to be aware of this case and inquire the entrepreneur to prepare as the following:

1. Ask for an evidence that whether these persons had already file a complaint to the police or not, and what charge it is.
   
2. Ask for evidence that the person who files charge is the duly authorized person by checking that whether the Power of Attorney (POA) allows them to file charge and verify that whether the POA is expired. In case that it is the sub-authorization, check that the authorization has a complete flow (all the persons in the sub-authorization are duly authorized.) And what song that the right indicates.
   
3. Ask for a certain name of song and music label that is infringing the copyright.
   
4. There must be a police officer taking part in the apprehension and accusation.
   
5. Record the sound, motion picture and action of the claimant, the person that takes part in the apprehension and also the officials.
   

In case that there are no such aforementioned evidence, Please file charge to the local police officers to validate the claimant evidence. Please also examine the information on royalty fee collection notification declared by the Central Committee on Price and Service in website www.ipthailand.go.th before making any compromise with the claimant.

The information of the collecting management organization who manages the international repertoires that registered with the Central Committee on Price and Service as of March 2012 are 4 organizations as the following:

1. MPC Music Co., Ltd.: 800,000 repertoires
   
2. RKT Publishing Co., Ltd.: 106 repertoires
   
3. IP Management Co., Ltd.: 58 repertoires
   
4. KT Publishing Co., Ltd.: 10 repertoires
   

In case that the entrepreneur wish to use international repertoire in their course of business and desire to apply for licence for legal usage of international music in order not to infringing the copyright and prevent yourself from the apprehension in such case, please contact the Copyright Office, call 02-547-4633 and 02-547-4634

[ramidin]

This company, K T Publishing Co. Ltd is a complete fraud. They are working with licencing officials for kick backs from the money they extort from the bars.

They make all sorts of wild claims about who they represent, and threaten massive fines and years in jail, but it is 90% bluff and 10% protection from the BIBs they work with.

On Sunday a squad of them when into a number of bars in Jomtien, and started lifting computers and music players from a number of bars.

in one bar, the owner pointed out they had an international music licence, from a reputable company that covers Sony, Warner and EMI music, among hundreds of others.

Said owner asks to see their authority documents - refused.

BIB turns up and asked to show his ID - refused.

Owner knows the score, and demands them to produce the documents, or leave - refused.

Owner requested to go to police station - refuses, and cop gets heavy.

Owner pulls out phone camera and starts videoing the proceedings, and all hell breaks loose, with all sorts of threats of horrible consequences.

Owner decides to go to police station, and immediately pulls out document from licence company that explains:

1. If the people fail to produce authority documents when asked, it is a breach of the Copyright Act, as bona fide inspections can only be undertaken by authorised representatives,

2. The company claiming copyright has to identify exactly which songs are in use over which they hold copyright, including the name of the artist, name of song, publisher and year of release,

3. Representatives of the company must furnish ID and their authority,

4. If arrested, under no circumstances sign any documents,

5. Make no admissions,

6. Ask the police for bail ( which will be less than they will try to extort you for),

7. In the arrest report, ask the Company to specify each and every track over which they claim copyright and they claim is in your possession.

The owner then tells police he wants to make a report against the company for trespassing on his property without showing ID, fraudulently claiming rights to music tracks licenced by his licencing company, and extortion.

Short conversation between inspector and company rep and owner told he can leave.

It takes big <deleted>, but if you press the issue about which tracks they claim copyright over, then they have to put up or shut up, but you must be confident that you have only music that falls within your licence.

[Sydebolle]

This is the reply from the official MPC set-up in Bangkok on the subject, which they sent to my wife. We've given them to OK to pursue the matter through DIP without any hope of any outcome though. I'll rattle the cage next week with the lawyer as we're putting a complaint for extortion in against K.T. Publishing and its staff. The complaint will be filed in Bangkok rather than corruption city; keep the momentum up!

Edited June 30, 2012 by Phil Conners
: A forwarded email containing phone numbers, email addresses and possible libelous content, has been deleted.

[ramidin]

If anybody has been hit by this particular company, or know any bar that has either in Pattaya or Jomtien, please PM me.

Another bar was hit today, but the owner would not give in, and after a call to a BIB friend in BKK, all of a sudden there was no need to pay any fine, and negotations for compensation due to the unlawful raid on the bar started.

We were hit last Sunday, and have involved the Bangkok Crime Suppression Police, and we are prosecuting for trespass, fraud, extortion and unlawful arrest.

This mob try not to give the company details out, and try not to let anyone get copies of their ID cards, but I have them already, as well as copies of some of the police reports.

We have confirmed :

1. You must ask them to show ID and their authority papers, and if they dont it is trespass (Copyright Act BE 2537 s. 68),

2. Do not agree to accompany them to the police station, force them in front of witnesses to say you are being arrested,

3. Force them to say which song they say you are playing illegally that they have copyright over,

4. Don't agree to sign anything,

5. Ask them to show the written complaint to the police,

6. If possible, CCTV is great, but hand held phone will do to capture video.

Dongtan Police as of today are up to their necks in s%&t about this case, as we have contacted IP Thailand and lodged a formal complaint, lodged a formal complaint with police and are now filing a criminal prosecution for trespass, fraud, extortion and unlawful arrest - this can be done without the police!

We are planning to try to get as many people who have been scammed together as possible to all make reports at the same time in either Jomtien or Pattaya.

This mob have no authority whatsoever to remove computers from premises, they are all private company employees, and their actions are completely illegal.

We asked Dongtan police for a copy of the arrest report, which has miraculously disappeared, as the 'police' that arrive with this mob may not even be a policeman, hence he does not show his ID card. When you ask him to identify himself, he just says "i wear police shirt so I police and have power'. He cant sign any police report as that would then identify him.

If all the owners work together, we can get rid of this crap.

[PoodMaiDai]

ipod license is not an issue, using ipod to play music in public is no different to playing a cd or vcd.

iTunes (included in new ipods, ipads, and iphones) has streaming radio with 100s if not 1000s of stations, which you can play from next door with no wires if you set it up correctly.

My point was, you can set it up so there is nothing for them to take other than speakers that are mounted into your ceiling or wall. At the very least, they will not be taking your music equipment.

[PoodMaiDai]

When you ask him to identify himself, he just says "i wear police shirt so I police and have power'. He cant sign any police report as that would then identify him.

Why do you guys put up with this, honestly?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you all know these guys are fake, why do you tolerate it? Push them right back and force them off your property.

There is a guy who owns a bar on walking street who was always getting hassled by the real police, hand out after hand out. He now pays off duty Thai marines to be his security and stand at the door. The local police have not entered the bar once since. The military trumps local law enforcement, so maybe you should do the same if you have it in the budget.

[dazk]

When you ask him to identify himself, he just says "i wear police shirt so I police and have power'. He cant sign any police report as that would then identify him.

Why do you guys put up with this, honestly?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you all know these guys are fake, why do you tolerate it? Push them right back and force them off your property.

There is a guy who owns a bar on walking street who was always getting hassled by the real police, hand out after hand out. He now pays off duty Thai marines to be his security and stand at the door. The local police have not entered the bar once since. The military trumps local law enforcement, so maybe you should do the same if you have it in the budget.

all well a good you saying that but when faced with the BIB would you push them out the door

[siam cbr]

I'm glad that I've the common sense to realize that Thailand is for having fun in, and that's it.

No businesses, no assets I'd cry over.

Hopefully any farang business owners who are getting done by corrupt locals like this licensing scam, will learn to simply leave Thailand for the Thais, and to enjoy their time here without putting oneself in such a position.

[siam cbr]

Why do you guys put up with this, honestly?

Yup.

There is a guy who owns a bar on walking street who was always getting hassled by the real police, hand out after hand out. He now pays off duty Thai marines to be his security and stand at the door. The local police have not entered the bar once since. The military trumps local law enforcement, so maybe you should do the same if you have it in the budget.

Sounds like a nice, relaxing, peaceful life that.

It's time to tape a CCTV camera to your forehead round this place nowadays.

Edited June 30, 2012 by siam cbr

[Bagwan]

so if you buy a licence from one of the companies thats got say 800,000 songs copyrighted what happens if you play a song not covered by them.

the system should be like the uk one prs licence does it all, but then this is thailand that would be too simple and no one could make a baht on the side.

was thinking of music for our place i pod behind the bar but now no way, maybe just buy a radio, but do you need a licence for that ?

Why not just use the TV? sophon or true both have music channels

Also, i am not 100% but it think playing youtube is NOT in any breach, just connect notebook to loud speakers

really want to play our own choice of music suited to our customer base.

That might well be a first in Pattaya. i always assumed that the music was chosen by, and for the benefit of, the ladies working in the bar.

i am beginning to understand the benefits of buying beer from a 7/11, taking your life into your hands by crossing Beach road, and sitting on the sea wall to drink it. No deafening cacophany from TV and DVD's, considerable savings on the price you pay for the beer, a gentle breeze but still the make believe stories from temporary companions.

[dazk]

so if you buy a licence from one of the companies thats got say 800,000 songs copyrighted what happens if you play a song not covered by them.

the system should be like the uk one prs licence does it all, but then this is thailand that would be too simple and no one could make a baht on the side.

was thinking of music for our place i pod behind the bar but now no way, maybe just buy a radio, but do you need a licence for that ?

Why not just use the TV? sophon or true both have music channels

Also, i am not 100% but it think playing youtube is NOT in any breach, just connect notebook to loud speakers

really want to play our own choice of music suited to our customer base.

That might well be a first in Pattaya. i always assumed that the music was chosen by, and for the benefit of, the ladies working in the bar.

i am beginning to understand the benefits of buying beer from a 7/11, taking your life into your hands by crossing Beach road, and sitting on the sea wall to drink it. No deafening cacophany from TV and DVD's, considerable savings on the price you pay for the beer, a gentle breeze but still the make believe stories from temporary companions.

we don't have ladies as we are a restaurant, we do like to play good music at a low level not dance or thia or any other racket no tv either all them screeching thai soaps not good for the digestion

[Pattaya46]

The staff there, although not there department knew all about the police scam, they advised my wife that the police need to have a papers to enter the property to investigate playing music without licence if they do not have such refuse them entry and call the local police as the scamers are usually police from out of the area not on shift trying to make extra money. it was explained it is not a police matter but private matter.

Hi,

I was about to reply when I read that. That is exactly what a manager from a bar in WS area reported some weeks ago. He knows rules and refused them to access their music computer. As they insisted he called the local police. BK Police (or probably false policemen?) left without waiting their local collegues...

Sometime corruption continues just because victims don't know their rights.

[lor]

My Bar, Apple Bar on Soi Chaiyaphuk, Jomtien was hit last night as well.

I was not there so could not throw them out. My wife argued that we had done no wrong and had all the valid licenses from MPC but they just said they were no good and dragged her to the police station. She was about to be thrown in the cells when she agreed to pay 50,000 baht!

They even came back to the bar today! Trying to get her to pay for a license from their company (something like KR). I am in England but spoke to her on the phone as he was there. He lied to her and told her his companies license enabled her to play any music from any group. I asked how he could say that and what groups did his company represent. I also got her to show him the license from MPC which he just shoved away and said "No Good!" When I got angry and started calling him a liar he left saying he would be back!

These con artists are very agressive and most people, like my wife, are too scared to argue. Even now my wife blames me for having no good license because this rip off merchant told her it was no good! Strange how they always come when the MPC offices are closed and you cannot call them for help.

Chris

[dazk]

they are at it again came to our soi last nite 2 men 1 lady casual dress 1 marine police they where driving a new vigo with chang mia plates.

we where closed as i normal on mondays i was sitting outside having a beer they went to the place over the road first then before i knew what was happening the 2 men pushed past me and went inside followed by the police man i then stopped the lady from coming inside i shut and locked the door i told the wife tell them out she told them i also told then out we forced them out of the place and locked the door.

my wife then went outside to talk to them they asked for licences music, drink and food we dont have music licence they took the food and drink licence and said they take away to get copy my wife said she go with them so of she went but they took her to jomtien police station where they made her buy a music licence before they let her out

my wife said they had many bar owners in the police station and that the people had come from bangkok, she is now going to get in touch with high ranking police friend of family in bangkok to get money back from these extortion artists

the company is called IMC inter music copyright

[dazk]

update

the wife spoke to the DIP (Department of intellectual property) today they said that the government is aware of this problem and are trying to fix it, she needs to go to the police and report this crime and if another company comes, and this is likely, she should let them know she has been to the police and show them the papers the DIP will help us prosecute the company from last nite but we have to bear the cost of our lawyer so that is out of the question .

waiting for a second visit now

[PoodMaiDai]

When you ask him to identify himself, he just says "i wear police shirt so I police and have power'. He cant sign any police report as that would then identify him.

Why do you guys put up with this, honestly?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you all know these guys are fake, why do you tolerate it? Push them right back and force them off your property.

There is a guy who owns a bar on walking street who was always getting hassled by the real police, hand out after hand out. He now pays off duty Thai marines to be his security and stand at the door. The local police have not entered the bar once since. The military trumps local law enforcement, so maybe you should do the same if you have it in the budget.

all well a good you saying that but when faced with the BIB would you push them out the door

The real BIB vs a scam group are two different things. Even then, if you have the proper license, tell them to sod off.

Putting up with the scammers is what I'm taking about. You know it's a scam, so why do any of you play along? Do you all honestly live in so much fear that you can't tell the scammers to get lost and take them off your property?

[Phatcharanan]

From what I'm reading guys are returning to Spain and Greece in their droves already.

LOL! Which cartoon books are you reading?

[dazk]

When you ask him to identify himself, he just says "i wear police shirt so I police and have power'. He cant sign any police report as that would then identify him.

Why do you guys put up with this, honestly?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you all know these guys are fake, why do you tolerate it? Push them right back and force them off your property.

There is a guy who owns a bar on walking street who was always getting hassled by the real police, hand out after hand out. He now pays off duty Thai marines to be his security and stand at the door. The local police have not entered the bar once since. The military trumps local law enforcement, so maybe you should do the same if you have it in the budget.

all well a good you saying that but when faced with the BIB would you push them out the door

The real BIB vs a scam group are two different things. Even then, if you have the proper license, tell them to sod off.

Putting up with the scammers is what I'm taking about. You know it's a scam, so why do any of you play along? Do you all honestly live in so much fear that you can't tell the scammers to get lost and take them off your property?

they come heavy handed swarm the place, told the wife they where from city hall checking beer licence food licence not just music they kind of stayed of music, i have no rights to really interfer and they know and tell me that threaten me with police and immigration they are proffesional and they have adapted there scam to make you think its about all licences i told the wife be carefull she said its ok there are from city hall just check licence its not until they get you to the police station they then get on about the music licence basically held her hostage until she paid them.

what gets to me is that the bib are in on this and the government department for copyright tell you to report this CRIME to the bib and that the goverment are aware of this problem what chance do we stand and what chance do i stand i dont want trouble so dont go stirring the hornets nest.

[dazk]

I was in the Rompho complex last night and was talking to a Thai bar owner I know very well there.

She got done last week and the Thai owned bar opposite got done the week before.

At least they're not picking on Farangs!!

So any updates on the court case? I open a bar in the Rompho Complex next month and I'd be interested to know what the current state of play is...

Tom.

no they pick on thai because thai are scared of uniform and people with badges

[Tolley]

If you are going to open any business in Thailand it is essential to have the phone numbers of some influential Thais so that when these scammers come along you can make your phone call and they will be told to p*ss off by your Thai puu yai.

Without some influence in Thailand you are a sitting duck for any scammer to come along and take you for whatever they can.

[dazk]

Yinglucks first year mission statment

Item No. 3 fight corruption

F^&king joker

Edited August 14, 2012 by dazk

[Tolley]

If you are going to open any business in Thailand it is essential to have the phone numbers of some influential Thais so that when these scammers come along you can make your phone call and they will be told to p*ss off by your Thai puu yai.

Without some influence in Thailand you are a sitting duck for any scammer to come along and take you for whatever they can.

Yep - Hi-So Thai's just love being phoned up by drunk farangs at 1am jibbering on about music police arresting their girlfiends...

Just shows how little you know about how things work here.

[dazk]

On the thai national news this morning there was a item about the music licence scam

Basically the thai government recognises there is a problem and to solve it they are saying they will pass a new law that to issue music licences you need to hold the rights to at least 50,000 songs

sure this will take forever to put into law and will never work because the bib who enforce the law are all a bunch of criminals anyway and the little guys like me and my wife don't stand a chance against them and there crocked ways

[JusticeFT96]

If you want to use youtube just create your own playlist on there, add songs that you want and then at the end of each song it should change over to the next automatically.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Rimmer
Off topic question removed

[dazk]

If you want to use youtube just create your own playlist on there, add songs that you want and then at the end of each song it should change over to the next automatically.

and you think that would stop them, we where not even playing music just had the equipment in the bar

[sotsira]

Found out recently from a friend that lives in one of the Viewtalay buildings Jomtien,

that the music scamming mob were hitting on all the ground floor restaurants and businesses

that were playing music.

They were demanding 50k baht on the spot fines and now not one of them plays any music whatsoever.

They are going to extremes to even scam condo businesses!